Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Derkie54 on November 13, 2020, 06:43:57 PM

Title: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Derkie54 on November 13, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
There must be quite a few Mk4 owners who have had their cars for a while now

Are you happy with your purchase ................would you buy another one ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: chicksee on November 13, 2020, 06:46:14 PM
So far, best car I have had. Mpg is great and very nice smooth ride.
Big plus, the wife thinks so too.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Murdoch on November 13, 2020, 07:12:39 PM
I’ve owned my Jazz Hybrid for a couple of months from brand new & definitely wouldn’t.
Reason being the petrol engine is far too noisy when it kicks in.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve P on November 13, 2020, 07:28:35 PM
I've had mine for around 6 weeks now and would happily buy again.

I don't find the engine noise excessive unless I'm flooring it, when it is very intrusive to be fair. In normal driving I don't notice it at all.

 Apart from that the car has been all I hoped, comfy, economical and with enough gizmos that I'm still finding new features all the time. Should really read the manual I guess.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on November 14, 2020, 12:17:40 PM
This is by far the nicest vehicle to drive that I've ever owned. There's plenty of torque from the electric motor to give good fuss-free acceleration plus there's the economy benefit. However, it's not perfect: I would have liked the back seats to be a bit further forwards to increase the boot space and I reckon that Honda missed a trick by not configuring the electrically-powered aircon to run in reverse as a heat pump.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 14, 2020, 12:44:17 PM
Honda,  like others I suppose, have a history of making small mistakes with the first model year, then making critical tweaks for the second year on.

I've always waited for the second year. I will be looking very seriously at the CrossStar in Feb when my Civic is in for service.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on November 15, 2020, 05:08:23 PM
Definitely would buy again. It’s the smoothest drive I’ve ever had. I say drive I’ve ever had,  most the time I let the jazz drive itself. I do 50 miles a day and 95% of this is in adaptive cruise control with LKAS. I barely need to touch the pedals or the steering wheel, yet I feel more in control than ever before. I enjoy the Apple CarPlay, the ease of use, reliability and features. The windscreen view is one of the clearest, and the car is quiet, but nicely noisy when fully accelerating, to give a comforting feel.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Pine on November 15, 2020, 06:39:04 PM
I am hoping to take an EX or Crosstar for a test drive in the new year.  I do very few motorway journeys but when I do I like to cruise at the limit.  Most of my driving is urban or along country roads however it is very hilly in the immediate area where I live so I am wondering if that is not a good situation for a hybrid. My driving style is relaxed and I am usually light on the throttle.  any advice would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Murdoch on November 15, 2020, 07:08:09 PM
When you take your test drive make sure that you take it on the roads that you will use regularly if that makes sense.

I didn’t to my regret.

The petrol  engine on the Jazz EX that I own as stated in a previous post is far too noisy for me especially going up inclines.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 15, 2020, 07:12:55 PM
Can I ask. What did you drive before the Jazz?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: JazzMusic on November 15, 2020, 07:41:25 PM
3 months for me now, definitly like it, all of it. Would definitly buy again. Fully featured in the Executive version. But would step down on 15'' allows again for a soft ride quality.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Murdoch on November 15, 2020, 07:52:57 PM
Skoda Fabia SEL with the DSG gearbox.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 16, 2020, 03:45:09 AM
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.

DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no

I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Mellorshark on November 16, 2020, 01:48:48 PM
Most of my driving is urban or along country roads however it is very hilly in the immediate area where I live so I am wondering if that is not a good situation for a hybrid. My driving style is relaxed and I am usually light on the throttle.  any advice would be appreciated.

I live in a hilly area and find the mk4 excellent. Much better going uphill than the mk3 jazz.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: gpbeck on November 22, 2020, 12:54:02 PM
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.

DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no

I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.

Latest Jazz does not have a CVT or a DSG or any sort of gearbox at all. It has an electric drive motor intelligently wired to a generator alongside. For marketing reasons Honda call this eCVT. The engine connects to the driveshafts at higher speeds but the ratio is fixed, again no gearbox. The engine revving/gear shifting noises are artificial because people expect them I suppose. So potential to quieten them through software should Honda choose. I would say our engine noises are not intrusive at all.

I think the drive is fantastic, and good flat handling and roadholding. My previous drive was an Audi S3, resulting in a dislocated liver on any road hump.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 22, 2020, 01:07:33 PM
Latest Jazz does not have a CVT or a DSG or any sort of gearbox at all. It has an electric drive motor intelligently wired to a generator alongside. For marketing reasons Honda call this eCVT. The engine connects to the driveshafts at higher speeds but the ratio is fixed, again no gearbox.
A fact well known here but not by motoring journalists. Welcome to the forum—plenty knowledgeable Jazz owners here with years of Jazz experience, many owners of the Mk 4.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Foksadure on November 22, 2020, 01:43:46 PM
I think the drive is fantastic, and good flat handling and roadholding. My previous drive was an Audi S3, resulting in a dislocated liver on any road hump.

I like mine 99% so far.
I'm just bothered a tad by the dampening on bumpy streets at low speed, which is not as smooth as my previous ride. Kinda like the whole front axle is wobbling on first impact. Disturbing.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 22, 2020, 01:44:29 PM
Interesting, so the old quirk of CVT over rev doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 22, 2020, 02:01:10 PM
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.
16-inch rims always make for a rougher ride, on some cars worse than others.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on November 22, 2020, 03:14:53 PM
Interesting, so the old quirk of CVT over rev doesn't happen.
The engine will rev if you want a sustained supply of power for acceleration or hill climbing and once it's over around 3000 rpm then the engine becomes audible. However, I think a difference from the CVT behaviour is that the engine revs on the eCVT are more constant rather than varying as some  excess / shortfall of power can be accommodated by the battery. A constant engine noise is less obtrusive than one which keeps varying. However, engine noise is an infrequent feature on my journeys - most trips are completed without obvious engine noise although I can now detect the sound difference between car running only on battery and using the engine.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Foksadure on November 22, 2020, 03:25:51 PM
16-inch rims always make for a rougher ride, on some cars worse than others.

Yup, the low profile tyres on the regular Jazz sure do not help. The Crosstar may be be more tolerant about this.

I can now detect the sound difference between car running only on battery and using the engine.

Except for the EV disappearing from the dashboard indicator, you can tell the engine is on by the little vibrations reaching the wheel. :)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: JazzMusic on November 22, 2020, 04:00:50 PM
I'm just bothered a tad by the dampening on bumpy streets at low speed, which is not as smooth as my previous ride. Kinda like the whole front axle is wobbling on first impact. Disturbing.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.
We bought the Exec for its luxury features but stepped down on the summer allows to 15'' and Michelins. Now with 16'' with winter tyres the bumps are more noticable and I wish I've gone with 15'' in winter too. With 15'' the ride is quite comfortable.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: hotweiss on November 22, 2020, 04:16:47 PM
I think the drive is fantastic, and good flat handling and roadholding. My previous drive was an Audi S3, resulting in a dislocated liver on any road hump.

I like mine 99% so far.
I'm just bothered a tad by the dampening on bumpy streets at low speed, which is not as smooth as my previous ride. Kinda like the whole front axle is wobbling on first impact. Disturbing.
Maybe that's because of the EX 16" inches rims.

That is why I went with the Crosstar. 3 cm of extra dampening. The regular Jazz is made for perfect Japanese roads.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Austriaman on November 26, 2020, 01:52:09 PM
Yes definitely would, echo other comments about comfort, power, seamless driving experience. Mine's a Crosstar, a slightly softer ride I believe. Slight disappointing is lack of traffic data on the satnav, and the need to activate brake auto hold each you drive. But it's a great all-rounder, and if it holds its value as previous models, then that will help offset the high initial price.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 26, 2020, 02:21:09 PM
Traffic data will be TMC RDS which is pants when compared to Garmin digital traffic. That's why I run a standalone Garmin DS61 for the traffic.

Shame that Garmin Inrix digital traffic ends June 2021 and Garmin viaMichelin is the only option from then on via a smartphone link.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Cobb2 on November 26, 2020, 03:28:34 PM
Only had a Crosstar for a month or so now but I chose it for a variety of reasons. Compared to previous Mk2 and Mk3 16 inch low profile tyres, the slightly higher profile 16 inch tyres and apparent longer spring travel do seem to give it a more comfortable ride which I also assumed would be the case with the Mk 4 standard 16 inch tyres and springs.
I also much preferred the body styling, wheel design and option of surf blue compared to the standard Jazz. The sound system is also certainly much better than in the standard Jazz.

There are some disadvantages - obviously higher price, but I was disappointed that it does not include Blind Spot and Cross Traffic monitoring which surely would not have cost much more to include as in the standard Ex. I'm not so worried about not having the heated steering wheel. I also wonder if the textile seat bolster will wear as well as a leather one.

Also of major significance is the fact that driving the new Jazz is a league apart from the Mk3 auto as far as visibility, smoothness, noise, power and economy is concerned.

So overall I have been very pleased with this purchase.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 26, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
I also wonder if the textile seat bolster will wear as well as a leather one.
If its anything like the textile seats in my 14-year-old, 131,000 miles Mk 1 then you have no worries. My driving seat is a bit grubby, but a professional clean and it would be like new.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 26, 2020, 06:04:13 PM
Reading these reports make me more convinced a CrossStar is for me next year. Test drive mid Feb during my Civic annual service.

The only thing I'd like to see is what any owners are doing re a spacesaver as I'd feel vulnerable without one.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Cobb2 on November 26, 2020, 08:57:52 PM
Well Jocko my MK2 and Mk3 textile seats did not really wear at all like yours , but unfortunately my present Crosstar which was a demonstrator with just under 500 miles on it had got fluffing up appearing on the drivers outer bolster. Perhaps as a demonstrator many people had got in and out but surely not as many times as you would over say 50,000 miles. Because of this I had actually asked on this forum a few days ago if anyone else had noticed this problem but at the moment no one has replied. Anyway the good news is that my dealer and Honda have actually agreed that the seat cover should be changed under warranty. Well done Honda.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Cobb2 on November 26, 2020, 09:33:24 PM
Kremmen, there is not an easy way to carry a space saver on this model unless you carry it loose in the boot or tucked behind a rear seat. or even perhaps on a roof rack on the Crosstar.  Feeling a bit like you at the time, I did buy a space saver kit for my Mk3 but luckily did not use it in nearly five years. Also never needed one in the previous Jazz. I did carry a space saver around France behind a front seat once in a Prius. Its true that puncture sealant kits do not always work ( happened once to me with a courtesy car) but I do not think you need to feel vulnerable because of no spare. You might be more vulnerable trying to change a wheel on a busy road or certainly on a so called "Smart "motorway
It is usually safer to use a breakdown service where they will either have a universal space saver or take the car on a trailer. However, if you are worried about needing to repair a tyre yourself you can get a DIY temporary rubber plug tyre repair kit for around £10 ( eg Euro car parts ) which may or may not work better than the sealant.  Alternatively, carry the spare wheel or full wheel as suggested or look for a set of run flat tyres which might be expensive, if available, and probably would effect the ride of the car. I don't think you should let the fact that a car does not have a spare stop you buying a particular car, although I can see it might be more of a problem if you were driving in very remote areas. Perhaps it is just on that sort of occasion when you could carry a spare in one of the places I've suggested.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 26, 2020, 10:44:01 PM
After 14 years the spare on my Mk 1 looks like it has never been on the car. I have never had it out to see if the paint around the bolt holes shows any wear on the rear. The tools are still sealed in the bag in which Honda supplied them.
Regarding Runflat tyres. I was telling my brother I had bought four tyres. He said he bought four tyres for his BMW. They are Runflat tyres, and they cost him £280 per tyre!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on November 27, 2020, 04:57:40 AM
I too have never had a puncture in about 20 years and my spacesavers have never been used. My last one though, on a Xantia destroyed the tyre and gunk wouldn't have worked.

My main journey is the M4 from J3 to 10 which is going to be a smart motorway soon so as you say, probably safer to leap over the barrier and wait.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on November 27, 2020, 07:10:10 AM
I would never try and change a tyre on the hard shoulder. In fact, it is heavily frowned upon by the highway guys and by the police.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on November 27, 2020, 03:37:46 PM
My main journey is the M4 from J3 to 10 which is going to be a smart motorway soon so as you say, probably safer to leap over the barrier and wait.

Almost certainly, smart motorways are deadly. I'm with Jocko in this one.

As for hard shoulders, if you absolutely insist on changing a wheel, you should contact the control centre on an emergency phone first... if they deem it necessary, and one is available, they may send a Highways traffic officer to you for protection.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Downsizer on November 27, 2020, 04:37:05 PM
It seems as though the mobile phone, together with more robust tyres, have eliminated the need to carry a spare. However, this would be a problem in a remote area without a phone signal.


Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on November 27, 2020, 04:40:58 PM
The TPMS should provide warning of a slowish puncture which the gunk should be able to fix but if it's very slow then it could be a matter of adding some air and heading for a tyre repair place. If the TPMS gives little or no warning of a puncture then I doubt if the gunk will be able to seal it. For many years I've carried a spare in case of a puncture in the middle of nowhere where's there's no phone signal. However, rural mobile phone coverage has progressively improved. While I would first try using my mobile to call HondaCare, I think that it's possible to use the built-in Honda connected services to call for help (I need to re-read the book) which might be advantageous as the eSIM will probably use the best of whatever phone signals it can find whereas my phone is stuck with one network. Otherwise it'll be necessary to walk up a hill in search of a signal.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on November 27, 2020, 08:37:16 PM
the eSIM will probably use the best of whatever phone signals it can find whereas my phone is stuck with one network. Otherwise it'll be necessary to walk up a hill in search of a signal.

In case of real emergencies, it's also worth remembering that your phone will automatically route any call to emergency services (999/112) via any available network, regardless of which network you are on - or indeed will work without any sim in the phone at all.

I'll say it before anyone else does, I don't think they'll come out for flat tyres  ;D
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: GoJazzGo on December 04, 2020, 09:55:31 AM
Love every aspect of it.

Mostly I love the electric torque takeoff from start.

Dynamic cruise and lane control is brilliant.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: chicksee on December 04, 2020, 11:42:16 AM
Have to say after 4 months of having the Crosstar I look forward to driving again, long time since I’ve enjoyed driving as much. Loving it so far.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 04, 2020, 11:56:27 AM
Only just over 2 months to go for a CrossStar test drive. From these posts though, looking good.

Wonder if there will be a MY21 change list. They always change things in year 2 from owner and franchise reports.

I waited for a MY13 Civic because the MY12, first release year, had no DAB and the iMid had a bug. You could only rotate round the iMid options/screens when stationary and handbrake on.
The MY13 fix, that couldn't  be retro fixed, allowed rotating round tank range, A and B trips and average MPG from a steering wheel button.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 17, 2020, 09:58:32 AM
In the Crosstar, what do they mean by interior soft touch mesh as opposed to the Jazz soft touch leather ?

Which bits are mesh and what does it look like ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on December 17, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
These areas on the dash - on the Crosstar the material is a bit like the material that's on an alexa speaker and on Jazz it is like a soft leather.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on December 17, 2020, 10:58:18 AM
Close up of the material.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 17, 2020, 12:25:22 PM
Thanks

I think I prefer the Crosstar darker material so it's looking good for next year ..... Crosstar:

Softer suspension
Better audio

Still wondering why no models include auto dimming mirror and the HRV style dipping passenger mirror on reverse. 2 quality touches missed.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on December 17, 2020, 01:57:18 PM
I found a better picture of the Crosstar dash material, you can see the texture.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 17, 2020, 02:24:43 PM
Looks OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 21, 2020, 12:00:21 PM
I know I'll find out in due course but does the new Jazz CVT allow 'creep' like a standard auto ?

I do like to reverse into the garage on the brake pedal.....slowly does it ........
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Mellorshark on December 21, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
I have crept up my drive in reverse. I think you may need an initial touch on the accelerator to get it moving.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on December 28, 2020, 05:44:07 PM
It’ll creep by default. You only need to apply throttle when the parking brake is engaged - at which point it’ll disengage and start to creep.

On topic, I would absolutely buy another one - as long as it’s eHEV or PHEV. Hopefully not for a while yet, though!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 28, 2020, 06:14:30 PM
Thanks

I'll find out on the test drive but I don't want to go down the same road as my 2007 iShift. That didn't 'creep' but used to reverse me down my driveway at some speed, with no throttle, because the clutch was fully engaged.

To slow it down you press the brake, but, what the iShift did was fully disconnect drive so you stopped. Then pressing the throttle to get going again, no matter how gentle, and off it went, too fast.

My neighbours commented I was kangarooing into my garage. Start stop start stop. Worst gearbox I've ever used.

With a torque converter auto there is no need to press the throttle at all, just control the reversing speed with the brake pedal.

I'm hoping the Honda CVT is closer to a torque converter as slow speed than an 'automated manual'
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on December 28, 2020, 06:45:17 PM
It’s exactly like a normal auto. All electric cars tend to behave in this way - remember the Honda is electric drive, and the engine is simply a generator. The CVT is never linked to the wheels.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Foksadure on December 30, 2020, 10:43:02 PM
The CVT is never linked to the wheels.

The car would hardly move then. :D

If you meant the ICE, it seems it is sometimes powering the front axle.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12624.msg90600#msg90600

But most of the time, the car feels like an EV, which is just brilliant IMHO.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on December 31, 2020, 02:17:04 PM
The electric motor is linked to the wheels - the CVT for the engine is linked to the generator.

But yes, the ICE is clutched in as a fixed ratio at high speed.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Foksadure on January 02, 2021, 09:16:13 PM
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.

The e:HEV is basically a petrol powered EV.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on January 03, 2021, 12:32:01 AM
Yup - that’s why I have one!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 03, 2021, 04:31:28 AM
Looking forward to a Crosstar test drive next month then I'll take it from there.

I love my 9G Civic but it's 8 next month and I wonder about the headunit parts given that my Alpine unit was discontinued in 2015. It's only done 24k, has zero problems but a downsize and new car is tempting.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on January 03, 2021, 12:31:57 PM
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.
See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on January 03, 2021, 01:21:47 PM
https://honda-tech.com/articles/honda-formula-1-tech-boosts-power-efficiency-in-the-all-new-jazz/
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on January 03, 2021, 04:47:46 PM
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.
See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works.

