Acceleration In First Gear

[Derkie54]

Enjoying the Jazz although one thing I would like is better acceleration in first gear, I know it's done for economy using the atkinson cycle, all the other gears are fine......what do others think ?

When I'm at the traffice lights the other cars in front seem to pull away or overtake sometimes if I'm at the front of the queue and it's not because I'm driving slowly. Once I'm in second and third everything is fine.

During the day it's not such a problem but in rush hour traffic everbody is on a mission trying to get to work.

I tried using the revs but it all seems a bit frantic so now I try to get into second as soon as possible after I pull away and this seems to work for me.

Must admit you're never going to keep up with the hybrid & electric cars !

[richardfrost]

now I try to get into second as soon as possible after I pull away and this seems to work for me.

Had two Jazzes. This is the best strategy, once the wheels are turning, there's no need to be in 1st.

[Jocko]

My Mk 1 is the same. As soon as the wheels are turning I am into second. 1st is for parking!

[Westy36]

If I need to make a sharp move off from a stop, I will happily take my Jazz to 3k rpm before changing into 2cnd. A decent amount of throttle, and it will move quite briskly and keep up with traffic. Mainly I am happy to find 2cnd sooner though.

Given that I average 52+ mpg in daily use, I clearly give my Jazz a fairly easy life. 

I've yet to try a MK3 Jazz, so it will be interesting to see the difference in the driving experience

[SuperCNJ]

Enjoying the Jazz although one thing I would like is better acceleration in first gear, I know it's done for economy using the atkinson cycle, all the other gears are fine......what do others think ?

When I'm at the traffice lights the other cars in front seem to pull away or overtake sometimes if I'm at the front of the queue and it's not because I'm driving slowly. Once I'm in second and third everything is fine.

During the day it's not such a problem but in rush hour traffic everbody is on a mission trying to get to work.

I tried using the revs but it all seems a bit frantic so now I try to get into second as soon as possible after I pull away and this seems to work for me.

Must admit you're never going to keep up with the hybrid & electric cars !

The problem is, as is the case for most hondas, there is very little torque at low revs. The Jazz is probably one of the worst as it is designed for economy and also low price. I can relate to what you're experiencing at the traffic lights. I had this problem even with my old Civic Type-R, you do need to rev the car harder to get going. Another problem with the Jazz is that the perception of speed is different. 30mph seems much faster in a Jazz than it does in say a european car so although you may think you're going fast, it's not actually that fast relative to other cars.

I decided to remap my Civic Type-R at the time to increase the torque at low rpm which made a big difference, I no longer had to rev too hard to get going. Not suggesting you do this for the Jazz, but if it is annoying you then it may be an option to consider.

[swhull]

Can’t say I’ve been that bothered about 1st gear acceleration in my mk2, I tend to rev it to 3k and change to 2nd and don’t feel it’s that slow getting speed up, not that I’m fussed about holding anyone up behind me on the morning commute, they  should get up a few minutes earlier in the morning if they’re wanting to rush to work! 

[nowster]

The only problematic time I had in my Mk2 was when it was heavily laden and also carrying a heavy passenger. A very steep hill just after a ford near Bangor (if you know the area you'll know where I mean) defeated the engine in first. I just got over the top on the third or fourth attempt.

[TonyO]

The lack if acceleration doesn't worry me too much.  The noise that enters the cabin during acceleration is more concerning to me. In 40 years of driving it's the worst I have heard.  It does settle down when cruising so I'm happy enough overall.

[Jocko]

I have a Mk 1  and I am glad because from what I have read on this site the Mk 2 and Mk 3 must be  hell of a noisy cars. I find cars around me contribute as much to the noise in my car as the noise generated by my car. My biggest noise issues are not engine noise but tiny rattles from behind the dashboard, that seem to come and go intermittently.

