Author Topic: Charging issues--  (Read 10490 times)

guest4871

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Re: Charging issues
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2020, 10:30:17 PM »
Culzean,

Forgot to thank you for this.

Found this article (USA) that kind of explains how complicated a modern battery charging system can be.... http://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1011&context=auto_pres.

Interesting read

Bob

For those of a more technical bent.

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2020, 08:04:12 PM »
I know this thread is old but I have noticed the same problem with my 2003 jazz.
My dash light does not come on but charge voltage varies as described with the added feature that, when it drops to 12.3v, any throttle input, when driving with no lights/accessories on, keeps charge voltage to 12.3v but as soon as there is no throttle input allows 14.4v.
Could a bad TPS cause this?

More importantly, is there an easy way to bypass the charge system controller to force continuous 14.4v to the battery?

Try this thread as well

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11400.msg75519#msg75519

You do not really want to keep charge voltage at 14.4v as this could damage battery...  Try turning lights, heated screen, mirrors on and other loads on and see if this alters the alternator output voltage..

Thanks... I went ahead & replaced the ELD which was very easy & until yesterday had no further problems.
However, yesterday my battery was flat.
I checked for parasitic drain & something is taking 11ish volts with everything off.  I tried removing each fuse in turn, except the screwed in one's, but found no change.
I'm guessing a broken wire? 
Sigh!
Checking every wire in that tiny engine bay is going to be a massive pain!
Any suggestions on where to start?

John Ratsey

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2020, 06:33:19 PM »
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

VicW

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2020, 07:02:10 PM »
I checked for parasitic drain & something is taking 11ish volts with everything off.  I tried removing each fuse in turn, except the screwed in one's, but found no change.

Where did you measure the 11volts that you quote ? It sounds as though you are measuring the battery voltage and at 11v that is low with no load on the battery. Have you said how old the battery is ?

Vic.

culzean

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2020, 07:37:55 PM »
Silly question have you fitted a new battery ?

The only way to measure parasitic load is to remove battery clamp and put an ammeter in line with the battery terminal post and the cable you just took off the battery,  the drain should be in the mA range ( 1000ths of an amp, 250mA = 1/4 amp ).  Normal battery drain with ignition off should be less than 50 to 75mA - obviously the lower the better.

Can't measure leakage in volts. 

maybe one of these will help, https://www.ringautomotive.com/en/product/rms7  it has  4 LED lights to show battery voltage -   you can get these multi-sockets with up to 4 sockets,  which helps if you have satnav etc.   I did a link to a Ring one from Halfords with 2 sockets and 2 USB sockets and 4 LED in previous thread that fits in Jazz cup holder, but that link now goes to a normal cup-holder and I cannot find it on Halfords site Grrrrr...

« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 07:47:53 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2020, 09:37:12 PM »
I checked for parasitic drain & something is taking 11ish volts with everything off.  I tried removing each fuse in turn, except the screwed in one's, but found no change.
I'm guessing a broken wire? 
Sigh!
Checking every wire in that tiny engine bay is going to be a massive pain!
Any suggestions on where to start?
Going by your post I think it safe to say you have little understanding of vehicle electrics. Save yourself a load of hassle. Fit a new battery and don't mess with what you don't understand. I am not trying to be an @rse, just trying to save you a load of hardship.

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2020, 09:20:13 AM »
I checked for parasitic drain & something is taking 11ish volts with everything off.  I tried removing each fuse in turn, except the screwed in one's, but found no change.
I'm guessing a broken wire? 
Sigh!
Checking every wire in that tiny engine bay is going to be a massive pain!
Any suggestions on where to start?
Going by your post I think it safe to say you have little understanding of vehicle electrics. Save yourself a load of hassle. Fit a new battery and don't mess with what you don't understand. I am not trying to be an @rse, just trying to save you a load of hardship.
Haha, that's really helpful, thanks for your input.

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2020, 09:40:14 AM »
Silly question have you fitted a new battery ?

The only way to measure parasitic load is to remove battery clamp and put an ammeter in line with the battery terminal post and the cable you just took off the battery,  the drain should be in the mA range ( 1000ths of an amp, 250mA = 1/4 amp ).  Normal battery drain with ignition off should be less than 50 to 75mA - obviously the lower the better.

