Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: csp on November 24, 2019, 01:48:18 PM

Title: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: csp on November 24, 2019, 01:48:18 PM
What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at about £15500, I hope they are right as that would be a good starting price for a hybrid Jazz.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2020-honda-jazz-small-car-revealed-price-specs-and-release-date/n20376
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: olduser1 on November 24, 2019, 10:25:24 PM
I doubt UK will match the base price in Japan today Fit 1.3 petrol 1.455m yen approx £10.5k
Hybrid 2.118m yen about  £15.3.
UK near £18-19k with all the electrical addons
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Downsizer on November 25, 2019, 09:34:08 AM
I'm disappointed by the change to a digital instrument panel - personally I prefer a round speedo for instant information.  For the same reason, I wear an analogue watch.  However, digital is probably cheaper, and they need to reduce costs wherever possible to keep the price competitive.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on November 25, 2019, 10:29:24 AM
I like the look of this although I doubt if it will be available for less than £18,000 or so. Hybrid technology adds additional expense and hybrid versions of the Yaris are more expensive than bog standard petrol ones.

I can see me getting one when they start to appear on the used market. That's probably a couple of years away.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Jocko on November 25, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
I'm disappointed by the change to a digital instrument panel - personally I prefer a round speedo for instant information.
I was of the same frame of mind, but I fitted a digital GPS speedometer and I love it. Never glance near the analogue one now. Analogue watch is a different kettle of fish. You only look at that occasionally so the quicker you get an idea of the time the better.

(https://i.imgur.com/rRHd2Lb.jpg)
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: culzean on November 25, 2019, 11:35:23 AM
I'm disappointed by the change to a digital instrument panel - personally I prefer a round speedo for instant information.  For the same reason, I wear an analogue watch.  However, digital is probably cheaper, and they need to reduce costs wherever possible to keep the price competitive.

I would not swap the digital speedo on the Civic for anything,  it is super-easy to read at a glance - unlike an analogue one that needs more than a quick glance and some interpretation of needle position.  I also have a digital speedo on my motorbike which is easy to read,  and the rev counter is a horizontal bar type, also easy to read at a glance.    I do object putting controls that you need to access while car is moving ( heating and aircon - radio etc. ) on a centralised digital display though, this is dangerous as you have spend too much time fiddling as you drive.   I also miss the rotary knobs to directly adjust the temperature of air that is coming out of the vents rather than having the car doing its own thing and blowing hot or cold air out at its whim.  After a few miles we get air below ambient out of vents as the system controls the cabin temperature rather than the temp of air you want to be blowing on you.. hopeless - but automation rarely supplies what us mere humans want, just what some nerdy programmer thinks we ought to have.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on November 25, 2019, 02:30:31 PM
I'm with you on the digital speedo Culzean. I miss that from my Civic. I'm also with you on rotary knobs both on heating controls and on a radio - unfortunately I think we've lost that battle >:(
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Downsizer on November 25, 2019, 03:19:28 PM
I'm with you on the digital speedo Culzean. I miss that from my Civic. I'm also with you on rotary knobs both on heating controls and on a radio - unfortunately I think we've lost that battle >:(
No doubt I would soon get used to it.  In fact, 15 years ago we had a Yaris with a digital speedo, with a recessed mirror system so that you didn't have to refocus.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: John Ratsey on November 25, 2019, 04:34:43 PM
I like the look of this although I doubt if it will be available for less than £18,000 or so. Hybrid technology adds additional expense and hybrid versions of the Yaris are more expensive than bog standard petrol ones.
I believe that Honda's i-MMD system dispenses with a conventional gearbox so that should help offset the other additional costs of the hybrid system. The battery capacity will also affect the cost but it needs to be big enough to ensure efficient operation of the hybrid system under all conditions.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on November 25, 2019, 05:29:32 PM
Thanks for the info John. I've since checked out a few sites about the new system and it looks like a step change from Toyota's system which has typically been married to a CVT gearbox.

Re-assuringly Honda are giving a 5 year drivetrain warranty on this new system.

This might explain something I noticed on Youtube (but didn't watch) along the lines that the CVT gearbox's days were numbered - as, indeed, will all gearboxes once we get to full EVs.

