Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 24525 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #720 on: February 05, 2018, 01:31:56 PM »
On costs I think it is still the case that you need to do a lot of miles to recoup the price premium. They make a great deal of sense for somebody who does a daily commute by car if it's an appreciable distance.

Where I started to cool on EVs was when I looked at my annual mileage of 3,000 (ish). This costs me around 30 per month along with 10 Road Tax. Then there is the range thing and this is where it gets quite frustrating. 95% of my journeys are 10 miles or less. I'd probably only need to charge up once a week. The problem comes with a few journeys that are virtually undoable in an EV with limited range - there are no chargers on the way. There are another couple of trips that are doable but squeaky bum time in terms of range.

Had a good long think and this is what would tempt me - 200 miles range at 70 mph on a wet motorway on a cold day with climate control set to 21 degrees and a purchase price - new - of no more than 15,000. We will get there but, until we do, I'm out.

If I had 2 cars - I'd have an older EV in a heartbeat as one of the two but I am the only driver in our household.

Don't forget the battery lease charge - an extra 70+ a month to add to running costs.  The thing about BEV is they are good if you do a lot of regular short to medium local mileage / commuting - but you have to do a few miles to get the premium price / high depreciation and battery lease cost back. Will be interesting to see what happens if EV incentives are removed by government in UK - which may be as early as March this year.

Sales of EV may be up, but from a very low base, they have been available for about 8 years now and plug-in hybrids make up a good proportion of sales (mainly due to benefit in kind tax relief - which is what skewed diesel sales for a while).  As we know mot plug in hybrids like Mitsubishi Outlander  are a bit pants for business use as they get 15 to 20 miles on full battery and then 25 to 30 mpg and have to lug the 500Kg battery around (same as 6 or 7 passengers) even though it is empty (funny thing about batteries they don't get lighter as they discharge).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #721 on: February 05, 2018, 01:37:42 PM »
200 miles range at 70 mph on a wet motorway on a cold day with climate control set to 21 degrees and a purchase price - new - of no more than 15,000.
That would be a definite for me. No questions asked. They reckon 2 years to reach that price point, and range is not that far away even now. The next increase in battery size should see that. That will happen as the battery prices continue to fall. It is only the fact they try and keep the price down by fitting small batteries that limits the range to the extent they do.
Regarding leasing a battery. Why anyone would be daft enough to do that is beyond me. The new Leaf comes "battery bought". I think only Renault lease the batteries now. That was an early years thing.

https://www.gogreenautos.co.uk/buyers-guide/battery-lease-explained

TG

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #722 on: February 05, 2018, 01:47:10 PM »
10000 miles or less p.a. makes no sense in an EV, the energy and CO2 used to build the thing will exceed any savings in use.  Now if they would park 4 of them on every street and we all subscribed to the service, they could send them off for recycling/replacement at 4 or 5 years old and 100k+ miles. I'm quite used to Enterprise dropping cars off the day before I need them but would prefer the convenience of self service. Mind you, I'd do more Uber in London.
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TG

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #723 on: February 05, 2018, 02:16:00 PM »
Jocko is right about the battery lease thing - it's becoming old hat although you do need to check the lease thing if you are buying second hand. Dealers not that great at specifying in their adverts. Some don't even specify if, in the case of a Leaf, it is 24 or 30 kwh - a crucial difference because the 30 kwh gives another 25 miles of range and that can be crucial for some customers.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #724 on: February 06, 2018, 04:07:11 PM »
Buying an electric car now is like buying a petrol car in 1910. Within the next 10-15 years there will be HUGE advances in battery technology and efficiency making today's offerings look teh rubbish they are.

NEVER ever be a among the first users of new technology... See mobile phones of 20 years ago, and modern intelligent TVs versus offerings of 1999. See also the humble home vacuum..

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #725 on: February 06, 2018, 05:13:27 PM »
Definitely penalties involved in being an early adopter.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #726 on: February 07, 2018, 09:38:57 AM »
So we now have an electric car in space.



Elon Musk's Falcon Heavy rocket was a huge success and launched his Tesla Roadster into space. Say what you like about the man, he is a showman. P. T. Barnum for the 21st century. Always thought Musk was an American until now. He is actually South African, born and raised in Pretoria.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/elon-musks-spacex-falcon-heavy-incredible-footage-shows-rocket-soar-past-earth-a3759976.html

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #727 on: February 07, 2018, 09:42:44 AM »
Pity Musks rockets are no good for their main job of launching ultra-expensive satellites.  The Russians still seem to build the best rockets (and most effective surface to air missiles unfortunately).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #728 on: February 07, 2018, 09:57:27 AM »
Pity Musks rockets are no good for their main job of launching ultra-expensive satellites.
Where did you get that idea from? Was it the Daily Mail? This was their first launch of an experimental rocket. NASA would have used a concrete block as an expendable payload simulator. He used an old Tesla Roadster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42969020
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:00:47 AM by Jocko »

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #729 on: February 07, 2018, 10:24:58 AM »
Pity Musks rockets are no good for their main job of launching ultra-expensive satellites.
Where did you get that idea from? Was it the Daily Mail? This was their first launch of an experimental rocket. NASA would have used a concrete block as an expendable payload simulator. He used an old Tesla Roadster.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-42969020

Not more space junk.....


http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/09/technology/spacex-zuma-spacecraft-lost/index.html

Value of Zuma spy satellite is US$Billions,  hope his insurance is up to date............... and its not the first failure. 

India seems to be doing very well with successful launches.

The cost of failure for a private company can be crippling, and with Tesla not doing well either - chapter 11 here we come.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:27:43 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #730 on: February 07, 2018, 10:29:28 AM »
And has nobody else lost any satellites, over the years?

http://spacenews.com/soyuz-satellites-feared-lost-in-launch-failure/

richardfrost

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #731 on: February 08, 2018, 02:15:04 PM »
Not more space junk.....

Not really, will be on it's way to the asteroid belt soon, so won't be cluttering up the space around Earth for too much longer.

I don't see how anyone can fail to find the technology demonstrated in the launch this week as anything but inspirational. Seeing the two side boosters landing side by side in almost perfect synchronisation was just phenomenal.

And now you can follow your favourite electric space car live... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3niFzo5VLI

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #732 on: February 08, 2018, 02:52:14 PM »
Where  does the car charge up?   Perhaps there will be even more junk put into space with a system of charging points all the way????? Flippancy will get me nowhere. At least the satellite owners didn't lose any money.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #733 on: February 10, 2018, 04:04:23 PM »
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-model-3-production-problems-elon-musk-feb-2018/

Tesla continues to burn money faster than its Spacex heavy lifter burns kerosene.....

Quote from above article ...  "For now, though, it's all Model 3. Because it turns out car production isn't rocket science. It's much harder".

Here is an interesting comparison of Apollo Saturn V rocket and Falcon Heavy – And the Saturn 5 was built with slide rules at a time when silicon valley did not exist.  https://newatlas.com/falcon-heavy-saturn-v/53090/

The amazing Voyager 1 and 2 launched 40 years ago keep up their amazing journey. https://newatlas.com/voyager-1-thrusters-fired/52452/

Compilation of Spacex failures to date  https://newatlas.com/spacex-blooper-video/51356/
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 04:12:55 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #734 on: February 10, 2018, 04:32:25 PM »
This is a lot more interesting than whether rockets produced by a government are batter than rockets produced by a commercial company.

https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-autopilot-why-crash-radar/?mbid=BottomRelatedStories

So it is not just Teslas that crash into stationary objects. Any car with Adaptive Cruise Control can!

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