Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 694020 times)

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #555 on: November 23, 2017, 05:02:45 PM »
As I said elsewhere, ninth, out of the top ten CO2 emitters in Scotland, is the Biomass Power plant here in Fife. That's a wood burning stove, isn't it?

Yes it sure is,  but touted as sustainable by greens because new growth of wood supposed to gobble up the carbon released when you burn the wood,  but when wood chips are sourced from Canada or elsewhere and transported on oil burning lorries to ports, then loaded onto oil powered ships and transported across thousands of miles of ocean to be loaded onto yet more lorries the theory begins to look a bit thin......... Oh well back to the drawing board.....  (probably takes as much energy to transport the stuff as you get back,  but it looks good to politicians who crow about such stuff but understand jack sh!te about most things).

Problem is us humans are energy hungry creatures,  its just our nature.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #556 on: November 23, 2017, 05:46:20 PM »
The biomass burnt here in Fife comes from 90% recovered timber, diverted from landfill, and the virgin timber is chipped locally from logs supplied from a number of Forestry Commission Scotland sustainable managed forests.
http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/429434/rwe-generation-se/fuels/location-overview/uk/markinch-chp-biomass-plant/

madasafish

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1953
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 1.4 ES CVT -2012
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #557 on: November 23, 2017, 07:01:55 PM »
If politicians were serious about man made climate change, they would ban flying for holidays..

guest4871

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #558 on: November 23, 2017, 07:24:57 PM »

Yes it sure is,  but touted as sustainable by greens because new growth of wood supposed to gobble up the carbon released when you burn the wood,  but when wood chips are sourced from Canada or elsewhere and transported on oil burning lorries to ports, then loaded onto oil powered ships and transported across thousands of miles of ocean to be loaded onto yet more lorries the theory begins to look a bit thin......... Oh well back to the drawing board.....  (probably takes as much energy to transport the stuff as you get back,  but it looks good to politicians who crow about such stuff but understand jack sh!te about most things).


Yes, it's a bit like washing food packaging (in hot water) before you put it in the recycling bin.......... Where's the benefit it that?

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #559 on: November 24, 2017, 01:53:22 PM »
I would take climate change more seriously if delegates did not hold their conferences in far flung places, stay in posh airconditioned Hotels (more energy guzzling), eat exotic imported food and get there on fossil fuel guzzling jet planes.  I may even respect them if they linked climate change to human overpopulation, but you can't tax people for how many kids they have, no leader has the means or the balls to do that.  So we come back to taxing carbon emissions which is easy-peasey and very lucrative. Nice gravy train, people can make a good living out of being a climate change confirmer, why would you not make the most of it.

Someone from climate change lobby forgot to tell the ice caps they should be melting, they have increased year on year since the low of 2012. This has cast doubt on their entire business (and computer) model, people will be asking for their carbon taxes to be paid back.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2015/05/19/updated-nasa-data-polar-ice-not-receding-after-all/#1a3edac12892

Actually the point you make about swanning round the world in planes is a fair one. It's why Professor Kevin Anderson of the Tyndall Centre hasn't flown since 2004. He accepts he can't advocate change if he isn't prepared to change himself. Anderson is an interesting character - an engineer who designed oil platforms until he saw the error of his ways!

guest1372

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #560 on: November 24, 2017, 06:37:30 PM »
Someone from climate change lobby forgot to tell the ice caps they should be melting, they have increased year on year since the low of 2012. This has cast doubt on their entire business (and computer) model, people will be asking for their carbon taxes to be paid back.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2015/05/19/updated-nasa-data-polar-ice-not-receding-after-all/#1a3edac12892
Statistics are great when you compare one extreme point against a new single data point especially when quoting a random guy with these credentials*, perhaps a graph might help.  The grey area is the median average from 1981-2010, the 2012 extreme low is dotted, the last 5 years are highlighted.  You'll note that the two lines for 2016 & 2017 don't look that great compared to the extreme and the average; 2016 ends up below the extreme and 2017 is headed that way.  But hey maybe Trump will get his way, sorry the lobbyists way and eliminate their funding, then we can rely on the guy you quoted.

