Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often

[peteo48]

I must admit I was impressed with my Pal's Fiesta (he is less impressed with the TPMS).

I know most of these work OK but I would put the question - what is an acceptable level of reliability for these systems? Let's, for the sake of argument, say that 90% of these systems work. I regard that as unacceptable. Try googling clutch failure on nearly new Hondas and you will get virtually no responses. Why, because the clutches are fit for purpose. Google Deflation Warning System or TPMS and you find a tsunami of negative stories and a whole industry developing around methods of defeating or disabling these systems.

They are unreliable period and you have to ask why a legal requirement was put in place before a robust technology was available. We got on without these things until 2014 for heavens sake. Why do we have to put up with them now and the inability of the manufacturers to come up with solutions when they fail?

[andruec]

I still suspect a fault. Whilst I tend to bimble along motorways at 60mph I have driven several hundred miles at that speed and had no false alarms. I have also on occasion driven quite a long way (about 60 miles) at around 80mph and not had any false alarms.

Whether that qualifies as 'driving at high speed' I don't know.

[peteo48]

There's definitely a fault.

But, unfortunately, I can find no evidence of any dealer fixing the problem. I'll see how my dealer gets on. I am not optimistic hence my desire to disable the system.

[peteo48]

http://www.mattcastruccihonda.com/blog/how-to-reset-the-tpms-light-in-your-honda/

This kind of proves my point. A Honda dealer in Ohio admitting that this is "an annoyingly common issue for Honda owners."

This is global - it's not just me!

[ColinS]

They are unreliable period ...

I beg to differ but I have done over 30,000 in mine now, and other that having to re-calibrate it two or three times in the week after is was new and again two or three times in the week after I had the front tyres changed, I have had no issues whatsoever.

If mine can be like that, then they all can.  If yours is not, then you have a fault and should take it back to the dealers under warranty.

[peteo48]

They are unreliable period ...

I beg to differ but I have done over 30,000 in mine now, and other that having to re-calibrate it two or three times in the week after is was new and again two or three times in the week after I had the front tyres changed, I have had no issues whatsoever.

If mine can be like that, then they all can.  If yours is not, then you have a fault and should take it back to the dealers under warranty.

Which is what I'm going to do.

But there is little or no chance that they will identify a cure. I've researched this to some extent and there is no evidence of a fix anywhere. Once you've got this problem you have it for the duration of your ownership of the car.

On reliability you may well have a system that works. I don't and the evidence both anecdotal and on the internet suggests that this is a common problem. If it is a common problem then it is legitimate to say that the system is not fit for purpose. The fact that a majority of owners don't experience the problem is no evidence of reliability if a significant number of people have an issue. For me, to be reliable, a system should have a small failure rate, almost unmeasurable.

[peteo48]

https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf

Another damning report about these systems.

[Jocko]

That is a damming indictment of TPMS but in the other direction from the issue you are experiencing. These test show TPMS not working when you get a flat. Just glad my car is too old to require TPMS.

[Skyrider]

https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf

Another damning report about these systems.

You seem to be desperate to convince us there is a huge problem when you are the only one here with it.

[peteo48]

So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?

Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?

And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.

I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.

[guest4871]

So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?

Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?

And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.

I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.

I have some sympathy with your view. This type of system should never fail or give a false reading.

It is after all a safety device which should/ must be 101% reliable and 100% idiot proof.

[culzean]

https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf

Another damning report about these systems.

You seem to be desperate to convince us there is a huge problem when you are the only one here with it.

Maybe they changed something on the MK3 but the system on my Civic and her indoors MK2 work well, they tell you when tyres have been replaced and I have had slow punctures on the civic which it has picked up before 25psi - and no false alarms.  On the Civic the TPMS tells me when I have changed from winters to summers or the other way around, but checking the speed on satnav it is hard to see any difference between satnav and speedo between the two sets of tyres.  The Jazz does not seem to notice change from summers to winters (maybe tyre diameters are exactly the same) but will alarm with new tyres.

There is a new thing on ABS TPMS called spectrum analysis which is supposed to alert the system when all tyres are under-inflated and I think it checks for any minute variation in the arrival of ABS pulses which can happen when tyres are low on pressure - almost like the tyre is not rotating smoothly.  Maybe the system is getting too clever and more prone to false alarms from road surface imperfections.

[peteo48]

So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?

Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?

And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.

I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.

I have some sympathy with your view. This type of system should never fail or give a false reading.

It is after all a safety device which should/ must be 101% reliable and 100% idiot proof.

I see some relevance to the future adoption of autonomous vehicles. If a simple system like this is problematic then what hope is there for more complex systems?

Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.

[ColinB]

Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.

This is probably an unhelpfully late comment, but why not try to get it to the dealer before recalibrating, so he can actually check for himself the tyre pressures are OK whilst the warning is displayed ?

Also I believe the TPMS system must be functioning in order to pass an MOT. So if the dealer says “no fault found”, ask him if it would pass an MOT in that condition. If he’s doubtful about that then you would be justified in having a conversation about rejection (if you so wish) because the car is clearly not of the expected quality.

[peteo48]

Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.

This is probably an unhelpfully late comment, but why not try to get it to the dealer before recalibrating, so he can actually check for himself the tyre pressures are OK whilst the warning is displayed ?

Also I believe the TPMS system must be functioning in order to pass an MOT. So if the dealer says “no fault found”, ask him if it would pass an MOT in that condition. If he’s doubtful about that then you would be justified in having a conversation about rejection (if you so wish) because the car is clearly not of the expected quality.

Excellent point Colin. Having recalibrated it I did think (too late) that I should have left the warning light on (helpfully by toggling one of the "I" buttons on the steering wheel you can get rid of the big tyre and just have a little one in the left hand dial). I'll discuss it on the phone and if they advise me to bring it in when the light is on then that's what I'll do. I know how to get it to play up - quick burst on the motorway and on it comes!