Author Topic: Road test Jazz v Yaris  (Read 5205 times)

Derkie54

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It will be alright in the end, if it's not alright then it's not the end !

John Ratsey

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2020, 04:36:00 PM »
Thanks for this. Apart from the comments about the Yaris' rear seats being more claustrophobic there's no specific comment about the Yaris being a smaller vehicle than the Jazz (but the final photo shows this very effectively). It's no surprise that the Yaris is the more economical of the two although I'm wondering how the Crosstar was driven in order to get only 52mpg (outside lane of motorway?). However, it's good to see the Crosstar gets the reviewer's vote for reasons familiar to the Crosstar owners.

There's a Yaris Cross arriving soon which looks somewhat larger than the basic Yaris https://www.whatcar.com/news/2021-toyota-yaris-cross-previewed-price-specs-and-release-date/n21346 and may be larger than the Crosstar.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

stiggysawdust

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2020, 09:18:26 PM »
No heated seats in the Yaris and metallic blue not available in the version I wanted, also the Jazz EX has a heated steering wheel. So the Jazz EX was my choice and I am very pleased with it.
Unfortunately, moving from an HRV EX I miss the self dimming rear view interior mirror and the dipping wing mirror when reversing, also the passenger seat does not have adjustable height. Shame.
Hondas penny-pinching spoils the alloy wheels with the ugly plastic trims. Lesser models have much nicer wheels but not able to have those. But I really am still pleased with it.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 09:24:45 PM by stiggysawdust »
2020 Honda Jazz 1.5 i-MMD Hybrid EX Midnight Moonbeam Blue Metallic

Kremmen

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2020, 04:31:50 AM »
Sadly it's the same with the Civic range. Each new model year sees nice to have bits being removed.

Designed by accountants not enthusiasts.

I would have expected the auto dimming rearview mirror to be standard on the EX versions. The auto dipping passenger door mirror I had on my Xantias, a very useful feature. Honda have it so why not install it across new models, penny pinching.

My Civic has a useful elasticated strap in the glovebox to hold the manual pack vertical, at the back out of the way, to give useful space. The model year later, they removed it so if you carry the manual the glovebox is not as useable. They also r3moved the neat front seat bolt covers. Later models had exposed seat bolts that looked tacky.
Let's be careful out there !

Westy36

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2020, 10:39:41 AM »
Good link, thanks for posting.  :)

I didn't realise just how complex the Jazz drivetrain is. The Toyota has a more simple drivetrain, or at least it has to my mind.

Prefer the look of the Jazz and the refinment is a big bonus, but the Yaris is more traditional. Interesting comparison. Still surprised that superminis are £20,000 though. That is a lot of money for a small car.

John Ratsey

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2020, 12:53:07 PM »
Unfortunately, moving from an HRV EX I miss the self dimming rear view interior mirror and the dipping wing mirror when reversing, also the passenger seat does not have adjustable height. Shame.
Hondas penny-pinching spoils the alloy wheels with the ugly plastic trims.
The reversing camera largely compensates for the absence of the dipping wing mirror although it's omission saves no money as the motor is still in the mirror for adjustment. I've no complaint about the plastic trims on my Crosstar's wheels. There's less shiny metal to keep clean.

I didn't realise just how complex the Jazz drivetrain is. The Toyota has a more simple drivetrain, or at least it has to my mind.
The Jazz is mechanically relatively simple: Basically there's a generator (which can also work as a motor) bolted to the engine plus a motor (which can also work as a generator) fixed to the final drive with a box of solid state electronics (assisted by the battery and possible super-capacitor) matching the engine speed to the road speed/power requirement.Then there's the clutch that enables direct drive if cruising above about 43mph (I measured this on my Crosstar) to avoid the energy loss through the box of electronics. All this, except the battery, is contained in a module of similar size to the CVT gearbox and the electronics has got its own cooling system. I don't know if the generator attached to the engine replaces the flywheel which was the case with the IMA hybrids.

As the review noted, this transmission configuration avoids the engine speed variations associated with a mechanical CVT gearbox and the engine can go immediately to the speed needed to match the power requirement with the battery handling any small shortfall / surplus in power. Honda calls it eCVT which is technically correct but causes many people to think that there's still a mechanical CVT gearbox under the bonnet.

The Jazz pricing might become more competitive. I recall that there's currently a 10% tariff on vehicles imported from Japan which will disappear when the UK - Japan trade agreement is implemented while, on the other hand, it's currently looking likely that there will soon be a 10% tariff on vehicles imported from Europe.
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Kremmen

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2020, 03:31:41 PM »
My first impression when comparing that Yaris to the Crosstar was comparing apples and pears.

A normal Jazz v Yaris might have been more suitable ?

10% cheaper maybe next year, glad I'm waiting for the MY21 :)


With regard to the lack of the auto dimming rear view mirror, my 8G Civics never had them and I tooled around 24x7 with it on permanent dip. Quite useful with some powerful DRL's out there.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 03:35:37 PM by Kremmen »
Let's be careful out there !

