Author Topic: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light  (Read 904 times)

honda28

  • New Member
  • Posts: 5
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 2004
Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« on: June 16, 2022, 05:36:01 PM »
Hello. I had this problem for a long time now but still drove it for about 2 years with the same problem, the problem is that when the car is at red light or in a parking lot not being driven the idle fluctuates up and down. its jumping from like about 500 to 800 rpm, no problems while being driven tho, no stalling or any sort of thing everything is smooth when it's being driven, the only thing I would say that the car is accelerating pretty slow maybe but I don't know if that's the limit of the car or the issue may cause worse performance. And also the fluctuating idle begins when car warms up, when it is cold the idle is not jumping up and down, in the winter obviously it warms up more slowly but in summer now it's only for a short time when it is working fine, car will warm up and when you stop at red you can notice the jumping idle while it's in neutral gear, the car also vibrates when its happening. I scanned the error codes and there was 5 of them: P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304. I added a screenshot of the scan result with the torque app. And also here's a short clip how the engine looks like and sounds like when it's warm: So it only happens when the car is stopped, tried to press the accelerate in neutral gear, holding it from 1,2,3 thousand rpms continuously no shakes no vibrations everything is smooth and fine, its only when you leave it alone the rpm's fluctuates. What likely could be the cause of this? Does anybody have experience with such issues? I am on budget but I want to fix the car till it's not completely damaged from this issue. The car was driven for about 7k km's in the past 2~ years , all spark plugs were changed in 2020 when I bought the car, so the spark plugs have like about 7k~ kilometers on them so I don't know if they are the issue, recently the oil and air filters were changed but nothing else. What should I do? Any suggestions? I kinda want to have some ideas before going to a mechanic or a car repair service because in my past experience with services that they will look at unnecessary things and may not even fix the car, so if someone have some ideas that would be very helpful. Thank you.

CRC

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2003 1.4 SE Manual
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2022, 07:30:19 PM »
Your error codes are saying that random misfires have been detected on all four cylinders.

Suggest cleaning the egr valve first - two 12 mm bolts and a bit of contact cleaner - very easy, takes about 10 minutes.

The Haynes manual says that the idle speed is controlled by the ECU and the way it does it depends on the type of throttle control fitted to the car.

On electronic throttle control cars, the idle speed is controlled by the ECU opening the throttle if needed.

All other models have a ECU controlled idle air control valve fitted to the throttle body which allows more air in to raise the idle speed.





CRC

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2003 1.4 SE Manual
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2022, 05:50:11 PM »
I had a look at ours today using an OBD II scanner just to see what information was available on Live Data. The reader showed

Water temperature
Air temperature
Throttle position
Manifold air pressure

Also the O2 sensor voltages and long and short term fuel trims, which probably won't be of much interest in this case.

Might be an idea to have a quick look at the others?

olduser1

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1544
  • Country: 00
  • My Honda: Jazz EX 2015 CVT Elite Pack
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2022, 06:59:18 AM »
Why not take yourJazz to an autoelectrician? Ask around locally who the trade use .

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8404
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2022, 10:50:35 PM »
When you say the plugs were changed I assume you mean all eight.
Check for an air leak at any of the myriad of small pipes connected to the intake. A perished or loose pipe there would cause the tick over to fluctuate. Listen with a piece of small bore pipe held close to your ear.

