Steel wheels and winter tyres

[Jocko]

I was commuting over 40 miles each way to work in hilly areas with a lot of 'B' roads, they proved their worth many times since.  Even getting off our estate is a problem as we have a twisty hill gets no sun and we are quite high up,

If you have a need for them there is no doubt there's a benefit. I feel I do not have a need, and with steel wheels already, no advantage there.
Last winter I had one 6 am start in this, but by lunchtime the roads were clear. And that was it!

[andruec]

I was a sceptic for a long time about winter tyres,  but eventually got some because of a bad winter and I was commuting over 40 miles each way to work in hilly areas with a lot of 'B' roads, they proved their worth many times since.  Even getting off our estate is a problem as we have a twisty hill gets no sun and we are quite high up, so any snow does not melt of its own accord and you often find people have stolen the salt out of the council bins for their own driveways,  so no good looking in there.

I'm not suggesting they aren't an improvement. I'm just suggesting that most people in the UK have concluded that they aren't really necessary and don't justify the hassle and cost. There's the cost of paying someone to fit them (not everyone wants to change their own wheels and some don't have anywhere to do it). There's the cost of having someone store them. Then there's the irritating trip to the storage facility to have them fitted..or worse still to pick them up and then go somewhere else to have them fitted.

If you live in a rural area that might make them more useful and justify the inconvenience but I think most people can't be bothered and most people seem to get around well enough anyway.

[Jocko]

I also believe that summer tyres and knowing how to drive in snow will get you further than winter tyres and no clue. Unfortunately the majority of drivers seem not to have a clue.

[richardfrost]

I also believe that summer tyres and knowing how to drive in snow will get you further than winter tyres and no clue. Unfortunately the majority of drivers seem not to have a clue.

I don't normally disagree with you Jocko but on this thing I do.

My first experience of Winter tyres was when I took my son skiing in Andorra. We hired a car in Barcelona and drove up from there. After a couple of days, there was a fall of snow and my car would go nowhere. I have many years driving experience, including all weathers. I have crossed the pennines regularly on Summer tyres in all kinds of vehicles and weather conditions. But on snow and ice like this, my hired Megane was going nowhere. And yet everyone else was driving around as if the snow wasn't there. The reason? Winter tyres.

The next Winter, I put some on my Jazz (2nd gen) and, as I live quite high up in the Pennines, encountered a lot of snow. I was able to point my Jazz up the steep and bendy road to my village and drive home, when proper 4x4s were really struggling. For years I had 4x4s with Summer tyres and had struggled (but managed) on these hills. With the Jazz on Winters, the only thing I would not tackle was deep snow.

I honestly believe in normal snowy Winter conditions with winter tyres on, a novice driver could manage whereas such a driver on summer tyres would come a cropper.

Having said all of that, if you live in a relatively low lying flat area and considering our normal Winter weather, I can understand why most people in the UK don't bother. I haven't got any for my RAV4 yet, but once these tyres are near the limit, I will be swapping them with All Seasons.

[Jocko]

My first experience of Winter tyres was when I took my son skiing in Andorra. We hired a car in Barcelona and drove up from there. After a couple of days, there was a fall of snow and my car would go nowhere. I have many years driving experience, including all weathers. I have crossed the pennines regularly on Summer tyres in all kinds of vehicles and weather conditions. But on snow and ice like this, my hired Megane was going nowhere. And yet everyone else was driving around as if the snow wasn't there. The reason? Winter tyres.

I would imagine that the cars with their winter tyres were regular skiers (my neighbour is a regular skier and his car is fitter with mud and snow tyres), used to driving in snow, so perhaps it does not refute my statement. I am not arguing that winter tyres do not make a difference, but even with full snow tyres the numpties who try and pull away, in first gear, and with loads of revs, are going nowhere.
My son-in-law is an expert at driving in snow. He has a large van, on standard van tyres, and he spends his winter going to stranded gritters and ploughs, broken down in the Scottish Highlands. The fact it carries tons of tools and equipment probably helps.

[culzean]

I have been through many bad winters and proper winter tyres would have turned stressful journeys into a much happier experience, there is a limit on the grip of summer tyres in snow that you sometimes just cannot compensate for.  IMHO The best combination for winter driving is CVT combined with winter tyres because the CVT system will limit the power available to driving wheels and try to stop wheelspin ( CVT should always select highest gear with respect to throttle position ). Traction control ( Honda VSA ) should help to stop wheels spinning but sometimes it is better to turn it off in snow.  The other thing about winter tyres is the braking aspect, which can massively reduce stopping distances.

My wife's Fiat Punto CVT was ok in snow as it had a magnetic powder clutch that gave a very smooth take up of the drive, which combined with a fairly low powered engine limited tendency to spin the wheels.

