Author Topic: 30 day rule  (Read 3996 times)

guest7483

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30 day rule
« on: March 06, 2018, 06:53:47 PM »
Hi

I bought a Honda Jazz 09 from a used car dealer about 28 days ago and it has developed a fault.

It started running rough, misfiring and stuttering under load on Sunday, this continued yesterday and today it was misfiring a lot whilst sat outside school and there was a strange squealing coming from the glove box area. After dropping off my daughter I set off for work and the car wouldn't go above 25 miles per hour and the amber EML was flashing. I limped into work and booked it in to my mechanic.

Yesterday I reported this to the dealer, that was day 28. I sent an e-mail and followed up with a text, he then rang and agreed to pay for repairs. Today I updated him with the new problems and asked for him to reply by text rather than phone calls so I have the conversation recorded on my phone.

I have been reading up on my rights to refuse the car within 30 days if it isn't fit for purpose.

My questions would be:

1. Would you class this type of fault as unfit for purpose?
2. Would the fact that I have the conversation recorded on my phone in the form of texts be substantial documentation?
3. Would the fact that I alerted the dealer of this issue by text after 28 days be enough to still implement the 30 day rule even if any failure to repair takes me over the 30 days?
4. Do I actually have to attempt repair or let him attempt repair or can I just return it unrepaired as I have lost faith in the vehicle?
5. If it does get repaired and then the repair fails again 6 months later, can I still refuse the car and get my money back?

That's all I can think of for now, if anyone can help it would be great as I need to get this sorted and I can't afford to write this off at the moment.

culzean

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 07:40:06 PM »
Hi

I bought a Honda Jazz 09 from a used car dealer about 28 days ago and it has developed a fault.

It started running rough, misfiring and stuttering under load on Sunday, this continued yesterday and today it was misfiring a lot whilst sat outside school and there was a strange squealing coming from the glove box area. After dropping off my daughter I set off for work and the car wouldn't go above 25 miles per hour and the amber EML was flashing. I limped into work and booked it in to my mechanic.

Yesterday I reported this to the dealer, that was day 28. I sent an e-mail and followed up with a text, he then rang and agreed to pay for repairs. Today I updated him with the new problems and asked for him to reply by text rather than phone calls so I have the conversation recorded on my phone.

I have been reading up on my rights to refuse the car within 30 days if it isn't fit for purpose.

My questions would be:

1. Would you class this type of fault as unfit for purpose?
2. Would the fact that I have the conversation recorded on my phone in the form of texts be substantial documentation?
3. Would the fact that I alerted the dealer of this issue by text after 28 days be enough to still implement the 30 day rule even if any failure to repair takes me over the 30 days?
4. Do I actually have to attempt repair or let him attempt repair or can I just return it unrepaired as I have lost faith in the vehicle?
5. If it does get repaired and then the repair fails again 6 months later, can I still refuse the car and get my money back?

That's all I can think of for now, if anyone can help it would be great as I need to get this sorted and I can't afford to write this off at the moment.

Don't really know if a text is a legal document,  although I believe people have been sacked via a text message ,  but an email or a recorded delivery letter is.  If you bought a car from a registered trader you have 6 months legal warranty anyway (on a private sale you have no legal comeback).  Send them a recorded delivery (sign for) letter dated before the 30 days is up to hedge your bets stating your concerns clearly and what you expect the dealer to do.

I would contact your local trading standards but i am certain that you have to give the dealer a reasonable time to respond to your concerns and repair or take the vehicle back.  Your first port of call if dealer gets stroppy is firstly local council trading standards or secondly citizens advice.  I you are a member of  AA, RAC or similar you can get help from them as well.

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/legal-rights

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3656701/What-consumer-rights-buy-used-car-goes-wrong.html

According to these sites you can still ask for full refund up to 6 months.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 07:52:19 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest7483

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 07:54:35 PM »
Thank you for your reply.

I will see what the verdict is tomorrow and as you say send a letter stating my intentions.

Hopefully it's an easy fix as I actually like the car.

Jocko

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 07:58:53 PM »
Sounds like the dealer is happy enough to pay for the repair. Don't get too worked up. As soon as you get a diagnosis and price from your mechanic, phone the dealer with the details. Other than this problem, are you happy with the car? If so, do you want the hassle of refusing it and any associate delay? I'd see what he says once your mechanic has looked at it. Make your judgement then.

Jocko

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 08:04:48 PM »
This is what "Which" has to say about it:

The second-hand car I bought has a problem, what are my rights?
If your second-hand car develops a problem, you’re not alone. Regardless of whether the banger you bought was from a used-car dealer or a friend of a friend, you do have rights.

Rejecting a second-hand car
If there's a problem with a second-hand car soon after you've bought it - for example, the car develops a problem you wouldn't expect for its age and mileage, or it turns out not to be what you’d been led to expect - you may have the right to reject it and get your money back.

If you bought the car any time after 1 October 2015, you have only 30 days to reject it and get a full refund under the Consumer Rights Act.

Cars bought before 1 October 2015 would have come under the Sale of Goods Act, which has now been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act. This stated that you must have rejected the car within a reasonable time frame (probably within three to four weeks – less if it was an obvious problem).

If you reject a second-hand car bought in the UK, you must stop using it immediately.

Returning a second-hand car
If you're past the first 30 days but a problem has arisen that you think would have been there at the time of purchase, you're entitled to ask for a repair or replacement free of charge.

In most cases this will be a repair, as whoever sold the car to you will usually be able to prove that the cost of replacing it would be disproportionate.

