Author Topic: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble  (Read 2545 times)

culzean

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Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« on: May 22, 2019, 08:24:18 PM »
Article from RAC about how failing to indicate properly can get you 9 points and £5000 fine.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/careless-turning-could-indicate-a-5000-fine/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CHUB_MS_W1_2019-05-22_160411_10395050&cid=eml-email-CHUB_MS_W1_2019-05-22_160411_10395050-Drive_NL_MEMB_1st_Feature

Don't know what planet Emma Patterson is on though, in an article that says if you don't indicate you can be in big trouble she says “In some ways, an over eagerness to signal can be just as bad as failing to signal.”, so you are damned if you do and damned if you don't....!!

Emma Patterson, a UK motoring lawyer at Patterson Law, said drivers should always signal their intentions to other road users, including pedestrians.

“Failing to do so may mean a motorist falls below the threshold of being a careful, competent driver and they could be hit with a 'driving without due care and attention’ charge, or in rarer circumstances even 'dangerous driving’.”

She added: “In some ways, an over eagerness to signal can be just as bad as failing to signal.”
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Ozzie

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2019, 08:50:11 PM »
Plenty of work for your local driving instructor  ;) ;) ;)

peteo48

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2019, 09:56:39 PM »
Plenty of work for your local driving instructor  ;) ;) ;)

Definitely scope for refresher courses Ozzie ;)

Jocko

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 06:42:30 AM »
I don't know why the standard of indicating is so poor in the majority of drivers. Possibly just the general "F**k you" malaise of the British public. I have to assume they are all taught to signal correctly to pass their test. Is too much emphasis placed on not signalling when not required? Driver's then think it is only necessary to signal if an absolute must?
Reading the original article it would appear that the “In some ways, an over eagerness to signal can be just as bad as failing to signal.”, pertains more to haphazard use of flashing headlights than using indicators.

springswood

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 09:31:19 AM »
I should be scared, I indicate a lot, even if I'm not sure anyone is there.

I think the article is mostly click bait. Though I agree with Jocko I see a lot of that malaise. And there's something wrong with your motivation if it's just to avoid prosecution. I see a lot of CYA indicating (cover your arse). Like the Audi I was following yesterday who suddenly braked, started his right turn and then indicated. Though it's nothing new. I passed my test in the late 70s and recall thinking MSM must stand for Manoeuvre Signal Mirror? what the f***'s that?

Flashing headlights get overdone too. There's a spot I often wait to turn right across two lanes of queuing traffic. At least twice drivers in the outside lane have flashed me because their queue has stopped. I refuse because the other is moving. You can bet they're not happy.

The one that beggared belief was another place. Again waiting to turn right, this time crossing three lanes. I could see the two cars ahead were impatiently edging forward and the first was across the first lane. Maybe not realising the light that queue was stopped for would soon go green. Though the other two lanes were moving the second car reckoned there was a gap, swerved round the inside and stormed through! I suppose they think they're a good driver for not having an accident (then), maybe they felt they deserved the ultimate driving machine. Of course in less than a minute we got a filter arrow...
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

Jocko

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 10:06:49 AM »
I signal all the time. In a busy city centre, on a quiet country road in the middle of the night. I work on the principle that if someone sees my signal then it has done its job. And if no one sees it then who knows and who cares. It is like the old philosophical question, "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?".
When I did my driver training with Stagecoach I was told to signal whether there was anyone there to see it or not, a policy I had adopted since learning to drive at 17. I would rather the driver in front signalled by rote than did not signal at all. I also always manually cancel my indicator, once it has served its purpose. Drivers who wait for it to cancel automatically can drive miles with it still flashing.
When leaving a dual carriageway I start to signal at the 300 yard marker and cancel my indicator as soon as my wheels cross the line for the slip road.
In town, I am very particular about not signalling too early. On my test, 50+ years ago, I was told to make a right turn into a particular street. I started to indicate and then realised there was an opening before the one I was to take. I said "Oh sh*t", and cancelled the indicator before signalling correctly for the junction I was to take. When it came to the Highway Code questions the examiner asked me "When should you start to signal for a turning?", to which I replied, "Certainly not before you pass the previous turning, as I did". The examiner said "I guessed you had realised your mistake". I have stuck to that principle throughout my driving life, even my boy racer days! And when I sat my test you had to do a section of the test using hand signals. A couple of left turns, a couple of right turns and a couple of slowing down manoeuvres. Most drivers today wouldn't have a scooby how to give a hand signal, even though they are still in the highway code.



dave456

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 12:28:37 PM »
Hi some one wants to tell B M W and AUDI drivers. That they have indicators on there cars because they never use them police would have a field day catching them .

