SNP stance on EV's.

[culzean]

I have also read (tongue in cheek) that if the car is on charge and you turn on the kettle for a brew you will trip the mains.

Not if you have the new EU approved 250 watt kettles that take 30 minutes to boil (if ever) or the new 100 watt toasters that will warm the bread but not brown it.  These devices are introduced to level out the 'peaks' in electrical supply that saved running a conventional station to handle and renewables cannot cope with (can't even cope with level demand).  Traditionally pumped storage schemes have been used to cope with expected peak demands - these can be run up to capacity to handle expected peaks (like half time in England world cup football matches (not too many of those) when everyone plugs in the kettle at the same time and can be at peak in as little as 20 seconds,  otherwise they take a few minutes to go from being turned on and sychronised with 50 Hz mains to supplying peak output,  but are normally only good for a few hours worth of demand.

[trebor1652]

Don't forget the new ruling from the EU on vacuum cleaners that stipulates 900 watt max motor (supplies are allowed to be sold) supposed to save us up to £13.00 a year.
Think they got it wrong again they should have said maximum decibel ratting but that's the EU for you.

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

[RichardA]

No. At the moment overnight electricity is the cheapest because there is so much of it.

This could change as the nuclear and big thermal power stations, which are happiest if left running continuously at close to full output, are progressively phased out.

That is exactly why overnight energy used to be cheap,  but not any more.  My local authority has been in the habit of turning streetlights off since about 2010 after a certain time of night (midnight) to 'save money'

A new build development up the road has no street lamps at all. But given B*vis' reputation...

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[culzean]

I know there are people pushing for lessening of light pollution from street lamps,  but good design of lamp luminares can cover this,  or at least reduce it drastically.   

[Jocko]

My local council is replacing the street lights with LED luminares. They are whiter and actually brighter and than the old 250 - 300 watt sodium tubes they replace, and only consume about 40 watts. They are really bright, but only in a downward direction, making the pavements far better illuminated. They are far easier on the eye when driving. One of the advantages of these is it leaves capacity in the miles of cables, already laid, for other things.

[guest1372]

My local council is replacing the street lights with LED luminares. ....  One of the advantages of these is it leaves capacity in the miles of cables, already laid, for other things.

As this month's Economist notes, streetlamps as EV charge points is under active development.

"Officials in London recently announced plans for 1,500 new charging-points by 2020. Local authorities there are experimenting with providing low-cost kerbside charging by enabling streetlights to double up as charging-points.

China’s government, which is set on remaining the largest market for electric cars, has far bigger plans. This year alone it is installing 800,000 public charging-points, including 100,000 semipublic ones at workplaces and for taxis and commercial vehicles.

Last year Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen and Ford also said they would together install a total of 400 public charging-points in Europe delivering 350KW, which will charge a small car to three-quarters full in four minutes and a big vehicle in 12 minutes." (At the dealers I assume)
--
TG
https://www.economist.com/news/business/21728671-reliable-network-should-not-prove-insurmountable-roadblock-infrastructure-charging

(open in private/incognito if article limit reached)

[culzean]

Fast charging of batteries damages them, so to talk of charging a 30kWh battery to 3/4 full in 4 minutes is a bit much. Charge efficiency is lower at high charge rates so you have to supply 30kw in 4 minutes or 1/15th hour and at 240 volts 1kw = 4 amps.   120 amps would charge 30kWh in an hour, so to charge it in 4 mins you need 15 x 120 amps = 1800 amps from the 240 volt supply or 1060 amps from 400 volt single phase supply, if you use 3 phase it will be 630 amps per phase,  430kw which is a huge lump of power in any language. Battery heating could be a problem - I am pretty sure the times should have been 40 minutes and 120 minutes, would not be the first time a journalist has failed at maths.

[Jocko]

Yes, those numbers look a bit iffy. A Tesla will charge to 80% in 40 minutes. New battery technology allows far faster charging than Lead Acid, but the problem in trying to get 1800 Amps along a wire requires huge conductors and massive connectors.
I worked in an industry that used high current like that. The conductors were as thick as your wrist, and you need two, plus the connectors were made of HCOF Copper (High Conductivity, Oxygen Free) and were securely bolted. Any poor connection burns out in seconds (I can smell the burnt insulation as I type this!).

[culzean]

Yes, those numbers look a bit iffy. A Tesla will charge to 80% in 40 minutes. New battery technology allows far faster charging than Lead Acid, but the problem in trying to get 1800 Amps along a wire requires huge conductors and massive connectors.
I worked in an industry that used high current like that. The conductors were as thick as your wrist, and you need two, plus the connectors were made of HCOF Copper (High Conductivity, Oxygen Free) and were securely bolted. Any poor connection burns out in seconds (I can smell the burnt insulation as I type this!).

I used to work for a resistance welding company,  and those sorts of currents were what a machine used to pull for fractions of a second to weld steel together, to pull that sort of current for longer would need massive cables.

then there is this, using batteries the size of shipping containers
https://phys.org/news/2016-01-electric-car-fast-tank-gas.html

[Jocko]

Our equipment was for evaporating Germanium, Zinc Sulphide and Sapphire (Aluminium Oxide). The boats would be drawing up to 1200 amps (4 volts) for up to 12 hours of the three shift day.
When you consider the size of storage tanks for petrol and diesel then four shipping containers is not that large. And as storage technology improves and energy density with it, then sizes will fall somewhat.
Don't get me wrong. I know there are huge obstacles to overcome, but we will overcome them and probably sooner than we think. After all, I think it was AT & T that had a feasibility study done in 1990, into mobile phones, and the experts said they would never take off. People wouldn't want them, the batteries would last no time at all and there was no infrastructure to support them. Sound familiar?

[guest1372]

Yeah those numbers can't be right.  Many years ago I worked for a concert PA company and the size our our power hook ups for a stadium gig were pretty massive (NEC/MEN Arena etc. incandescent lighting and low efficiency amps) I would not want to try to plug one of those cables into a car; 350kW and 4 minutes don't add up.  Maybe a site with say 8 hookups, and 32 minutes makes more sense.
--
TG

[culzean]

As this month's Economist notes, streetlamps as EV charge points is under active development.

Officials in London recently announced plans for 1,500 new charging-points by 2020. Local authorities there are experimenting with providing low-cost kerbside charging by enabling streetlights to double up as charging-points.

One charging point per lamp-post (every 200 yards),  I can just imagine the sh!tfights that will happen about people 'hogging' the chargers every night and the neighbours can't get a look-in when they want to hook up - city streets are already lined with cars with no parking spaces, a charge point every streetlamp doesn't even begin to make a dent in the charging requirements.  Desperate people will be charging their cars from petrol powered generators running all night - lovely !

[Jocko]

They are doing this in Hounslow now. ubertricity are installing them. How it will work when there are loads of EVs is anyone's guess. You'll be okay, culzean. You won't even have to queue at the filling station when you go to fill up!
Of course, eventually there will be little call for filling stations and you may have to order your petrol on the internet and have it delivered from UAE. 

[culzean]

They are doing this in Hounslow now. ubertricity are installing them. How it will work when there are loads of EVs is anyone's guess. You'll be okay, culzean. You won't even have to queue at the filling station when you go to fill up!
Of course, eventually there will be little call for filling stations and you may have to order your petrol on the internet and have it delivered from UAE. 

I will be finished with driving long before EV's replace ICE - enough stresses without adding range anxiety to them.

[Jocko]

Me too. Had my eyes tested today and the Optometrist said my eyes are still fit for driving. Just the knees and the brain I need worry about now!