Thanks for this John. Really fascinating. Watched the whole thing, which is unusual for me. Often I would get bored and switch off.

The one burning question for me after watching this is how the wiring works. With both motors spinning in that same axis, how are the cables connected for power in and out? It seems like the whole thing is spinning and there are no stationary parts to attach to.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on January 03, 2021, 05:05:18 PM
But since there is no real CVT, it's all fixed ratio and managed through a clever use of clutch, be it mechanical or electrical.
See this for an excellent demonstration of how the eCVT works.

Thanks for this John. Really fascinating. Watched the whole thing, which is unusual for me. Often I would get bored and switch off.

The one burning question for me after watching this is how the wiring works. With both motors spinning in that same axis, how are the cables connected for power in and out? It seems like the whole thing is spinning and there are no stationary parts to attach to.

There is no wiring to the moving part of the motor ( the rotor ) which can either be permanent magnets or the magnetic field is taken from the stator windings ( fixed ) as in an induction motor ( where the magnetism is 'induced' into stator of iron laminations by a aluminium 'squirrel cage'
That carries the induced magnetising current ).  The presenter did show the stator windings for the drive motor early in the video ( 6 min 20 sec ),  within an aluminium casting that bolted onto the casing of the drive, the stator windings for the generator would be in another aluminium casting bolted onto top of drive casing.

In Honda case the rotors are permanent magnet type. With a 3 phase winding in the stator,  three seperate windings where the voltage / current flows are 120 degrees out of phase to produce a rotating magnetic field that the stator magnets will follow.  The generator bit is like the alternator in a normal car but bigger ( and the alternator on a car has a wound rotor with slipring electrical supply, to vary the output power ), the rotating permanent magnets induce current in the stationary windings...again probably 3 phase which is turned into direct current for the battery or drive motor inverter by the generating inverters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor

Attached is a PDF with various motor designs

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 03, 2021, 05:46:45 PM
 I'll take your word for it,  as long as when I press the loud pedal .......... :)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 03, 2021, 06:28:40 PM
Just watched the e-CVT video. Superb. As an engineer myself, I can really appreciate how clearly he put the whole thing across. I'll need to look out for more of his stuff.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: MartinJG on January 03, 2021, 07:44:50 PM
Interesting. I knew an engineer who worked in the USA more than twenty years ago and wryly pointed out that back then it was a highly respected profession compared with the UK where the attitude was that engineers were misfits. Far better studying a completely useless PPE degree where you were guaranteed a job somewhere by someone to do something completely unproductive. Things may well have changed 'back in the USSA'.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: stiggysawdust on January 10, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
 I would not buy again.
Main reason is that only the drivers seat is height adjustable and I did not realise the passenger seat is not. As we need the extra height for both seats as they were in the HRV, this would have been a deal breaker. Very annoyed when I found out that it was not adjustable as it is very hard to get in and out of the car when you are getting on a bit.
Honda's penny pinching strikes elsewhere also.
Cheap and nasty plastic wheel trims covering cheap looking alloy wheels.
No auto dimming rear-view interior mirror.
Passenger mirror does not dip when reversing.
All the above were supplied in our 5 year old HRV EX but not in our brand new Jazz i-mmd EX.
If you want a decent light in the boot, Honda want £50 for an LED. All it needs is a change of bulb to LED. Why this is necessary when all other lights on the vehicle are LED, I'll never know.
Contrary to advertising information. it should have a rear seat arm rest and a tonneau. but they don't seem to exist.
I realise that there is always a need to compromise but I expected an EX Jazz to have  at least most of the same accessories as a 5 year old HRV.
I still think it is a lovely car to drive but can't help thinking I have made an expensive mistake.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Cobb2 on January 10, 2021, 11:20:21 PM
I agree with you Stiggy that there is some penny pinching and there are always comprises but an auto dim mirror and a dipping passenger mirror can be overcome manually. Perhaps a low passenger seat can be overcome with a cushion of some sort and the wheels which are a bit strange ,I agree, could have been upgraded for a different design but at a significant cost. In fact one of several reasons why I chose a Crosstar was because of the wheels as well as several other factors but was disappointed it did not have the rear traffic warning and heated steering wheel as on the standard EX. I'm not up with all the specs on your previous HRV but I guess there are several things in your new car that were not on that, but most of all I suspect the drive and the economy are significantly better. So maybe you have not made an expensive mistake.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 11, 2021, 06:55:16 AM
I have issues with accessing cars (yesterday I parked alongside a high kerb and I was almost lying on my back trying to get back in). I would never buy a car without checking how easy it is to access and if my other half, and regular passenger, had problems I think I would make sure she could get in and out of the passenger seat with ease before buying.
Your HR-V's other niceties had that the new Jazz/Crosstar hasn't should have been checked on a first look or at least by checking the brochure.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: stiggysawdust on January 12, 2021, 08:44:16 PM
I have issues with accessing cars (yesterday I parked alongside a high kerb and I was almost lying on my back trying to get back in). I would never buy a car without checking how easy it is to access and if my other half, and regular passenger, had problems I think I would make sure she could get in and out of the passenger seat with ease before buying.
Your HR-V's other niceties had that the new Jazz/Crosstar hasn't should have been checked on a first look or at least by checking the brochure.

The long list of what the Jazz has makes it difficult to notice what is missing either by looking at a brochure or during a test drive unless are prepared to spend a long time checking for things that I expect to be included. Losing some of the things that were on my 5 year old HRV feels like I have gone back in time.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 12, 2021, 10:08:57 PM
Now, I won't buy a new guitar, a TV, or phone, without a half hour or so searching Google for info. I would certainly spend a day or two before spending £20K+ on a car.
The Jazz brochure has two pages with all the specs of what you get and what model you get it on.

(https://i.imgur.com/55RVsbo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b7FjEhl.jpg)

I have also downloaded the manual for the Jazz/Crosstar as well as the Honda e and MG5, all of which are on my radar.
It is hardly an onerous task.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 13, 2021, 05:13:17 AM
I'm also looking more carefully at what is missing.

As already posted I also find it hard to fathom why the top of the range Jazz has a manual dipping mirror.

Given Covid I think I'll just look at them next month and delay the test drive until the summer. Assuming that showroom access is still available.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on January 13, 2021, 11:22:50 AM
I had auto dimming mirror on my 13 year old Peugeot 207. I can’t say that I really miss this on my jazz. There are more than enough stand out features that make up for it. The only thing that I don’t like at the moment is that making trips in this weather the engine is constantly running. Other than the fuel economy, I don’t like that the battery goes to full charge and then keeps charging for the whole drive. This surely is bad for the battery and will reduce lifetime performance. I find myself hard accelerating to use some of the battery and then turning heating off. Not ideal for fuel economy or comfort.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on January 13, 2021, 02:54:27 PM
It won’t try and charge the battery when full. In D there is very little regen anyway.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on January 13, 2021, 03:57:59 PM
It won’t try and charge the battery when full. In D there is very little regen anyway.
That’s what I thought but the graphic still kept showing the green lines going into the battery. If I accelerated hard and the battery went down by a bar, the next braking or rolling I did put it back to full. I don’t even charge my phone past 80%, so a bit worrying.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on January 13, 2021, 04:48:20 PM
It won’t try and charge the battery when full. In D there is very little regen anyway.
That’s what I thought but the graphic still kept showing the green lines going into the battery. If I accelerated hard and the battery went down by a bar, the next braking or rolling I did put it back to full. I don’t even charge my phone past 80%, so a bit worrying.
I think you are overthinking this. You should not have to actively manage the charge in your battery - in your car or your phone. They have systems built in to do that themselves. On your vehicle, the green lines going in to your battery when on full charge will most likely just be to indicate flow direction rather than tell you there is actual charging going on. My Toyota is exactly the same. Just let the car do it's thing and concentrate on driving is my mantra.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 13, 2021, 04:52:40 PM
I think, in line with other electric vehicle manufacturers, 100% on the gauge will be 80% at the battery.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John A on January 13, 2021, 04:57:20 PM
Had a Jazz loan car while my Mk 3 CVT was in for it's MOT. Only did about 30 miles but some of that was in town, some on a dual carriageway. Drove just like my Jazz except that if you floored the pedal it did accelerate much better and having it in B was really useful as the regen braking was sufficient in light traffic.

A nice car to drive, but, on a financial point I can see the point of part-exing my 2016 car for the Mk4, Maybe in a few years time when ex PCP ones come on the market the financial costs will seem better to me.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Downsizer on January 13, 2021, 07:15:23 PM
I agree with John A.  Apart from anything else, we would lose the benefit of the £30 road tax on our Mk 3’s.  The fuel saving argument depends on mileage covered, which at the moment is negligible!  I shall keep my Mk 3 for another couple of years - I like to get to around 70,000 before changing.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: stiggysawdust on January 13, 2021, 07:20:23 PM
Now, I won't buy a new guitar, a TV, or phone, without a half hour or so searching Google for info. I would certainly spend a day or two before spending £20K+ on a car.
The Jazz brochure has two pages with all the specs of what you get and what model you get it on.

(https://i.imgur.com/55RVsbo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b7FjEhl.jpg)

I have also downloaded the manual for the Jazz/Crosstar as well as the Honda e and MG5, all of which are on my radar.
It is hardly an onerous task.


I was fully aware of all the detail in the brochure and the online manual and I spent hours and hours trying to decide which make and model of which car to buy but I still missed the fact that the passenger seat is not height adjustable and is set  very low.
So I made a mistake and I have to live with it but the answer to the original question is NO, I would not buy another. End of.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Pine on January 15, 2021, 02:43:07 PM
Just before lockdown I called into my local showroom to look at a Mk4 Jazz.  As soon as my wife sat in it she said it feels as if I am sat on the floor.  So I got in the passenger seat and it does feel excessively low.  Perhaps we have just got used to jacked up seats in a small SUV.  Unfortunately they didn't have a Crosstar in the showroom for comparison.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on January 15, 2021, 03:56:02 PM
Yeah, even the Crosstar feels very low as a passenger compared to my old eZS SUV.

It feels right as a driver though, so I think it is just the seat height adjust that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 15, 2021, 04:10:29 PM
I wonder if a LHD seat could be ordered and fitted as that would be adjustable.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on January 17, 2021, 10:17:21 PM
Why do you think they don’t fit a height adjustable passenger seat? They have the seat from left hand drive versions so why not fit it and make both seats adjustable like almost all manufacturers do. It seems such a silly omission from what is a premium priced car and is just one more reason why potential buyers will think twice - like the non dipping mirror etc. Seems questionable marketing to lose sales for such minor items specially because you cannot even spec it as a paid for add-on.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 18, 2021, 03:56:28 AM
Designed by accountants.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 18, 2021, 07:11:09 AM
I remember reading Arthur Hailey's book "Wheels" (1971), set around the US motor manufacturing industry. In there it was explaining how a penny saved here and a penny saved there, a stiffening ridge removed from a panel, a simpler seat design, over the production lifetime of a model, comes to a great deal of money for the motor manufacturer.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinS on January 18, 2021, 07:35:50 AM
I remember reading Arthur Hailey's book "Wheels" (1971), set around the US motor manufacturing industry. In there it was explaining how a penny saved here and a penny saved there, a stiffening ridge removed from a panel, a simpler seat design, over the production lifetime of a model, comes to a great deal of money for the motor manufacturer.
But if they lose just one sale because of the penny pinching ??
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 18, 2021, 07:37:24 AM
It doesn't matter. They will sell the car to someone else. It is the dealer who feels the pinch.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinB on January 18, 2021, 07:41:52 AM
Why do you think they don’t fit a height adjustable passenger seat? They have the seat from left hand drive versions so why not fit it and make both seats adjustable like almost all manufacturers do. It seems such a silly omission from what is a premium priced car and is just one more reason why potential buyers will think twice - like the non dipping mirror etc. Seems questionable marketing to lose sales for such minor items specially because you cannot even spec it as a paid for add-on.
Manufacturers want you to buy the most expensive car they can sell you because there’s more profit in that. So if they can nudge you towards a different, bigger, model by leaving some toys out of their smaller cars, why wouldn’t they?

Regarding the Jazz generally being lower, most of those comments seem to come from people who have traded-down from taller cars such as SUVs. Of course the seats will be lower, it’s a lower car. We noticed this when switching from our previous Scenic to the Jazz. Soon got used to it though, and the lower profile contributes to the better mpg. Anyone with medical reasons for needing a higher seating position probably shouldn’t be looking at the Jazz.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinS on January 18, 2021, 08:23:37 AM
@ColinB: Of course I can only speak for myself but I previously owned an EX and one of the reasons I bought it was that the passenger seat height was adjustable.  The current range does not offer that, therefore I would look for a different car.

@jocko: Your logic is flawed. The car that I just declined at the dealers needs to be sold to someone else, who would have bought the car in any case.  So Honda/The dealer sell one car instead of two.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on January 18, 2021, 09:25:56 AM
@jocko: Your logic is flawed. The car that I just declined at the dealers needs to be sold to someone else, who would have bought the car in any case.  So Honda/The dealer sell one car instead of two.
The dealer may have lost a sale, but if Honda builds 10,000,000 of the new Jazz they sell 10,000,000 of them. Someone somewhere will buy it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on January 18, 2021, 09:42:18 AM
Over the years I have had 4 Ex Jazz cars and none of them have had an adjustable height passenger seat.
I joined the Jazz scene, having driven Landrover vehicles of various sorts for many years,  so for me, even the drivers seat, with full height adjustment, seemed too low.

My solution was to make up  a set of spacers, with longer fixing bolts, to raise the seat still further.
So, my seat is 25mm higher than normal at the back and 20mm at the front, which for me is much more comfortable.
When I trade in the car, the spacers are removed and transferred to the next car.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinS on January 18, 2021, 11:57:33 AM
@jocko: Your logic is flawed. The car that I just declined at the dealers needs to be sold to someone else, who would have bought the car in any case.  So Honda/The dealer sell one car instead of two.
The dealer may have lost a sale, but if Honda builds 10,000,000 of the new Jazz they sell 10,000,000 of them. Someone somewhere will buy it.
It is market driven.  Look at the extreme, if they produced a car without a passenger seat at all and sales were down, would they still run 10,000,000 off the production line?  I don't think so.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on January 18, 2021, 12:27:36 PM
I wonder if anyone from Honda monitors this forum? If so they must quickly pick up on items that arouse sufficient interest among their customers for them to bother to post about those items. There have been many different posts about non adjustable passenger seat height and non auto dipping mirrors. You might like to hope that Honda would take these views on-board and do something about them in future model years updates. Or am I being too hopeful?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on January 18, 2021, 01:08:46 PM
There is a Honda person, based in Bracknell, who posts here from time to time.

Whether he is in a position to pass on requests I don't know.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on January 18, 2021, 01:38:30 PM
I don’t get the mirrors thing (that’s what the camera and guidance system is for) but the seat would be nice.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinS on January 18, 2021, 02:17:03 PM
I would also question why they fit the "blind spot" warning to the EX but not to the Crosstar.  That is a really handy safety device and not at all intrusive.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on January 18, 2021, 02:17:49 PM
Recertification required due to higher ride height or something?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 03, 2021, 06:43:19 PM
I'll be hopefully giving a Crosstar the once over in a couple of weeks whilst my Civic is in for servicing.

One thing that I now wonder is that  with car sales being the worst for 3 decades is now the right time to buy or would I get one that's been standing around in a field.

I need to find out what changes the MY21 will have and wait a few months for one of them.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 03, 2021, 08:58:12 PM
Stock is widely available, but not hanging around for silly long amounts of time. My one had turned up at the dealer as stock the day before I bought it - I test drove it with the plastic wraps over the wheels etc.

Last summer’s cars (in general, not specific to Honda) had problems with low 12v batteries on delivery - there were lots of cars that had been sat in the docks since March - but cars are moving through docks and dealer networks pretty normally right now so it shouldn’t be an issue
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 04, 2021, 08:42:54 AM
Last summer’s cars (in general, not specific to Honda) had problems with low 12v batteries on delivery - there were lots of cars that had been sat in the docks since March.
That must include my Crosstar which was ex-stock in July 2020. The car has been unused during the lockdowns and the 12V battery appears to self-discharge surprisingly quickly and drops to about 11.8V after 2 weeks. I'm therefore giving it top-up charges to try and keep it healthy. An unhealthy 12V battery won't stop the vehicle from starting as it only acts as an intermediatery between the HV battery (which holds its charge very well) and the 12V accessories.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: MRCLICKCLICK on February 04, 2021, 11:11:35 AM
I found much the same - I know give it a short run to local shops once a week. I did find that if it is very low the display, radio didn't come on for a while - so the internal sensors are working fine - although it did catch me out first time!!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 04, 2021, 12:19:25 PM
The ZS EV I bought last summer had a knackered 12v too (the HV doesn’t charge it when not moving 🙄), but the Jazz i got in December is fine.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 04, 2021, 02:03:18 PM
What ever you do, don't try and jump start a normal car from your 12v in a hybrid. It is technically possible but they are very weedy batteries and if you don't know what you're doing, you could connect to the high voltage side. In my RAV4, bizarrely, the 12v battery is in the boot.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 04, 2021, 08:11:43 PM
HV terminals are bright orange right?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 04, 2021, 09:20:22 PM
From all the cars I have seen, they are orange, but there should be no way you can accidentally connect to, or even touch with a thin screwdriver, any part of the HV system, without substantial disassembly.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 09, 2021, 06:53:27 AM
My Civic is booked in for service next week.

The ploy was to view and test drive a Crosstar whilst waiting.

Got an email yesterday that the showroom is closed and test drives will not be available till restrictions ease. So I won't be able to view one properly.

That's that then for a few months.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 09, 2021, 11:43:09 AM
Pretty sure some franchises are still doing test drive by appointment. People are, by and large, still buying and selling tons of cars every day. Certainly this is true in the leasing world.

No doubt the franchises who just packed up and went home (to milk furlough?  ;) ) will be crying about “external factors” when they go out of business in the near future...  ::)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: stiggysawdust on February 10, 2021, 06:59:22 PM
I don’t get the mirrors thing (that’s what the camera and guidance system is for) but the seat would be nice.