I'm definitely going to have a test drive when the new Jazz is released.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Deejay on November 25, 2019, 06:26:18 PM
I used to own a Toyota Auris Hybrid, although the gearbox is called an eCVT it isn’t mechanically a CVT at all. It’s mechanically more like a differential, however it’s very like a CVT in feel.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: John Ratsey on November 25, 2019, 10:20:05 PM
I'm definitely going to have a test drive when the new Jazz is released.
I want to take a close look at the Crosstar version as it's claimed to be slightly higher (but doesn't look to be on the Honda UK website https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/jazz-hybrid/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/jazz-hybrid/overview.html)) as a possible successor to my HR-V. However, I would want to try for several hours during sunny weather as I found that I had a problem with reflection of dashboard on windscreen (something to do with eyeball position, I suspect). The HR-V has a steeper windoscreen angle and doesn't cause me the same problem.

However, provided my HR-V continues to behave itself I plan to wait and see if a successor appears. On paper the Jazz Crosstar will encroach on its territory and Honda UK may decide that it's not worthwhile offering both.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Jocko on November 26, 2019, 09:00:50 AM
It is supposed to have greater ground clearance but the Honda advert doesn't give that impression.
Have a look at their "slidy" photograph in the advert.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/jazz-hybrid/overview.html (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/coming-soon/jazz-hybrid/overview.html)
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Downsizer on November 26, 2019, 09:38:44 AM
The Crosstar is given a radiator grill, while the other versions have the smoother bonnet front, which previous posts suggested was to please the female buyers in Japan, as it looks less "macho"!  Is this a subtle form of sex-discrimination?
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: jazzaro on November 26, 2019, 10:00:08 AM
I'm disappointed by the change to a digital instrument panel - personally I prefer a round speedo for instant information.  For the same reason, I wear an analogue watch.  However, digital is probably cheaper, and they need to reduce costs wherever possible to keep the price competitive.
I agreed with you till some years ago, now my perfect instrument panel would have an analog RPM meter but a digital tachometer. Some recent cars, as peuegots, have both digital and analog tacho.
An analogue speedo is easier to see when speed or RPM change quickly, so you can follow how they change. But if speed changes slowly, a digital tacho is more precise and quick to read: you can immediately know if your speed is 72 or 73 or 74 mph, while an analog speedo needs to pay attention about the exact position of the needle.
The Crosstar is given a radiator grill, while the other versions have the smoother bonnet front, which previous posts suggested was to please the female buyers in Japan, as it looks less "macho"!  Is this a subtle form of sex-discrimination?
Women like round shapes and tall seats, many psychologist wrote about it. The k11 Nissan Micra (1992) and the Yaris Mk1 were admittedly designed for women; ask a generic woman if she prefer the Mk1 Jazz or the present GK3...
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Downsizer on November 26, 2019, 12:01:11 PM
Women like round shapes and tall seats, many psychologist wrote about it. The k11 Nissan Micra (1992) and the Yaris Mk1 were admittedly designed for women; ask a generic woman if she prefer the Mk1 Jazz or the present GK3...
Interesting. My wife had a Peugeot 205 followed by a 1992 Micra and then a Mk 1 Yaris.  I thought she chose them because of the excellence of the engineering!  She has to share the Mk3 Jazz now.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on January 13, 2020, 03:22:29 PM
When I was waiting to collect my car from its annual service today I asked a sales rep at Holdcroft Honda in Warrington about the Mk4 - especially when it would be released. He said they had a big stock, nationally, of the old Jazz to move on hence all the offers and heavy advertising you are seeing at the moment and this might influence the release date. He expected to see one at a Honda event for sales staff in March and the first demonstrators would arrive in dealerships late April/May time. No idea yet as to specs or prices but he expected an uplift but for the car to remain in the same ball park. Currently a base Jazz with a manual transmission was around £15,500 with the EX topping out at around £20,000. They tend to think the new Jazz will straddle this price range possibly starting at £17500 (ish) and topping out at around £23,000.

I mentioned, by the by, that the Honda EV looked as if it was going to be pricey and he said well north of £30,000. He described the market for this car as "niche" and they didn't expect to sell the car in any volume.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: sparky Paul on January 13, 2020, 05:50:00 PM
I mentioned, by the by, that the Honda EV looked as if it was going to be pricey and he said well north of £30,000. He described the market for this car as "niche" and they didn't expect to sell the car in any volume.

They certainly won't be selling one to me at 30 grand!

FWIW, a local-ish dealer is retailing a choice of pre-registered, delivery miles Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) for less than £22K. Sounds reasonable to me for what is basically a brand new EV, I can't see there being a lot of leeway on that price.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on January 13, 2020, 09:45:46 PM
On the Nissan Leaf thing, if you look at Chorley Motor Group (big Nissan Dealership with a few branches in the North West and a good reputation amongst Leaf buyers) they have loads, literally loads, of newish 40 kwh Leafs for sale, far more than they do of the old 24kwh and 30kwh models.

