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Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 07:12:50 AM

Title: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 07:12:50 AM
I see loads of early morning joggers, when I take Mrs Jocko to work at 06:20. Summer or winter, dry, rain or snow, dark or light, they are there every morning. I have yet to see a happy one. They all look like they are suffering and about to pass out at any time. Scowls or grimaces on their faces.
I read somewhere, that the amount of time added to a joggers life, roughly equates to the amount of time he or she spent jogging. So those extra couple of years, struggling about with your zimmer, were paid for by pounding the pavements, in the cold and wet, face twisted in a grimace. As you may be able to tell, I am no fan of jogging.
As an aside. When I typed the title to this thread I initially typed "hoppy jogger", and when I ran the spell checker it offered me several alternatives - but not happy. Does that mean the spell checker has never seen a "happy jogger" either?
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: ColinB on May 10, 2018, 08:43:04 AM
What’s your point ? Why should it matter - to you or to anyone else - whether a jogger looks “happy” or not ? The point is, they are taking exercise intended to help with their general fitness and health, and jogging is their exercise of choice. Their objective is to avoid or reverse the modern scourges of obesity, heart disease, T2 diabetes, etc. Whether or not they look “happy” to an outsider is probably completely irrelevant to them and is certainly completely irrelevant to their health. Do you have a problem with someone trying to maintain their health, if so what is it ?

Out of interest, as you don’t like jogging, what sort of exercise do you take in order to comply with the NHS guidelines (https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/fitness/Pages/physical-activity-guidelines-for-adults.aspx) ?
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: guest5079 on May 10, 2018, 09:12:21 AM
Clearly Jocko touched a nerve. Yes we are bombarded with all sorts of ideas in order to keep fit. Unfortunately for some it is not possible. To the enthusiastic Jogger no doubt would be looked upon as excuses.
My Wife suffers from TWO auto immune illnesses, She with the Drs help took up aqua aerobics only to be stopped as exercise caused Fibromyalgia, for the uninitiated  is a build up of Lactic Acid in the muscles causing severe pain and damage if ignored. The idea of the Aqua aerobics is the joints are supported. So apart from no alcohol and avoidance of sugar and watching her diet not much can be done. Me, I received a few knocks doing my job and it has left me with problems of joints and muscles. Even the medics can't help. I too have to avoid alcohol and watch my diet. So before having a swipe just because Jocko mentioned something about joggers, think of those that have no possibility of even being able to walk to the local shop. They are not necessarily lazy just not as fortunate as those 'unhappy' looking joggers. Personally it seems jogging is like Facebook, smart phonee and the like, it's something to talk about in the pub. There I have given the opening to allsorts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have the greatest admiration for those  very brave men and women who various nations have damaged. They have  managed to overcome their disabilities. Please don't think Jogging is the be all and end all. In many cases it has been proved by experts to be very damaging.  Having just read Jocko's reply I think it answers the remarks by Colin B beautifully. After all he was only making a comment, it is I that has put the cat amongst the pigeons
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
I started a tongue in cheek thread and immediately got shot down in flames!
At 70 I have done all the exercise I intend doing. Until I was 60 I walked 10,000 steps every shift. Five, sometimes more, days a week. I played golf twice a week, summer and winter (until my knees gave out). In fact, in the summer I often managed five games a week.
Now, apart from walking, and the occasional cycle, my main exercise seems to be getting in and out of a car or van, umpteen times a day. But hey ho, suits me.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: ColinB on May 10, 2018, 12:06:08 PM
Touched a nerve indeed ! Hey, we might even have a discussion going here.

Auntyneddy:
My comment did not mention in any way people who are unable to exercise for whatever reason, nor did I imply anything about about them being “lazy”. Of course I understand that there are people who - through no fault of their own - are unable to comply with what the NHS would like them to do. But Jocko was specifically commenting on the appearance of people he had seen who are trying to comply, and I still don’t see why that should be an issue for him or for anyone else.