Expatman

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2020, 03:42:04 PM »
The last information I read concerning import duties on cars from Japan to UK was that the tariffs would be removed in 2026. I believe discussions are continuing but 2026 is the date for the elimination of tariffs on cars imported to EU - so it looks like we are mirroring the EU still!!

Expatman

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2020, 03:46:30 PM »
There is a comparison test with the new Yaris, Jazz and VW Polo in the latest edition of WhatCar. Interesting reading with the jazz coming out top.

Westy36

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2020, 04:39:24 PM »
I didn't realise just how complex the Jazz drivetrain is. The Toyota has a more simple drivetrain, or at least it has to my mind.
The Jazz is mechanically relatively simple: Basically there's a generator (which can also work as a motor) bolted to the engine plus a motor (which can also work as a generator) fixed to the final drive with a box of solid state electronics (assisted by the battery and possible super-capacitor) matching the engine speed to the road speed/power requirement.Then there's the clutch that enables direct drive if cruising above about 43mph (I measured this on my Crosstar) to avoid the energy loss through the box of electronics. All this, except the battery, is contained in a module of similar size to the CVT gearbox and the electronics has got its own cooling system. I don't know if the generator attached to the engine replaces the flywheel which was the case with the IMA hybrids.

As the review noted, this transmission configuration avoids the engine speed variations associated with a mechanical CVT gearbox and the engine can go immediately to the speed needed to match the power requirement with the battery handling any small shortfall / surplus in power. Honda calls it eCVT which is technically correct but causes many people to think that there's still a mechanical CVT gearbox under the bonnet.

The Jazz pricing might become more competitive. I recall that there's currently a 10% tariff on vehicles imported from Japan which will disappear when the UK - Japan trade agreement is implemented while, on the other hand, it's currently looking likely that there will soon be a 10% tariff on vehicles imported from Europe.

Thanks for the very detailed reply. It is a Honda, so reliability is pretty much a given.  :) It is complex though.

Ive watched a couple of great Youtube videos, to further aid my understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b8au-uD4KY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6glpZTRT6qE

In the second link, at 3 min 10, Mr Ko Yamamoto from Honda describes the system as complex. But, I understand now how it works. In Hybrid drive mode the ICE works to power the generator, which I have in my mind as being effectively a massive alternator. That makes sense.

We have had our 2013 Jazz manual for just under six months, and it has proved to be such a versatile and reliable vehicle. I expect it will be up for replacement in about 5 years by which time it will have 150,000 miles on it. At that point I expect the current Jazz will probably be in the price range I am prepared to spend on a car, and its reliability proven. That said though, Jazz hold their money so well, and demand is growing.

John Ratsey

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2020, 04:52:06 PM »
There is a comparison test with the new Yaris, Jazz and VW Polo in the latest edition of WhatCar. Interesting reading with the jazz coming out top.
Thanks. I can't find that specific comparison online but this review of the Yaris https://www.whatcar.com/toyota/yaris/hatchback/review/n31 includes some comparisons with the Mk 4 Jazz such as this remark: "If you like to sit farther from the ground and in a more upright position, try the Honda Jazz."
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embee

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2020, 06:41:46 PM »
.... there's no specific comment about the Yaris being a smaller vehicle than the Jazz (but the final photo shows this very effectively). .......
... but to paraphrase the words of Father Ted, one is near, and the other is far far away. The Jazz is in a closer parking bay than the Yaris. It probably is bigger in reality, I haven't checked the dimensions.

John Ratsey

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2020, 08:29:27 PM »
... but to paraphrase the words of Father Ted, one is near, and the other is far far away. The Jazz is in a closer parking bay than the Yaris. It probably is bigger in reality, I haven't checked the dimensions.
Well spotted! I've checked the specs for the Yaris and the normal Jazz (not Crosstar) and the dimensions (mm) are:

Yaris: 3940 long x 1745 wide x 1460 high
Jazz:  4044 long x 1694 wide x 1526 high
Diff:  +104             -51             +66
ie the Mk 4 Jazz is 4" longer, 2" narrower and 2 1/2" higher than the Yaris
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123Drive!

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2020, 10:19:18 PM »
Having seen both new Yaris and Jazz now, I must congratulate both Toyota and Honda for keeping the new model pretty much the same size. Most manufacturer always make the new model bigger...take the new Corsa and 208, they are so much bigger.

jazzaro

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Re: Road test Jazz v Yaris
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2020, 10:33:55 PM »

Thanks for the very detailed reply. It is a Honda, so reliability is pretty much a given.  :) It is complex though.

Ive watched a couple of great Youtube videos, to further aid my understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b8au-uD4KY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6glpZTRT6qE

In the second link, at 3 min 10, Mr Ko Yamamoto from Honda describes the system as complex. But, I understand now how it works. In Hybrid drive mode the ICE works to power the generator, which I have in my mind as being effectively a massive alternator. That makes sense.

We have had our 2013 Jazz manual for just under six months, and it has proved to be such a versatile and reliable vehicle. I expect it will be up for replacement in about 5 years by which time it will have 150,000 miles on it. At that point I expect the current Jazz will probably be in the price range I am prepared to spend on a car, and its reliability proven. That said though, Jazz hold their money so well, and demand is growing.
This also is a good explanation.

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