The mirrors thing is that the passenger mirror moves downwards when reverse is selected so you car see the kerb. Helps to protect against kerbing.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 11, 2021, 12:14:11 AM
Ah, makes sense. I haven’t parked against a kerb for about a decade!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 11, 2021, 03:36:38 AM
My Xantias had that auto moving passenger door mirror and it was such a good idea.

Honda put it in one model, so they know how to do it, then totally ignore it on new models.

More cost cutting like no interior auto dimming mirror ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 11, 2021, 12:23:05 PM
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 11, 2021, 01:06:01 PM
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.

But they darken as much as doing it manually! Or at least they do on all the cars I have had with auto dimming mirrors.
It is very strange Honda don’t include it as a safety measure to avoid drivers being blinded by following cars. They fit a multitude of other systems but not something as simple as auto dimming mirrors - why?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 11, 2021, 01:16:03 PM
I agree.

When you look through the back window at night it's misleading as you can see quite clearly, very little dimming. But when you get a dose of headlights behind it dims very dark.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on February 11, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.

But they darken as much as doing it manually! Or at least they do on all the cars I have had with auto dimming mirrors.
It is very strange Honda don’t include it as a safety measure to avoid drivers being blinded by following cars. They fit a multitude of other systems but not something as simple as auto dimming mirrors - why?

Not so hard to avoid being dazzled by the vehicle behind, just move your head a bit, if the vehicle looks like its gonna be there for a while just manually dip the mirror,   if I was driving at night I often just dipped the mirror before setting off.  No auto dip is hardly a deal breaker for most buyers, especially most of the older generation where the Jazz is aimed.  Side mirrors don't dazzle and they are fine for rear view.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 11, 2021, 10:25:41 PM
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.

But they darken as much as doing it manually! Or at least they do on all the cars I have had with auto dimming mirrors.
It is very strange Honda don’t include it as a safety measure to avoid drivers being blinded by following cars. They fit a multitude of other systems but not something as simple as auto dimming mirrors - why?

Not so hard to avoid being dazzled by the vehicle behind, just move your head a bit, if the vehicle looks like its gonna be there for a while just manually dip the mirror,   if I was driving at night I often just dipped the mirror before setting off.  No auto dip is hardly a deal breaker for most buyers, especially most of the older generation where the Jazz is aimed.  Side mirrors don't dazzle and they are fine for rear view.

Agreed, but then neither is Lane Keeping Assistance or any other of the “safety” measures built into the new Honda essential. Sure you can move your head or adjust the mirror manually but if auto-grabbing the steering to keep the car in the lane defined by the electronics is considered a must to gain max 5 star safety rating then I would suggest that auto dimming so avoiding getting the driver blinded by a following car with full-on headlights is also an ‘essential”. Also a lot safer!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 11, 2021, 10:47:13 PM
Eh? When it’s night and you get in your car, flip the mirror. When it’s day and you get in your car, don’t flip the mirror.

You don’t need to touch it while driving.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 12, 2021, 05:20:03 AM
On my older cars without auto dimming I used to have my RVM on permanent dip.

With the advent of DRL, especially high up on Range Rovers and the like, it worked well. No safety issue in seeing where I've been.

No auto dimming is not a deal breaker for me.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Basil on February 12, 2021, 08:00:55 AM
This has probably already been mentioned somewhere but where are these cars built, is it in Japan ?

I think the Mk 1's were built in Japan, the Mk 2's in Swindon, were the Mk 3's built in Mexico ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 12, 2021, 08:37:57 AM
This has probably already been mentioned somewhere but where are these cars built, is it in Japan ?

I think the Mk 1's were built in Japan, the Mk 2's in Swindon, were the Mk 3's built in Mexico ?
The European Jazz Mk 4 is made in Japan as was the Mk 3 (VIN starting "J").

It was the European HR-Vs which were put together in Mexico (VIN starting 3HG) although 2019? MY onwards were also made in Japan in belated reaction to quality problems caused by the Mexican assembly + North American components.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Basil on February 12, 2021, 09:33:54 AM
Ah ok thanks John.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 16, 2021, 12:49:49 PM
The MY21 Jazz EX has tilting passenger mirror on reverse  :D

I couldn't find out whether the Crosstar has it as well as there wasn't one in the showroom with documentation.

I saw one in the carpark and I must say, it's larger than I expected and I liked it. I've registered my interest for when test drives are available.

(https://i.imgur.com/0lFngRp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IRRsCXT.jpg)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on February 16, 2021, 01:49:56 PM
I don’t like auto dimming mirrors, they’re never dark enough.

Not noticed a problem on the Vauxhall, it's the first car I've had with it on. The driver's wing mirror is also auto dimming.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 16, 2021, 01:53:46 PM
The MY21 Jazz EX has tilting passenger mirror on reverse  :D

I couldn't find out whether the Crosstar has it as well as there wasn't one in the showroom with documentation.

I saw one in the carpark and I must say, it's larger than I expected and I liked it. I've registered my interest for when test drives are available.

(https://i.imgur.com/0lFngRp.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IRRsCXT.jpg)

Did it look to have an auto dimming interior mirror?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 16, 2021, 01:59:17 PM
I did look, no auto dimming mirror, still the decades old flappy paddle  :(
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 16, 2021, 02:14:47 PM
Not noticed a problem on the Vauxhall, it's the first car I've had with it on. The driver's wing mirror is also auto dimming.

Did you mean 'dipping'?

What is 'Low speed following'?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 16, 2021, 02:21:52 PM
I did look, no auto dimming mirror, still the decades old flappy paddle  :(

The Jazz/Crosstar is fitted with numerous advanced safety features yet isn’t fitted with such a simple safety item as an auto dipping mirror -- Why? I wonder sometimes what Honda are thinking!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on February 16, 2021, 02:34:52 PM
Not noticed a problem on the Vauxhall, it's the first car I've had with it on. The driver's wing mirror is also auto dimming.

Did you mean 'dipping'?

Not absolutely sure if we're at crossed terminology with dimming/dipping, but my Vaux has a dimming offside wing mirror which works the same as the auto dimming internal rear view mirror. Someone said they didn't like them because they're not dark enough.

it also has the nearside mirror that tilts on selecting reverse, you can turn it off in the menus.

What is 'Low speed following'?

No idea?  ???
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 16, 2021, 05:38:54 PM
The MY21 Jazz EX has tilting passenger mirror on reverse  :D
That's interesting! I see no mention of that feature in the current brochure or on the Honda UK website https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/jazz-hybrid/specification.html .

The May 2020 version of the Jazz brochure indicated there would be a tilting mirror on the SR upwards (annotated extract attached). When I asked my dealer if one or both mirrors would tilt (both helps if trying to fit between two lines in a car park) I was told that the brochure was wrong and the answer was neither. An updated brochure was released in mid-June.

I therefore see two possibilities: (i) Whoever prepared the sticker for the showroom referred to the wrong version of the brochure or (ii) Honda UK did order the 2020 Jazzes from the factory with the tilting mirrors (and the brochure prepared accordingly) but that feature got lost in translation and wasn't fitted. If new stock does have the tilting mirror(s) then Honda UK needs to update the website.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 16, 2021, 05:45:59 PM
The rear view camera has a top-down view for lines 👍
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 16, 2021, 06:25:00 PM
I have considered a typo issue with the reverse mirror function. It did catch the salesman out as well as he was unaware.

That could be along with typo in the 4th line of the flyer  :)

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 16, 2021, 07:13:04 PM
The Jazz/Crosstar is fitted with numerous advanced safety features yet isn’t fitted with such a simple safety item as an auto dipping mirror -- Why? I wonder sometimes what Honda are thinking!
:D To be honest Expatman I understood you had kicked the car into the long grass and "got cold feet about moving to Honda" and "it seems that Honda has decided that drivers of their cars don’t deserve the best tyres. Sadly I think this is a deal breaker for me." Have you changed your mind then? 

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12636.30
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 17, 2021, 07:40:16 AM
Why don't they do mudflaps for the Crosstar ?

Over the years I've realised no flaps = dirt splattered sides and lower rear bumper. I've hit a Crosstar red line and now looking at the Jazz.



Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 17, 2021, 10:16:17 AM
Why don't they do mudflaps for the Crosstar ?

Over the years I've realised no flaps = dirt splattered sides and lower rear bumper. I've hit a Crosstar red line and now looking at the Jazz.
With all that plastic along the bottom of the sides of the Crosstar the non-availability of mudflaps hasn't worried me.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 17, 2021, 10:49:59 AM
It's not a rust/corrosion issue with me but appearance. I've had previous cars without and suffered stone chip damage to the sills and front bottom of the doors. Not to mention the bottom of the rear bumper.

I must have had flaps since the late 80's and never had any issues.

Now that I've seen the latest versions in the flesh I'm doing my research into options and configurations and so far the Crosstar is 2nd place to the Jazz.

I'm in no rush so I'll see how things play out during the coming months.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 17, 2021, 10:53:48 AM
To be honest Expatman I understood you had kicked the car into the long grass and "got cold feet about moving to Honda" and "it seems that Honda has decided that drivers of their cars don’t deserve the best tyres. Sadly I think this is a deal breaker for me." Have you changed your mind then? 

Well the Crosstar is back on my preferred list because AutoExpress recommended the Falken AS210 to me as a good all weather tyre available for the Crosstar. I do like the Crosstar from everything I have read but, of course, I haven’t had chance to drive one so everything is theory at the moment. My other comments about lack of auto dipping mirror etc. are points I would make about any car I was considering and, yes, I do wonder what Honda are thinking by not including it. They have added multiple safety features but omitted the simple auto-dipping rear view mirror to prevent the driver being blinded by following traffic - I know the driver can manually dip the mirror but that goes for many of the safety features like lane keeping assistance etc. I also like to read the views of Crosstar owners who have experience of the vehicle.



Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 17, 2021, 11:04:41 AM
I don’t really understand the fuss about tyres on a Jazz. The difference between cheap and expensive tyres is how quickly they reach the limits of adhesion, and how they behave beyond it.

Neither of which should trouble someone driving a Honda Jazz in a normal way in normal conditions.

I’ve had my share of understeer and oversteer across various cars in various situations, but only when provoked. Since I became older and duller, I haven’t had a single “dynamic” moment - because I’ve stopped looking for them ;)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinB on February 17, 2021, 12:02:23 PM
My other comments about lack of auto dipping mirror etc. are points I would make about any car I was considering and, yes, I do wonder what Honda are thinking by not including it. They have added multiple safety features but omitted the simple auto-dipping rear view mirror to prevent the driver being blinded by following traffic - I know the driver can manually dip the mirror but that goes for many of the safety features like lane keeping assistance etc.

I suspect the answer to that is that the new safety features are not fitted at the whim of the manufacturers, but are mandated by EU regulations. See, for example, here:
https://innovationorigins.com/here-are-the-latest-safety-standards-that-all-new-cars-must-comply-with-as-of-2022/
An auto-dipping mirror is not on the list so manufacturers don't have to fit it. Plus it gives them an opportunity to up-sell by putting the feature on a more expensive model.

Before anyone points out that UK isn't bound by those regs any more, firstly the cars we can buy now were designed before B____t, and secondly manufacturers might not consider it worth producing significantly different cars for the UK market.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 17, 2021, 12:28:06 PM
Why don't they do mudflaps for the Crosstar ?

Why go to the effort of raising the ride height / ground clearance and make an off road capable style, and then mess it up with mud flaps as standard. Most soft roaders don't ship with mud flaps, or if they do, they are very subtly shaped and not much use against road rubble. If they're an issue, your dealer will almost certainly throw them in as a gesture.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 17, 2021, 12:36:28 PM
I don’t really understand the fuss about tyres on a Jazz. The difference between cheap and expensive tyres is how quickly they reach the limits of adhesion, and how they behave beyond it.

Neither of which should trouble someone driving a Honda Jazz in a normal way in normal conditions.

I’ve had my share of understeer and oversteer across various cars in various situations, but only when provoked. Since I became older and duller, I haven’t had a single “dynamic” moment - because I’ve stopped looking for them ;)
Tyres are your only contact point with the road so personally I prefer that contact to be as secure as possible. Last week the roads in North Yorkshire were a mix of salted tarmac, compressed snow and ice. Driving was much safer with tyres designed to handle those conditions. If tyre safety is not important to you then fine - until you slide into someone or something. Or, of course, you don't use your vehicle in those road conditions.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 17, 2021, 01:10:48 PM
Exactly, just don’t use your vehicle in those conditions... nothing short of spikes is going to help you on unexpected ice.

Sliding about is going to happen regardless of tyre type - no tyre in this country is a proper winter tyre built for snow.

You’re going to slide about either way - the money would be better spent on a skid pad day so you can slide around safely.

Personally, last time I checked, I could keep a 500bhp RWD sedan on summer tyres in a straight line on ice.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 17, 2021, 01:38:08 PM
Exactly, just don’t use your vehicle in those conditions... nothing short of spikes is going to help you on unexpected ice.

Sliding about is going to happen regardless of tyre type - no tyre in this country is a proper winter tyre built for snow.

You’re going to slide about either way - the money would be better spent on a skid pad day so you can slide around safely.

Personally, last time I checked, I could keep a 500bhp RWD sedan on summer tyres in a straight line on ice.
If you don't be believe me just have a look at videos with direct comparison between summer and all season or winter tyres driving on snow on the internet. The difference in all normal performance is obvious. It's not a matter of driver skill it's simple physics!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 17, 2021, 03:29:33 PM
I've looked at these videos. The drivers are driving in a manner no sane person would in the conditions. If you want to throw a car about in those conditions, then get winter tyres. Personally I don't.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 17, 2021, 04:22:04 PM
I've looked at these videos. The drivers are driving in a manner no sane person would in the conditions. If you want to throw a car about in those conditions, then get winter tyres. Personally I don't.
You're looking at the wrong videos! Look for the ones by AutoExpress and particularly the braking difference. However, I understand that if you live in a warmer part of the country and don't need to use your car in bad weather then regular summer tyres will suit you fine.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on February 17, 2021, 05:42:58 PM
- no tyre in this country is a proper winter tyre built for snow.

Winter tyres are just that, winter tyres. Tread design and rubber compound are specifically for cold/wet/snow. If you've never driven in those conditions using winter tyres you won't realise just how much better they can be than summer tyres.
In the UK the latest generation of all season tyres are probably an ideal compromise, saves swapping wheels and means they are going to be pretty good in all conditions especially when we get a long drawn out cold/wet period.
I used winter tyres in Europe (mandatory in many countries) but there it tended to go from frozen winter to warm spring in a matter of a couple of weeks reasonably predictably, so swapping when the time was declared wasn't really an issue.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 17, 2021, 06:18:41 PM
Exactly - nobody uses winter tyres in the UK. All season will be useless is snow no matter what brand you have.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 17, 2021, 06:37:13 PM
All season will be useless is snow no matter what brand you have.
I found my all-season tyres excellent in the snow. Maybe not as good as winter tyres but certainly better than summer tyres.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 17, 2021, 07:21:17 PM
All season tyres might not be quite as good as winter tyres but they are vastly, vastly superior to summer tyres. I was taking my wife to hospital in Harrogate and we got caught in a snowstorm. Everything came to a halt on a hill as cars lost grip, I pulled out and drove up past everyone, police were wonderful and helped to keep the lane clear. Drove carefully to the hospital up and down hills without further problems with only a few other vehicles for company. Can't prove it but I assume they had winter or all season tyres as well.
That's when I really understood the value of all season tyres.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 17, 2021, 07:39:59 PM
Exactly - nobody uses winter tyres in the UK. All season will be useless is snow no matter what brand you have.
I’m sorry but that is unfounded nonsense. I have used Winter tyres for years, they are exactly the same tyres as you buy in Europe. Currently I’m on All Season tyres. We had 5 inches of snow and then ice a couple of weeks back. These tyres were amazing compared to the regular tyres they replaced.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 18, 2021, 09:30:28 AM
What is this obsession with tyres? Our Jazz has standard regular round black Michelin ES tyres with about 4mm of tread and they worked just fine in the beast from the east 2. Technique and ability are 1000% more important than tyres. I have never been stuck on snow or ice, and have only ever had standard tyres. I really for the life of me don't understand what all the fuss is about.

In balance, I have never tried all season or winter tyres, so have no point of reference as to the respective advantages. BUT, and it's a big but, as I have yet to get stuck due to having technique and ability why would I change for the 3 days snow we get a year.

When our Jazz tyres wear out, I may look at all season tyres for the better cold weather breaking performance. However, I allow ooodles of braking distance and alter my driving to suit the conditions as I have done over the last 30+yrs.



Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 18, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
In balance, I have never tried all season or winter tyres, so have no point of reference as to the respective advantages. BUT, and it's a big but, as I have yet to get stuck due to having technique and ability why would I change for the 3 days snow we get a year.
I have always had summer tyres and never ended up stuck in the snow. I bought the all-season tyres this time because of the increased rainfall climate change is bringing us. They worked great in the recent snow, but I am sure I would have managed with the summer tyres I had on before. Ability to drive in snow will get you further than no ability and good tyres.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 18, 2021, 10:14:48 AM
In balance, I have never tried all season or winter tyres, so have no point of reference as to the respective advantages. BUT, and it's a big but, as I have yet to get stuck due to having technique and ability why would I change for the 3 days snow we get a year.
I have always had summer tyres and never ended up stuck in the snow. I bought the all-season tyres this time because of the increased rainfall climate change is bringing us. They worked great in the recent snow, but I am sure I would have managed with the summer tyres I had on before. Ability to drive in snow will get you further than no ability and good tyres.
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 18, 2021, 10:58:09 AM
I have just had a read of this. https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/whats-the-best-all-round-tyre/n1161 I would absolutely love to have a bash at finding out for myself the differences referenced in this test between the tyres. Would I alter my opinion if I had the opportunity to do the test? Possibly!  :D Technique is everything though.

I wouldn't have thought that the MK4 is brilliant on snow on ice given the limited control an auto only box gives vs manual. Its extra 208 kg over the MK3 won't help either.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 18, 2021, 11:14:13 AM
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.
Oh sure, I take that on board. I live in Suffolk, we do have a few hills, but not many! :D If I could test summer v all season tyres on a snowy slope with my abilities and see the difference, then I would be happy to alter my opinion. Never profess to know it all, every day is a school day.

