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So, although I understand what the "B" setting does, I can't get my head around making it more difficult for the car to go forward, in order to charge the battery more. It seems like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul here.
However, I do wonder if anybody has done any real world testing to compare both options, to see which is more economical to use? Perhaps someone who does the same commute all the time, could do a direct comparison to see if one does have any benefit over the other?
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I can't get my head around making it more difficult for the car to go forward, in order to charge the battery more. It seems like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Nope, I don't get that comment.
As far as I'm concerned B mode has a similar effect as using the engine to assist slowing when driving a manual gearbox. B doesn't make it more difficult for the engine when your foot is on the gas pedal.
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I agree
As far as I know, using B just increases regeneration when you ease off.
I always use B
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I always use B
I use B in town and would use it all the time but I cannot use ACC in B mode
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Always B, except when I feel like using the ACC.
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No, I can't use ACC in B mode either ..... bonus :D
After early testing I use LIM instead. Suits my driving style better.
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I see. I think I must have mis-understood this then. I thought it had some sort of retardation effect all the time, even when just driving along. Oops…
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In D mode there is very little retardation. Drives just like a conventional torque converter auto.
Under B mode you do need a steady foot as the engine acceleration and braking is directly connected. B mode can almost be single pedal driving except when you need to stop.
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In D mode there is very little retardation. Drives just like a conventional torque converter auto.
Under B mode you do need a steady foot as the engine acceleration and braking is directly connected. B mode can almost be single pedal driving except when you need to stop.
In D mode regen almost 1:1 with speed - when I easy off accelerator pedal at 50km/h I get 5kw back to battery but if speed is 10km/h or less almost no regen that harvests kinetic energy, B mode adds 3kw more, but regen almost all time is not what we need unless we simple using it to stop car, because some percentage of that energy lost on conversion, coasting saves more fuel.
When not gentle on accelerator pedal and B used this will increase fuel consumption, and can cause accidents with tailgater’s, in B mode stop signals not come on when accelerator pedal released !!!
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and can cause accidents with tailgater’s, in B mode stop signals not come on when accelerator pedal released !!!
Rubbish
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... And so it shouldn't as engine braking also doesn't induce an onslaught of brake lights ;D
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In B mode the accelerator almost becomes a speed control. I use it all the time and the need to use the brake pedal is much reduced (but still needed for heavy braking and/or stopping) and there's greater regeneration as it starts earlier. One other difference between B and D is that when going down a long hill and reaching battery full, B activates engine braking but D relies on the brakes.
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and can cause accidents with tailgater’s, in B mode stop signals not come on when accelerator pedal released !!!
Rubbish
That way this working on most hybrid cars if not on all, I know only one car that lighting up stops when driver releases accelerator pedal - Kia Soul EV.
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In B mode the accelerator almost becomes a speed control. I use it all the time and the need to use the brake pedal is much reduced (but still needed for heavy braking and/or stopping) and there's greater regeneration as it starts earlier. One other difference between B and D is that when going down a long hill and reaching battery full, B activates engine braking but D relies on the brakes.
Nope
Also in D mode engine braking used when battery reaches “100%” but less aggressive then in B mode.
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So you use your brakes all the time to slow down :D :D ;D
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So you use your brakes all the time to slow down :D :D ;D
When driver gently used braking pedal only to complete stop the car brakes almost not used.
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So you are :D using engine braking to slow down without brake lights. No difference to driving in B mode. :D :D :D
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So you are :D using engine braking to slow down without brake lights. No difference to driving in B mode. :D :D :D
When i say gently use brakes to stop car completely i mean coast to almost full stop then press gently the brake pedal.
Not always possible (traffic, tailgater`s and so on) when car coasts the speed of car changes gradualy.
I now use B mode only when i have downhill on my way that allows me to recharge battery and will be needed strong engine braking.
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Coasting to a stop applying brakes for full stop is the same as B mode. No brake lights while coasting or B mode.
B mode is definitely not aggressive
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and can cause accidents with tailgater’s, in B mode stop signals not come on when accelerator pedal released !!!
Rubbish
That way this working on most hybrid cars if not on all, I know only one car that lighting up stops when driver releases accelerator pedal - Kia Soul EV.
We have a Seat Mii Electric and that has four levels of regen, the brake lights can come on if using levels 3 or 4. The Jazz 'B' mode is quite a light retardation and probably equivalent to level 2 on the Seat. The level 4 slows the Seat down quite rapidly and I hardly ever use the brakes at that level.
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So you are :D using engine braking to slow down without brake lights. No difference to driving in B mode. :D :D :D
When i say gently use brakes to stop car completely i mean coast to almost full stop then press gently the brake pedal.
Not always possible (traffic, tailgater`s and so on) when car coasts the speed of car changes gradualy.
I now use B mode only when i have downhill on my way that allows me to recharge battery and will be needed strong engine braking.
Me too. i only use B mode when I know a downhill stretch may fully charge the battery by the bottom , when D might not .That saves fuel. Once the HV battery is full I go back into D mode because B mode will not add any more. Why bother? In D mode the car might continue downhill with no need for throttle. B mode might need some throttle to overcome its extra 'engine braking'. - which is counter productive.