Jocko:
F**k all.
Nope, I still don’t know what you’re getting at:
1. Is that a general response to my whole comment ? If so, lighten up, this is a discussion forum so you need to be prepared for people to challenge your comments. That’s not “shooting you down in flames”, that’s trying to find out more about your views so we can have an intelligent discussion. There is absolutely no need to respond with an obscenity, that is a sign of someone unable to express an opinion and you don’t sound like that at all.
2. Is that a response to my specific question about why you think joggers must present a happy face ? If so it still doesn’t tell me why.
3. Is that a response to my query about your exercise routine ? If so your subsequent comment has clarified so thank you. Personally I don’t agree with your philosophy but hey ho we’re all different, eg my 94-yr old father has just taken up bowls to ensure he continues to get at least some exercise, so it’s never too late and it’s working for him.

Since we seem to have strayed into the broader topic of exercise and the NHS: I went to a comedy gig last year by a doctor who still works part time in the NHS but also somehow finds the time to pursue a parallel career as a stand-up and general health pundit. His theme was “Save the NHS!”. But he didn’t want the government to pour more and more cash into it, because it’s a bottomless pit and no amount of money would ever be enough. No, his solution was not to use it. By that he meant that we all have a responsibility to look after our own health and do our best to remain fit and healthy so that we don’t clog up the NHS with avoidable illnesses. That will leave more resource for those unfortunates who really need it’s services. So that’s what these “unhappy” joggers are trying to do, they ought to be encouraged. The more of them there are now, the more likely it is that the NHS will be able to cope when you or I need it.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: peteo48 on May 10, 2018, 12:07:28 PM
It does seem a miserable pursuit but, equally, my daughter claims to enjoy it! I prefer walking and, at my age, it's much more tolerable. I have put in place a scheme to ensure I walk for at least 20 minutes a day by picking up my morning paper rather than have it delivered. I also do some light weights about 3 times a week and I do mean light weights!
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 10, 2018, 12:36:40 PM
F**k all.
Nope, I still don’t know what you’re getting at:
1. Is that a general response to my whole comment ? If so, lighten up, this is a discussion forum so you need to be prepared for people to challenge your comments. That’s not “shooting you down in flames”, that’s trying to find out more about your views so we can have an intelligent discussion. There is absolutely no need to respond with an obscenity, that is a sign of someone unable to express an opinion and you don’t sound like that at all.
2. Is that a response to my specific question about why you think joggers must present a happy face ? If so it still doesn’t tell me why.
3. Is that a response to my query about your exercise routine ? If so your subsequent comment has clarified so thank you.

It seems fairly obvious to me that Jocko was indeed responding to your enquiry regarding his exercise routine.

I think the onion has it

https://www.theonion.com/new-study-finds-running-for-20-minutes-each-day-could-a-1819576755
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: ColinS on May 10, 2018, 01:02:27 PM
I follow the NHS guidelines for nourishment.  I eat 5 slices of carrot cake a day.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 01:40:24 PM
It seems fairly obvious to me that Jocko was indeed responding to your enquiry regarding his exercise routine.
Exactly. I live in a flat, 48 stairs up. My toilet is another 14 stairs up. By the I have been out and back my usual 5 or 6 times a day, plus coping with a 70 year old prostrate, I have done more than enough exercise for anyone my age.

With regard to the NHS being a bottomless money pit, I agree 100%. I worked my final 5 years before retiring with the NHS, in their Estates Department (building and equipment maintenance). Having come from a lifetime of working in maintenance in industry the NHS was a culture shock. I came from a background where a thing breaks you fix it, it breaks a second time there is a court of enquiry, it breaks a third time and you engineer the problem out. In the NHS we were doing the same repairs, sometimes day in day out. There was no rush, parts were bought without question, good money was thrown after bad.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: richardfrost on May 10, 2018, 01:47:14 PM
I follow the NHS guidelines for nourishment.  I eat 5 slices of carrot cake a day.
Hate to disappoint you Colin but the advice is more specific than 5 fruit or veg per day. They have to be different.

