Mk4 issues

[Lord Voltermore]

I think I have said before. If I find the brake lights of the car in front are  dazzling me, due to darkness etc, I will stop using brake hold so I dont inflict the same on the driver behind.   

If it's dark, you should make yourself less visible? Very brave.

Eh?  If there is nothing behind me I wont be dazzling its driver so will probably still have my brake hold on and the next driver to arrive  will see my bright brake lights. Or if its particularly dangerous, such as an unexpected stop on a motorway, I would put my hazard lights on as an extra warning. Once  another car has stopped behind me  me I can switch off hazard lights and decide whether continuing to use brake hold in that light etc  will dazzle other drivers. If the traffic queue  is frequently stopping and starting, brake lights will often be displayed anyway.

[Kremmen]

I've got away with it for over 50 years

[aphybrid]

Previous quote - "I can't speak for the Jazz, but every car I have owned with 'brake hold', including eHev HR-V & CR-V the brake hold is a pointless gizmo. it will release automatically after a few minutes. If you happen to be pointing uphill it can be very embarrassing as you roll back into the car behind you!!  Unless you are very quick on the foot brake."

When stopping, ie coming to rest fully firm application of the footbrake applies brake hold, if not applied firmly brake hold does not apply.

Previous quote re leaving car with brake hold applied - the car stays stationary brake hold does not release - tried it on my sloping driveway.

If reversing after brake hold has been applied it will release as normal, BUT BEWARE brake hold does apply when reversing after a release like that.

[ColinS]

Brake hold on the HR-V (facelift model) works flawlessly. It disengages after about 10 minutes, at which time it automatically engages the parking brake.  So no dramas.

[coldstart]

Anybody else notice that we seem to have lost the topic starter @Kenneve over all the brake hold/lights bickering?

[Kenneve]

Anybody else notice that we seem to have lost the topic starter @Kenneve over all the brake hold/lights bickering?

Yes, I think only one member has attempted to answer the question re whether the EV motor is trying to move the car, when in D or B mode, with the handbrake on?
I usually have the handbrake set to auto release, for moving off.

I know with a conventional auto gearbox, the engine WILL be trying to move the car when in gear with the handbrake on, but still not sure about EV.

And re reversing with the mirrors, I’ve tried moving them to different positions, but still think they need to be larger, just my opinion!

[aphybrid]

Anybody else notice that we seem to have lost the topic starter @Kenneve over all the brake hold/lights bickering?

this is normal for a lot of topics.............age related?

[5thcivic]

Why on earth would you design to waste battery running an electric motor with the handbrake on? The motor has instant torque as soon as you touch the pedal to apply voltage and current (and disengage the brake if so selected). Surely the only "clutch" is to add the petrol engine to the electric motor as required mostly at high speed or perhaps quick acceleration?

[Lord Voltermore]

The original post raised two issues  ,which increases the chances of drifting off topic somewhat.

Honda make no warning about preventing possible wear and tear when stopped in P or B.   Unlike a conventional hydraulic torque converter  where the fluid may still be churning away and subject to degradation when the car is restrained on its brakes or  by its dead weight  . Or a manual car held on a hill on its clutch.

I dont know for sure but get the impression the Jazz is smart enough to know when its handbrake/brake hold/ hill start assist is holding the car . I think its power saving technology prevents any unnecessary power going to the electric drive . Until  you touch the throttle, even slightly ,to indicate  you want the car to move off.  when the brakes are released I think enough power goes to the electric drive to allow the car to creep without using the throttle. ( A useful feature for manoeuvring) Sometimes hill start assist will hold the car and not release brakes it until you are using enough throttle  that the electric drive motor is able to take over the task of holding the car on a hill without rolling back.

[davejazz]

On a steep uphill, (unless it’s the side of a mountain), it’s a simple matter to swivel from the brake pedal to the accelerator, without the car rolling backwards. In the quarter second that takes, technically you may lose 2 inches, when the car re adjusts on its suspension,  but I don’t think the driver behind you will notice that!

[coldstart]

Unlike ICEs, electric motors have their maximum torque from zero revs.
Unfortunately they can easily overheat in this state (which may be the cause of the initial question).

That's probably why Honda tells us to apply the breaks to hold the car so the power can be cut.
Unlike ICEs which need certain revs to merely idle an electric motor has no such needs and hence doesn't need power while the car is standing still.

I completely agree with @davejazz that the moment from switching the foot from brake to accelerator doesn't count.

Long story short: I think that Honda has thought about that (after all it would be pointless to waste energy while the brakes are applied, wouldn't it?)

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

I think as LV and coldstart have said the power control is very smart and looking at data thousands of times a second . Our human best response is 23 milliseconds so when we think its an instant reaction in technology time thats a long time !

[Nicksey]

On a steep uphill, (unless it’s the side of a mountain), it’s a simple matter to swivel from the brake pedal to the accelerator, without the car rolling backwards. In the quarter second that takes, technically you may lose 2 inches, when the car re adjusts on its suspension,  but I don’t think the driver behind you will notice that!

In my previous Renaults, they all came with 'hill assist'. Surely, Honda have a similar feature built in. I have never experienced any issues with the Jazz when starting on a hill. Stop with foot brake, lift hand brake button, off the foot brake... foot on accelerator, press hand brake button down and smoothly accelerate away, with no fall back between the operation.

[Lord Voltermore]

Yes  the Mk4 jazz has Hill start assist.  You are not always aware when it has actually assisted you.

Here is the Honda information centre explanation of the benefits .

https://www.hondainfocenter.com/Shared-Technologies/Chassis/Hill-Start-Assist-All/

 I think  even if   you braked to a stop on a hill ,then either apply the handbrake manually  , or the footbrake remains applied for up to 10 minutes after you come off the brake pedal because you are using 'brake hold' , Hill start assist will still prevent the car rolling  when you auto release  the handbrake/ brakes by using some  throttle.

It works both facing uphill and downhill.   But while it works a treat  for preventing you rolling back on  an uphill start you need to be cautious  when facing downhill. The car wont be released and roll until you use some throttle  but when you do  it may accelerate downhill faster than you initially expected from the small amount of throttle. 

[Kenneve]

Well, it looks like I’ve answered my own question, re power with the brakes on.
Today I did a few miles and kept my eye on the power distribution feature, (traffic permitting).

I  can now confirm that, when stationary with the footbrake or the handbrake applied, NO power is applied to the wheels, by the EV motor.

The instant the accelerator is touched, in my case the handbrake releases automatically and power is applied to the wheels by the EV motor, sufficient to allow the car to creep forwards.

It’s also interesting see at what stages, charging occurs, far more frequently than I thought