There are very few hills,or mountain passes even, where D mode does not provide enough 'engine braking' that you need to use brakes to the extent they are at risk of overheating .. (if you take things steady from the top . Its just like walking downhill. Children soon learn if you start to run downhill you may not be able to stop yourself until you fall over. Some drivers never learn this )
Also in town. If you start to slow a bit earlier D mode still provides at least some regenerative braking and recharges the battery.And you may not need to brake much. B mode may give more braking effect, so you tend to start slowing just a little bit later. More battery charging, but for a shorter time. If you drive gently anyway I think both modes will give very similar mpg. You may use brakes a bit more in D mode, but this helps clear rusting. :-*
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B all the time, especially when going extra urban as higher speed affects retardation less and gives a lot more regen.
All Honda e:HRVs brake pads should last forever. I rarely brake when turning into a side road, or coming up to a stop line or red traffic lights. I just let B slow me down. Followers must think my brake lights have failed!
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I'd not be happy changing from B to D on the move in case I pushed it too far into N, or is that not possible.
I just leave it in B, job done.
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When I'm changing from B to D or vice versa I never managed to end up in N.
I'm a bit ashamed to admit I've never even tried... ;D
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I'd not be happy changing from B to D on the move in case I pushed it too far into N, or is that not possible.
I just leave it in B, job done.
I do need to change it on the move to suit my current driving style. I've had no problems so far.
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All Honda e:HRVs brake pads should last forever. I rarely brake when turning into a side road, or coming up to a stop line or red traffic lights. I just let B slow me down. Followers must think my brake lights have failed!
Ditto.
I've been driving like that for years in manual gearbox cars. Followers can think what they like.
Late braking wastes energy and hence fuel.
Anticipation saves fuel, accidents, passenger discomfort, stress and brake pads. Plus, giving some love to other drivers and pedestrians gives you good Karma.
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I'd not be happy changing from B to D on the move in case I pushed it too far into N, or is that not possible.
I just leave it in B, job done.
Yes - I am afraid I might break something. If I'm going to use D (a rare event) I'll select that from the outset.
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I've remembered why I started driving the way I do: 30 years ago, my son would get car sick unless I reduced the G-force in bends and reduced speed gently.
Anticipation is the only way to achieve that style.
I was just waiting at a traffic light and watched a young woman in the lane beside me come to an abrupt stop. I was glad that I wasn't her passenger!
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I'm the same. I slowly come to a stop, unlike the ones who have the front end recoil and passengers nodding.
For me the IAM tutoring and test (1983) taught me a lot. Anticipate, look far ahead, drop back behind large vehicles to get a better view ahead etc. Know what's happening 360 degrees.
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... Always B until D! ;D (until AAC is required)
You shouldn't have a problem moving between them, I've never gone into N by accident.
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From the MPG topic.
"I have arrived at speed, drive settings and adapted to give what I feel is the optimum driving method to suit me.
General driving locally is up to 53mpg when conditions allow in B mode and ecco, climate control always auto varying temp, and use of any fitted auxiliary like heated seats as required.
When motorway use for distance driving, same auxiliary use but D mode ACC and ecco speed set to 70mph on dual carriageway sections where permitted.
Attached graph shows mpg after each fill and the Accumulative mpg since new.
The dips in fill mpg in all cases attributed to after motorway or distance runs when max speed used where permitted.
I report on here my accumulative mpg in site settings since that is the real indicator over all conditions, and since settling on settings it and fill mpg naturally increasing towards a settled figure at some point.
Stopped thinking of the multiple variations that may occur as generally I cannot influence ambient conditions, but do monitor tyre pressure."
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I guess perhaps 90% of my driving is in 'B' mode, unless I need ACC, where of course I have to use 'D' mode.
Air con is always On, set to Auto 19/20c.
I have to admit that not much of my general motoring is on motorways, most roads are restricted to 40/50mph.
My style of motoring is to use 'B' mode to slow down, only using the brakes for the final stop.
Battery levels can vary between 2 bars, up to 10 bars, depending on terrain, hills etc.
The attached photo show the figures over the last 3 refuels, which I think are pretty consistent.
I'm not bothered about any difference between the recorded figures and the real world, as its only around 1 or 2 mpg and with these results, who cares!
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Just out of interest, can you change from B to D while moving...?
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Yes. And also from D to B... ;D
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Just out of interest, can you change from B to D while moving...?
I do, often.
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Just out of interest, can you change from B to D while moving...?
Yes. And also from D to B... ;D
Drivers of HEV vehicles just need to remember that, with the exception of the 'P' position, moving the gearstick does not change 'Gear' in the accepted sense. You are simply switching electronic control circuits, which control Forward/Reverse and degree of Regeneration braking.
Quite obviously you should NEVER engage 'P' whilst moving.
When I reverse off my drive, I guess there is still some reverse movement, when I change to forward, probably less than walking pace.
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...I'd be slightly apprehensive of changing into Reverse nonetheless!
Maybe trying in someone else's car first would alleviate my fear :o ;D
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Just don't press the 'clutch' pedal when changing gear( b to d)..
I am doubtful that B saves any fuel c/w D. Has anyone done 1 fill with one, switch, switch back?
