Author Topic: Would You Buy Another Mk4  (Read 36056 times)

NoelM

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #255 on: June 03, 2021, 06:57:23 PM »
Only two presses. If you give it about 3 seconds

Expatman

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #256 on: June 03, 2021, 07:34:53 PM »
Only two presses. If you give it about 3 seconds
Which 3 presses?

NoelM

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #257 on: June 04, 2021, 12:46:14 AM »
Before moving off. Press safety support button
Look at display. Press centre button (to switch off) wait a few seconds display changes. Press home.

DCrofter

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #258 on: June 05, 2021, 10:57:01 AM »
I have had my Jazz SR Mark 4 for 9 months and am mostly very happy with it. This is my 5th. Jazz, having owned all the previous Marks. With one major exception (see below) this is the best car that I have owned or driven.

The driving experience is exceptionally smooth and pleasant. The ride is comfortable, the power take-up is smooth and seamless, and the power train (either petrol or electric or both) always has enough in reserve and is easy to control. The car is very quiet, especially in EV mode.

I generally drive with the gear selector set to B, as this provides significant engine braking when my foot is off the "go" pedal, such that it is less often necessary to use the "stop" pedal and consequently I can drive for the most part in one-pedal mode. This also helps to reduce wear on the braking system.

Average fuel economy so far is 57.5 mpg (calculated from actual purchases of petrol). Fuel economy seems to be better in warm dry weather and at speeds below 60 mph.

Now for the negative comments. I have learnt to disable the LKAS, but the RDMS cannot be permanently deactivated, only at the start of each journey by making 5 or more button presses (the number seeming to be variable). The RDMS is a positive threat to life and limb - it is a danger that should be avoided at all costs. When one is driving on narrow roads (which includes many of those in the UK), the RDMS will come into action unpredictably and will pull the car into the path of oncoming traffic. The only way of saving oneself from injury or worse is to grab the steering wheel immediately and firmly, so as to counteract the malign efforts of the RDMS. When one is driving on single-track roads such as found in remote areas, the RDMS often pulls the car to the offside.

I have had the RDMS checked by my local Honda dealer, who found nothing wrong. I have written several letters to Honda UK, the president of which eventually replied to me to say that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, even though all that I asked for was an option on the central screen to turn the RDMS off permanently - this would be a simple software mod which could be provided at minimal cost to customers who don't want the RDMS and feel threatened by it.

I have discussed the RDMS with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, who advised me to fit a dashcam and collect video evidence about the effects of the RDMS. I now have a dashcam but am very reluctant to allow one of these RDMS events to occur and to put myself and my passengers and other road users in danger.

So my overall verdict is that the Jazz Mark 4 scores 90% but this is not a pass mark. I will never again buy any car with RDMS or similar fitted to it unless it can be deactivated permanently. I live in hope that Honda will release a software mod to bring the score up to 100%.

I have written lengthy reviews elsewhere, but not here.  Whilst most aspects of the car are very positive and I usually achieve mid to high 60's mpg (real from actual refuelling calculations) without hanging around, I find I have the same experiences as Sam B regards the RDMS which I have written about in other publications. I live in an area of Norfolk with many narrow country roads and if I forget to switch RDMS off before starting my journey the car soon starts bleeping at me and tugging at the steering wheel, even though it is on the least sensitive setting, just because there are hedges at the edge of the road. I have had odd occasions where it will try and pull me away from the hedge and towards oncoming vehicles. The system works well (in fact I cannot remember it operating) on normal carriageways. It should be easier to disable the function and although I think it doesn't have to be permanent disable, it should be a single button push in a location where it can be safely pressed even whilst the car is in motion.

I also, like many it seems, use the B mode in normal driving because of its braking effect, but you can only engage cruise if D is selected. On approaching roundabouts (we do have them as well, lots of them on our only two dual carriageway roads in the county) I drop out of cruise and move the shift to B, but if I then omit to shift back to D on leaving the roundabout and try to re-engage cruise I get a bleep and message telling me to shift back to D so have to start again resulting in a slower getaway. Surely this is software controlled so again why can't cruise work with either braking mode selected on the shift lever?