[Jocko]

I always found my automatics great in the snow for the same reason. They also had a "Snow" or "Winter" switch (depending on manufacturer), which meant it would start off in 4th gear and stay there until you cancelled it or reached 50 mph. Torque converter did all the work.

[richardfrost]

I would imagine that the cars with their winter tyres were regular skiers (my neighbour is a regular skier and his car is fitter with mud and snow tyres), used to driving in snow, so perhaps it does not refute my statement.

Actually they were mostly the Andorran, Spanish and French residents, for whom winter tyres are mandatory in Winter.

[Jocko]

I would imagine that the cars with their winter tyres were regular skiers (my neighbour is a regular skier and his car is fitter with mud and snow tyres), used to driving in snow, so perhaps it does not refute my statement.

Actually they were mostly the Andorran, Spanish and French residents, for whom winter tyres are mandatory in Winter.

So if you are resident in the area you will know how to drive in snow, or should do.

[richardfrost]

Well my point is that with Winter tyres, you can pretty much drive normally. The only special care you need is patience and the nouse not to drive in the deep stuff.

[jazzaro]

My first experience of Winter tyres was when I took my son skiing in Andorra. We hired a car in Barcelona and drove up from there. After a couple of days, there was a fall of snow and my car would go nowhere. I have many years driving experience, including all weathers. I have crossed the pennines regularly on Summer tyres in all kinds of vehicles and weather conditions. But on snow and ice like this, my hired Megane was going nowhere. And yet everyone else was driving around as if the snow wasn't there. The reason? Winter tyres.

I would imagine that the cars with their winter tyres were regular skiers (my neighbour is a regular skier and his car is fitter with mud and snow tyres), used to driving in snow, so perhaps it does not refute my statement. I am not arguing that winter tyres do not make a difference, but even with full snow tyres the numpties who try and pull away, in first gear, and with loads of revs, are going nowhere.
My son-in-law is an expert at driving in snow. He has a large van, on standard van tyres, and he spends his winter going to stranded gritters and ploughs, broken down in the Scottish Highlands. The fact it carries tons of tools and equipment probably helps.

I totally agree with Richardfrost. With summer tires you can drive (you need a lot of skills...) but only in flat lands, or in low degree climbs. In standard climbs we found in our Alps, you could be the best driver in snow of the world, you won't be able to drive because of spinning, even with a 4wd. In our mountains I've seen lots of 4wd suv blocked, 4 summer  wheels spinning and spinning while little 2wd Golfs, Puntos or 1er BMW, with winter tires, could drive with no problems.  I use to say that "winter tires are not useful until you try them"
There are another 2 good points for winter tires at low temperature: one is the grip on wet roads (both with heavy rain  and slighy wet- dry as you can find in early morning), the other is the feeling: especially with wet, winter tires are more "progessive" in losing grip, so you can easily correct your trajectory with brakes and steering wheel. Summer tires suddenly lose grip and then it is more difficult to get it again.
That's why I prefer to have winter tires in my cars, even if I could comply our rules with summer tires and snow chains in my boot. This octorber I spent 700€ for a set of alloy rims and 4 Hankook (not cheap,I know), but winter tires are definetly safer in our country.

[Jocko]

But we don't have Alps in the UK. I am not decrying Winter tyres. I am just saying that, in the UK, most drivers have no need for them (most but not all). In 50+ years of driving in the UK the only time I have ever been stymied in snow was due to the depth. Difficult to go anywhere when it is up past your front number plate!

[richardfrost]

But we don't have Alps in the UK.

Ha ha. You should see the hill I have to climb to get to my village. But I do take your point.

[jazzaro]

But we don't have Alps in the UK. I am not decrying Winter tyres. I am just saying that, in the UK, most drivers have no need for them (most but not all). In 50+ years of driving in the UK the only time I have ever been stymied in snow was due to the depth. Difficult to go anywhere when it is up past your front number plate!

Correct.
If most owners use to drive in flat roads, they can keep fitting their summer tires, as I saw last week.  Winter or 4 season tires would perform better, but summer tires. can go.
We live at the south of Europe, usually summer time is hotter but winter season is cooler even nearby the sea.

[andruec]

But we don't have Alps in the UK. I am not decrying Winter tyres. I am just saying that, in the UK, most drivers have no need for them (most but not all). In 50+ years of driving in the UK the only time I have ever been stymied in snow was due to the depth. Difficult to go anywhere when it is up past your front number plate!

Correct.
If most owners use to drive in flat roads, they can keep fitting their summer tires, as I saw last week.  Winter or 4 season tires would perform better, but summer tires. can go.
We live at the south of Europe, usually summer time is hotter but winter season is cooler even nearby the sea.

The UK has the gulf stream to thank for its climate (not entirely but it's a major factor). It's amazing to think that we're on the same latitude as Quebec. They are currently experiencing -8 during the day and -16 overnight. Temperatures of -8 do occur in the UK but not very often and almost never during the day. Yay for the gulf stream