Or seen any tests on Toyota , Hyundai hybrids.?
When I use B, I get a mild pulsing effect, that the slowing is not constant. Whilst using X and footbreak is more smooth. Am I alone.?
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What clutch pedal :D :D :D :D :D
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What clutch pedal :D :D :D :D :D
I think, tounge in cheek, he means the brake
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When I use B, I get a mild pulsing effect, that the slowing is not constant. Whilst using X and footbreak is more smooth. Am I alone.?
YES, 'B' mode Regeneration, provides very smooth braking from any speed, down to walking speed and then requires the footbrake to bring the car to a dead stop, very much like being in a lower gear on a manual gearbox. I would suggest any 'mild pulsing effect' needs to be investigated.
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When I use B, I get a mild pulsing effect, that the slowing is not constant. Whilst using X and footbreak is more smooth. Am I alone.?
YES, 'B' mode Regeneration, provides very smooth braking from any speed, down to walking speed and then requires the footbrake to bring the car to a dead stop, very much like being in a lower gear on a manual gearbox. I would suggest any 'mild pulsing effect' needs to be investigated.
No pulsing in mine.
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Never used B
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:o
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Never used B
Do you have any particular reason for not using "B"?
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I'm hooked on B as well, love it.
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Never used B
So, your not interested in saving energy by regeneration, which of course means ultimately saving petrol?
And also saving wear, on brake pads and discs.
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Never used B
So, your not interested in saving energy by regeneration, which of course means ultimately saving petrol?
And also saving wear, on brake pads and discs.
I occasionally use B, but selectively when I think it would be beneficial,such as a medium length down hill stretch ,steep enough to keep the car moving despite the extra regenerative braking effect of B mode. I find the extra regenerative effect in B sometimes slows the car more than I want so I have to use throttle more often just to keep the car moving.Which seems counter productive. .
I'm not convinced the energy savings is significant in normal traffic, if the driver anticipates the need to stop sooner ,and comes off the throttle sooner,with gentle braking when necessary . I am very happy with my fuel consumption in D even compared to others who might be using B.
I also think Driving in D mode is more like 'normal ' cars. When I now drive a manual car , I occasionally forget to change down when slowing until the car shows its displeasure. I'd hate to think I might also expect the car to slow itself down more and forget to brake ! ;D
(I wouldnt of course , I am experienced enough to have it all under control :-[ but the less difference between cars the better. )
Its a matter of taste I suppose and some like the 'one pedal' driving experience .But its not really one pedal, you may still need to remember to use the brakes. ;).
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Never used B
So, your not interested in saving energy by regeneration, which of course means ultimately saving petrol?
And also saving wear, on brake pads and discs.
I saving energy by not using regenerative braking if i can coast instead, on long descend roads or when i need soon stop car on red traffic light i keeping accelerator slightly depressed (balancing accelerator in place where power flow lines changes from green to blue and back to green) i can keep car mooving without using battery energy at all.
Regenerative braking never will be efficient 100% so maybe 30% of kinetic energy we losing on heat in motor, inverter and battery.
Saving on brake pads and disk can actualy end up in they replacement too soon.
We need to use them from time to time just to keep them in good condition.
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I saving energy by not using regenerative braking if i can coast instead, on long descend roads or when i need soon stop car on red traffic light i keeping accelerator slightly depressed (balancing accelerator in place where power flow lines changes from green to blue and back to green) i can keep car mooving without using battery energy at all.
Have you actually tried using the technique as described, but in ‘B’ mode, it’s what I do all the time.
Have just come home from my daughters home, roughly a 10 mile journey and my consumption for the trip worked out at 88.8 mpg, I am convinced that I could not have reached that sort of figure in ‘D’ mode.
I accept that this figure includes a number of downhill stretches, but as posted elsewhere my average over 11,000 miles is in the high 60s, virtually all of it in ‘B’ mode.
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D or B. Lift off early, loose speed gradually with mild regeneration over a greater distance or lift off late with more aggressive retardation and increased regeneration over a shorter distance. It all amounts to pretty much the same level of energy captured.
It's one of the things where there is no right or wrong, it all boils down to your preferred driving style.
Happy motoring everybody.
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D or B. Lift off early, loose speed gradually with mild regeneration over a greater distance
This is simply not an option in busy urban traffic if you don't want to annoy your fellow road users.
In a city like ours (not even that big) you could try it between 3AM and 5AM. :D
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D or B. Lift off early, loose speed gradually with mild regeneration over a greater distance
This is simply not an option in busy urban traffic if you don't want to annoy your fellow road users.
You'd love following me :D
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I saving energy by not using regenerative braking if i can coast instead[/quote]
How do you coast in an automatic? Coasting implies holding the clutch in or being in neutral.
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D or B. Lift off early, loose speed gradually with mild regeneration over a greater distance
This is simply not an option in busy urban traffic if you don't want to annoy your fellow road users.
You'd love following me :D
I think I'm lucky that I live roughly 1500 km (1000 mi) east of you... :D
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The simple thing to remember is, ANY use of the brakes is wasted energy/petrol and I would suggest that you would, without question use the brakes more in ‘D’ mode, than ‘B’ mode.
