Would You Buy Another Mk4

[Bristol_Crosstar]

The old folk will happily get a Crosstar whether or not it's targeted at them because the key features tick the right boxes. However, Honda is sensibly trying to appeal to a wider range of potential customers so we end up with features which aren't on our list of priorities. I have to wonder whether Honda's marketing strategy has succeeded.

I have to say my elderly mother (about the same age as the Queen) is not so keen on my Crosstar as it's too high for her to sit on the seat and swivel round as she did on entering my Mk 2! I bought it as I preferred the looks and the potentially softer ride, have no regrets and am happy with my choice. The sub-woofer wasn't a requirement but you can turn it down if you don't want it.

[TiJazz]

I’m 32 and wouldn’t swap my Crosstar for anything right now, but my 65 year old father wouldn’t swap his either...

[Kremmen]

My initial choice was the Crosstar but having investigated further and seen both at the dealers I'm now leaning towards the Jazz.

I've been caught before by dirt and road debris hitting the car sides and rear lower bumper area and mud flaps certainly work. Then looking at the height, and roof rails that I don't need, they would make cleaning slightly harder so I looked more closely at the Jazz.

From what I can tell, the only downsides are the lower quality audio via less speakers, and the slightly softer suspension ?

I need to see the inside materials and see which I prefer, leather or waterproof.

I'm aiming for a Sep reg so I've got a few months leeway.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

My initial choice was the Crosstar but having investigated further and seen both at the dealers I'm now leaning towards the Jazz.

I've been caught before by dirt and road debris hitting the car sides and rear lower bumper area and mud flaps certainly work. Then looking at the height, and roof rails that I don't need, they would make cleaning slightly harder so I looked more closely at the Jazz.

From what I can tell, the only downsides are the lower quality audio via less speakers, and the slightly softer suspension ?

I need to see the inside materials and see which I prefer, leather or waterproof.

I'm aiming for a Sep reg so I've got a few months leeway.

My Crosstar has the "Robust Pack" which has protective panels under the front and rear bumper area, I didn't pay extra for it as it was on the car already, I think it costs around £400 to have it as an extra.

[Steve_M]

The robust pack is just the silver panels added to the front and rear bumpers mainly for styling rather than actual protection.

The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.

[CoolRaoul]

Recently there was a huge fire in the parking building above mine.
Most vehicles have burned.
(fortunately mine had no damage).
That event made me think what I would have chosen if I had to replace my Jazz.
Answer: same choice, just another color maybe.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

The robust pack is just the silver panels added to the front and rear bumpers mainly for styling rather than actual protection.

The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.

I've photographed the rear panel (attached), it's grey on my car, it's a bit more than a decoration but not sure I'd pay £495 for it!

[Kremmen]

The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.

This is an extreme example but the reason why I always fit mudflaps. Purely cosmetic but an option I want:

[peteo48]

Yes. Didn't have mudflaps on my previous car but have them on this one. What a difference they make to keeping the lower body cleaner. (the car not me )

[Sam B]

I have had my Jazz SR Mark 4 for 9 months and am mostly very happy with it. This is my 5th. Jazz, having owned all the previous Marks. With one major exception (see below) this is the best car that I have owned or driven.

The driving experience is exceptionally smooth and pleasant. The ride is comfortable, the power take-up is smooth and seamless, and the power train (either petrol or electric or both) always has enough in reserve and is easy to control. The car is very quiet, especially in EV mode.

I generally drive with the gear selector set to B, as this provides significant engine braking when my foot is off the "go" pedal, such that it is less often necessary to use the "stop" pedal and consequently I can drive for the most part in one-pedal mode. This also helps to reduce wear on the braking system.

Average fuel economy so far is 57.5 mpg (calculated from actual purchases of petrol). Fuel economy seems to be better in warm dry weather and at speeds below 60 mph.

Now for the negative comments. I have learnt to disable the LKAS, but the RDMS cannot be permanently deactivated, only at the start of each journey by making 5 or more button presses (the number seeming to be variable). The RDMS is a positive threat to life and limb - it is a danger that should be avoided at all costs. When one is driving on narrow roads (which includes many of those in the UK), the RDMS will come into action unpredictably and will pull the car into the path of oncoming traffic. The only way of saving oneself from injury or worse is to grab the steering wheel immediately and firmly, so as to counteract the malign efforts of the RDMS. When one is driving on single-track roads such as found in remote areas, the RDMS often pulls the car to the offside.

I have had the RDMS checked by my local Honda dealer, who found nothing wrong. I have written several letters to Honda UK, the president of which eventually replied to me to say that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, even though all that I asked for was an option on the central screen to turn the RDMS off permanently - this would be a simple software mod which could be provided at minimal cost to customers who don't want the RDMS and feel threatened by it.