Being a biker, tyres are obsessed over on some forums and at bike meets. Ultimately, tyres are extremely important, but technique even more so. The finest rubber in the land will not save you from lack of observation and reading the road. On a bike of couse, getting it wrong will hurt.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on February 18, 2021, 11:16:01 AM
I have just had a read of this. https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/whats-the-best-all-round-tyre/n1161 I would absolutely love to have a bash at finding out for myself the differences referenced in this test between the tyres. Would I alter my opinion if I had the opportunity to do the test? Possibly!  :D Technique is everything though.

I wouldn't have thought that the MK4 is brilliant on snow on ice given the limited control an auto only box gives vs manual. Its extra 208 kg over the MK3 won't help either.

I found my wifes CVT Fiat very good on snow and ice, easy to control the amount of power and very smooth power takeup.  If you feathered the accelerator the box was always looking for highest gear ratio it could pull, try ECO mode on snow and loose surfaces.  The Fiat CVT had a 'magnetic clutch' with magnetic powder between two plates, there was a electrical winding fed by sliprings to create magnetic field that 'stuck the powder together', the current was ramped up and the powder changed from an almost liquid to a solid.

Many conventional auto ( torque converter ) had a 'snow' mode.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on February 18, 2021, 11:29:39 AM
Also, geography comes into it. I challenge anyone to make my journey home in a Jazz on Summer tyres during the conditions we had locally a few weeks back. Generally, the hill is around 1 in 10 but with short, very steep sections with switchbacks.
Oh sure, I take that on board. I live in Suffolk, we do have a few hills, but not many! :D If I could test summer v all season tyres on a snowy slope with my abilities and see the difference, then I would be happy to alter my opinion. Never profess to know it all, every day is a school day.

Being a biker, tyres are obsessed over on some forums and at bike meets. Ultimately, tyres are extremely important, but technique even more so. The finest rubber in the land will not save you from lack of observation and reading the road. On a bike of couse, getting it wrong will hurt.

The best technique in the world will hardly compensate for grip that does not exist. I rode an off road bike with semi scrambler / trials tyres on the road,  and it was proper hairy on tarmac when slightest bit of damp around, back end would squirm around. Braking is more important than pulling away, most driver and riders who are not professionals need all the help they can get,  as 99% of people just hit the brakes and close their eyes. My bike has ABS,  and some people on bike forums pooh-pooh ABS,  but it has saved me a couple of times when having to brake in wet / damp and encountering the 'banding' that councils make on road repairs ( some banding is bigger than others),  instead of wheel locking up and going sideways it released the brakes and kept me shiny side up.  Tyres are even more important on a motorbike than on a 4 wheeler.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 18, 2021, 12:13:42 PM
I found the autos brilliant in the snow—even the rear-wheel-drive Carlton. As soon as slip occurred, it would change up just as you should in a manual. Both the Cavalier and the Volvo had "Snow" mode. Basically did everything in 4th gear. Torque converter makes starting in 4th easy and practical. Above 50 mph, "Snow" mode would drop out.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on February 18, 2021, 01:45:08 PM
I have just had a read of this. https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/whats-the-best-all-round-tyre/n1161 I would absolutely love to have a bash at finding out for myself the differences referenced in this test between the tyres. Would I alter my opinion if I had the opportunity to do the test? Possibly!......
In my experience, definitely. In Austria in winter I've seen someone drive onto a sloping carpark, park the car, get out and promptly fall over because it was so slippery. The car was fine. It was well below freezing.

That's a decent Whatcar write up summarising their findings, within the scope of what they could do at the time I suppose. I'm not sure exactly how they prepared for the tests, the key with winter tyres is that the compound is designed specifically for temps below 7C, and for a proper winter type test they need to have "soaked" the tyres at somewhere round zero for a good few hours to get a real comparison. It was always a good sign that the European winter season was over when you started to hear tyre squeal at the traffic lights and the winter tyres lost traction on warm dry roads. They really aren't very good above 7C, horses for courses.
If the dry/wet tests were at more than 7C the same effects will have been evident, wet/dry braking at 2C might have been more in favour of the winter tyres, but the overall characteristics were clear.
As said, for UK use I'd definitely go for an all-season option. Tyre technology is deceptive and largely hidden, they are round black things after all, but anyone riding bikes will know that up-to-date radial high-silica bike tyres are a totally different animal to bike tyres of say 20yrs ago, the combination of dry-wet grip and excellent wear is truly superb nowadays, albeit at a price (you'll expect to pay north of £100 for any decent bike tyre).
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 18, 2021, 02:51:28 PM
I found the autos brilliant in the snow—even the rear-wheel-drive Carlton. As soon as slip occurred, it would change up just as you should in a manual. Both the Cavalier and the Volvo had "Snow" mode. Basically did everything in 4th gear. Torque converter makes starting in 4th easy and practical. Above 50 mph, "Snow" mode would drop out.

I make such a bold statement about driving auto boxes on snow and ice, yet I haven't actualy done so in person! :D  I base my comments on what I've read over the years stating they are not good in such conditions, and anecdotal evidence from friends. I recall the frustration my mate had in is BMW 330D Auto and his icy drive!  :D

I suppose having done 99+% of my driving in manual, and being in control of the gear used, I would expect to be able to achieve better control. Again, no point of reference, just my perception based on personal experience. 


The best technique in the world will hardly compensate for grip that does not exist. I rode an off road bike with semi scrambler / trials tyres on the road,  and it was proper hairy on tarmac when slightest bit of damp around, back end would squirm around. Braking is more important than pulling away, most driver and riders who are not professionals need all the help they can get,  as 99% of people just hit the brakes and close their eyes. My bike has ABS,  and some people on bike forums pooh-pooh ABS,  but it has saved me a couple of times when having to brake in wet / damp and encountering the 'banding' that councils make on road repairs ( some banding is bigger than others),  instead of wheel locking up and going sideways it released the brakes and kept me shiny side up.  Tyres are even more important on a motorbike than on a 4 wheeler.
The CBF1000 has both linked brakes and ABS, which some folk swear is a recipe for disaster!  :D I've yet to get the ABS to cut in, nor notice the linking affect braking control or performance. Hardly surprising given the couple of thousand fair weather miles I do.

Never ridden off road scrambler tyres on road, but I did once drive a Lada Riva with rubbish tyres on wet roads. I would expect the experience would be broadly similar!  :D

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 18, 2021, 05:04:52 PM
They really aren't very good above 7C, horses for courses.
The temperature here went from 8°C to -10°C then back to 10°C in the course of a week.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on February 18, 2021, 06:00:23 PM
................The CBF1000 has both linked brakes and ABS, which some folk swear is a recipe for disaster!  .............
You always get biased opinions on these things, usually from people who haven't actually lived with them.
I have an NC700 with linked ABS. There are 3 ABS circuits, one for rear only, one for front brake when operated by the rear linked system, and a third for the front only. That must be expensive, which is probably why they dropped the linked system for the NC750 (just 2 circuits).
It works fine.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 18, 2021, 08:31:04 PM
You always get biased opinions on these things, usually from people who haven't actually lived with them.
I have an NC700 with linked ABS. There are 3 ABS circuits, one for rear only, one for front brake when operated by the rear linked system, and a third for the front only. That must be expensive, which is probably why they dropped the linked system for the NC750 (just 2 circuits).
It works fine.
I didn't know there were diffent linked systems. The 'press' gave some bad reviews of the linked system, certainly on the Blackbird reviews, and I think its stuck. Bit like the press say German cars are amazing and everything else is an also ran. Not true! As you say, the linked system works fine and I don't find it intrusive at all. It does make bleeding brakes a little more tricky though. 
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Austriaman on February 21, 2021, 07:13:11 PM
Definitely yes. Mine's a Crosstar, slightly softer ride and higher ground clearance. Comfortable on long journey, quiet and smooth, everything works a treat. Quick and economical, as well. A bit pricey but hopefully will hold its value. Some people complain about the lane keeping system, but most modern cars are piled with tech...
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 21, 2021, 10:42:06 PM
Definitely yes. Mine's a Crosstar, slightly softer ride and higher ground clearance. Comfortable on long journey, quiet and smooth, everything works a treat. Quick and economical, as well. A bit pricey but hopefully will hold its value. Some people complain about the lane keeping system, but most modern cars are piled with tech...

How easy is it to turn the lane keeping system off - some reports I have read suggest it is “dangerous” on country roads where you have to keep close to the edges when passing oncoming traffic because the steering “jerks” you into the path of the oncoming vehicle! Is it that intrusive or is there over exaggeration in those reports?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 22, 2021, 08:40:26 AM
How easy is it to turn the lane keeping system off - some reports I have read suggest it is “dangerous” on country roads where you have to keep close to the edges when passing oncoming traffic because the steering “jerks” you into the path of the oncoming vehicle! Is it that intrusive or is there over exaggeration in those reports?
It's quite easy once you get familiar with the steps: Press one of the buttons to the right of the dashboard to bring the function onto the dashoard display; scroll to disable and then select.

Having a hidden hand turning the steering wheel is very disconcerting. There's both the situation of sometimes needing to get very close to the side of the road but also the most comfortable route along an empty wiggly road is a straight line.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 22, 2021, 08:53:42 AM
I'm going to need to produce a pre-flight checklist.

I know theres some sequence with the pseudo handbrake so you can pull up at traffic lights, etc and not blind the vehicle occupants behind with permanent brake lights whilst you're stopped.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on February 22, 2021, 10:23:55 AM
How easy is it to turn the lane keeping system off - some reports I have read suggest it is “dangerous” on country roads where you have to keep close to the edges when passing oncoming traffic because the steering “jerks” you into the path of the oncoming vehicle! Is it that intrusive or is there over exaggeration in those reports?

Having a hidden hand turning the steering wheel is very disconcerting...

I'm not sure I like the sound of that!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on February 22, 2021, 10:31:53 AM
I'm going to need to produce a pre-flight checklist.

I know theres some sequence with the pseudo handbrake so you can pull up at traffic lights, etc and not blind the vehicle occupants behind with permanent brake lights whilst you're stopped.

This is only if you use brake hold, I normally just flick the normal handbrake on and then it releases itself when you pull away. You can also set the handbrake to come on when you  turn the igniton off, so otherwise you don't need to touch it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 22, 2021, 11:23:06 AM


This is only if you use brake hold, I normally just flick the normal handbrake on and then it releases itself when you pull away. You can also set the handbrake to come on when you  turn the igniton off, so otherwise you don't need to touch it.
[/quote]

Does brake hold come on automatically every time you start the car or do you have to activate it manually? I would have thought that automatic brake hold is far more useful than lane keeping assistance!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 22, 2021, 11:24:59 AM
That sounds like a plan.

I always use my current handbrake and not sit on the footbrake like many. I know some cars like Merc and Lexus make it very hard to apply the 'handbrake' as it's labelled a 'parking brake' and is only really useable when parked as it's not easy or quick to release.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on February 22, 2021, 12:26:27 PM


Does brake hold come on automatically every time you start the car or do you have to activate it manually? I would have thought that automatic brake hold is far more useful than lane keeping assistance!

You activate each journey if you require it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 22, 2021, 02:03:57 PM


Does brake hold come on automatically every time you start the car or do you have to activate it manually? I would have thought that automatic brake hold is far more useful than lane keeping assistance!

You activate each journey if you require it.
So you have to deactivate lane keeping assistance and activate auto brake hold! That seems strange as why wouldn't you want auto brake hold and why would you want lane keeping assistance if you live in the country with narrow roads!!!
How much effort is it to make changes before setting off?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 22, 2021, 03:00:37 PM
I haven't driven one, but if you have to turn brake hold on and you get used to it. Then one day you forget, could you roll back into someone because you forgot ?

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinB on February 22, 2021, 04:23:43 PM
I’m not sure I understand the point of Brake Hold, I’ve never driven a car with it so I’m not really sure what benefit it brings. My habit - acquired through many years of driving - is to apply the handbrake (aka parking brake) whenever I’ve stopped the car and don’t want it to move. Then just release it to drive away; even easier with an electric parking brake, you don’t even have to remember to release it. So what does Brake Hold do for you? Does it just relieve you of the “chore” of having to apply the Parking Brake? If it’s like Hill Start Assist (which I hate because it holds the brake on when you don’t want it to) on the Mk3, then getting into the habit of turning it off sounds like a good idea.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on February 22, 2021, 05:07:00 PM
Regarding lane assist, is it possible to disable it permanently? Or must it be switched Off for every journey?
If it is the latter, then I see that as a PITA. Maybe it’s possible to pull a fuse, so that it is permanently Off?
As others have said it seems to me, that this function can be dangerous in some circumstances.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 22, 2021, 05:19:55 PM
I agree.

The century old tried and tested handbrake can be feathered or used at a pressure required. The electric handbrake must be on or off, no middle ground, so some form of hill start is required. In this case, as I understand, the handbrake releases when you accelerate from a stop.

The other thing for me is that I have full confidence in a cable handbrake because with the electric one you are relying on technology and we all know that technology is not always 100%.

When Ruislip Honda didn't anchor my floormats on my 2009 Civic the drivers mat ran up the pedals and I had to quickly use the  handbrake to stop. Fortunately this was on their forecourt. Flicking a switch may have had me through the wibsccreen.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 22, 2021, 10:13:02 PM
I agree.

The century old tried and tested handbrake can be feathered or used at a pressure required. The electric handbrake must be on or off, no middle ground, so some form of hill start is required. In this case, as I understand, the handbrake releases when you accelerate from a stop.

The other thing for me is that I have full confidence in a cable handbrake because with the electric one you are relying on technology and we all know that technology is not always 100%.

When Ruislip Honda didn't anchor my floormats on my 2009 Civic the drivers mat ran up the pedals and I had to quickly use the  handbrake to stop. Fortunately this was on their forecourt. Flicking a switch may have had me through the wibsccreen.
I think you have to accept that modern technology is infinitely more reliable than “tried and tested” technology! I remember the old technology in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s - unreliable and always needing fixing, service intervals at 3k miles - and the rust.
Like most people of my vintage we are well equipped with rose tinted glasses - but that is what they are - glasses!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on February 23, 2021, 08:26:43 AM
I’m not sure I understand the point of Brake Hold, I’ve never driven a car with it so I’m not really sure what benefit it brings. My habit - acquired through many years of driving - is to apply the handbrake (aka parking brake) whenever I’ve stopped the car and don’t want it to move. Then just release it to drive away; even easier with an electric parking brake, you don’t even have to remember to release it. So what does Brake Hold do for you? Does it just relieve you of the “chore” of having to apply the Parking Brake? If it’s like Hill Start Assist (which I hate because it holds the brake on when you don’t want it to) on the Mk3, then getting into the habit of turning it off sounds like a good idea.
I thought this about brake hold, that I’m so used to using handbrake there is no need. But now, I find myself turning it on every journey. It’s so convenient. Brake to a stop in traffic or at lights, then just press accelerator showing to go. Minimum fuss. It kinda fits in with having auto instead of manual. Less for the driver to do.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on February 23, 2021, 08:48:00 AM
Regarding lane assist, is it possible to disable it permanently? Or must it be switched Off for every journey?
If it is the latter, then I see that as a PITA. Maybe it’s possible to pull a fuse, so that it is permanently Off?
As others have said it seems to me, that this function can be dangerous in some circumstances.
There are actually two separate but related systems: (i) The Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) and (ii) The Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). LKAS is intended to stop people drifting out of traffic lanes and RDMS tries to be even cleverer and detect (a) going off the edge of a road, (b) crossing road markings and (c) driving into an oncoming vehicle. In principle they are a good idea and, no doubt, get extra points in safety assessments (which is why they are enabled by default). The systems are also sensitive to how actively a driver is trying to adjust the steering - drive with a light touch and they are more likely to get excited. They may not turn the steering wheel much, but any movement of the steering wheel is disconcerting (and intended to wake a dozing driver) while there's also the associated squawk from the vehicle.

The systems are generally fine for bigger roads but struggle on minor roads where a pothole avoidance system would be more welcome.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 23, 2021, 08:52:18 AM
With all these systems there should be options.

On
Off
On permanent
Off permanent

But I guess NCAP are ruling this, or should I say 'Euro NCAP' say no more..
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on February 23, 2021, 09:47:36 AM
There are actually two separate but related systems: (i) The Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS) and (ii) The Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). LKAS is intended to stop people drifting out of traffic lanes and RDMS tries to be even cleverer and detect (a) going off the edge of a road, (b) crossing road markings and (c) driving into an oncoming vehicle. In principle they are a good idea and, no doubt, get extra points in safety assessments (which is why they are enabled by default). The systems are also sensitive to how actively a driver is trying to adjust the steering - drive with a light touch and they are more likely to get excited. They may not turn the steering wheel much, but any movement of the steering wheel is disconcerting (and intended to wake a dozing driver) while there's also the associated squawk from the vehicle.

You say these systems are enabled by default.
The thought of having to disable them on every journey, i think would put me off upgrading to a Mk4 vehicle.
Sounds like it is technology for technology's sake!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 23, 2021, 10:35:53 AM
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...

Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 23, 2021, 10:57:32 AM
I agree.

The century old tried and tested handbrake can be feathered or used at a pressure required. The electric handbrake must be on or off, no middle ground, so some form of hill start is required. In this case, as I understand, the handbrake releases when you accelerate from a stop.

The other thing for me is that I have full confidence in a cable handbrake because with the electric one you are relying on technology and we all know that technology is not always 100%.

When Ruislip Honda didn't anchor my floormats on my 2009 Civic the drivers mat ran up the pedals and I had to quickly use the  handbrake to stop. Fortunately this was on their forecourt. Flicking a switch may have had me through the wibsccreen.
Electronic handbrakes (EPB) are pointless. The lever has worked for ever, and is 100% reliable. Adding motors and a switch literaly solved a problem that didnt exist!

Ask any owner of a slightly older car with an EPB how they feel about them! Herr Passat B6 is a case in point. Pointless devices that just add a lot of complication and expenses as any mechanic will tell you.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: JimSh on February 23, 2021, 11:12:58 AM
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...

Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!

WTF do all these initials mean?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on February 23, 2021, 11:17:08 AM
Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!

It can do, its in the owners manual Page 498. Just a process of pulling/holding the handbrake switch.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 23, 2021, 11:53:29 AM
The more I hear you lot talking about all these systems, all of which I have in my 2016 RAV4 Hybrid, I wonder how badly Honda have got the implementation of them, as they all feel natural and 'right' in the Toyota.