So I prescribe per day:

Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: ColinS on May 10, 2018, 01:49:39 PM
I follow the NHS guidelines for nourishment.  I eat 5 slices of carrot cake a day.
Hate to disappoint yuo Colin but the advice is more specific than 5 fruit or veg per day. They have to be different.

So I prescribe per day:

  • One slice of carrot cake
  • One piece of pumpkin pie
  • Raspberry Trifle
  • A Strawberry Fool
  • A bag of chips

LOL - That works
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: richardfrost on May 10, 2018, 01:59:19 PM
I am a happy jogger. As soon as I have finished I even look happy. But during a run, it's quite hard work so I tend not to look too happy. Especially on a long or big hill.

I run for my mental health. It is a fantastic feeling being out on the moors, miles from home, having got there under the power of your own feet. It is also exhilarating being in the open air.

The real benefit comes from the natural release of endorphins in the brain which comes from most forms of exercise. Endurance running (which is what most 'joggers' are doing, i.e. not track running and longer than 1500 metres) can also create what is called a 'runner's high', which is a fantastic feeling of happiness and elation which can last for moments or sometimes for the rest of your run. Following a run, for up to two days, you get a general feeling of mental wellness. It is the search for this that keeps us running. It is very addictive.

Running is a very poor exercise if you are looking to lose weight. But a great exercise if you are looking to lose a weight off your mind.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 04:23:11 PM
The real benefit comes from the natural release of endorphins in the brain which comes from most forms of exercise. Endurance running (which is what most 'joggers' are doing, i.e. not track running and longer than 1500 metres) can also create what is called a 'runner's high', which is a fantastic feeling of happiness and elation which can last for moments or sometimes for the rest of your run. Following a run, for up to two days, you get a general feeling of mental wellness. It is the search for this that keeps us running. It is very addictive.
I'll grant you all of that. There are a couple of joggers, I see every day, that fall into that category. But most are middle aged, fat, red faced, men or women, who have been advised by their doctor/mates/internet, to get some exercise, and instead of going swimming or a brisk walk decide to become 5,000 metre runners! The overweight women who could do with a sports bra (or in some cases, any bra at all), who run for 25 yards and stumble the next 100!
Mind you, the two that do look competent insist in running side by side, in the road, with their back to the traffic. Not a great issue at this time of the year, but in the winter their black track suits are not visible until they come into your dipped headlights. Not the safest form of exercise!
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: richardfrost on May 10, 2018, 04:57:35 PM
Probably best not to judge people too much Jocko. Those two women, for example, may be out for a general natter and catch up whilst enjoying some exercise.

I'm 56, overweight and often red faced when running. I wasn't advised to run by my doctor, but by my friends who have also seen the benefit. I mix it up a bit with the gym and hiking too, as too much of one sport is a risky bet, health wise, I believe.

As for running in black with your back to the traffic, that is definitely not a good idea. Even last night in bright sunshine I ran with a bright orange top with reflective strips.

Having said all of what I have said, I have never been injured so much in my life since I took up running. Pulled muscles, sprained ankle, general knackeredness, grazed knees, nettle stings, you name it.

I think that link to The Onion is about right on the whole. But do you know what? I am banking these memories of achievements, places I have been, beautiful views and soon, Half Marathons I have completed.

If you  want to sponsor me  for the Great North Run by the way, feel free. I would really appreciate it. I am running for Macmillan Cancer Support in memory of my Dad, who was taken too young by cancer at 66, having run the London Marathon during his battle.

You can text FRST57 £5 to 70070  to donate a fiver, or donate here.

https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/richardfrostgnr2018

Many thanks to those that do.

Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: Jocko on May 10, 2018, 06:00:20 PM
Probably best not to judge people too much Jocko. Those two women, for example, may be out for a general natter and catch up whilst enjoying some exercise.
The two that run together are steelie eyed harriers!
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: sparky Paul on May 10, 2018, 06:21:57 PM
Good luck with the run, very worthy cause.