I'm wondering why this is? They can't all be ex demonstrators. Are they disappointing? There is a You Tuber called "Fancy a Bev Mate" and he uses one as a taxi and does seem to have had numerous issues.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: sparky Paul on January 13, 2020, 11:06:20 PM
On the Nissan Leaf thing, if you look at Chorley Motor Group (big Nissan Dealership with a few branches in the North West and a good reputation amongst Leaf buyers) they have loads, literally loads, of newish 40 kwh Leafs for sale, far more than they do of the old 24kwh and 30kwh models.

I'm wondering why this is? They can't all be ex demonstrators. Are they disappointing? There is a You Tuber called "Fancy a Bev Mate" and he uses one as a taxi and does seem to have had numerous issues.

These are in the East Midlands. They aren't even ex-demonstrators, some of them have less than ten miles on them. Your comment made me go and check the registration dates, they all seem to have been registered on either 29th or 30th of September, and have sat somewhere doing absolutely nothing for 3 months. It does seem a bit strange.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: jazzaro on January 13, 2020, 11:48:21 PM
I'm wondering why this is? They can't all be ex demonstrators.
Probably this is the result of CO2 fines.
UE set CO2 limits for manufacturers, based on the amount of CO2 of their sold cars; if the average CO2 is more than 95g/km, the manufacturer will pay fines for each car sold. BEV as Leaf and Zoe and all new BEVs to be presented are very good to decrease the average CO2 level, so manufacturers prefer to register this vehicles using a "self-sale" registering some cars to the dealer. Using this trick, they can demonstrate a number of sold vehicles even if they are not really sold, but they will avoid CO2 fines.
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: richardfrost on January 14, 2020, 08:15:38 AM
These are in the East Midlands. They aren't even ex-demonstrators, some of them have less than ten miles on them. Your comment made me go and check the registration dates, they all seem to have been registered on either 29th or 30th of September, and have sat somewhere doing absolutely nothing for 3 months. It does seem a bit strange.
Perhaps they were expecting all the Leafs to fall in Autumn.

#sorrynotsorry
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: Downsizer on January 14, 2020, 09:42:14 AM
I'm wondering why this is? They can't all be ex demonstrators.
Probably this is the result of CO2 fines.
UE set CO2 limits for manufacturers, based on the amount of CO2 of their sell cars; if the average CO2 is more than 95g/km, the manufacturer will pay fines for each car sell. BEV as Leaf and Zoe and all new BEVs to be presented are very good to decrease the average CO2 level, so manufacturers prefer to register this vehicles using a "self-sale" registering some cars to the dealer. Using this trick, they can demonstrate a number of sell vehicles even if they are not really sell, but they will avoid CO2 fines.
When the UK leaves the EU, the government will have to decide whether or not to continue this emissions averaging regime.  It could cause difficulties for manufacturers, as the "averaging pool" will be much smaller, and I suspect that current UK sales include a higher proportion of heavy emitters than the EU as a whole.  Manufacturers will therefore need to push sales of the smaller cleaner cars (eg EV's) and restrict sales of Chelsea tractors.  How sad!
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: jazzaro on January 14, 2020, 09:48:37 AM
When the UK leaves the EU, the government will have to decide whether or not to continue this emissions averaging regime.  It could cause difficulties for manufacturers, as the "averaging pool" will be much smaller, and I suspect that current UK sales include a higher proportion of heavy emitters than the EU as a whole.  Manufacturers will therefore need to push sales of the smaller cleaner cars (eg EV's) and restrict sales of Chelsea tractors.  How sad!
Fines come from UE to the manufacturer, not from the single state. If UK will be an "EFTA country" (european free trade association, as Switzerland Norway and Iceland) nothing will change for UK and the rest of UE. If not, fines will be set considering vehicles registered in EU without UK (https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94280/best-selling-cars-in-the-uk) and yes, maybe we will have less big carbon emitters so fines could be lower...
Title: Re: What car predicts Mk4 Jazz prices will start at £15500
Post by: peteo48 on January 14, 2020, 11:24:10 AM
The other thing, by the by, were the finance deals being offered on these nearly new Leafs. There was nothing, absolutely nothing, at less than £400 per month and some were over £500 per month.

At this price a very expensive form of virtue signalling. They really don't want you to buy them it seems.