--
TG

Source:
The National Snow and Ice Data Center at The University of Colorado Boulder with partial support from NASA.

* James Taylor, CONTRIBUTOR  I am president of the Spark of Freedom Foundation.
Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own
I have presented environmental analysis on....  Fox News Channel, and several national radio programs

Forbes Runs Misleading Article on Climate Change
The Spark of Freedom Foundation has a stated goal of pushing information and policy favoring nuclear, hydro, and natural gas power. They also have an implicit goal of debunking climate change. The same author has articles on Forbes with the tired argument that cold winters disprove climate change.


culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #561 on: November 24, 2017, 07:35:47 PM »
http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/07/20/global-warming-expedition-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-arctic-sea-ice/

well this was an embarrassment for a team that went to arctic to show how little ice there was,.................
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #562 on: November 25, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
Back to cars lol!

I must have too much time on my hands because I have been mulling over changing my car for some time now. I think I have finally turned against Electric Cars until they get the range and charging infrastructure sorted. As a one car family we need something that is capable of doing all our motoring. One off holidays and I would have hired an ICE car with the savings I made on fuel and road tax but these aren't the problem.

It's these mid distance trips. For some time I'd been logging, on a fairly rough basis, my daily mileage. I went right through to September when I encountered a 140 mile round trip that didn't have a single EV charge station en route. Last week we visited some friends who have moved to just inside North Wales. 76 mile return trip and dodgy in a short range EV.

Conclusion? If it's your only car, now is probably not the time to go EV. If it's your second car - ideal. The situation will look different in the next 2 years or so.

I haven't had a brand new car for many many years. I know it's a waste of money but I can't get the image of a shiny red 67 plate Jazz EX out of my mind!

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #563 on: November 25, 2017, 04:45:50 PM »
Watched the latest edition of Fully Charged and he was talking about the Tesla announcements on their truck and roadster. What the EV experts are reading into the 200 kW battery for the roadster is that Tesla is about to make a jump forward in energy density. They reckon that there is no way you could install a 200 kW battery of current energy density in such a small car.
They also figure that Tesla is about to reduce battery prices dramatically. The 1 MW battery that is fitted to the truck would have to be produced for $100/kW to allow the planned price of $150,000 for the tractor unit. Current battery prices are $200 - $400 per kW.
Now, before culzean has apoplexy, I know that this could all be pie in the sky, and until we see the vehicles for sale with the spec and prices quoted, they could just be figments of Elon Musk's imagination. But those in the EV design and manufacture are excited by the Tesla announcement. So perhaps in two years, Pete, you will get a car with the range you (we all) need.

sparky Paul

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3436
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2015 GG6 Jazz EX 1.4 I-VTEC / 2008 GE3 Jazz SE 1.4 i-DSI
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #564 on: November 25, 2017, 08:37:38 PM »
I haven't watched any FC for a week or two, so thanks for the reminder Jocko.

Also, thanks for reminding me that I don't use the word 'apoplectic' nearly enough these days!

guest1372

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #565 on: November 25, 2017, 10:17:51 PM »
http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/07/20/global-warming-expedition-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-arctic-sea-ice/
It would be better if you quoted genuine sources rather than clickbait from one man band lobbyists, this type of thing harms your credibility.
--
TG

ClimateDepot.com....  has received funding from ExxonMobil, Chevron. 
Marc Morano, Media Matters “Climate Misinformer of the Year”....  began his career with Rush Limbaugh.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #566 on: November 26, 2017, 10:18:12 AM »
http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/07/20/global-warming-expedition-stopped-in-its-tracks-by-arctic-sea-ice/
It would be better if you quoted genuine sources rather than clickbait from one man band lobbyists, this type of thing harms your credibility.
--
TG

ClimateDepot.com....  has received funding from ExxonMobil, Chevron. 
Marc Morano, Media Matters “Climate Misinformer of the Year”....  began his career with Rush Limbaugh.