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I saving energy by not using regenerative braking if i can coast instead
How do you coast in an automatic? Coasting implies holding the clutch in or being in neutral.
[/quote]
keeping accelerator slightly depressed (balancing accelerator in place where power flow lines on instrument cluster changes from green to blue and back to green)
The moment when blue lines changes to green when you releasing carefully accelerator pedal is moment when there is no cosumption at all or consumption is wery small maybe 0.5kw regeneration - in this moment you coasting, after you learning how to do this you can do that without thinking abou it too much.
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How do you coast in an automatic? Coasting implies holding the clutch in or being in neutral.
keeping accelerator slightly depressed (balancing accelerator in place where power flow lines on instrument cluster changes from green to blue and back to green)
The moment when blue lines changes to green when you releasing carefully accelerator pedal is moment when there is no cosumption at all or consumption is very small maybe 0.5kw regeneration - in this moment you coasting, after you learning how to do this you can do that without thinking abou it too much.
[/quote]
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I thought B was only for travelling down steep hills. Don’t know any. My mileage less than 2,400 coming up for first year at end of month.
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My Jazz is the first car for many years that doesn't have a manual gearbox. Using B is pretty much like using over-run on a manual gearbox. Take your foot off the gas and the car looses speed more rapidly than when using D. It feels more natural to me.
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Some really good points and economy doesn't appear to be affected for some people whether in B or D.
From my experience of living in a flat area I notice the battery charge increases quickly when on the hills, so I wonder if economy is better if a person has a longish hill (s) in their normal routine
I drive in D most of the time.
I Use B if necessary to slow down on hills, and when I can see I will need to stop eg slow traffic, roundabouts etc to increase regeneration and save on brake pads.
I find I notice immediately when I have not switched back to D on lifting my foot off the accelerator.
The manual tells us not to change the gear selector when accelerating - not clear as to what that actually means so I don't do it.
It also allows some changes without pressing the selector button eg D to B and B to D
I also use ECCO mode all the time as of yet.
On my two refills 946 miles and 68 litres over a period of twelve weeks. Mainly urban flat. Motorway a couple of journeys about thirty miles.
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Some really good points and economy doesn't appear to be affected for some people whether in B or D.
From my experience of living in a flat area I notice the battery charge increases quickly when on the hills, so I wonder if economy is better if a person has a longish hill (s) in their normal routine
I drive in D most of the time.
I Use B if necessary to slow down on hills, and when I can see I will need to stop eg slow traffic, roundabouts etc to increase regeneration and save on brake pads.
I find I notice immediately when I have not switched back to D on lifting my foot off the accelerator.
The manual tells us not to change the gear selector when accelerating - not clear as to what that actually means so I don't do it.
It also allows some changes without pressing the selector button eg D to B and B to D
I also use ECCO mode all the time as of yet.
On my two refills 946 miles and 68 litres over a period of twelve weeks. Mainly urban flat. Motorway a couple of journeys about thirty miles.
Just love the car..EX model.
Have had it for 11 weeks, covered 1950 miles, and it’s showing 75.6 MPG., and increasing.
Just my pennyworth..... Run it in economy for 97% of the time. Occasionally, with the throttle quarter open, and holding it there, I switch off the economy button, to experience the increased acceleration. Very impressed! I suppose I use the B mode 90% of the time, but have been known to knock it into neutral, on the occasional steep hill, as the retardation was too strong, and D, has too little. I return to B at the bottom of the hill, for the 90% bend. Having read the manual, I did not spot the section where it states that you should not change the gear selector, whilst accelerating. The page number would be good. Thanks.
Anyone think that neutral is a problem? It’s hardly going to wreck the non existent gearbox!
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Having read the manual, I did not spot the section where it states that you should not change the gear selector, whilst accelerating. The page number would be good. Thanks.
It's on page 400. It's puzzling - it's an incidental sidenote. Almost a throw-away comment. I suspect they mean not to accelerate hard whilst moving the shifter. Because, I cannot think of any reason what damage could possibly be done by moving the shifter whilst moving (forward!).
The text is:
Do not operate the shift lever while pressing the accelerator pedal. You could damage the transmission.
Could anyone suggest please how damage could occur?
Anyone think that neutral is a problem? It’s hardly going to wreck the non existent gearbox!
I too have wondered about this. Again, what on earth problem could be caused by shifting to N??
Years ago we were taught not to drive in neutral in case of brake failure, or inadequate brake force. But that's not an issue here - that's not the reason. Perhaps some people are anxious at shifting to N because of this warning from their driving instructor years/decades ago?
And here's a third puzzle - on page 27 we are shown that we can move the shifter from B to D to N without pressing the release button, yet to shift from D to B we do have to press the button. Why on earth?
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Anyone think that neutral is a problem? It’s hardly going to wreck the non existent gearbox!
I too have wondered about this. Again, what on earth problem could be caused by shifting to N??
Years ago we were taught not to drive in neutral in case of brake failure, or inadequate brake force. But that's not an issue here - that's not the reason. Perhaps some people are anxious at shifting to N because of this warning from their driving instructor years/decades ago?