Jocko

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 02:32:56 PM »
The whole thing is, the police have neither the resources or the will to prosecute motorists. If they wanted to, they could set up a check into any town, any winter's morning, to catch the dozens of motorists with missing lights or driving with fog lights on. They could stop motorists all day long for speeding. Police Scotland tell their officers only to stop motorists for blatant dangerous driving or driving at excessive speed. As I said, insufficient resources and no will.

ColinS

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 02:50:34 PM »
Reading the original article it would appear that the “In some ways, an over eagerness to signal can be just as bad as failing to signal.”, pertains more to haphazard use of flashing headlights than using indicators.

A retired Chief Superintendent friend of mine told me of a motorist who flashed his lights for an oncoming car to turn right across his path into a side road.  In doing so, the oncoming motorist knocked a cyclist over and killed him.  The motorist who flashed his lights was subsequently found guilty of causing the death of the cyclist because he had indicated to the other driver that it was safe for him to proceed.

I am since very mindful of that story before I flash my lights.

jonathan

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2019, 03:59:10 PM »
Surely the only guilty party is the unfortunate on-coming motorist, whether or not anyone was flashed it is up to the unfortunate on-coming motorist who hit the cyclist to ensure they can see on-coming vehicles.

I was always told not to trust anyone intentions until they actually do them, predominately at junctions and roundabouts. I'E Look first before you change directions, and not on the guidance of a fellow motorist.

I would deem the "flasher" not responsible at all.

In my opinion :)


Jocko

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2019, 04:00:29 PM »
Similar thing in news in Edinburgh. A bus driver flashed another bus driver to turn right across his stationary bus. However, a cyclist was overtaking up the inside of the stationary bus and collided with the turning bus. The turnong bus driver appeared at Edinburgh Sheriff Court on Tuesday, and admitted a charge of careless driving by failing to drive his vehicle with due care and attention. However Sheriff John Cook acknowledged the cyclist’s part in the incident and decided to admonish him on the charge and place five penalty points on the bus driver’s licence. No mention of the driver who flashed his lights.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/crime/bus-driver-who-crashed-into-musselburgh-cyclist-in-edinburgh-escapes-ban-1-4931923

culzean

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2019, 04:08:09 PM »
If anyone flashes me all they are telling me is that they are not going to move, not that the way is clear, the onus is still on me to check everything else that I would normally check.  Even a green traffic light only allows you to proceed if it is safe to do so ( as an example you should not move until your exit is clear, so that you don't block the junction, but try telling some people that ).  I still treat green traffic lights as a 'give way ) sign and have a quick look each way.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

ColinS

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 04:31:38 PM »
Surely the only guilty party is the unfortunate on-coming motorist, whether or not anyone was flashed it is up to the unfortunate on-coming motorist who hit the cyclist to ensure they can see on-coming vehicles.

I was always told not to trust anyone intentions until they actually do them, predominately at junctions and roundabouts. I'E Look first before you change directions, and not on the guidance of a fellow motorist.

I would deem the "flasher" not responsible at all.

In my opinion :)

I'm not saying that the on-coming motorist got off, just that the "flasher" was also prosecuted.  It was several years ago so I'm not sure I can find any details but it happened in Dorset, possibly the Weymouth area as that is where my friend was stationed.

Jocko

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 04:32:45 PM »
I still treat green traffic lights as a 'give way ) sign and have a quick look each way.
I do that as well. I am very careful at lights as many drivers are happy to ignore the amber and as a consequence often catch the red.
Like the old joke:

Two guys are driving. Well, actually, only one is driving, the other is riding. Anyway, they're driving along, and they come to a red light. The driver blows right through it! The passenger says "What the hell, man?! That was a red light!" The driver waves him off, saying, "My brother drives like this!"
So they drive a little while longer, and they come to another red light. Once again, the driver blows right through it. The passenger freaks out. The driver says, "Man, relax, alright? My brother always drives like this, and he's never been in one accident."
A few moments later, they come to a green light, and they stop. The passenger looks at the driver and says, "What the hell are you stopping now for?"
"Well, my brother might be coming the other way!"


One of my bugbears are drivers that block roundabouts, especially now that road designers love installing light controlled crossings immediately on the exit from roundabouts.

ColinS

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Re: Failing to indicate properly can get you into big trouble
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 04:41:25 PM »
Extract from the Highway Code:

Rule 110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111
Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

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