Take the handbrake for example. The Toyota has hill start assist, which is great, especially as there are a couple of hill start junctions I have to manoeuvre on 90% of my journeys. But I also have an actual physical handbrake or can put the car in P rather than hold the car on the footbrake and rely on the hill start assist when I lift my foot off the brake to apply power.

The Lane Keeping Assist has a physical button I can just switch it off with and a dash icon to tell me the status.

Makes me wonder now if Honda have over designed their system. Will really need to have a proper list of things to check when I get round to taking test drives later this year.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on February 23, 2021, 12:41:12 PM
....Makes me wonder now if Honda have over designed their system. ....
I agree. Having worked in auto design, albeit many years ago now, I know how engineers can get a bit carried away with stuff. As the old saying goes, just because you can doesn't mean you should. I suspect it's an element of generation trend, the engineers now doing this stuff are from the tech era, they grew up with playstations and PCs and mobiles, so don't really understand the concept of KISS (keep it simple stupid). If there's something I will want to switch on/off regularly, there's nothing better than a good old fashioned switch on the dash, I don't want to be scrolling through menus and find i can't remember whether it's in settings or display or options or ...........
... and I'm from that industry and mildly tech savvy, a lot of folk aren't.
If I can't remember how to alter something, then usually I don't bother.

When I went to view my Jazz I remarked to the sales chap that it was nice to see big round knobs for the heater/ventilation system, .................. he smiled.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 23, 2021, 01:44:47 PM
In the near future all cars will have these gizmos so it's now a case of getting used to them and remember to turn on or off what you do or don't want ..... every time you fire up.

I want my brake lights to turn off if I'm not on the footbrake and I don't want any steering correction or warnings.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 23, 2021, 04:27:20 PM
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...

Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!

Do you mean that LKAS can be disabled permanently but RDMS needs disabling every time you start the car? I thought that they both needed disarming every time the car was started. Welcome clarification and how long it takes to do the disabling.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Downsizer on February 23, 2021, 05:09:03 PM
RDMS is a pain on small roads. LKAS is great because it’s elective, but RDMS needs to be disabled every trip...

Re the handbrake - coming from EVs, I was taken by surprise when selecting P didn’t auto engage the parking brake!

Do you mean that LKAS can be disabled permanently but RDMS needs disabling every time you start the car? I thought that they both needed disarming every time the car was started. Welcome clarification and how long it takes to do the disabling.
According to pages 470 and 482 of the handbook, LKAS has to be switched on each journey if you want it, using a push button.  RDMS is on by default, but can be turned off each journey using another button.  NB - I only have the handbook (digital), not the car!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 23, 2021, 05:26:10 PM
Exactly. LKAS is the motorway “autosteer” lane following, and is switched on when you press the steering wheel icon above a certain speed and the system has identified lines.

RDMS is what everyone else calls lane departure avoidance, except Honda has expanded it to include road edge detection. That can’t be switched off permanently.

Ps. I enabled the auto parking brake - it doesn’t come on when P is selected, but it does automatically come on when power is switched off, so it’s a nice safety net to have.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 23, 2021, 05:41:18 PM
I no longer put my handbrake on in the garage, "P" does me.

I do know from experience that after I wash the car and reverse it into the garage.. If I do put the handbrake on the oxidation on the discs has more than once.locked the brakes on. Need a little bit of throttle to 'snap' them off.

So still being able to park without the handbrake is good.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 23, 2021, 05:53:34 PM
It doesn’t seem to lock the fronts that effectively though. Last time I forgot the Jazz’s parking brake after parking (having literally sold my EV earlier that day), the thing started rolling backwards on a small incline.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 23, 2021, 08:19:05 PM
In the near future all cars will have these gizmos so it's now a case of getting used to them and remember to turn on or off what you do or don't want ..... every time you fire up.

I do like the look of the MK4, and trust Honda to have developed the drivetrain and proven its reliability before releasing it to market. However, it clearly has far too much tech for what I want in a car. It should be 'man and machine in perfect harmony', not 'man faffing about with menus to get some semblance of harmony with machine'!!

As @embee says "KISS (keep it simple stupid)." & "I don't want to be scrolling through menus and find i can't remember whether it's in settings or display or options or.." agreed. Far too complex.




 
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on February 23, 2021, 10:24:10 PM
The safety options such as RDMS are not in the normal menu. There’s a safety button besides the steering wheel and when you press this it will have 2 or 3 options to turn on or off. Very quick and simple. LKAS and traffic sign speed limiter need to be turned on with a button every drive. I’d rather this remembered last setting, but am used to selecting every drive now. All simple though.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 24, 2021, 12:48:49 AM
Can you disable RDMS while keeping AEB active?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on February 24, 2021, 07:43:52 AM
From my understanding AEB can’t be disabled.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 24, 2021, 07:50:35 AM
AEB ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 24, 2021, 08:36:11 AM
AEB ?
Automatic Emergency Brake.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 24, 2021, 09:14:24 AM
Thanks

That's another feature I'm unsure of. A friend has a Civic with this auto braking and he lives down a tree lined street. All goes well until he gets to a 90 degree bend that has a tree straight in front, on the verge, on the corner.

At first, before he tweaked the paraneters, the car braked quite hard as it saw the tree but not the bend. Fortunately it's a narrow street and  he never gets above 15 to 20mph.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on February 24, 2021, 09:33:42 AM
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on February 24, 2021, 09:45:37 AM
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.
;D ;D
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 24, 2021, 09:53:30 AM
As much as I'm looking forward to having all this tech I do need to read up on it all.

One advantage with the Jazz will be being able to ditch my Garmin DS61 and use Google Maps via Android Auto.

Garmin have lost their DAB traffic provider from end June so the only traffic available is via Smartlink and that traffic comes from viaMichelin when I last looked. They are good at new roadworks but hopeless at removing obsolete ones. As a result, especially in London, the buffer fills up with roadworks and you don't always get the 'traffic' reports.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 24, 2021, 11:14:58 AM
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.
I also have this system, but she never learned to drive so I get many false alarms and blame is always attributed to me!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on February 24, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
My Civic has a permanent display on the dash that says "Passenger Airbag" - how does it know ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on February 24, 2021, 12:29:26 PM
@Kremmen I’d imagine it thinks the tree is a person. Earlier systems were quite primitive, and didn’t account for direction of travel.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on February 24, 2021, 12:34:55 PM
I have a similar system in my car. She sits in the front seat and warns me if I get too close to the car in front, if I wander too close to the edge of my lane or if a vehicle is joining from the side. Unfortunately, this system works by default, and I do not have the b@ll$ to switch it off.

I've got one which tries to push a non-existent brake pedal in the passenger foot well. Most disconcerting, but at least I can see who's doing it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on February 24, 2021, 12:41:48 PM
Now now folks - we will have the woke brigade shutting us down if we’re not careful : :P :P
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on February 24, 2021, 01:25:21 PM
My Civic has a permanent display on the dash that says "Passenger Airbag" - how does it know ?
At least it's not 'Passenger windbag!'
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on February 24, 2021, 01:39:24 PM
"Watch the cyclist Richard"  :D

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: SamJazz on March 05, 2021, 10:13:26 PM
How easy is it to adapt to using the eCVT transmission for someone who has only ever used manual transmission. I have a MK3 at the moment which is manual and my two previous Jazz were also manual.
Did it take some time to get used to it, and is it an improvement over the manual transmission.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on March 05, 2021, 11:13:17 PM
I went from MT to electric, and you’ll be wondering why you ever had a manual box. Jazz drives the same as it is essentially EV drive with a petrol generator.

Go pedal goes, stop pedal stops. Instant response and perfectly smooth (because there are no gears - or, in the Jazz, at least none that are physically linked to the wheels).
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 06, 2021, 05:10:48 AM
I was told years sgo that one way to convert to 2 pedals from a lifetime of 3 pedals is to take your left shoe off.

When you 'go for the clutch' it can help remind you you haven't got one.

Then you fall into the debate about 2 feet 2 pedals but I've ben driving autos since 1977 and always only used my right foot for both pedals.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on March 06, 2021, 08:47:21 AM
How easy is it to adapt to using the eCVT transmission for someone who has only ever used manual transmission. I have a MK3 at the moment which is manual and my two previous Jazz were also manual.
I never found it a problem. My first real taste of an auto was in California in 1986. I had a hire car for a fortnight. The issue was quite the reverse. On my final day there, I drove a manual Corvette and tried to stop without using the clutch. I have since had 25 years driving automatics until reverting to my manual Jazz. A retrograde step, I might add.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: madasafish on March 06, 2021, 10:07:06 AM
How easy is it to adapt to using the eCVT transmission for someone who has only ever used manual transmission. I have a MK3 at the moment which is manual and my two previous Jazz were also manual.
Did it take some time to get used to it, and is it an improvement over the manual transmission.
Thanks.

I drive a CVT Mark2 Jazz  - switched from a manual. Took about 5 mins.

I also drive my wife's manual Yaris.. no switch over issues.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on March 06, 2021, 10:46:06 AM
I can’t drive a manual for toffee anymore...
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Downsizer on March 06, 2021, 12:17:03 PM
The first automatic I drove was a colleague’s Granada which had a wide brake pedal. Emergency braking initially resulted in me stamping both feet on this pedal, but fortunately we were wearing sear belts!  I had no problem hanging from a manual Mk2 Jazz to a CVT  Mk3.  My wife was a bit nervous driving it at first, but now can’t understand why we hadn’t changed years ago.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 06, 2021, 12:58:25 PM
They are just so much more comfy. I can have my seat further back not having a clutch to floor.

As I said a while ago, my first auto drive was my bosses Austin 2200 and I took to it like a duck to water and I've been buying autos ever since.

What I won't get is an automated manual like DSG or Powershift. Unreliable and a pig at parking speeds.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on March 06, 2021, 02:23:19 PM
I can’t drive a manual for toffee anymore...

You can get toffee delivered  ;D 
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on March 16, 2021, 11:58:47 AM
Can anyone tell me what the braking effect is like, using the 'B' mode?
Is it equal to changing down a couple of gears when descending a steep hill?

On one of my regular journeys there is 1 in 6 hill, on which I normally flick the paddles on my CVT to change down a couple of 'gears' whilst descending. Engine revs rise to circa 3500rpm, but hold the car back substantially, without any braking being necessary.

Perhaps I'm from the old school and such procedures are not required nowadays?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on March 16, 2021, 02:19:23 PM
Pretty much. B mode is more for ex-EV drivers like me, and folks who are obsessed with efficiency. Try it, if you like it keep it. It’s personal preference.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ndavey1 on March 16, 2021, 02:24:06 PM
Yeah it’s personal preference. I tend to use it on roads with lots of speed humps and roundabouts. Instead of me speeding up and keep braking for them, I just release the throttle so it slows to 10-15mph to go over nicely.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Karoq on March 16, 2021, 08:56:07 PM
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.

DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no

I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
Sorry but I'm afraid I have to disagree with everything you say about DSG. I have had 8 Skodas, Fabia, 3 Yetis, Kodiaq and 3 Karoqs. ALL DSG. Absolutely faultless, not jerky, you can drive it slowly. Superbly easy to park.
All I can assume is that you had a bad one. Pity you didn't  take it up with your dealer.
'Karoq'. Moderator Kodiaq  & Karoq forums.
There are various models of the DSG and one was a bit troublesome at very high mileages.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: foxleys on March 16, 2021, 10:06:58 PM
Not true with a Skoda Octavia Diesel DSG, I had from 2009 for 2 years.

It would hesitate at junctions, sometimes for a few seconds.

This resulted in 2 people rear ending my car.

I will never but a VAG group car again.

Others faults with this car, the radio/cd failed during warranty, I had to wait over a year for a replacement.

Bulbs kept blowing.

The black film on the window switches rubbed off when it was about 18 months old, Skoda didn’t fix.

Plus other faults.
Got rid after very soon. It had only done about 20k miles, when I got rid.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on March 16, 2021, 10:24:40 PM
And you’re sure you didn’t just have auto hold turned on? ;)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on March 16, 2021, 10:26:36 PM
I have to agree with Karoq, I have had 3 Skoda’s with DSG boxes and they have all been excellent. The first was a diesel Octavia (2005) then a Yeti (2012) and finally another Yeti (2017). The DSG boxes got better and better as model and development progressed overall time. I have never found them jerky or hesitant and none of them have had any problems whatsoever. Great vehicles and great customer service from Skoda - I only wish Honda(UK) customer service was half as good!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 17, 2021, 04:50:34 AM
We all have our own likes and dislikes and I accept that the DSG experience has been good for them.

For me, I will never buy any form of automated manual again. I also had some road rage incidents when setting off from lights when it would hesitate and drivers behind thought I was being deliberately awkward taking my foot off the power.

I'm drawn towards the Jazz because according to reports here it has a pseudo torque converter style of slow creeping so I will be able to reverse park in my garage, like I do now, by just applying and releasing the brake pedal.

With the DSG I had, by touching the brake pedal to slow down it cut drive completely and you stopped. To start moving again you had to touch the throttle, which set you off at a speed like taking your foot off the clutch so the speed was engine idle direct drive and far too fast for threading into a garage.

The end result was reverse garage parking was an annoying kangarooing manoevre.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on March 17, 2021, 09:47:55 AM
Removed by Admin

@Karoq VAG DSG issues are very well documented. All manufacturers and cars have their issues for sure, and I am pleased you have had positive experience, but " ALL DSG. Absolutely faultless" ?? 
https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=1ctRYMHoJYr0gQavlpHwBw&q=dsg+problems&oq=+dsg+problems&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIFCAAQkQIyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46BwgAEEcQsANQn_kPWJ_5D2DgjhBoAXACeACAAViIAaoBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz (https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=1ctRYMHoJYr0gQavlpHwBw&q=dsg+problems&oq=+dsg+problems&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAEYADIFCAAQkQIyBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB4yBggAEAcQHjIGCAAQBxAeMgYIABAHEB46BwgAEEcQsANQn_kPWJ_5D2DgjhBoAXACeACAAViIAaoBkgEBMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz)
Next you'll be telling us the CCZA engine is ubreakable, timing chains were VAG's finest hour and EA189 didn't happen!  :D
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on March 18, 2021, 01:43:23 AM
What a weird DSG that is. Every DSG car I’ve driven creeped like an auto.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 18, 2021, 04:16:59 AM
Yes, it did creep exactly as a torque converter.

On the torque converter though I can use the brake pedal to slow the creep as the speed is too fast for tight parking.

On the DSG I had the problem was that touching the brake pedal didn't slow the speed but cut the drive and the car stopped. The only way to reconnect was to press the accelerator.

My DSG was over a decade ago and maybe they have changed the system to not fully cut drive but to be able to slow the creep whilst still maintaining drive.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Westy36 on March 18, 2021, 08:55:58 AM
My main beef with VW, is the appalling way they treat their European customers.

The DSG is a perfect example. Around the world they will put the cars on recall for replacement mechatronic units or to change the oil from synthetic to mineral. Here, they deny the problems and have shady Service Campaigns. If cars are not returned to franchise for servicing, then work never gets done!  >:(

Dieselgate. VW paid more than $7.4 billion to buy back about 350,000 U.S. diesel vehicles. They now have airfields full of the things. In the UK? Denial followed by a 'Trust Building Measure' which means a limited 2yr warranty on the problems they know will follow.  ???

I've owned 4 Skoda and a Golf GTi. I had my MK1 Octi for 12yrs and it was the best car I've owned! However, VAG has proven it can't be trusted anymore. For example, even the very latest Golf Mk8 has been plagued with issues because it was rushed to market with unproven technology. Sadly VAG quality and reliability are history despite the same badge and clever marketing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-storage-idUSKBN1H50GQ

(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/08/23/business/22altwheels-print/merlin_143586180_14a6ff05-1d5b-4eea-9c80-5d3dd82373c7-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp)
 
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Karoq on March 18, 2021, 11:39:20 AM
Not true with a Skoda Octavia Diesel DSG, I had from 2009 for 2 years.

It would hesitate at junctions, sometimes for a few seconds.

This resulted in 2 people rear ending my car.

I will never but a VAG group car again.

Others faults with this car, the radio/cd failed during warranty, I had to wait over a year for a replacement.

Bulbs kept blowing.

The black film on the window switches rubbed off when it was about 18 months old, Skoda didn’t fix.

Plus other faults.
Got rid after very soon. It had only done about 20k miles, when I got rid.
You were obviously VERY unlucky. Out of interest, how long ago was this (year of reg).

Being moderator of both Kodiaq & Karoq forums, I can honestly say that problems are very few and far between on those two models at least. i also had a Fabia 1.2 TSi DSG and have 3 friends with old Fabias that have never had any trouble at all.

 The only reason I may not have another Skoda (or ANY European car, as their ridiculous insistence on fitting HUGE wheels with VERY low aspect tyres is very uncomfortable for my old back and very liable to curbing damage.

The only makes I can think of with 'sensible' rubber are Japanese or Korean. Since I have had 6 Hondas and 2 Mazdas it will most likely be a Crosstar or the new HR-v e: HEV.
Mazda's 'wizard' new engines are rubbish. Good consumption but so slow & no go. They have bought out a pure Ev with a pathetic mileage. So I think that may well not sell.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 18, 2021, 01:03:56 PM
At this moment in time I will not entertain any EU cars because I can see spares becoming either more expensive or difficult to obtain, even if only in the short term. I just don't trust EU trade to be smooth as they've still got the pip with us.

I'm already seeing posts on the Civic forum where items have been ordered from the EU and the courier company needs to charge extra for whatever additional duties that now seem to have crept in.

Also German cars are not as reliable as they used to be looking at the various polls. The Jazz is still up there though, just waiting for rules relaxation so I can test drive one.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Foksadure on March 19, 2021, 07:44:54 AM
I'm already seeing posts on the Civic forum where items have been ordered from the EU and the courier company needs to charge extra for whatever additional duties that now seem to have crept in.

This is how things goes in any country when you buy goods abroad/overseas. No big deal.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 19, 2021, 08:51:47 AM
This was a member who has used the same German online site to buy Civic parts for ages.

No problem,  extra third party charges, until his last order after the Brexit split, when he was asked to pay extra for the delivery.