Question - Do I have to use the B mode to get the best from regenerative braking?  Can anyone tell me when I press the brake pedal does that increase regenerative braking until there comes a point where friction is also required and how far can I press before the disc brakes engage.  The answer to this is key to getting the most efficiency out of regenerative braking - help save the planet and the wallet.

TiJazz

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #259 on: June 05, 2021, 02:03:37 PM »
Re your point about auto shifting to D when ACC is engaged - you’d end up with a mismatch between the drive mode and shifter position, unless the shifter was actuated which would add cost. Cruise doesn’t work in B because the system has only been programmed/certified to use the friction brakes, not the regen.

I’m not sure if the Jazz uses blended braking when the pedal is pressed. I believe it is brake by wire, but I think it is purely friction braking.

nowster

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #260 on: June 05, 2021, 02:24:15 PM »
I’m not sure if the Jazz uses blended braking when the pedal is pressed. I believe it is brake by wire, but I think it is purely friction braking.
If you look at the power mode display you'll notice that for gentle braking the regen is contributing.

Kenneve

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #261 on: June 05, 2021, 05:22:16 PM »
Regeneration contributes to braking all the way down to 0 MPH, but I don’t think the foot brake adds anything extra to the regeneration braking, only the ‘B’ mode does that.
In fact total regeneration braking in a stop, when the brake pedal is used, is reduced, since the energy is being used up by the friction brakes, so leaving less available for regeneration.

E27006

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #262 on: June 05, 2021, 07:39:11 PM »
Just a comment on friction brakes. The most powerful part of a car are the brakes,   the 75 bhp  engine may accelerate the car forwards from zero to 60 mph in 12 seconds, but the brakes will take the car from 60 mph to zero in 4 or 5 seconds. The power those friction brakes  can dissipate is astonishing, they are the equivalent of an engine of several hundred bhp driving the car backwards.

Kremmen

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #263 on: June 06, 2021, 04:20:36 AM »
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
Do it on the IAM test and it's a fail.
Let's be careful out there !

nowster

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #264 on: June 06, 2021, 08:57:00 AM »
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.

My guess is that when you hit the brake pedal the brakes do get used but also the regen is applied too.

Quote from: The manual
When decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.

TiJazz

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #265 on: June 06, 2021, 11:23:02 AM »
I passed my IAM back in 2008 - I wonder how it’s changed since with all the new technology. I’d wager not much, as I doubt Roadcraft has much to say about electric and automatic cars.

Kremmen

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #266 on: June 06, 2021, 11:31:34 AM »
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I'm showing my age  :)


Let's be careful out there !

madasafish

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #267 on: June 06, 2021, 01:46:24 PM »
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I'm showing my age  :)

My first car - a 1929 Riley 9 - had no syncromesh and magneto ignition and a fabric body.

So there!

richardfrost

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #268 on: June 06, 2021, 04:20:03 PM »
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
Do it on the IAM test and it's a fail.

No wear and tear on a motor working as a generator though is there. So I think they need to update that rule.

Jazzik

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Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
« Reply #269 on: June 06, 2021, 06:10:36 PM »
My guess is that when you hit the brake pedal the brakes do get used but also the regen is applied too.

Quote from: The manual
When decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.

Regenerative Braking – All Honda hybrid models also feature innovative technology known as regenerative braking. In an effort to recapture energy that’s typically lost during the braking process, these advanced systems are able to store this energy for later use inside the battery. As a matter of fact, this process begins as soon as you lift your foot off of the accelerator — not just when you press the brake pedal!

https://www.germainhondaofbeavercreek.com/how-do-honda-hybrids-work/

So, as soon as you lift your foot off of the accelerator AND when you press the brake pedal. If you only slightly press the brake pedal, the mechanical brakes are not (yet) activated. Only when the brake pedal is depressed more do the mechanical brakes come into effect.
If nothing goes right, go left!

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