Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 53196 times)

TG

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #705 on: January 20, 2018, 07:14:15 PM »
It's surprising there isn't more conformity driven by IEC standards (and SAE & IEEE), but maybe commercial pressures are forcing the issue. 
Maybe we need an EU directive?

IEC: "Their collective achievement overcame some significant hurdles..... the use of a diverse range of plugs, connectors, voltage levels and frequencies.  Addressing such global challenges, IEC International Standard for EV d.c. fast charging systems comprises the three preferred systems and their associated plugs and connectors: CATARC, COMBO1 and 2, and CHAdeMO."

I'm not sure of the market share vs performance of these three main hookup types?
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TG

http://www.iec.ch/newslog/2014/nr1014.htm
http://www.sae.org/standardsdev/vehicleelectrification.htm
http://standards.ieee.org/findstds/standard/2030.1.1-2015.html

auntyneddy

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #706 on: January 21, 2018, 08:08:05 AM »
The charging points in Lifton are in a residential area and given the number, it would suggest either there are several Tesslas in the Launceston area or the installer anticipates a large uptake of Teslas!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #707 on: January 21, 2018, 12:01:42 PM »
The charging points in Lifton are in a residential area and given the number, it would suggest either there are several Tesslas in the Launceston area or the installer anticipates a large uptake of Teslas!

Up till now Tesla have been supplying a very, very expensive premium car and still haemorrhaging money at about $1billion a quarter - they are having massive problems upscaling production for a cheaper lower margin model 3.  I don't know how much of their losses is due to rolling out their charger network but maybe someone will buy the network when Tesla files for chapter 11.

With more and more competitors models appearing in the lower cost EV market (but still expensive compared to ICE) from mainstream car makers who can run a car making business effectively Tesla shares do not look like a very promising bet.  People from silicon valley,  used to making massive profits from very few employees will never get their head around manufacturing,  especially cars, which is a low margin high risk business.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-issues-causing-dangerous-cash-problem-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

Tesla 'Spacex' rocket division also getting a bad name for 'losing' very expensive satellites - where competitors may be pricier but have a brilliant track record.   No good being cheaper if you then lose billion dollar payloads.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/curious-case-of-elon-musks-disappearing-satellite-spacex-zuma

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lorenthompson/2018/01/15/doubts-about-spacex-reliability-persist-as-astronaut-missions-approach/#500ddbf83305

« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:43:45 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #708 on: January 21, 2018, 12:32:57 PM »
There is a bit of an anomaly on BEV ownership,  If you lease the battery it is probably already costing you more than most people spend on fuel in  month, if you buy the battery you could end up with a very expensive bill or a very expensive ornament that you can't sell because battery is FUBAR.   The BEV is expensive anyway and the value drops like a lead balloon once you have bought one so where is the saving ?

Battery vehicles may make sense for business users because costs are skewed by lower benefit in kind taxes and tax breaks on buying EV etc etc but for private users doing lowish mileage the fuel cost savings are not there if you lease the battery,  and low residuals (high depreciation) on BEV mean lease costs are higher than they should be.

I guess governments are enticing people to buy BEV by subsidies on purchase price, allowing them into cities and towns with no emissions charges and zero road tax.  We all know governments will not suffer the lower tax income for long so I guess when a 'critical mass' of people have been lured in the various charges will go up.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:37:57 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #709 on: February 01, 2018, 05:00:07 PM »
Some interesting videos, from the Energy Saving Trust, about owning and running an electric car. (Energy Saving Trust is an independent, not-for-profit organisation funded by the government and the private sector.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GK2B8RftM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kVPpxAiwCU&t=108s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpPvL3MaVo0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_8lBikCF3Q

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #710 on: February 03, 2018, 09:04:29 AM »
Saw a TV advert for the new Nissan Leaf last night. Very impressive advertising. May well boost sales to the non petrolheads out there. Look out for it on the box.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #711 on: February 04, 2018, 02:43:05 PM »
I received a brochure from Suzuki for the new Swift (I had dabbled with the idea of a Suzuki before getting the Jazz).



I said to my wife that it looked quite smart, and her comment was it was not a patch on the new Nissan they advertised on the telly the other evening. The new 2018 Leaf!
It certainly will appeal to a wider audience than the the old Leaf.