honda28

  • Topic Starter
  • New Member
  • Posts: 5
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 2004
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2022, 09:54:58 AM »
Well, I took the car to the car service before writing this post too, all they said that they didn't find anything "bad" so..  :) As far as I read misfire error codes sounds like something really bad. They checked the spark plugs and said they were fine, so I don't even know if I should trust them at this point. Well I could buy 8 spark plugs they only are about 2-3 euros each sot that's not expensive, but I was reading honda jazz 2004 service manual and it said that spark plugs can be damaged by defective ignition coil, so is it worth trying to replace all 8 spark plugs? And also I took the car 1 year ago also to the car service and they could not fix the issue all they were mumbling about air leak but I did not have knowledge about it back then, all they said that it's pretty long and expensive job so I did not have money back then to leave the car for them. Currently I am thinking about changing spark plugs, ignition coils, and checking valve clearance adjustment.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8404
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2006 GD5 Jazz 1.2 i-DSi S in Vivid Blue Pearl
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2022, 07:35:48 PM »
To change 8 ignition coils is quite expensive. And the front ones are different from the rears. I had an issue with a reported misfire (never ever felt anything) and after suffering it for many months, replacing all eight plugs and coils on the suspect cylinder - all to no avail - I had to replace the middle section of the exhaust for a small leak at a pipe bracket. After that, I had no issues and 6 months on I have had no re-occurrence of the fault.

honda28

  • Topic Starter
  • New Member
  • Posts: 5
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 2004
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2022, 08:39:01 PM »
Strange thing today. Yesterday I decided to check coolant levels and they were low, I added some yesterday. The idle rpm problems were still there so the check light(after adding coolant). Today I decided to check the ignition coil just to inspect it wanted to unscrew it but forgot my 10mm screw plug so the only thing I did I just disconnected the plug from the coil and plugged it back because I did not have tools to continue the work. So I sat in the car, and yesterday I downloaded a different OBD2 app because with the Torque app there was no option to check misfire count, I hoped that the new app would give the measurements but it didn't. And then I just decided to clear error codes once again cleared the error codes just for no reason and surprisingly the rpms were stable around 600, no check light. Well I did not care about it because couple weeks ago I did delete the codes and literally nothing changed, the check light came instantly again after starting the engine and the idle issue was not gone. But strangely this time not only it did not came back, I drove about 5km's around and it still did not come back, stopped the car, idle is perfectly still at around 600~. Thinking now what is up about this inconsistency? Couldn't damaged ignition coils or spark plugs or vacuum leak always give the misfire issue and check light consistently no matter what until they are fixed? Why would the honda just work fine right now out of nowhere especially after driving for a little, no check light or anything, it always came instantly no matter what until today.  Could have it been that the coolant levels were low? But the problems were still there after adding it, I just cleared the codes today, could the combination of adding coolant because its low and then clearing the code so the computer wont interact somehow with the old information before code clearance? Well I guess I will see if it will come back when I will drive it tomorrow or whatever.

CRC

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2003 1.4 SE Manual
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2022, 11:18:36 PM »
https://www.springbokphotography.com/autoelectrical/2019/7/15/honda-fitjazz-crank-sensor-interference

I recently posted this link in another thread. They found that one of the exhaust side coil packs was causing interference on the signal from the crankshaft sensor resulting in misfires and error codes.

You say that you disconnected an ignition coil pack and things went back to normal, but you don't say which one.

Was it by any chance the one that they identified in the link? If it was, then there's a good chance that was the source of your problem.

Sounds like one new coil pack on the offending plug, or rerouting the crankshaft sensor cable will solve the problem as they detail.

One way to confirm would be to re-instate the coil pack and use the Torque app to look at engine rpm. If it's varying massively, then I would say that's your problem.

honda28

  • Topic Starter
  • New Member
  • Posts: 5
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 2004
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2022, 11:46:38 PM »
Well that period of no check engine light and rpm fluctuations didn't last long after clearing the codes with OBD tool. Somewhere after 120~km's All codes came back instead of P0302, which is kinda confusing because I had only P0302 code when I scanned before, and now its on other cylinders. And after that 130~km period without problems today I scanned the codes again cuz check engine came back and it registered P0401 code which was not there before when I first scanned the car which showed P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304 at that time. Could bad EGR valve cause all of these issues? That EGR valve looks very very old, I tried to unscrew to clean it but the screw was so bad I couldn't unscrew it no matter what and I stopped trying to further damaging the screw, the screw was very worn so I didn't want to ruin it even further. I'm taking the car to a service once again, I hope they will fix the issue.. which I'm kinda skeptical because they are always... sorry for my language.. full of bullshit :D , either they don't fix the problem or either do so some unnecessary **********.