His final was that he won't be using them again. I think that could be the future for a lot of UK buyers.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Karoq on March 19, 2021, 11:03:52 AM


 "The first question I asked was about the rear view camera in the Crosstar, in the on-line brochure it states that the camera is a £400 extra but if you read through the data it implies it is standard, just asked for clarification and it took 4 e-mails for them to admit the brochure was wrong and the camera was indeed standard! "

I have noticed that theu list EVERYTHING as options on the Crosstar even when, as Kremmen says they turn out to be standard.
I spotted when I first started looking that the Crsstar has a heated steering wheel, which as we all know ....it doesn't| I see now on the online brochure they have corrected that.
I am seriously dis-interested in a banging sound system and would happily swap it for a heated steering wheel.
I am only interested in the Crosstar due to the increased ride height and I prefer the looks. But, at 75, I am NOT Honda's target market.It is hsitory repeating itself. The original HR-v was targeted at the 20 somethings.  7 out of the first 10 my dealer sold went to old f@rts like me, due to the ease on ingress.
Now they have repeated their error in targeting the Crosstar at the younger market.
I spent my working life in marketing and sales with Shell so I do have a grasp of market requirements.

Tyres.
As you say. not a lot of choice, WHY do the Japanese do it? The Mazda Demio was even worse for tyre availability. https://www.tyrecity.co.uk/tyres/search/results/185/60/16
I wouldn't choose either of those to be honest!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sparky Paul on March 19, 2021, 11:40:37 AM
This was a member who has used the same German online site to buy Civic parts for ages.

No problem,  extra third party charges, until his last order after the Brexit split, when he was asked to pay extra for the delivery.

His final was that he won't be using them again. I think that could be the future for a lot of UK buyers.

So long as you use a supplier, or via an online marketplace, that has registered with the HMRC VAT prepayment scheme, you should have no problem buying goods from other EU countries, or indeed anywhere in the world. Autodoc, Aliexpress and eBay UK are all good examples.

Lots of smaller companies that sell direct have simply stopped selling to the UK because of the expense and complexity of the new system, which will of course reduce choice - and it's a disaster for those, like me, who regularly buy from specialist suppliers.

Tyres.
As you say. not a lot of choice, WHY do the Japanese do it? The Mazda Demio was even worse for tyre availability. https://www.tyrecity.co.uk/tyres/search/results/185/60/16
I wouldn't choose either of those to be honest!

I've had two cars in the past for which the only tyre available initially was the OEM supplied type, and they were both European built cars. Usually, this changes, and tyres from other manufacturers soon become available.

However, 185/60 16 are a bit of an oddball here, and certain tyre sizes are more common in other parts of the world for some reason. I guess if you buy a car manufactured in one of those regions, you might have to lump it. Mytyres do list 16 manufacturers for this size, and almost 30 different tyre types - lots of winter tyres. so I guess it's a popular size in some cold places too...

https://www.mytyres.co.uk/rshop/All-tyres/185-60-R16-H
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on March 19, 2021, 11:42:01 AM
When I started my research I too was headed for a Crosstar, mainly for the posted softer ride.

After seeing both at the dealers and looking at the kit, and the lack of in comparison, I changed my preference to the straight Jazz.

It might seem silly to some but I insist on mudflaps to help keep the sides clean and chip free. I also wasn't happy about no undertray given the ride height and cat thefts, and do I really need roof bars.

My only gripe is the fixed exterior/interior colour combinations. I can't have a grey exterior with black interior. Given that I want a black interior, don't want a white exterior, my choice is very limited.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on March 19, 2021, 04:29:02 PM
Reading the launch info on the new HR-V I am looking forward to reading road tests and reviews, and to see what the price is. I don’t really need a big car and want to move to a hybrid as first move towards electric. It sounds like the new HR-V will have the same drive system as the Crosstar, maybe a bit higher rated power so I will wait until I see both before deciding. Depends on size of HR-V, ease of access (wife has dodgy back so needs a car she can slide sideways into and out of with our stooping down or having to climb out!).
If Crosstar offers equally easy level access then smaller size would favour it, if not, then maybe the HR-V would be better. Can’t say till get chance to try both of course.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: E27006 on April 13, 2021, 11:58:42 AM
The one gearbox I will not be getting is DSG. The failure and replacement cost is high. The other thing with DSG is slow speed manoeuvring like parallel parking or reversing into a garage. It's not a smooth manoeuvre but a series of kangaroo hops.

DSG is make or break so you can't drive slowly, pseudo clutch slip. I drove one and it was horrendous. When they were a wet clutch design they were manageable but the later dry clutch models ...... no

I was glad to see Ford have dropped their DSG ala PowerShift as it was proving unreliable and a couple of mass class action lawsuits are pending.
The VW DSG gearbox the subject to a USA "lemon law" class action over serious rate of expensive failures, VW had to reimburse owners for repair costs and provide an extended no quibble warranty, of course our UK  motoring journals  never raise such topics for fear of upsetting the car makers. Ford Powershift  the same, withdrawn and owners offered a buyback with compensation, again a class action revealed Ford engineers documenting the Powershift as  unreliable and not fit for sale, again we never read about such news here, I consider UK car magazines to be simply  simply PR releases for Eu car makers
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: E27006 on April 14, 2021, 09:00:51 AM



I am seriously dis-interested in a banging sound system and would happily swap it for a heated steering wheel.
I am only interested in the Crosstar due to the increased ride height and I prefer the looks. But, at 75, I am NOT Honda's target market.It is hsitory repeating itself. The original HR-v was targeted at the 20 somethings.  7 out of the first 10 my dealer sold went to old f@rts like me, due to the ease on ingress.
Now they have repeated their error in targeting the Crosstar at the younger market.
I spent my working life in marketing and sales with Shell so I do have a grasp of market requirements.


I do not have your expertise in marketing or any in consumer demographics,  I can only think of a basic  reason for Honda to market the Crosstar to the younger generation, the reason, It is easier to sell a young man's car to an old man, than to sell an old man's car to a young man,  am I describing a variation of reverse psychology?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jocko on April 14, 2021, 09:29:57 AM
It is easier to sell a young man's car to an old man, than to sell an old man's car to a young man,
Still don't think I'd buy a Corsa!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on April 14, 2021, 01:52:56 PM
The old folk will happily get a Crosstar whether or not it's targeted at them because the key features tick the right boxes. However, Honda is sensibly trying to appeal to a wider range of potential customers so we end up with features which aren't on our list of priorities. I have to wonder whether Honda's marketing strategy has succeeded.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on April 14, 2021, 06:43:56 PM
The old folk will happily get a Crosstar whether or not it's targeted at them because the key features tick the right boxes. However, Honda is sensibly trying to appeal to a wider range of potential customers so we end up with features which aren't on our list of priorities. I have to wonder whether Honda's marketing strategy has succeeded.
I have to say my elderly mother (about the same age as the Queen) is not so keen on my Crosstar as it's too high for her to sit on the seat and swivel round as she did on entering my Mk 2! I bought it as I preferred the looks and the potentially softer ride, have no regrets and am happy with my choice. The sub-woofer wasn't a requirement but you can turn it down if you don't want it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on April 14, 2021, 08:42:08 PM
I’m 32 and wouldn’t swap my Crosstar for anything right now, but my 65 year old father wouldn’t swap his either...
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 15, 2021, 05:28:04 AM
My initial choice was the Crosstar but having investigated further and seen both at the dealers I'm now leaning towards the Jazz.

I've been caught before by dirt and road debris hitting the car sides and rear lower bumper area and mud flaps certainly work. Then looking at the height, and roof rails that I don't need, they would make cleaning slightly harder so I looked more closely at the Jazz.

From what I can tell, the only downsides are the lower quality audio via less speakers, and the slightly softer suspension ?

I need to see the inside materials and see which I prefer, leather or waterproof.

I'm aiming for a Sep reg so I've got a few months leeway.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on April 15, 2021, 04:49:04 PM
My initial choice was the Crosstar but having investigated further and seen both at the dealers I'm now leaning towards the Jazz.

I've been caught before by dirt and road debris hitting the car sides and rear lower bumper area and mud flaps certainly work. Then looking at the height, and roof rails that I don't need, they would make cleaning slightly harder so I looked more closely at the Jazz.

From what I can tell, the only downsides are the lower quality audio via less speakers, and the slightly softer suspension ?

I need to see the inside materials and see which I prefer, leather or waterproof.

I'm aiming for a Sep reg so I've got a few months leeway.
My Crosstar has the "Robust Pack" which has protective panels under the front and rear bumper area, I didn't pay extra for it as it was on the car already, I think it costs around £400 to have it as an extra.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Steve_M on April 16, 2021, 11:06:21 AM
The robust pack is just the silver panels added to the front and rear bumpers mainly for styling rather than actual protection.

The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: CoolRaoul on April 16, 2021, 03:27:39 PM
Recently there was a huge fire in the parking building above mine.
Most vehicles have burned.
(fortunately mine had no damage).
That event made me think what I would have chosen if I had to replace my Jazz.
Answer: same choice, just another color maybe.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on April 17, 2021, 06:47:16 PM
The robust pack is just the silver panels added to the front and rear bumpers mainly for styling rather than actual protection.

The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.
I've photographed the rear panel (attached), it's grey on my car, it's a bit more than a decoration but not sure I'd pay £495 for it!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 01, 2021, 06:04:15 AM
The Crosstar already has the additional plastic panel protection on the wheel arches and lower door panels that the addition of mudflaps would protect, so thus not need for additional mudflaps.

This is an extreme example but the reason why I always fit mudflaps. Purely cosmetic but an option I want:

(https://i.imgur.com/mwjm3rD.jpg)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: peteo48 on June 01, 2021, 10:57:38 AM
Yes. Didn't have mudflaps on my previous car but have them on this one. What a difference they make to keeping the lower body cleaner. (the car not me ;D)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Sam B on June 03, 2021, 03:19:04 PM
I have had my Jazz SR Mark 4 for 9 months and am mostly very happy with it. This is my 5th. Jazz, having owned all the previous Marks. With one major exception (see below) this is the best car that I have owned or driven.

The driving experience is exceptionally smooth and pleasant. The ride is comfortable, the power take-up is smooth and seamless, and the power train (either petrol or electric or both) always has enough in reserve and is easy to control. The car is very quiet, especially in EV mode.

I generally drive with the gear selector set to B, as this provides significant engine braking when my foot is off the "go" pedal, such that it is less often necessary to use the "stop" pedal and consequently I can drive for the most part in one-pedal mode. This also helps to reduce wear on the braking system.

Average fuel economy so far is 57.5 mpg (calculated from actual purchases of petrol). Fuel economy seems to be better in warm dry weather and at speeds below 60 mph.

Now for the negative comments. I have learnt to disable the LKAS, but the RDMS cannot be permanently deactivated, only at the start of each journey by making 5 or more button presses (the number seeming to be variable). The RDMS is a positive threat to life and limb - it is a danger that should be avoided at all costs. When one is driving on narrow roads (which includes many of those in the UK), the RDMS will come into action unpredictably and will pull the car into the path of oncoming traffic. The only way of saving oneself from injury or worse is to grab the steering wheel immediately and firmly, so as to counteract the malign efforts of the RDMS. When one is driving on single-track roads such as found in remote areas, the RDMS often pulls the car to the offside.

I have had the RDMS checked by my local Honda dealer, who found nothing wrong. I have written several letters to Honda UK, the president of which eventually replied to me to say that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, even though all that I asked for was an option on the central screen to turn the RDMS off permanently - this would be a simple software mod which could be provided at minimal cost to customers who don't want the RDMS and feel threatened by it.

I have discussed the RDMS with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, who advised me to fit a dashcam and collect video evidence about the effects of the RDMS. I now have a dashcam but am very reluctant to allow one of these RDMS events to occur and to put myself and my passengers and other road users in danger.

So my overall verdict is that the Jazz Mark 4 scores 90% but this is not a pass mark. I will never again buy any car with RDMS or similar fitted to it unless it can be deactivated permanently. I live in hope that Honda will release a software mod to bring the score up to 100%.

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: John Ratsey on June 03, 2021, 04:03:59 PM
Many others here also find the RDMS to be a nuisance, if not a hazard. The underlying problem is that the presence of this system helps get the Jazz top marks in the Euro safety testing (NCAP) and any feature used in the safety testing isn't allowed to be permanently disabled. It appears that Honda failed to do sufficient testing of this system in normal UK driving conditions to be able to figure out how to tell the difference between an inattentive driver about to go off the road and an attentive driver intentionally going close to the edge of the road to, for example, make space for an oncoming vehicle or avoid a pothole or just take a straighter route down an empty wiggly road.

You shouldn't be needing five button presses to deactivate RDMS. It's one press on the safety systems selector shortcut button in the little switch cluster near the driver's door followed by a push on the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.

I expect that the next version of the Jazz (or possibly any major refresh) will have a more intelligent version of RDMS. While Honda's response to complaints is "it's fine and working as designed" there appears to be a system for logging the features which are annoying customers. When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" (I had the HR-V with a touch panel for these controls and it was a safety hazard because it was necessary to look at it to use it).
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on June 03, 2021, 04:20:55 PM
Many others here also find the RDMS to be a nuisance, if not a hazard. The underlying problem is that the presence of this system helps get the Jazz top marks in the Euro safety testing (NCAP) and any feature used in the safety testing isn't allowed to be permanently disabled. It appears that Honda failed to do sufficient testing of this system in normal UK driving conditions to be able to figure out how to tell the difference between an inattentive driver about to go off the road and an attentive driver intentionally going close to the edge of the road to, for example, make space for an oncoming vehicle or avoid a pothole or just take a straighter route down an empty wiggly road.

You shouldn't be needing five button presses to deactivate RDMS. It's one press on the safety systems selector shortcut button in the little switch cluster near the driver's door followed by a push on the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.

I expect that the next version of the Jazz (or possibly any major refresh) will have a more intelligent version of RDMS. While Honda's response to complaints is "it's fine and working as designed" there appears to be a system for logging the features which are annoying customers. When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" (I had the HR-V with a touch panel for these controls and it was a safety hazard because it was necessary to look at it to use it).

Have they fitted 'pothole detection and avoidance' to any vehicle yet,  the biggest road safety problem is drivers having to look out for potholes when they should be looking for other vehicles.... you can lose a wheel down some of the ones by us. Worst thing is on country roads that you sometimes have to choose between hitting the pothole or hitting a vehicle coming the other way......
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on June 03, 2021, 04:26:25 PM
.....When the Mk 4 was launched Honda specifically noted that there there were real knobs and buttons to control heating and ventilation "in response to user feedback" ......
When I went to view/try the mk3 which I have now, I commented to the sales chap that I specifically wanted a car with "proper knobs" for heating/ventilation and also definitely NOT keyless entry/start stuff. He smiled (I think it was understanding, it could have been pity on an old fogey, or even wind I suppose). The mk3 ticked those specific boxes, happy days.
These owner comments on the RDMS system are extremely useful, it's the sort of stuff you don't really want to have to find out for yourself having committed to a new car with it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on June 03, 2021, 05:14:21 PM
I agree with virtually everything that Sam B says.

LKAS can be permanently disabled (page 471 of the on-line manual), but RDMS is downright dangerous on narrow country roads in the UK. I just don't understand how Honda, or the NCAP people can think any different.
We really do need a software upgrade, to allow permanent disabling of RDMS.

I just wonder what would happen in an accident, where it could be proved that RDMS, had steered the car into another?

I'm a little surprised at the low fuel consumption figures that he is getting, I'm currently showing 67.4MPG over 1160 Miles, driving in 'B' mode where possible, only using 'D' mode where ACC is required.

Still, at the end of the day, I still think this is the best Jazz so far, from the 6, I've owned
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Sam B on June 03, 2021, 05:34:19 PM
It takes at least 5 button presses on my Jazz to deactivate the RDMS at the start of each journey. These are:
(wait for "ready to drive" to appear on the dashboard)
1 Press the safety support switch on the RHS.
2 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
3 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
4 Press the left selector wheel on the steering wheel.
5 Press the home button on the steering wheel.
Sometimes even more presses are needed if this procedure is rushed.
It may be that fewer presses are needed when the car is in motion, but I prefer to get this sorted before moving off. I would prefer it even more if Honda made it unnecessary!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: NoelM on June 03, 2021, 06:57:23 PM
Only two presses. If you give it about 3 seconds
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on June 03, 2021, 07:34:53 PM
Only two presses. If you give it about 3 seconds
Which 3 presses?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: NoelM on June 04, 2021, 12:46:14 AM
Before moving off. Press safety support button
Look at display. Press centre button (to switch off) wait a few seconds display changes. Press home.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: DCrofter on June 05, 2021, 10:57:01 AM
I have had my Jazz SR Mark 4 for 9 months and am mostly very happy with it. This is my 5th. Jazz, having owned all the previous Marks. With one major exception (see below) this is the best car that I have owned or driven.

The driving experience is exceptionally smooth and pleasant. The ride is comfortable, the power take-up is smooth and seamless, and the power train (either petrol or electric or both) always has enough in reserve and is easy to control. The car is very quiet, especially in EV mode.

I generally drive with the gear selector set to B, as this provides significant engine braking when my foot is off the "go" pedal, such that it is less often necessary to use the "stop" pedal and consequently I can drive for the most part in one-pedal mode. This also helps to reduce wear on the braking system.

Average fuel economy so far is 57.5 mpg (calculated from actual purchases of petrol). Fuel economy seems to be better in warm dry weather and at speeds below 60 mph.

Now for the negative comments. I have learnt to disable the LKAS, but the RDMS cannot be permanently deactivated, only at the start of each journey by making 5 or more button presses (the number seeming to be variable). The RDMS is a positive threat to life and limb - it is a danger that should be avoided at all costs. When one is driving on narrow roads (which includes many of those in the UK), the RDMS will come into action unpredictably and will pull the car into the path of oncoming traffic. The only way of saving oneself from injury or worse is to grab the steering wheel immediately and firmly, so as to counteract the malign efforts of the RDMS. When one is driving on single-track roads such as found in remote areas, the RDMS often pulls the car to the offside.

I have had the RDMS checked by my local Honda dealer, who found nothing wrong. I have written several letters to Honda UK, the president of which eventually replied to me to say that they couldn't (or wouldn't) do anything, even though all that I asked for was an option on the central screen to turn the RDMS off permanently - this would be a simple software mod which could be provided at minimal cost to customers who don't want the RDMS and feel threatened by it.