Personally I think it looks closer to the new Jazz.


VicW

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #712 on: February 04, 2018, 07:23:00 PM »
I have just read a road test of a new Renault Zoe EV. The big battery version costs 26,000 after the government grant.
A new,basic, Jazz with no extras, plain colour and CVT costs 15,000.
You can buy a hell of a lot of petrol for 11,000.
That's about 11 years petrol by my consumption allowing for no road tax..
Oh yes I forgot, I would be saving the world!

Vic.


Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #713 on: February 04, 2018, 07:35:10 PM »
How about a Bollinger B1, planned to be available in Right Hand Drive, in the UK in 3 or 4 years? It is what the early Land Rover was, only electric. Looks very exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dav55oUJ-w

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #714 on: February 04, 2018, 08:00:16 PM »
I have just read a road test of a new Renault Zoe EV. The big battery version costs 26,000 after the government grant.
New Nissan Leaf starts at 21,900, and that is with the 40 kWh battery. As well as no petrol (still have to pay for electricity), and no road tax, the cost of servicing is minimal. Even if you get your car serviced by Nissan (who would be so extravagant) it is 50 less than for a petrol minor service and 70 less than for a major petrol service.
The Nissan battery has an eight year/100,000 mile battery capacity warranty.

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #715 on: February 05, 2018, 10:34:05 AM »
Even if you get your car serviced by Nissan (who would be so extravagant) it is 50 less than for a petrol minor service and 70 less than for a major petrol service.

What exactly do they service on an electric vehicle? I imagine the worksheet will consist of a page full of check this, that and the other... and they don't bother with most of them on conventional cars, just tick the boxes.

Perhaps it has to go in to change the pollen filter.


culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #716 on: February 05, 2018, 10:41:03 AM »
Even if you get your car serviced by Nissan (who would be so extravagant) it is 50 less than for a petrol minor service and 70 less than for a major petrol service.

What exactly do they service on an electric vehicle? I imagine the worksheet will consist of a page full of check this, that and the other... and they don't bother with most of them on conventional cars, just tick the boxes.

Perhaps it has to go in to change the pollen filter.

They do what dealers normally do for a service - stamp the book, valet the car and give it back to you,  its far cheaper to use a car wash.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #717 on: February 05, 2018, 12:05:17 PM »
I think Culzean has a point. There is literally nothing to do and yet my mate tells me he pays 99 for a small service and 199 for a big one on his Nissan Leaf. Brake fluid change is the only thing they do on the big one.

OK - go to a main dealer on a Jazz and you'll pay 165 for the small service and 265 for the big one but there is stuff to do!

Have an MOT done and they'll do a check list safety check for nothing. I guess the service charges for EVs are to preserve revenue streams and very little else.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #718 on: February 05, 2018, 12:09:23 PM »
From what I have read an EV service comprises a pollen filter change and a cursory brake check (though with regen braking and the new "single pedal" operation brakes are good for over 100,000 miles. Perhaps it is to check the brakes have not seized up!).
Latest figures from the SMMT, released today, show that "Sales of alternatively fuelled vehicles, including electric and hybrid vehicles, saw a rise of 34.8% to almost 120,000.". Sales of EVs is up 25%, according to BBC news broadcast at 11:30, but not published on the BBC web site.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42571828

http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/statistics/

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #719 on: February 05, 2018, 12:45:41 PM »
On costs I think it is still the case that you need to do a lot of miles to recoup the price premium. They make a great deal of sense for somebody who does a daily commute by car if it's an appreciable distance.

Where I started to cool on EVs was when I looked at my annual mileage of 3,000 (ish). This costs me around 30 per month along with 10 Road Tax. Then there is the range thing and this is where it gets quite frustrating. 95% of my journeys are 10 miles or less. I'd probably only need to charge up once a week. The problem comes with a few journeys that are virtually undoable in an EV with limited range - there are no chargers on the way. There are another couple of trips that are doable but squeaky bum time in terms of range.

Had a good long think and this is what would tempt me - 200 miles range at 70 mph on a wet motorway on a cold day with climate control set to 21 degrees and a purchase price - new - of no more than 15,000. We will get there but, until we do, I'm out.

If I had 2 cars - I'd have an older EV in a heartbeat as one of the two but I am the only driver in our household.

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