honda28

  • Topic Starter
  • New Member
  • Posts: 5
  • My Honda: Honda Jazz 1.4 2004
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2022, 08:59:51 AM »
Took the car to the autoservice they couldn't find anything, just replaced all 8 spark plugs, picked the car up and it ran worse than before probably lol. But they recommended me a guy who worked with petrol engines for 25 years and has expensive diagnostic system/tools. Gave the car to him, couple hours later he called and he said it was fixed. I was very tired in that period with throbbing headache and couldn't remember what exactly he said but I think he just programmed something with his diagnostic computer? Maybe there was issue with the car computer not working correctly or something, also he found that after the fixing the car he said some strange issue came up with camshaft sensor, so he said if the engine light will ever come back because he wasn't sure if the sensor should be replaced if it works fine then there is no point to replacing but there may be a chance that I will need to replace camshaft sensor which costs about 40-80$ in the future. So yeah. It costed around 55$ from him to fix the honda. So the problem was in computer I guess. The car runs so smooth now, I thought the clutch was in bad shape but it turns out it was the misfires from all cylinders that affected the overall driving experience. Engine is also like 2 times more silent when it warms up, the idle is stable, there are no more shakings in 1-2 gears which I thought also was issue with clutch or gearbox. The only thing that I noticed that when the AC is on and the radiator fan turns every 1 mins the idle starts to fluctuate again in idle but without check engine light and not a lot like in 50-70~ rpm range?, I don't know if its normal. So yeah.. 55$ fix and the car runs very smooth now. I thought about vacuum leaks, ignition coils but that guy did a good job with his diagnostic tools.. My only guess is that he programmed and trained the ECU to work correctly without misfires? I don't know much about this car because I bought it 2 years ago and it was ported from another country so there may be many causes why could that fix work, maybe the ECU was replaced or engine was replaced and it needed a correction with proper diagnostic tools.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 09:06:17 AM by honda28 »

embee

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 563
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2018 Jazz SE CVT
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2022, 10:43:58 AM »
Glad it's fixed, hope it keeps that way.  :D

cristispot

  • New Member
  • Posts: 9
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Jazz GD
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2022, 08:17:54 AM »
Glad it is all sorted, i know how stressful it can be not having your car running properly.

Regarding your fan and idle when AC is on that's normal. When your fan starts, it draws more power and the idle goes a bit lower for a fraction of a second then the car revs back up trying to correct and maintain a stable voltage.

CRC

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2003 1.4 SE Manual
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2022, 06:16:16 PM »
My only guess is that he programmed and trained the ECU to work correctly without misfires?

He's very good if he did that ..... the software in the ECU will generally either work fine or not at all, though I notice that there seems to be an issue in the post 2009 VTEC models relating to injectors going to low resistance and taking out one of the ECU outputs, but that's not a software fix, that's a hardware fix.

Having said that, he obviously knows his stuff and he's very reasonable .... I think I'd buy him a bottle of wine as well .... keep him sweet for the next problem.

FBogdan

  • New Member
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: ro
  • My Honda: Jazz
Re: Honda Jazz 2004 Idle problem and Check Light
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2022, 07:38:01 PM »
https://www.springbokphotography.com/autoelectrical/2019/7/15/honda-fitjazz-crank-sensor-interference

Thank you for this link, i really appreciate your support!
I'm having the same problem with a Honda Jazz GD CVT. - unstable idle rpms and check engine light on. I've tried almost everything: changing spark plugs (all of them), ignition coils (all of them), re-programming throttle body, valve clearance, new gaskets on intake manifold, EGR cleaning, etc.
The car runs smooth but when it's stopped at red lights and  in Drive, the idle goes crazy sometimes, regardless if the AC is on or not, more accentuated and often when it's hot outside.
Cheers!

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top