I have discussed the RDMS with the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency, who advised me to fit a dashcam and collect video evidence about the effects of the RDMS. I now have a dashcam but am very reluctant to allow one of these RDMS events to occur and to put myself and my passengers and other road users in danger.

So my overall verdict is that the Jazz Mark 4 scores 90% but this is not a pass mark. I will never again buy any car with RDMS or similar fitted to it unless it can be deactivated permanently. I live in hope that Honda will release a software mod to bring the score up to 100%.

I have written lengthy reviews elsewhere, but not here.  Whilst most aspects of the car are very positive and I usually achieve mid to high 60's mpg (real from actual refuelling calculations) without hanging around, I find I have the same experiences as Sam B regards the RDMS which I have written about in other publications. I live in an area of Norfolk with many narrow country roads and if I forget to switch RDMS off before starting my journey the car soon starts bleeping at me and tugging at the steering wheel, even though it is on the least sensitive setting, just because there are hedges at the edge of the road. I have had odd occasions where it will try and pull me away from the hedge and towards oncoming vehicles. The system works well (in fact I cannot remember it operating) on normal carriageways. It should be easier to disable the function and although I think it doesn't have to be permanent disable, it should be a single button push in a location where it can be safely pressed even whilst the car is in motion.

I also, like many it seems, use the B mode in normal driving because of its braking effect, but you can only engage cruise if D is selected. On approaching roundabouts (we do have them as well, lots of them on our only two dual carriageway roads in the county) I drop out of cruise and move the shift to B, but if I then omit to shift back to D on leaving the roundabout and try to re-engage cruise I get a bleep and message telling me to shift back to D so have to start again resulting in a slower getaway. Surely this is software controlled so again why can't cruise work with either braking mode selected on the shift lever?

Question - Do I have to use the B mode to get the best from regenerative braking?  Can anyone tell me when I press the brake pedal does that increase regenerative braking until there comes a point where friction is also required and how far can I press before the disc brakes engage.  The answer to this is key to getting the most efficiency out of regenerative braking - help save the planet and the wallet.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 05, 2021, 02:03:37 PM
Re your point about auto shifting to D when ACC is engaged - you’d end up with a mismatch between the drive mode and shifter position, unless the shifter was actuated which would add cost. Cruise doesn’t work in B because the system has only been programmed/certified to use the friction brakes, not the regen.

I’m not sure if the Jazz uses blended braking when the pedal is pressed. I believe it is brake by wire, but I think it is purely friction braking.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 05, 2021, 02:24:15 PM
I’m not sure if the Jazz uses blended braking when the pedal is pressed. I believe it is brake by wire, but I think it is purely friction braking.
If you look at the power mode display you'll notice that for gentle braking the regen is contributing.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on June 05, 2021, 05:22:16 PM
Regeneration contributes to braking all the way down to 0 MPH, but I don’t think the foot brake adds anything extra to the regeneration braking, only the ‘B’ mode does that.
In fact total regeneration braking in a stop, when the brake pedal is used, is reduced, since the energy is being used up by the friction brakes, so leaving less available for regeneration.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: E27006 on June 05, 2021, 07:39:11 PM
Just a comment on friction brakes. The most powerful part of a car are the brakes,   the 75 bhp  engine may accelerate the car forwards from zero to 60 mph in 12 seconds, but the brakes will take the car from 60 mph to zero in 4 or 5 seconds. The power those friction brakes  can dissipate is astonishing, they are the equivalent of an engine of several hundred bhp driving the car backwards.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 06, 2021, 04:20:36 AM
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
Do it on the IAM test and it's a fail.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 06, 2021, 08:57:00 AM
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.

My guess is that when you hit the brake pedal the brakes do get used but also the regen is applied too.

Quote from: The manual
When decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 06, 2021, 11:23:02 AM
I passed my IAM back in 2008 - I wonder how it’s changed since with all the new technology. I’d wager not much, as I doubt Roadcraft has much to say about electric and automatic cars.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 06, 2021, 11:31:34 AM
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I'm showing my age  :)


Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: madasafish on June 06, 2021, 01:46:24 PM
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
That was before the age of regenerative braking.
I'm showing my age  :)

My first car - a 1929 Riley 9 - had no syncromesh and magneto ignition and a fabric body.

So there!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: richardfrost on June 06, 2021, 04:20:03 PM
I always remember my IAM tutor telling me - always use the brakes to slow down, do not change down gears, brakes are cheaper than engine and clutch.
Do it on the IAM test and it's a fail.

No wear and tear on a motor working as a generator though is there. So I think they need to update that rule.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on June 06, 2021, 06:10:36 PM
My guess is that when you hit the brake pedal the brakes do get used but also the regen is applied too.

Quote from: The manual
When decelerating without the accelerator being depressed or the brake pedal being applied, or
while driving downhill, the electric motor acts as a generator that recovers a portion of the
electrical energy that was used to accelerate the vehicle. This regenerative braking slows the
vehicle in a manner similar to engine braking in a petrol-powered vehicle.

Regenerative Braking – All Honda hybrid models also feature innovative technology known as regenerative braking. In an effort to recapture energy that’s typically lost during the braking process, these advanced systems are able to store this energy for later use inside the battery. As a matter of fact, this process begins as soon as you lift your foot off of the accelerator — not just when you press the brake pedal!

https://www.germainhondaofbeavercreek.com/how-do-honda-hybrids-work/

So, as soon as you lift your foot off of the accelerator AND when you press the brake pedal. If you only slightly press the brake pedal, the mechanical brakes are not (yet) activated. Only when the brake pedal is depressed more do the mechanical brakes come into effect.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Hicardo on June 06, 2021, 11:10:20 PM
The handbook for the mk 4 states that B should typically be used down steep hills to increase engine braking. 

This is in line with what Toyota also recommend for their own hybrid drivetrain. 

I understand various Honda dealers have been recommending customers to drive for extended periods in B in varied driving.  but not sure about this recommendation - as it doesn't seem to be what is recommended by Honda in the jazz manual.

Dont believe you get increased economy using B in general driving, because youre losing more momentum when you lift off.  In D, youre losing less momentum when you lift off.  then if you need the brakes, the braking regens the power.  Also ive driven Toyota hybrids in the Alps, and the traction battery frequently fills up on long downhills, so that any extra regen cannot be utilised - so you definitely don't benefit more using B than standard D and braking - except to provide less wear on brake components on the long descents - which is what the jazz manual says

Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 07, 2021, 12:55:51 AM
Around town I find B is an easier driving experience compared with D.

One thing I noticed today on the motorway was that Adaptive Cruise Control uses the brake lights if it has to slow down suddenly due to a car in front braking.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 07, 2021, 04:32:57 AM
My only reservation would be switching from B to D whilst in motion.

Could you easily push too hard and go from to B to N by accident or is there a protection button to stop this ?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on June 07, 2021, 07:48:51 AM
The handbook for the mk 4 states that B should typically be used down steep hills to increase engine braking. 

This is in line with what Toyota also recommend for their own hybrid drivetrain. 

I understand various Honda dealers have been recommending customers to drive for extended periods in B in varied driving.  but not sure about this recommendation - as it doesn't seem to be what is recommended by Honda in the jazz manual.

Dont believe you get increased economy using B in general driving, because youre losing more momentum when you lift off.  In D, youre losing less momentum when you lift off.  then if you need the brakes, the braking regens the power.  Also ive driven Toyota hybrids in the Alps, and the traction battery frequently fills up on long downhills, so that any extra regen cannot be utilised - so you definitely don't benefit more using B than standard D and braking - except to provide less wear on brake components on the long descents - which is what the jazz manual says
I tend to drive in D unless going downhill, I tried using B more but didn't seem to make any difference to economy. There seem to be different views as to whether braking (using the brake pedal) regens the battery, I've seen nothing in the handbook to say it does, I always assumed it only happens when foot is off the accelerator and brake pedal not pressed.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 07, 2021, 10:07:43 AM
I tend to drive in D unless going downhill, I tried using B more but didn't seem to make any difference to economy. There seem to be different views as to whether braking (using the brake pedal) regens the battery, I've seen nothing in the handbook to say it does, I always assumed it only happens when foot is off the accelerator and brake pedal not pressed.
I quoted from Page 16 of the PDF. That section (Quick Reference Guide) is not in the paper manual.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Zaier on June 07, 2021, 10:09:55 AM
My only reservation would be switching from B to D whilst in motion.

Could you easily push too hard and go from to B to N by accident or is there a protection button to stop this ?

There's no protection from B to D, whereas you have to pull the shift trigger to go from D to B, but last Sunday I drove around 40km on a hill area and sometimes switched between B and D, I never hit the N by mistake, you should put a brutal force on the shift lever to do so.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on June 07, 2021, 10:36:44 AM
The big no-no on auto boxes is selecting 'P' before the car has stopped.  The 'P' position puts a mechanical lock on the gearbox,  and selecting P while car still moving can either shear off the locking pin or other nasty stuff.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: E27006 on June 07, 2021, 11:51:47 AM
The big no-no on auto boxes is selecting 'P' before the car has stopped.  The 'P' position puts a mechanical lock on the gearbox,  and selecting P while car still moving can either shear off the locking pin or other nasty stuff.

The mechanical pawl on the transmission. Is the pawl in addition to a conventional friction handbrake acting on the wheel?

If the Jazz has the transmission brake engaged while stationary eg the car parked, and the car is struck from front or behind in an accident situation, will the transmission brake take the impact  to the car and suffer damage to the pawl?  How hard a task to replace a damaged pawl in the transmission?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Zaier on June 07, 2021, 12:27:32 PM
Yes, transmission pawl act on the front wheels as they are connected to the transmission.
Handbrake act through electric motor on the rear brake calipers.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 07, 2021, 02:28:37 PM
Around town I find B is an easier driving experience compared with D.

One thing I noticed today on the motorway was that Adaptive Cruise Control uses the brake lights if it has to slow down suddenly due to a car in front braking.
It’s tied to brake force. Regs state that over a certain amount of G, the brake lights must activate.

Regarding B mode, you won’t do any harm leaving it on. The recommendation is for those transitioning from traditional petrol cars. I personally drive in B because it feels more like the EVs I’m used to.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on June 08, 2021, 10:00:19 AM
I recently wrote to Honda UK to voice my concerns about the implementation of RDMS and pointing out that in certain circumstances, on narrow UK roads I regarded the system as downright dangerous.

This is their reply:-

Thank you for contacting us and we hope your day is going fine.
We are sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). The system itself is designed to alert and help you when detecting a possibility of your vehicle crossing over detected lane markings or approaching the outer edge of the pavement (into grass or gravel border) or an oncoming vehicle.
There are indeed some limitations of the system as mentioned in the Owner’s Manual - p.483-p.486.
There is also a way to disable the system mentioned in the Owner’s Manual on p.482, if you are not satisfied with the way the Road Departure Mitigation System performs.
The RDMS is turned on every time you turn the power system on, even if you turned it off the last time you drove the vehicle, as this is a safety related feature of the Honda Jazz.
If you wish to permanently disable the system, it would be best to speak to an authorized Honda dealer, as they are technically trained staff and would be able to advise you if this is possible.

We value all customer feedback we receive about our products. This feedback is crucial to allow us as a business to strive forward and provide our customers with the highest quality products. 
We will ensure to pass your feedback on to the relevant teams, where they will use the feedback for future vehicles we manufacture, taking into consideration the comments you have made on the Road Departure Mitigation System.
We hope that this reassures you that we take any feedback our customers provide seriously.
Thank you for contacting us. If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
 
Kind Regards,


Their rely doesn't tell me much that I don't already know, but do they appear to accept that there are situations where RDMS can have an adverse effect and suggest that I contact my dealer for help, which I don't think will be forthcoming!
All I need is the facility to switch off RDMS permanently, which would be the same as LKAS, can it be so difficult?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 08, 2021, 10:16:22 AM
That's first level support quoting from the manual. You've not got through to a decision maker.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 08, 2021, 11:10:21 AM
If you're passing a dealer ......

"Honda UK HQ have told me to come to you to get my RDMS permanently disabled"

Be interesting to hear how they phrase 'go away'
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on June 08, 2021, 11:56:59 AM
I thought that to get the 5* safety rating the RDMS system had to be activated each time the car was switched on? So will wait to hear what a dealer says when someone asks for the system to be permanently disabled.
Usual problem with beaurocratic safety organisations, they inevitably lose touch with the real world.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: embee on June 08, 2021, 02:11:52 PM
If you're passing a dealer ......
Be interesting to hear how they phrase 'go away'
It'll almost certainly be two words, probably involving sex and travel ......................  :o
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on June 08, 2021, 02:51:03 PM
If you're passing a dealer ......
Be interesting to hear how they phrase 'go away'
It'll almost certainly be two words, probably involving sex and travel ......................  :o
"Go forth and multiply."
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Mellorshark on June 08, 2021, 03:42:45 PM
I turned RDMS off whilst driving today.  Pressed the safety support switch and then the left selector wheel.  No problem.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Sam B on June 13, 2021, 01:18:56 PM
I recently wrote to Honda UK to voice my concerns about the implementation of RDMS and pointing out that in certain circumstances, on narrow UK roads I regarded the system as downright dangerous.

This is their reply:-

Thank you for contacting us and we hope your day is going fine.
We are sorry to hear about the issues you are having with the Road Departure Mitigation System (RDMS). The system itself is designed to alert and help you when detecting a possibility of your vehicle crossing over detected lane markings or approaching the outer edge of the pavement (into grass or gravel border) or an oncoming vehicle.
There are indeed some limitations of the system as mentioned in the Owner’s Manual - p.483-p.486.
There is also a way to disable the system mentioned in the Owner’s Manual on p.482, if you are not satisfied with the way the Road Departure Mitigation System performs.
The RDMS is turned on every time you turn the power system on, even if you turned it off the last time you drove the vehicle, as this is a safety related feature of the Honda Jazz.
If you wish to permanently disable the system, it would be best to speak to an authorized Honda dealer, as they are technically trained staff and would be able to advise you if this is possible.

We value all customer feedback we receive about our products. This feedback is crucial to allow us as a business to strive forward and provide our customers with the highest quality products. 
We will ensure to pass your feedback on to the relevant teams, where they will use the feedback for future vehicles we manufacture, taking into consideration the comments you have made on the Road Departure Mitigation System.
We hope that this reassures you that we take any feedback our customers provide seriously.
Thank you for contacting us. If you need any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
 
Kind Regards,


Their rely doesn't tell me much that I don't already know, but do they appear to accept that there are situations where RDMS can have an adverse effect and suggest that I contact my dealer for help, which I don't think will be forthcoming!
All I need is the facility to switch off RDMS permanently, which would be the same as LKAS, can it be so difficult?

This is very similar to the reply that I had from Honda UK on the same subject. They are just trying to wash their hands of any responsibility for the potential dangers of their products and trying to pass the buck to dealers without giving the dealers any additional support for sorting out the problems.

Regarding the B setting on the gear selector: I always use B for any trip, and I like its contribution to easy driving. I also generally use the speed limiter (i.e. the LIM option in the cruise control but not the full "foot off" capability of the cruise control) when on motorways and dual carriageways, and I find that this generally works well with the B setting.

However, I have on two occasions had an upsetting experience when the speed limiter has failed to limit the speed. While driving at 70 mph on a motorway with the limiter set to 70, the car suddenly and without any warning accelerated to 77 before I realised what was happening and brought things under control. This was accompanied by repeated beeping, warning me that I was exceeding my set limit, even though the limiter was not doing what it should. Neither Honda UK nor the dealer have been of any help in explaining this. Has anyone else come across this?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Hicardo on June 13, 2021, 04:35:00 PM
As I live in country location with narrow lanes, I'll typically be turning off RDMS on the Crosstar, after I pick it up this week, don't know if I mentioned  :P.  Our Golf has a similar system but ive become used to it, and it doesnt catch me out anymore.  So maybe the Honda system will be, despite it flaws, something I can become used to, I don't know.  I had a Suzuki ignis a few years ago, and I always turned off its similar system - but the advantage of that car was that you only had to turn it off once  ;D.  ;D
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinB on June 13, 2021, 04:49:57 PM
However, I have on two occasions had an upsetting experience when the speed limiter has failed to limit the speed. While driving at 70 mph on a motorway with the limiter set to 70, the car suddenly and without any warning accelerated to 77 before I realised what was happening and brought things under control. This was accompanied by repeated beeping, warning me that I was exceeding my set limit, even though the limiter was not doing what it should. Neither Honda UK nor the dealer have been of any help in explaining this. Has anyone else come across this?

The only thing close to that that I’ve experienced (on a Mk.3, not a Mk.4) is that the car can overspeed when going downhill. The speed limiter only acts to close the throttle, it doesn’t apply the brakes. So if there’s a downhill stretch where gravity can accelerate you, the car will exceed the set speed and you get the alarms going off unless you brake manually to keep the speed down. Don’t know how that might read across to the Mk4 with its regenerative braking though.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 13, 2021, 08:32:30 PM
You can override the limiter if you hit the “kickdown” at the bottom of the throttle pedal travel, as in any car. It’s a safety feature so you can accelerate out of trouble in a pinch.

The regen is pretty good at holding the set speed downhill. If you ever need more braking, just put it in ACC where it’ll use the friction brakes.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Mellorshark on June 14, 2021, 01:28:10 PM
So maybe the Honda system will be, despite it flaws, something I can become used to, I don't know.
Don't know if anybody else has noticed this but the RDMS appears to reduce its activation over time.  We've had an EX for 11 months and initially it was really annoying. We live in a narrow lane with no pavements and it used to activate every time we drove up the road but it has stopped.  Also when the wife went shopping she always complained about it. I've just asked her and she says it hardly ever happens now.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 14, 2021, 09:47:25 PM
Confirmation bias I’m afraid. Just an unconscious change in driving style.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on June 14, 2021, 10:14:44 PM
Confirmation bias I’m afraid. Just an unconscious change in driving style.
I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on June 15, 2021, 05:23:34 AM
I drive from Reading to near Heathrow weekly.

I leave Reading at about 05:30 as it's a good time to leave as my journey from house to the M4 I'm usually the only car on the road.

There are a few sections of road that are like an extended but tight "S" and the obvious line, after checking mirrors, is to turn these S into a straight line. Easier, quicker, etc.