I’ll have a go at that (doubtless other viewpoints are available). There’s lots of opinions about this on the interweb, but this seems like a good summary:
https://www.mercedes-benzsouthwest.co.uk/blog/are-you-coasting-towards-more-repairs
Some of those points only apply to manual cars, but for me the issue is in the final section “Is it dangerous?” which is just as applicable to autos and hybrids as manuals. If, whilst driving, I come across a situation that requires fast reactions, I don’t want to be faffing around with the gear shift or dealing with the absence of retardation from the engine/motor. If the Highway Code says “Don’t do it” that’s good enough for me.
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I've always understood it to be illegal in Britain to be in neutral while driving.
On a manual car, you are likely to loose grip on the road if braking hard with the clutch down. Same would apply to an automatic in neutral.
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I've always understood it to be illegal in Britain to be in neutral while driving.
Thanks Neil. I'd be fascinated if someone knows enough about the Jazz's box of gears* to explain technically why N might be a problem. And technically, why Honda advise against accelerating whilst shifting.
*We know the Jazz doesn't have a gearbox, but it does have a box of gears.
Perhaps something in there, perhaps on the clutch, doesn't like N for too long?
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When you select N during acceleration you will disconnect power from electric engine, you can push to the metal nothing will happen car will not accelerate but thins our electrical motor have permanent magnets on rotor and still connected to reduction gearbox and wheels it will still generate plenty of electricity when car mooving without any load and that mean voltage may be too high for isolation in motor and inverter and can lead to electric isolation break in motor stator at least, but when car standstill our i-mmd will still provide charge to HV battery, so for standstill P or N no matter but when car moving forward only D or B.
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B with limiter around town. (But never the sign recognition limiter: too many false alarms from side roads.)
D on highways and motorways, with ACC and LKAS as needed.
In both modes, light pressure on the brake pedal uses regeneration first, but heavier pressure also uses the brake pads. They're also used when you're slowing the last couple of mph to a complete stop. Now the car is a little older I can hear the slight grinding sound as the brakes engage.
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I've now got over 12k miles on the clock and it's showing 68.1 mpg over that total mileage ('B' trip has never been reset since the car was new)
All of those miles have been in 'B' mode except where ACC was required (not very often)
Yes. I can get into the 80s of even 90s on the odd trip, but in my opinion what matters is the overall total average.
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Needs dusting :D
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All of those miles have been in 'B' mode except where ACC was required (not very often)
Can anyone think of the reason why Honda don't allow cruise control in B mode??
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B with limiter around town. (But never the sign recognition limiter: too many false alarms from side roads.)
I agreed totally, he intelligent speed limiter does pick up speed signs and I found it almost deadly when it detected a 30mph on the adjacent slip off road on the A55 at Colwyn Bay which is a 50mph dual carriageway, I had sudden braking from 50mph with the system trying to drop to 30mph and nearly got smashed into from behind. Dam DANGEROUS!
Always just use the cruise control now…….guys, you have been warned!
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I had sudden braking from 50mph with the system trying to drop to 30mph ...
Can you confirm that the system actually applies the brakes. If so it is downright dangerous. On the MKIII it just removes the power, so the car would gradually reduce in speed.
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I had sudden braking from 50mph with the system trying to drop to 30mph ...
Can you confirm that the system actually applies the brakes. If so it is downright dangerous. On the MKIII it just removes the power, so the car would gradually reduce in speed.
I've experienced this in my Mk3, and won't use the system again. Even though it doesn't apply the brakes, if you're travelling at 50mph or above and the car decides to cut the gas instantly, believe me the deceleration is not gradual and moreover doesn't give the following car the cue of your brake lights. If the Mk4 actually applies the brakes and causes the brake lights to activate, that's an improvement.
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All of those miles have been in 'B' mode except where ACC was required (not very often)
Can anyone think of the reason why Honda don't allow cruise control in B mode??
Probably because the high level of retardation in 'B' mode would conflict with the ACC?
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I do not go along with the idea that slowing down without braking is dangerous. No one worries about taking their foot off the gas in a manual gearbox car.
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I do not go along with the idea that slowing down without braking is dangerous. No one worries about taking their foot off the gas in a manual gearbox car.
Slowing down without braking is a perfectly normal driving technique. But I suggest that most people would ease the pedal pressure so the car does slow gradually. Try driving at 70 and then take your foot completely off the pedal, because that's what the "intelligent" speed limiter does when it detects the wrong sign. It's dangerous because the car behind doesn't see any brake lights, so the driver doesn't get any prompt that you're suddenly slowing.
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I do not go along with the idea that slowing down without braking is dangerous. No one worries about taking their foot off the gas in a manual gearbox car.
Try driving at 70 and then take your foot completely off the pedal, because that's what the "intelligent" speed limiter does when it detects the wrong sign.
Yes, I can see the problem there. I have given up using that system as it's too flaky with the UK mixture of speed indication signs. I would not be surprised if Japanese speed signage is absolutely regular and so the Honda system can be relied upon.
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Use B for trimming a bit of speed off at times (if no one close behind) or for a downhill to remain speed neutral. Interested to read that very light brake use initially activates regeneration, but that involves having to lift your foot from accelerator to brake pedal and who can be bothered with that 🙂.