And other scientists receive money from the climate change lobby and governments who collect carbon taxes,  and only they will tell you the real truth... it's a bit like expecting the BBC to give you real truths when they are visibly controlled by the Liberal elite - they are funded by licence payer but their output (especially news and current affairs) has a distinct liberal tinge to it.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #567 on: November 26, 2017, 10:44:50 AM »
This conspiracy theorising gets us nowhere. Where did the meeting take place to make up a phony science? Who was there? This, as I've said before, puts us in zero sum territory - you point the finger at governments wanting to invent new ways to tax us - I point the finger at Exxon Mobile and other companies who fund climate change scepticism.

Not all governments want to tax more - governments of the centre right generally prefer low tax low spending regimes so I don't see the Conservative Party attending meetings to make up carbon taxes and absolutely not the Republican Party in the USA.

Even Climate Change sceptic Matt Ridley (business interests in coal and fracking equipment) accepts that methane and CO2 are greenhouse gases - why? Because they are.

Scientists from other areas have examined the science and found it soundly based. There really is very little doubt about it.

But people continued to deny the science behind cigarettes causing cancer - some still do. It's uncomfortable to accept that change in behaviour is necessary.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #568 on: November 26, 2017, 11:11:26 AM »
I have witness the weather changing during my 70 years of life on the planet, and from my observations the climate is definitely changing. The summers are getting wetter and the winters are getting warmer. As a youth we would get several falls of snow, here on the Fife coast, that lay for a week or two at a time. Now the one or two falls per winter are gone by lunch time.
Whether it is man made change or natural, I cannot voice an educated opinion, but it seems rather quick compared to other changes in climate over the past 1,000 years or so.
So, personally, I believe man is changing the Earth's climate, and not for the better.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Electric cars
« Reply #569 on: November 26, 2017, 11:28:15 AM »
This conspiracy theorising gets us nowhere. Where did the meeting take place to make up a phony science? Who was there? This, as I've said before, puts us in zero sum territory - you point the finger at governments wanting to invent new ways to tax us - I point the finger at Exxon Mobile and other companies who fund climate change scepticism.

Not all governments want to tax more - governments of the centre right generally prefer low tax low spending regimes so I don't see the Conservative Party attending meetings to make up carbon taxes and absolutely not the Republican Party in the USA.

Even Climate Change sceptic Matt Ridley (business interests in coal and fracking equipment) accepts that methane and CO2 are greenhouse gases - why? Because they are.

Scientists from other areas have examined the science and found it soundly based. There really is very little doubt about it.

But people continued to deny the science behind cigarettes causing cancer - some still do. It's uncomfortable to accept that change in behaviour is necessary.


Climate or carbon tax is not like other taxes which are seen 'as greedy wasteful governments grabbing more money', they are seen as money given to caring governments to save the planet.

Governments  knew about Diesel and asbestos problems a long, long time ago but never instigated and changes until loads of people had died from asbestos related problems, similarly they stuck with Diesel until the bitter end where the VW cover up exposed in USA mad it impossible for them to maintain the 'clean diesel' myth any longer. Governments knew about smoking as well but the tax on tobacco managed to assuage any pangs of conscience they may have had about keeping it quiet.

Governments lied to us about Iraq, guess I was the only one in our office that spotted Tony B Liar was doing this for reasons other than saving us from Iraqi rockets loaded with nuclear warheads  (UN weapons inspectors tried to warn everyone that there were no WMD in Iraq,  but political expediency overruled common sense) , and the aftermath of that little adventure is the whole middle east / north africa totally de-stabilised and in anarchy and flames for foreseeable future).

Its easy to tell when a politician is lying,  their lips are moving.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top