I can see the sensors going crazy at this and something I don't want.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: ColinB on June 15, 2021, 07:51:41 AM
I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.

That’s interesting. I can understand how a LKAS alert would be cancelled by indicating, also that it doesn’t happen st low speed (both of those are similar to the Mk3), but I thought the system causing the angst was the RDMS? Does the driver get any indication which system is causing the spurious alarms, or does he just get a general “stay in lane” indication? Honda have used the same warning indications for different systems before: the Mk3 has two different collision mitigation systems (the city brake active system and the forward collision warning), both of which give exactly the same audible tone and dashboard alert, so it’s not clear which one has taken offence.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Bristol_Crosstar on June 15, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
I just signal a lot more now (not a bad thing) as it stops it intervening, also driving slowly in situations where it might happen (eg country lanes). However it came on recently after I'd been stopped at temporary lights for road works, when the lights changed to green I had to cross the white line and it didn't like it.

That’s interesting. I can understand how a LKAS alert would be cancelled by indicating, also that it doesn’t happen st low speed (both of those are similar to the Mk3), but I thought the system causing the angst was the RDMS? Does the driver get any indication which system is causing the spurious alarms, or does he just get a general “stay in lane” indication? Honda have used the same warning indications for different systems before: the Mk3 has two different collision mitigation systems (the city brake active system and the forward collision warning), both of which give exactly the same audible tone and dashboard alert, so it’s not clear which one has taken offence.
LKAS is generally switched off, I only use it on motorways as it struggles on sharp corners - it's not really designed for non-motorway use. There are clear indications on the dash showing when RDMS has intervened and also for LKAS so you always know why the steering's been affected. Indicators do stop RDMS, if the car thinks you're in control and doing something intentionally it doesn't do anything so once you've got used to it RDMS is not such a problem.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: TiJazz on June 15, 2021, 11:04:15 PM
Some confusion over terms here.

RDMS = what is traditionally known as LDA/LKA/LKAS. Stops you crossing the line or road edge. On by default, must be disabled each trip.

LKAS in this context = lane follow / auto steer on motorways. Must be specifically activated for use, min speed 45 IIRC.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 08, 2021, 06:22:52 AM
I found a better example of why I like mudflaps :

(https://i.imgur.com/IRVmw88.jpg)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on December 08, 2021, 03:40:00 PM
What strikes me about our premium sunlight white pearl Jazz (without mud flaps) is that the tailgate gets disproportionately dirty.
I don't think mud flaps will fix that...(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on December 08, 2021, 04:13:04 PM
What strikes me about our premium sunlight white pearl Jazz (without mud flaps) is that the tailgate gets disproportionately dirty.
I don't think mud flaps will fix that...(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/c086.gif)

There is a small spoiler fitted to the tailgate as standard, maybe the extended spoiler will offer some protection?

The tailgate on mine does get very dirty, I'm regularly having to wipe it. The rear boot underfloor box is handy for cloths though.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: nowster on December 08, 2021, 06:04:17 PM
Slipstream vortex eddies, probably. Not much you can do about it without changing the car's "wedge" shape.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Karoq on December 08, 2021, 07:24:12 PM
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with  it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on December 08, 2021, 07:55:52 PM
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with  it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
There is actually a rear camera washer option available from Honda in Japan.

It uses air rather than water, when you put the car in reverse it uses a couple of high power air blows over the lens to remove water droplets.

Costs around £100-£150, but I asked Honda UK about it and they didn’t have any plans to offer it here.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 09, 2021, 04:28:44 AM
There is quite a lot we can't get here.

What is annoying is Honda blocking imports via dealers, like the black front cup holders. Seems illogical to me.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: R2D3 on December 09, 2021, 08:30:27 AM
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with  it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.

No camera washer on my BMW X1 either.  And checking various relatives, none on a Evoque, Lexus, Tiguan, Golf, Discovery, Peugeot 3008 or Suzuki SX4.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Karoq on December 09, 2021, 03:57:02 PM
Well done Skoda then! Simply clever! Pity everything else isn't!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: guest9814 on December 13, 2021, 06:40:08 PM
One BIG mistake (I think) by Honda, is no washer jet on the reversing camera.
How many times have you had to get out after getting in, getting the engine started and putting your seatbelt on, just to clean the lens, so you can actually see clearly with  it. I know, 'cos I was always having to do it on my Outlander.
There is actually a rear camera washer option available from Honda in Japan.

It uses air rather than water, when you put the car in reverse it uses a couple of high power air blows over the lens to remove water droplets.

Costs around £100-£150, but I asked Honda UK about it and they didn’t have any plans to offer it here.
Rear camera air blower is nothig.....
They have de anshin plus 3 camera that working with original (probably only japanese version) infiotiment system and can assist on parking and working all time you drive to allert if someone aproach your car or you have someone in  blind spot zones.
To my sadness unclear if this one work with european multimedia system, and i have in addition to buy wiring kit for original camera anyway (elegance not have original camera fitted)
Will buy another if elegance will have front and rear camera fitted....
As small bonus i want powermeter option awailable on dashboard (helps alot if i want to glide  after reach desired speed as this alows to get better fuel economy)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on December 13, 2021, 08:52:33 PM
If you use the Japanese website through chrome you can get it translated into English:

https://www.honda.co.jp/Fit/

There are many Jazz options/versions not available here.

I also noticed that they don't seem to have the centre cupholders/box/armrest that we get in the UK as standard, just a space there with the option of an armrest.

It does say the enhanced camera function is available in Japan on the standard 8" infotainment (a different spec 9" infotainment system is a £1,200 option.)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 14, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
I really do not get complaints about engine noise in the MK4 Jazz. Putting your foot hard down on the accelerator pedal is not helpful;  the car is pretty nippy without revving the engine, more so out of Econ mode. These days I don't tend to take any car into the red rev range;  I'm retired and more interested in safety and fuel economy than driving hard.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 14, 2021, 10:41:22 AM
Same here, it's very quiet. I would say quieter than my 9G Civic was.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: peteo48 on December 14, 2021, 10:55:14 AM
I am with those who say it's quiet. I've noticed the engine note a couple of times when joining a motorway but it wasn't even close to being intrusive. For 95% of the time I just "waft" around.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Lord Voltermore on December 14, 2021, 11:11:02 AM
I too am a happy 'wafter'.    As to the original question ' would you buy another Mk4 '     the answer is yes.  But I am not so brand loyal that in 3 or 5 years time I wouldnt check out alternatives , especially if EV technology and infrastructure has moved on.  And if Honda dont spend too much time resting on their engineering laurels.    They need to  up their marketing efforts   to put more european bums on magic seats.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on December 14, 2021, 11:21:46 AM
I really do not get complaints about engine noise in the MK4 Jazz. Putting your foot hard down on the accelerator pedal is not helpful;  the car is pretty nippy without revving the engine, more so out of Econ mode. These days I don't tend to take any car into the red rev range;  I'm retired and more interested in safety and fuel economy than driving hard.
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 14, 2021, 12:04:19 PM
Yep.

I can accelerate up a motorway sliproad and get to blending in speed with very little noise.

These journos seem to have a point to make to satisfy their advertisers.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on December 14, 2021, 12:16:23 PM
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?
I think it very much depends on the state of the battery at the time.
For a given acceleration, if the battery is well up, then the engine obviously has to work less.
Conversely if the battery is low, then the engine has to to work harder to make up the required power deficiency.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 14, 2021, 01:21:20 PM
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?
Yes. It's rather enjoyable to feel the car surge forward with a moderate pressure on the pedal. Eco mode reduces the fun aspect.

I think it helps to consider that the engine is only running to charge the drive battery. That's not completely true by the way.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Expatman on December 14, 2021, 04:02:56 PM
Yep.

I can accelerate up a motorway sliproad and get to blending in speed with very little noise.

These journos seem to have a point to make to satisfy their advertisers.
That’s what I suspected!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on December 14, 2021, 04:23:39 PM
Flooring the pedal makes little more sense than letting you experience the simulated shifting moments (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/verschiedene/e025.gif) (that happens to me very rarely...).
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 14, 2021, 05:17:47 PM
I've never had the simulated shift, and, I haven't driven round like a Sunday driver.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: peteo48 on December 14, 2021, 05:38:59 PM
From what I’ve read the difference in acceleration between flooring the pedal - and creating max engine noise - and being more gentle with the pedal - and minimising noise - actually makes little difference to the rate of acceleration. Is that your experience in real life?
Yes. It's rather enjoyable to feel the car surge forward with a moderate pressure on the pedal. Eco mode reduces the fun aspect.

I think it helps to consider that the engine is only running to charge the drive battery. That's not completely true by the way.

Good point about the Econ mode. I use it round town but it certainly stifles the throttle response so I knock it off on the open road.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on December 14, 2021, 05:47:24 PM
I can get the simulated shifts at 20-30mph, just going up slight hills at only 1/4 accelerator.

I think it is programmed just to break up the constant noise of the petrol engine when it is needed.

It's most noticeable at high speeds with full throttle, but I can get it at other times.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 15, 2021, 09:48:37 AM
I'm not often aware of the fake gear-changes. Hearing it must be a result of the style of driving.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on December 15, 2021, 12:17:22 PM
it seems to occur when the car is under load and accelerating a bit with a steady accelerator position - going uphill/etc.

I can get it to happen at low speed under light acceleration going up a slight hill from a stop, under 30mph.

It does seem just like real gear changes, if you didn't know then someone driving it would assume it had a normal gearbox.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 15, 2021, 03:08:26 PM
.. It does seem just like real gear changes, if you didn't know then someone driving it would assume it had a normal gearbox.
I think that's it's there for people who might be concerned about Continuously Variable Transmission's, (CVT). In the past CVT's could be a bit naff.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: shufty on December 15, 2021, 03:49:02 PM
...Derbyshire can be 'hilly' and I get the 'gear changes' a fair amount of the time.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 15, 2021, 05:22:01 PM
...Derbyshire can be 'hilly' and I get the 'gear changes' a fair amount of the time.
I love the Derbyshire Peaks. In non pandemic times I would attend BSA Owners Club camping weekends with my 1955 Golden Flash. Riding a motorcycle around the Peak District is wonderful.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: culzean on December 15, 2021, 08:17:08 PM
...Derbyshire can be 'hilly' and I get the 'gear changes' a fair amount of the time.
I love the Derbyshire Peaks. In non pandemic times I would attend BSA Owners Club camping weekends with my 1955 Golden Flash. Riding a motorcycle around the Peak District is wonderful.

Problem is that during decent motorbiking weather the Plods are very active in peak District....
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Neil Ives on December 16, 2021, 10:22:57 AM
... Problem is that during decent motorbiking weather the Plods are very active in peak District....
I'm OK with that. The way idiots fly around on their crotch rockets is horrific.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: aphybrid on December 16, 2021, 12:05:19 PM
There are some 'missing' features in Crosstar like heated steering wheel, self dimming mirror, heated windscreen which can be had in competitors models of same class.

All of these can be said to be unnecessary but like a dishwasher in the house (not a wife or similar) once had always want.

But that aside this is the best Honda cars I have had from Civic Coupe, Accord Coupe, Jazzs, and Accord.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on December 16, 2021, 12:28:56 PM
It's also my favourite Honda after 3 Civics.

It seems better designed and built.

The non dipping mirror is no issue for me, the privacy glass does a similar job. I don't need a heated screen as mine's garaged.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 19, 2022, 09:31:57 AM
There is quite a lot we can't get here.

What is annoying is Honda blocking imports via dealers, like the black front cup holders. Seems illogical to me.

What Honda EU block Krem has an answer. Stage 1 complete, got them :

(https://i.imgur.com/RHeqq8w.jpg)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 19, 2022, 10:35:14 AM
Stage 2, WIP :

(https://i.imgur.com/vRJfX5p.jpg)

This looks far better :

Left :

(https://i.imgur.com/iex867Q.jpg)

Right :

(https://i.imgur.com/zjm8uqw.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ETVUJsc.jpg)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: peteo48 on April 19, 2022, 11:09:01 AM
Yes - my favourite Honda by some distance and I've had 5 before this one.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on April 19, 2022, 01:29:53 PM
This looks far better :

Left :

(https://i.imgur.com/iex867Q.jpg)

I really don't like the black ones... (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/traurig/a070.gif) The white cup holders go very well with all those white buttons on the steering wheel and that white plate around the shift lever.

(https://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/cars-car/carousel/2020/06/303306_2020_honda_jazz.jpg?w=976&h=549)

What to do with all that white now? Maybe...:
https://youtu.be/O4irXQhgMqg?list=RDEM07sWLP40fqgolm2qkwr-DQ
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: dfconnolly on April 19, 2022, 01:48:23 PM
I have to say that the Jazz has finally become the car it always should have been .

We’ve had 1998 Civic 3 dr Hatchback, a 2002 Jazz 1.4 SE, a 2005 Jazz SE along with a 2006 Jazz SE, a Hybrid IMA HS which was our favourite Jazz and we had it for 10 years with no problems apart from wear and tear items (traded in for £5.5k last year. That car was the best Jazz we had owned and I felt nothing ever came out to beat it! All the Jazzes were CVT (managed to avoid the disappointing I-shift)

Also had a 2014 Civic Tourer EX 1.6 diesel car, great Touring car and easily achieved 65+ mpg. It was the 6 speed manual gearbox that became tedious to use that gave me the excuse to trade it in for my CRV SR hybrid……BLISS!

The 2019 Jazz EX my wife owns is definitely the best Jazz we have come to own over all the foregoing models but it’s been a long time (20 yers now) coming!

The only fly in the ointment has been the grief we’ve had with voice guidance failure on the SatNav…..sorted now due to faulty usb flash drive!

Would we buy a mark 4 Jazz again…..the answer is a DEFINITE  YES!!!

(Just need to improve the robustness of the infotainment system and it’s software methinks)
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 19, 2022, 04:02:57 PM
I actually quite like the majority of the steering buttons being white.

I remember old PC keyboards when they were light grey with black letters. Far easier to read the keys than these latest black keyboards with white letters.

I have to get backlit keyboards now to see what keys I'm pressing.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kenneve on April 19, 2022, 05:33:23 PM
Yes, this is the best Jazz I've had, by far and would certainly buy another one, although at 85, there is not a lot of time left  ;D
Have just turned over the 12 months of ownership. The screen is showing a total of 9240 miles at an average of 66.1Mpg, which for me, is much better that any previous Jazz that I've had.
My only gripe is the inability to permanently switch off the RDMS, which I find a real PITA, otherwise the car is nigh on perfect for my needs.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Hugh R on April 19, 2022, 05:50:04 PM
Yes, this is the best Jazz I've had, by far and would certainly buy another one, although at 85, there is not a lot of time left.
My only gripe is the inability to permanently switch off the RDMS, which I find a real PITA, otherwise the car is nigh on perfect for my needs.

If only it had self-parking as an extra, that would be the bees knees. If they can put it on the all electric, why don't they put on any other car in the Honda range?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Pine on April 19, 2022, 06:55:40 PM
I've had two cars with self parking.  I tried it a couple of times in both of them to see how it worked but it always finished too far from the pavement for my liking so I never used it.
Title: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: sportse on April 19, 2022, 09:15:10 PM
I’ve also had self parking on a couple of cars - I thought it would be good to have but ended up using it only a couple of times.

On my Auris it nearly bashed the kerb as it was too close. On my V40 it was too far from the kerb. They both also spin the wheel when you are stopped, straining the steering and wearing the tyres.

Once you get used to the jazz rear view camera and pick a view (I use mid magnification)the moving guidelines when reversing are great for parking.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 20, 2022, 05:21:12 AM
I can't remember the last time I turned round / looked rearwards to reverse.

I always reverse on the door mirrors and use the rear camera at the last moment.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: R2D3 on April 20, 2022, 08:33:23 AM
I've had two cars with self parking.  I tried it a couple of times in both of them to see how it worked but it always finished too far from the pavement for my liking so I never used it.
I too have had self (Parellel) parking on two cars.  The first, a Skoda Yeti, was absolutely brilliant. Parked just an inch or so from the kerb without ever hitting it.  Only issue I had was demonstrating the feature to a friend when it parked in such a tight space that I could not get it out with out a great (and I mean great) deal of difficultly.  The second (BMW X1) I only used once so difficult to compare but maybe because it was brand new and expensive I was rather nervous of  parking in confined spaces and never used it again.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: peteo48 on April 20, 2022, 11:16:36 AM

My only gripe is the inability to permanently switch off the RDMS, which I find a real PITA, otherwise the car is nigh on perfect for my needs.

Agreed. We've done this to death on various threads but it remains a PITA for me as well. I'd feel better if it was just one switch but they don't want to make it easy for us and that must be by design. I do worry that it's a bit of a distraction because I switch it off "on the move" as I don't want to spend 5 minutes with the engine idling scrolling through endless screens, losing my preferred home screen etc etc.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on April 20, 2022, 03:21:18 PM
I do worry that it's a bit of a distraction because I switch it off "on the move" as I don't want to spend 5 minutes with the engine idling scrolling through endless screens, losing my preferred home screen etc etc.

I have a short comment for that: not wise! (understatement). You worry and still..?
And here I suspect a typo: of course you mean seconds instead of minutes?
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Kremmen on April 20, 2022, 03:42:42 PM
I can turn RDMS off in about 10 seconds from a cold start.

The trick is to press the steering wheel home button a few times to get to your preferred home screen by quickly bypassing the seat belt displays.

Sitting there waiting for the seat belt screens to auto disappear is not necessary.
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: crosstarhonda on April 21, 2022, 05:52:57 PM
Yep!
Title: Re: Would You Buy Another Mk4
Post by: Jazzik on April 21, 2022, 06:37:51 PM
Would You Buy Another Mk4 SE (Comfort) disguised as a Type R ?

(https://www.hondagebrauchtwagen.de/picserver1/userdata/1/36654/WnkVyhdkBr/xxl_81477146-1.jpg)

(https://www.hondagebrauchtwagen.de/picserver1/userdata/1/36654/WnkVyhdkBr/xxl_81477146-9.jpg)

My personal opinion: pathetic, those red Type R badges on a Jazz e:HEV.


https://www.hondagebrauchtwagen.de/de/fahrzeuge/honda/jazz/15-i-mmd-hybrid-comfort-mmcqxac4?au_advert_id=263120318&au_car_id=138054473&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=autouncle_web