Personally I find B too intrusive and lurchy. Prefer a smoother drive 👍. And also agree with others on here that a car slowing down quicker than you'd expect without brake lights coming on is a slight anomaly.
Always try to distance etc on motorways etc without having to activate brake lights by the way 🙂
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I do not get the worry about slowing down without using the brakes. Manual gearbox cars do the same thing all the time.
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Famous quote on braking on motorways...
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D or B. Lift off early, loose speed gradually with mild regeneration over a greater distance
This is simply not an option in busy urban traffic if you don't want to annoy your fellow road users.
In a city like ours (not even that big) you could try it between 3AM and 5AM. :D
You mean the same drivers who dont like you driving at the speed limit, or you stopping for a red traffic light they had hoped to 'jump' after you did. ? I dont like trusting such drivers to notice you are stopping ,however gradually, in B mode .At least D mode gives them some warning with some brake lights.
! think aggressive city drivers are more annoyed at drivers who fail to keep up with normal traffic flow .Actually the Mk 4 can do very well here, due to its massive torque from rest. Maybe not all Jazz drivers though. :-[ At least hesitant drivers give impatient drivers more opportunity to constantly change lanes to try and gain a cars length. :P
I taught my daughter to drive 'confidently' (aka assertive or aggressively :-[) in big city traffic and was always telling her to "get your snout at the trough" Oh dear I raised a monster. She went on to buy an Audi. ;D
I think rolling downhill in neutral is illegal under a catchall law of not being in proper control of the vehicle.(as can driving in totally unsuitable footwear ) A car is much more stable in its handling under drive/in gear , and sometimes safety requires you to accelerate out of danger. Suddenly changing from freewheeling to drive can introduce excessive torque (twisting) to components such as gearbox,automatic gearbox , engine, clutch, drive shafts, electric traction motors etc.
Last week I drove the Jazz over the Transfagarasan Highway (or as I call it the transkardashian highway) ,a 2000 metre pass over the Carpathian Mountains in Romania. Described by 'Top gear' as "The best road in the world"
The Jazz climbed it easy as Winkey. And I came down the pass in D mode with no problem at all. In fact for much of the time I followed a Volvo 4x4 down and that had to brake at least twice as often as I did. - I dont know if it was an automatic or manual, but either way it put twice as much strain on its brakes as the Jazz . Naturally even in D mode the battery was almost immediately fully charged. I tried B mode for a short time as an experiment but it was totally unnecessary.
Here is a photo near the top. The pilons are for a cable car!
The main hazard was Bears. ;D The Sat Nav didnt at any point say " Bear Right Ahead " ;D
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... I've never found it 'jerky' or 'intrusive'. Engine braking in a manual can be way more aggressive.
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Since reading this topic I’ve made all my work journeys in B. 25 miles a day, some dual carriageways, 30-50mph. I have noticed increased battery charge and more EV driving. Also it’s nice barely touching the brake and the journeys seem smoother. I wonder though if using this mode too much must wear out some component?
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So when you lightly touch the brake pedal in either B or D, does it use regen braking or always the mechanical brakes?
Thanks.
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So when you lightly touch the brake pedal in either B or D, does it use regen braking or always the mechanical brakes?
Thanks.
From what I've read here regen happens in D but more so with B.
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So when you lightly touch the brake pedal in either B or D, does it use regen braking or always the mechanical brakes?
Thanks.
If you touch the brakes it uses mechanical brakes. But just like when you take your foot off the throttle on a conventional manual car there is some 'engine braking' without using the brakes. On a normal car its due to engine compression , on a hybrid and EV its due to regenerative braking . The momentum of the car is used to turn the charging generator ,not the engine .A generator is reluctant to turn due to its powerful magnets. Its the power needed to overcome the drag of the magnets that effectively slows the car. ;D Free power . Coming down a long enough descent you can fully recharge the EV battery by regenerative braking alone ,so will effectively roll down the length of the hill (but under control) then travel the range of the EV battery without the engine . You get more regenerative braking with B mode than D (the magnets are made more powerful) , but B mode might slow the car down more than you want so you may need to use some battery power just to keep the car moving. Swings and roundabouts. Sounds complicated but the car does all the clever stuff and you soon get used to it. Then you can decide whether you prefer the feel of the car in B mode or D mode.
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I asked this question when I joined this forum, just before taking delivery of my Jazz and the first automatic I have ever owned. Now, after 3000 miles in 3 months I find that I use D mode predominantly. I sometimes go into B mode when descending hills, which I do often when visiting the Dales. I can honestly say I have never noticed any difference between charging rates between B or D. I regularly reach 10, in either mode. It does advise in the Honda manual that D mode should be used the majority of the time, and B for hill descents only.
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It does advise in the Honda manual that D mode should be used the majority of the time, and B for hill descents only.
No... it does NOT advise that D mode should be used the majority of the time. I read on page 403 https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
this:
Drive
Used:
For normal driving.
Drive (B)
Used when driving down a long hill
and to increase regenerative braking.
(https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/thumbs/120/sony/336/battery_1f50b.png)
So... B can be used when descending a long hill BUT ALSO (and...) for regenerating more braking energy. Even on flat roads.