During the first six months after purchase, it's the responsibility of the seller to prove the fault wasn't there, not for you to prove that it was.

But after the first six months, the onus will be on you to prove that the fault was present from the day you bought the car.

If the attempt at a repair or replacement is unsuccessful, you're entitled to a refund.

But the car dealer can make a deduction from the refund after the first 30 days for 'fair use'.


https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

guest7483

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 08:36:14 PM »
Sounds like the dealer is happy enough to pay for the repair. Don't get too worked up. As soon as you get a diagnosis and price from your mechanic, phone the dealer with the details. Other than this problem, are you happy with the car? If so, do you want the hassle of refusing it and any associate delay? I'd see what he says once your mechanic has looked at it. Make your judgement then.

Hi thank you for your reply.

I am happy with the car, but it does seem to be a bit dodgy first and second gear like the synchros are worn. It whines in first and second gear and the seems to be a few more dings and scratches than I would have liked. When cleaning I noticed overspray at the rear and the front. The underneath is a tad more rotten than my last car of the same year and I found a little bit of paint bobbling on the front driver and passenger door sill area.

I will speak to the mechanic and see what he thinks and if I do reject it then I will look at getting another Jazz :)

Jocko

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 09:06:01 PM »
Your gearbox sounds like mine did, before I had the bearings replaced. £324. What year is it?

culzean

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 09:14:42 PM »
What age is the car,  to have whining in first and second gear on a GE seems strange,more likely to happen on a the earlier GD  but could be expensive fix ( min £300 up to £600+ ).  Make sure you mention hard gear selection and whining in any e-mail or letter. If you think car has been in accident get the AA to inspect it,  I think you can get them to inspect it for around £130 if a member (but check with them) costs a bit more if you are not a member.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 09:17:30 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

123Drive!

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 09:27:05 PM »
Give CAB, citizens advice bureau, a call tomorrow morning. They can give you help and tell you which letter to write. Good luck!

guest7483

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 09:30:35 PM »
Your gearbox sounds like mine did, before I had the bearings replaced. £324. What year is it?

It's a 09/59 GE, I bought it because I couldn't find any issues with the gearbox online, only with the GD gearboxes.

guest7483

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 09:33:29 PM »
Give CAB, citizens advice bureau, a call tomorrow morning. They can give you help and tell you which letter to write. Good luck!

I will thank you. It isn't until I've just listed the problems on here that I've realised how bad the car is. I just sort of accepted the gearbox as the way they are.

coffeecup

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 08:28:29 AM »
Get rid, sounds like a pup !!!

culzean

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2018, 08:55:03 AM »
This is what "Which" has to say about it:

The second-hand car I bought has a problem, what are my rights?
If your second-hand car develops a problem, you’re not alone. Regardless of whether the banger you bought was from a used-car dealer or a friend of a friend, you do have rights.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

Get rid, sounds like a pup !!!
 
My thoughts exactly and good advice - the dealer will probably try to put you off as long as they can though,  so be prepared to be very firm and keep a paper trail of correspondence. 


Seems to me if you buy a car privately or at auction your rights are pretty much non-existent as the onus is completely on you to prove things, and a verbal agreement is simply not worth the paper it is written on.   Buying from a registered dealer gives you the full package but it is important to deal with emails or recorder delivery letters

Interesting article that says in certain circumstances a, SMS 'text' can be used as evidence,  but IMHO email (you automatically get proof of delivery to their mailbox) or letter (with proof of delivery) is much better bet.

https://www.dbllaw.com/can-emails-messages-constitute-legally-binding-agreement/
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5079

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2018, 11:25:29 AM »
I wish Molly well and endorse all that has been said about keeping copies of correspondence.  I subscribe to a computer magazine. I don't understand most of it but it is very useful.
In virtually issue there is a query about consumers rights on goods and in most cases the companies, often high street names try it on. I quote from Computer Active. 'Within the first 30 days after purchase,if the goods appear to be inherently faulty, the consumer can reject them, choosing a replacement or refund.' Within six months retailers are entitled to test whether a fault is inherent. It must carry out these tests within a reasonable time. It is accepted that this reasonable time is a problem as it is ambiguous.No time limit for tests but generally longer than four weeks would be considered unreasonable' So Molly, try the dealer and he might be a bit more cooperative if he realises you are no push over. I wonder if anyone has tested the 'generous' 3 mths warranty given by dealers? Is there anyone who knows if S/H cars are in a different category to other goods. I have never seen it written that they are. Consumer protection is just that!
I had an issue with BT. They ignored my Emails for over a month. My contract was coming to an end and I was trying to get a decent deal for the next year. BT merely started another contract at a much higher amount. I asked the magazine could they do this. NO was the answer. Suddenly BT corresponded and I got a deal.
As hard as it appears Molly has got to get advice and also professional help if needed.
S/H cars it seems are one of the areas where dealers play hard ball. It seems more so with the Fairer sex.

guest7483

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Re: 30 day rule
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2018, 06:23:17 PM »
Hi all

I've gone down the repair route, all the other stuff is minor and the gearbox isn't as bad as It seems, I am very critical, a bit too critical some would say.

I was very surprised by the dealers reaction to the repair though, he implied he was doing me a favour by paying for it, I got quite angry to be fair so gave him my mechanics number rather than deal with him. I'd love to be able to change the favorable review I gave him the arrogant little so and so.

So the end result is I hopefully will get my car back tomorrow running well and shining.

Thanks for all your help so far :)

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