So I prescribe per day:

  • One slice of carrot cake
  • One piece of pumpkin pie
  • Raspberry Trifle
  • A Strawberry Fool
  • A bag of chips

Sorry, I don't think you're allowed chips, NHS guidance specifically excludes taters from your 5 a day. Spoilsports.  >:(

Walking does it for me, particularly places motor vehicles cannot go.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: culzean on May 11, 2018, 08:06:09 AM
I saw a list a few years ago of overall fitness that various forms of exercise produced. Cyclists and runners were quite low down as they only use certain muscles, Nordic skiers came out on top because they use pretty much every muscle in their body.  I know a few ex runners with knackered joints because of high impact nature of running, personally I will stick with hill walking and my (indoors) cross trainer,  I may not get many endorphins but hopefully I won't get new knees and hips or pneumonia. either. Good luck with the GREAT North run RF.

Various studies have found that NHS guidelines of 150 mins of moderate exercise are not real good. 10 minutes every other day or even twice a week of fast exercise like x-trainer will get you much fitter.  Any exercise is good but moderate exercise will get you to a level and then no further.   NHS guidelines on low fat are also under question these days, low fat foods may causing health problems including diabetes, the human brain needs fat and cholesterol to function.  Polar explorers pretty much live on clarified butter fat for up to six months and have extremely low cholesterol levels and good balance of good and bad types.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: ColinB on May 11, 2018, 08:29:41 AM
If you  want to sponsor me  for the Great North Run by the way, feel free. I would really appreciate it. I am running for Macmillan Cancer Support in memory of my Dad, who was taken too young by cancer at 66, having run the London Marathon during his battle.

Many of us have been touched by the big C in one way or another, and the Macmillan Team do a great job. So I've just chipped in. Good luck !
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: madasafish on May 11, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
I am nearly 71. From age 17 to 21 and 31 to 65 I ran (like jogging but faster)  regularly. Not marathons but half marathons. Only gave up as my hamstrings were revolting. I now walk approx 10k paces a  day - on grass cutting days up to 23k. I also do 5 daily sessions of 15-25 minutes  and 2 sessions of 1 hour of yoga for flexibility and strength and to counter the effects of sciatica I had 4-5 years ago . (It works - I no longer suffer from it).

I know lots of fit people who continue exercising well into their 80s.. and lots who stopped in their 50s (if they even started) - the majority of the unfit ones tend to clog up doctors and NHS wards with the various ailments of old age - heart, strokes, overweight etc.  And used to know  lots of dead ones - mainly men who had heart attacks in their 50-60s..  or cancer etc.

All very well to scoff at those who exercise but the secret to muscle tone - especially heart and lungs is to exercise them to the point at which they are stretched to capacity - and then  not  to overdo it. It is no accident teh countries with no history of exercise but a tendency to abuse alcohol have the lowest life expectancy in the UK, the worst death rates from heart disease and the worst numbers of obese and medically unfit adults..and cities where in parts life expectancy is lower than Afghanistan..

Of course, I may drop dead tomorrow with a stroke - but until that happens I shall enjoy  # gardening, walking, yoga and beekeeping (the latter involves lifting and moving boxes up to 40Kg in weight and being close to nature.) Unsurprisingly elderly beekeepers tend to live long and contented lives.. (I hope :-X  )

Edit #  and do occasional car maintenance : I can still grovel under a car..


The other secret is to maintain a healthy eating style, avoid burned meat (no well done steaks)  and too much rich or fatty foods...and limit spicy foods. The prevalence of prostrate cancer seems to suggest that a rich diet tends to increase its risk.. (My BIL and brother both suffered - we tend to eat more simple food and eat a LOT of fruit and veg)
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: richardfrost on May 11, 2018, 11:07:40 AM
If you  want to sponsor me  for the Great North Run by the way, feel free. I would really appreciate it. I am running for Macmillan Cancer Support in memory of my Dad, who was taken too young by cancer at 66, having run the London Marathon during his battle.