Try the B mode in busy city traffic and discover that, by accelerating and braking a lot (using the brake pedal very limited), the HV battery charges faster.
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In the first few weeks of ownership I tried both and I prefer B mode. Can't remember the last time I used D
Just had to get used to pushing the lever forward 3 clicks instead of 2 from drive to reverse.
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Yes, like Kremmen I rarely use "D" but, then again, most of my driving is in an urban setting and "B" mode excels in this environment. There's almost an element of one pedal driving.
Longer journeys on the motorway I tend to use "D" as I occasionally use ACC.
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... Yeah Honda say use what you like when you like ;D
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Have been wandering about how using either 'D' or 'B' may affect battery life. I would seem to me that when using 'B' mode the amount of energy going into and out of the battery would be increased over the 'D' mode, resulting in the battery system being worked more ...... any thoughts?
Personally, I have so far generally used 'D' but changed to 'B' mode when doing longer descents or when driving in hilly areas.
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And i'm with Nicksey and Lord Voltermore, in that I use D most of the time, but B going down steeper hills. It's how I used to drive Toyota hybrids also. Not saying there is anything wrong with using B more if you prefer that way. Why do you suppose that Honda disable ACC in B mode?
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I don't think that battery degradation would be an issue. Ev batteries have come a long way. The regen is far less severe than charging an EV battery from the mains and even once it does start to deteriorate it is unlikely to even be noticed as the ICE would just come in a little earlier. Perhaps if you were accurately monitoring and recording fuel consumption you would notice a gradual drop off as the car aged. It would not be something I would worry about.
ACC and B may be down to the thinking that if you want to recover a lot of energy (the purpose of B) there is not much point in wasting it running Climate Control.
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B for me all the time, time it right and you hardly ever need to brake... :)
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ACC and B may be down to the thinking that if you want to recover a lot of energy (the purpose of B) there is not much point in wasting it running Climate Control.
Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMKtgu3vKyGzvG8w5UHCJ8D9TI2F3wLOAEkA&usqp=CAU)
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As Jazzik points out, by adding the word "and" Honda effectively say ' use B if you want to.'
But i ask myself "why wouldnt you want an increase in regenerative braking ? ' If its beneficial most of the time why not make B the 'normal' and D an option only used if you want ACC. It could even be automatically switched to D mode operation when you select ACC.
And why does it need D option at all? My guess is that the ACC would struggles to maintain and reduce speeds using regenerative braking, and a constant shift between higher than normal regenerative braking, and the occasional need to apply mechanical brakes would confuse the system and the driver. And could well have an adverse affect on fuel consumption.
ACC generally uses less fuel because you are maintaining a steady speed, but when it needs to reduce speed then increase it again it may do so quite aggressively which uses more fuel . B mode level of retardation may make this worse. And may do so under similar road conditions (main road as well as motorway,) even when controlling your speed manually without using ACC.
At the risk of repeating myself, my attitude to manual brakes is 'use them or lose them. ' I have twice needed to replace rusty disc rotors,and often needed to overhaul gummed up moving parts on cars that only got occasional use. Its a long time since I ever needed just to replace worn disc pads . If you primarily use regenerative braking in B mode, your brakes effectively get little use, even if you use the car regularly.
Coming down a longish hill in B mode the HV battery may be full long before you reach the bottom. You cannot add more charge to the battery so there is no longer any free energy and the car needs to find other way of dumping the excess energy and retarding the car as best it can. I believe it sometimes utilises genuine engine braking using compression of the ICE engine , but this can be quite noisy. I dont suppose this ,or putting more power into the electromagnets when in B mode , adds any significant strain on the drive chain , and it happens to some extent even in D mode , but I'd rather just use brakes more. Replacing brake pads if necessary is no big deal expense wise. .
But ultimately its whatever works best for you, and may depend on where you habitually drive, particularly in town.
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Near me is a fairly steep hill that is descended on most journeys. Unscientific tests have given me the impression that descending in B mode produces less charge than in D with braking.
I have always been under the impression that light braking does not involve the mechanical brakes.
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Near me is a fairly steep hill that is descended on most journeys. Unscientific tests have given me the impression that descending in B mode produces less charge than in D with braking.
I have always been under the impression that light braking does not involve the mechanical brakes.
Yeah I think if your demand on the footbrake is light enough it may only use regenerative braking, and gain some free charging, rather than waste energy heating up discs and pads.
I have come down several long mountain passes, in D mode , and a combination of 'engine braking' and occasional light application of the brakes has been more than enough. (with the battery long since fully charged. ) I have even compared how often I needed to use the brake pedal compared to the brake lights of 'conventional' cars in front of me, descending at the same pace. Their brake lights sometimes came on twice as often as mine would have done. I tried B mode as an experiment a couple of times but there was no noticeable advantage that cant be matched by simply descending at a sensible speed. Any exceptionally steep stretch rarely lasts for long enough to overheat modern brakes , unless you are racing down like an idiot.
Sorry .I know I bleat on about this. :-[ I Drive a lot in mountains much bigger than anything in the UK . Maybe if I primarily drove in town I'd think differently ,but so far D suits me fine there too.