Can't measure leakage in volts. 

maybe one of these will help, https://www.ringautomotive.com/en/product/rms7  it has  4 LED lights to show battery voltage -   you can get these multi-sockets with up to 4 sockets,  which helps if you have satnav etc.   I did a link to a Ring one from Halfords with 2 sockets and 2 USB sockets and 4 LED in previous thread that fits in Jazz cup holder, but that link now goes to a normal cup-holder and I cannot find it on Halfords site Grrrrr...
Yes, I checked with a DMM in series with the battery positive.  Amp reading '1' which I think means outside of range (it's a 10amp max DMM). Checked in voltage just to confirm there is an circuit.
Just to be clear, I have fitted a new alternator, battery & ELD in the last 6 months.  These all seem to be working as they should except for the battery discharging overnight.


Jocko

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2020, 09:57:50 AM »
Did the battery terminal spark when you disconnected it? If it is drawing more than 10 amps it should have done.

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2020, 10:01:21 AM »
Did the battery terminal spark when you disconnected it? If it is drawing more than 10 amps it should have done.

Yep... I've left it disconnected for now.  Bit worried about possible fire if there's a short somewhere.

csp

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2020, 10:41:56 AM »
It should be possible to measure current without disconnecting the battery lead, by using a clamp on meter, although DC current clamp on meters are quite expensive and are best for higher current applications.

AC Clamp on meters use a split transformer but DC clamp on meters use active sensors.

An example of a clamp on meter can be seen on ebay but this type of meter is probably not actually suitable for lower mA leakage measurements

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UK-fit-for-Bside-ACM91-1mA-Digital-Clamp-Meter-DC-AC-Current-Volt-Ohm-Multimeter/293298351053?hash=item4449f1abcd:g:7FQAAOSwNNVdtB2n

culzean

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2020, 05:16:47 PM »
With a current that high looks like a relay may be stuck.  A relay is a device where you can switch a very small current via a small switch to a magnetic coil ( often 50millamps or such ) and the magnetic coil attracts an armature attached to heavy electrical contacts capable of switching over 40 amps typically.  The feed to the coil ( the control signal ) is fed via a small switch on dashboard or on steering wheel stalk and 'relays' the signal to the device you want to operate ( heated screen, headlights, aircon system etc ) - the power to the the switch that operates the relays is fed via the ignition switch,  so disappears when ignition is turned off.  However the feed to the heavy relay contacts comes straight from battery via a fuse and is still live when ignition is off.  The heavy contacts are supposed to be opened with a spring when no power to relay coil,  but sometimes the armature sticks and contacts stay closed,  this can keep power flowing from battery to the load even with ignition off.  Aircon clutch can draw 3 amps,  headlights 10 amps,  heated screen over 10 amps etc.

You need to locate relays in fusebox and while someone watching the ammeter pull them out one at a time and see if the load drops.  Problem is that often the relay will not stick every time but do so occasionally - which makes it pot luck if you can find it - the relays are not normally expensive though and maybe on an older car may be due for replacement anyway as a precaution.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2020, 05:51:37 PM »
Thanks culzean,

I had done the old fuse/relay pulling test prior to posting & tried again this morning with no luck but then I noticed my DMM giving a reading of 13+ volts across the battery & remembered that I hadn't changed the DMM internal battery for years. Whoops!  I did that later & now it reads correct so when I get a chance I'll try the testing again.  I can't park near my house which makes things a bit tricky in the current situation.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions so far :-)

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2020, 06:21:09 PM »
I checked for parasitic drain & something is taking 11ish volts with everything off.  I tried removing each fuse in turn, except the screwed in one's, but found no change.

Thanks,
Yes that Aircon relay is looking more suspicious by the minute.
I'll be checking that again now my DMM is fixed :-)

Where did you measure the 11volts that you quote ? It sounds as though you are measuring the battery voltage and at 11v that is low with no load on the battery. Have you said how old the battery is ?

Vic.

seasidesoulish

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Re: Charging issues--
« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2020, 01:40:49 PM »
Well I got a new DMM with a higher amp rating. But in the meantime my radio/clock has stopped working. 
Also front washer.
 I checked the washer pump wire under load & no voltage.  All fuses still fine.

Now there seems to be no battery drain.

I'm guessing the wiper switch has gone bad because a few months back the wipers suddenly stopped until I put them on 'fast', then they were ok again.

 Looking at the manual, it seems there is no wiper relay as such, it's all done in the switch.

I've ordered a used switch but my question is...

How do you get the switch out?  I see 3 screws in the bottom cowling is there more to it?

Also, what about the airbag, do I have to disconnect it somewhere?

Thanks 

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