I have discussed the RDMS with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, who advised me to fit a dashcam and collect video evidence about the effects of the RDMS. I now have a dashcam but am very reluctant to allow one of these RDMS events to occur and to put myself and my passengers and other road users in danger.

So my overall verdict is that the Jazz Mark 4 scores 90% but this is not a pass mark. I will never again buy any car with RDMS or similar fitted to it unless it can be deactivated permanently. I live in hope that Honda will release a software mod to bring the score up to 100%.

[John Ratsey]

Many others here also find the RDMS to be a nuisance, if not a hazard. The underlying problem is that the presence of this system helps get the Jazz top marks in the Euro safety testing (NCAP) and any feature used in the safety testing isn't allowed to be permanently disabled. It appears that Honda failed to do sufficient testing of this system in normal UK driving conditions to be able to figure out how to tell the difference between an inattentive driver about to go off the road and an attentive driver intentionally going close to the edge of the road to, for example, make space for an oncoming vehicle or avoid a pothole or just take a straighter route down an empty wiggly road.

You shouldn't be needing five button presses to deactivate RDMS. It's one press on the safety systems selector shortcut button in the little switch cluster near the driver's door followed by a push on the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.

I expect that the next version of the Jazz (or possibly any major refresh) will have a more intelligent version of RDMS. While Honda's response to complaints is "it's fine and working as designed" there appears to be a system for logging the features which are annoying customers. When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" (I had the HR-V with a touch panel for these controls and it was a safety hazard because it was necessary to look at it to use it).

[culzean]

Many others here also find the RDMS to be a nuisance, if not a hazard. The underlying problem is that the presence of this system helps get the Jazz top marks in the Euro safety testing (NCAP) and any feature used in the safety testing isn't allowed to be permanently disabled. It appears that Honda failed to do sufficient testing of this system in normal UK driving conditions to be able to figure out how to tell the difference between an inattentive driver about to go off the road and an attentive driver intentionally going close to the edge of the road to, for example, make space for an oncoming vehicle or avoid a pothole or just take a straighter route down an empty wiggly road.

You shouldn't be needing five button presses to deactivate RDMS. It's one press on the safety systems selector shortcut button in the little switch cluster near the driver's door followed by a push on the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.

I expect that the next version of the Jazz (or possibly any major refresh) will have a more intelligent version of RDMS. While Honda's response to complaints is "it's fine and working as designed" there appears to be a system for logging the features which are annoying customers. When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" (I had the HR-V with a touch panel for these controls and it was a safety hazard because it was necessary to look at it to use it).

Have they fitted 'pothole detection and avoidance' to any vehicle yet,  the biggest road safety problem is drivers having to look out for potholes when they should be looking for other vehicles.... you can lose a wheel down some of the ones by us. Worst thing is on country roads that you sometimes have to choose between hitting the pothole or hitting a vehicle coming the other way......

[embee]

.....When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" ......

When I went to view/try the mk3 which I have now, I commented to the sales chap that I specifically wanted a car with "proper knobs" for heating/ventilation and also definitely NOT keyless entry/start stuff. He smiled (I think it was understanding, it could have been pity on an old fogey, or even wind I suppose). The mk3 ticked those specific boxes, happy days.
These owner comments on the RDMS system are extremely useful, it's the sort of stuff you don't really want to have to find out for yourself having committed to a new car with it.

[Kenneve]

I agree with virtually everything that Sam B says.

LKAS can be permanently disabled (page 471 of the on-line manual), but RDMS is downright dangerous on narrow country roads in the UK. I just don't understand how Honda, or the NCAP people can think any different.
We really do need a software upgrade, to allow permanent disabling of RDMS.

I just wonder what would happen in an accident, where it could be proved that RDMS, had steered the car into another?

I'm a little surprised at the low fuel consumption figures that he is getting, I'm currently showing 67.4MPG over 1160 Miles, driving in 'B' mode where possible, only using 'D' mode where ACC is required.

Still, at the end of the day, I still think this is the best Jazz so far, from the 6, I've owned

[Sam B]

It takes at least 5 button presses on my Jazz to deactivate the RDMS at the start of each journey. These are:
(wait for "ready to drive" to appear on the dashboard)
1 Press the safety support switch on the RHS.
2 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
3 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
4 Press the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.
5 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
Sometimes even more presses are needed if this procedure is rushed.
It may be that fewer presses are needed when the car is in motion, but I prefer to get this sorted before moving off. I would prefer it even more if Honda made it unnecessary!