[d2d4j]

Hi

We have a 2014 jazz si and I have never noticed the engine noise. Sorry I am never sure if this is mk2 or mk3

When stationary, sometimes I have to look at rev counter to see if engine is running

If you need hard acceleration, every vehicle I have driven becomes noisy

I fitted a stainless steel exhaust pipe which is meant to be tuned to give a growl but to be honest, sounds like a wet fart but I think looks good (not a cheap china one)

Lastly, I have noticed over years, if I turn on cruise control in 5th gear at 30mph, it handles the hills with no issue, if I try with no cruise control, the engine starts to labour and have to drop a gear to maintain 30 mph

Ours is a manual gear box

I also accelerate through the gears to 6000 rpm in 1st then 2nd gear about once every couple of months but only joining a suitable road such as motorway or A1, so it is a short burst

Many thanks

John

[culzean]

We have a 2014 jazz si and I have never noticed the engine noise. Sorry I am never sure if this is mk2 or mk3

There was an original Jazz many years ago,  which some refer to as the MK1,  but many ignore and refer to 2002 t0 2008 Jazz as the MK1, 2008 to 2015 as MK2 etc. - confusing because some parts suppliers still refer to original Jazz as MK1, but the date of car is the key, and many parts sites go by date.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Jazz

[culzean]

I have a Mk 1  and I am glad because from what I have read on this site the Mk 2 and Mk 3 must be  hell of a noisy cars. I find cars around me contribute as much to the noise in my car as the noise generated by my car. My biggest noise issues are not engine noise but tiny rattles from behind the dashboard, that seem to come and go intermittently.

IMHO the iDSi twin spark was a much underrated engine and perfect for the Jazz,  it was capable ( as you have shown ) of great MPG and was a much easier drive than the later engines, which although of higher power on paper need to be revved to get to that power.  The Jazz is not a sports car, my wife would love the Idsi engine in her MK2 Si.

[peteo48]

It's interesting although my input is not strictly relevant because I have the CVT. The CVT, unless you mash the accelerator pedal into the carpet is noticeably slower of the mark than almost any car I've owned. I judge this by the fact that, at the lights, the car in front, whatever it is, seems to surge ahead much faster.

That said it's a temporary thing, you soon catch up and, overall, it doesn't bother me. Not having the engineering expertise is this something to do with the Atkinson cycle?

One thing for sure is that Honda have certainly removed this issue in the new hybrid cars. I've read and watched several reviews of the Mk4 and the Cross star and the almost doubling in torque from previous models is, apparently, very evident to the point that wheel spin can be an issue!

[E27006]

IMHO the iDSi twin spark was a much underrated engine and perfect for the Jazz,  it was capable ( as you have shown ) of great MPG and was a much easier drive than the later engines, which although of higher power on paper need to be revved to get to that power.  The Jazz is not a sports car, my wife would love the Idsi engine in her MK2 Si.

I test drove  the Vtec Jazz  (2009) as Honda discontinued the Dsi, to my sorrow   I just could not get along with the engine characteristics, later  I purchased  a Dsi just because it was  far easier to drive.  Inexplicably  Honda claim Vtec and Dsi have the same characteristics  for torque curves below 3000 rpm, I found that hard to believe,  the Vtec just struggled along where the Dsi ran sweetly in high gears below 3000 rpm, that was my comment to salesman,  right car with the wrong engine, a pity Honda did not offer a choice of engines,  the entry level  1.2 Vtec but with a Dsi engine

[embee]

I don't know any of this for sure, it's educated guesswork, but I "think" the throttle calibration has a rate-of-change function regarding response to pedal input. I do find the behaviour somewhat variable and unpredictable, if you ease the pedal down a little it seems to respond very gradually and to a fairly limited extent (on the basis that you are driving "gently"). If you stab the pedal more rapidly, even if the travel isn't particularly big, it seems to respond to a significantly greater extent (on the basis that you want to get more of a move on).
In other words, in my mind it seems to give more throttle response for the same pedal movement if you move it quickly than if you move it slowly. Now that impression may be wrong, but it's what I perceive.

The trouble with electronically controlled systems (throttle/CVT) is that the algorithms can be anything the engineers want and don't even need to be consistent, it can respond differently depending on any input either steady state or transient, step change or ramp, different temperature, road speed or transmission ratio etc etc. Sometimes just because something can be done it doesn't mean it should. At least with analogue systems the user can know how it responds, a lever is a lever, electrons are more nebulous.

I find the CVT Jazz seems to lull you into a gentle style of driving just because of how it responds, a true "old f@rt's" car. Fortunately I am one.