Many of us have been touched by the big C in one way or another, and the Macmillan Team do a great job. So I've just chipped in. Good luck !

Thanks a lot ColinB. I raised over £1100 when I ran my first 10K in 2016. Hoping to get close to that with my first Half Marathon this year. Will be starting my fundraising in earnest soon.

A runner with good style will use an awful lot of muscles all across their body. The reason I said running is not good for weight loss is, for me, it makes me bloody hungry and crave the wrong kind of foods. When I was training for the 10K I was also aiming to lose weight. I lost 4 stone through a combination of sensible choices, portion size monitoring and recording what I ate. I then balanced this against exercise calorie tracking. My exercise back then was mostly walking 10,000 steps per day minimum and at least 4 one hour plus gym sessions a week involving weight training and aerobic machines, such as elliptical / cross trainer and then treadmill.

I have two fused vertebrae in my back from a parachute accident in my 20s. I suffered from a 'bad back' and nothing could cure it, until I started working out at the gym and strengthened my core - weighted sit ups and lower back extensions. I now have no back issues unless I do something stupid.

I am a firm believer now that we need to look after our own health and fitness, in whatever way suits us, and not just expect the NHS to rock up with pills and miracle cures. We all seem to have a range of doing that here and that is great. If there's one thing I hate it is a bore going on about how their particular sport or fitness regime is the best and everyone should do it. What works for me is gym, walking and running, at the moment.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: guest5079 on May 11, 2018, 11:52:15 AM
I used to insist on walking my beat. I was always in bother for doing so. Even in my days fire brigade policing was the norm. My Sub Div Commander used to go spare if I could not respond immediately, despite the fact I was a village bobby. His philosophy was immediate response. He had done most of his policing in a large town and had no concept of village policing. We were described as an unnecessary luxury. Here we are many years down the line and the public is screaming for community policing. All these specialist depts have drained the supply of  woodentops as we were described BUT whenever CID wanted information who did they ask?
HMRC had followed a male from India through South Africa only to lose him on my patch. Of course they didn't want to tell my Wife ( the unpaid assistant) anything,   telling them unless they identified themselves they would get zilch. Well, after being sensible She was able to tell HRMC exactly where their person was.
Unfortunately policing has left me with many health problems but do I keep on at my Dr?  No because I know that little can be done. It does really tick me off when I know of people who are always down the Drs because they cannot be bothered to listen. I have pressure on my Femoral nerve caused by the aperture in the spine gradually closing. Operation yes BUT how many would chance a surgeon no matter how good chiseling a piece out of their spine alongside their spinal cord. No guarantee of success but the likley hood of incontinence. The bottom of my spine is affected by arthritis and so is my left arm and side. Yes I would like to be ale to walk, swim, run and cycle BUT no chance, I just have to put up with it, not always graciously Moany old git.
Title: Re: Have you ever seen a happy jogger?
Post by: peteo48 on May 11, 2018, 04:10:10 PM

The other secret is to maintain a healthy eating style, avoid burned meat (no well done steaks)  and too much rich or fatty foods...and limit spicy foods. The prevalence of prostrate cancer seems to suggest that a rich diet tends to increase its risk.. (My BIL and brother both suffered - we tend to eat more simple food and eat a LOT of fruit and veg)

I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in December 2015. A course of radiotherapy and hormone treatment back in 2016 seems to be working thus far (got another PSA check and appointment with the oncologist next month). I did a bit of research around the subject and got a book by the acknowledged world expert in the disease Professor Patrick Walsh from Baltimore. In this book he outlines how prostate cancer is virtually unknown in China and some other far eastern countries. When people of that ethnic group move over to the west, especially the USA, the graph shoots up. A diet with minimal or no dairy seems to be significant here along with red meat etc.