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At the risk of repeating myself, my attitude to manual brakes is 'use them or lose them. ' I have twice needed to replace rusty disc rotors,and often needed to overhaul gummed up moving parts on cars that only got occasional use.
I very seldom use my brakes, I pride myself in being able to anticipate road and traffic conditions so as not to need them. I have done 60,000 miles, over six years, in my 16 year-old-car and have never needed anything done to any part of the braking system, other than a brake pipe replaced.
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Same here, look ahead, anticipate.
I always used to change my cars at about 33k miles, 3 years when I was commuting and I can't remember the last time I needed new tyres or brakes.
The last service on each always reported well over half of disc pad and tyre tread left.
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I also try and avoid heavy braking but no matter how good you are at anticipation there will often be times when an urgent stop is required, especially now when so many drivers do not indicate their intention. I don't worry about my brake discs rusting.
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I also try and avoid heavy braking but no matter how good you are at anticipation there will often be times when an urgent stop is required, especially now when so many drivers do not indicate their intention. I don't worry about my brake discs rusting.
Austin 7 training. Herbert Austin once said in answer to criticism that good drivers dont need good brakes. Partly true. But it nice to have the option .
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I also try and avoid heavy braking but no matter how good you are at anticipation there will often be times when an urgent stop is required, especially now when so many drivers do not indicate their intention. I don't worry about my brake discs rusting.
Austin 7 training. Herbert Austin once said in answer to criticism that good drivers dont need good brakes. Partly true. But it nice to have the option .
:D
He may also have said, 'Good brakes encourage furious driving'. He was right!
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Yeah I think if your demand on the footbrake is light enough it may only use regenerative braking, and gain some free charging, rather than waste energy heating up discs and pads.
Thanks exactly how e:HEV braking system works, your foot on the brake pedal is not directly connected to the brake pads, the system uses the brake pedal simulator pressure to determine the amount of retardation needed and balances that with available regeneration and then apply any pressure to the brake pads to match. On a steady slow down the brake pads are actually only used toward the end of the braking cycle.
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Stopping by magnets. I wanna sticker ! ;D
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I agree with Nicksey and Voltermore: I generally drive in D which caters for a more smooth control. When I first had the Jazz I tended to use B when I wanted to brake, but now I just gently press the braking pedal. That allows for more smoothness and you don't scare people behind you (brake lights are coming on). I only like B in hilly parts (not available in NL) and in heavy stop and go traffic.
I would have liked having a meter that shows how much you regenerate (as on the new H-RV and Civic).
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I'm still getting used to my Jazz (2 months) but find the car feels heavier in B mode, so am tending to only use it on hills/approaching junctions, and D the rest of the time. I am quite light footed I think on the pedals.
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We use B because we can't pull the drive selector lever any further. Lazy drivers!
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I estimate I use D and B equally. I like to use Cruise Control and that requires D mode. When I'm not 'cruising' I use B as that's simulates engine braking. I've mostly owned manual gearbox cars; engine braking feels right to me.
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...find the car feels heavier in B mode
(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a018.gif)
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Coming down a longish hill in B mode the HV battery may be full long before you reach the bottom. You cannot add more charge to the battery so there is no longer any free energy and the car needs to find other way of dumping the excess energy and retarding the car as best it can. I believe it sometimes utilises genuine engine braking using compression of the ICE engine , but this can be quite noisy.
In my experience the car is more likely to use engine braking when in B mode and the battery is full. When that happens on a long moderate hill I temporarily shift to D so the discs can be cleaned and the engine goes quiet. Otherwise I use B all the time.
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In my experience the car is more likely to use engine braking when in B mode and the battery is full. When that happens on a long moderate hill I temporarily shift to D so the discs can be cleaned and the engine goes quiet. Otherwise I use B all the time.
I don’t believe there is any connection between the brake pedal and the regeneration system.
In fact using the brake pedal can only reduce the total regeneration available, because energy is then being used by the the brake discs/pads, leaving less for regeneration.
So, like John I use ‘B’ mode most of the time, except when I need ACC.
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Have attached an excerpt from the Honda City e:HEV that has just been released. It seems to use the same system as the Jazz but suggests that pressing the brake pedal does generate more regenerative energy in the early phase, also look at City video online.
''Honda City E:HEV Hybrid Regen Mode Explained
There is one more mode in the City e:HEV which is deceleration and during this phase, the batteries are recharged. This takes place by one of two ways. You can use the brakes to recharge the batteries, converting kinetic energy into electric energy during braking. Or you can use the selective recuperation mode using the paddle shifts with three levels of energy recuperation. The left paddle increases the level of regeneration, while the right pedal reduces it.''
It kind of works like a traditional gear selector, except it does not change the ratios. When engaged, to activate recuperation, all you have to do is release the accelerator pedal and cruise, this creates a kind of dynamo effect that recharges the battery. The braking feel generated during regeneration isn't too aggressive in either of the modes and if timed right it can almost provide you with one-pedal drivability though, unlike in an EV, the City e:HEV does not entirely come to a stop unless you use the brakes.[/i]
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B all the time except when using ACC.
D regen is weedy in comparison.
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I'd prefer to be an Alpha male, but that's not an option. ;D
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Never used B mode as it’s flat.
What is the B gear in Honda Jazz hybrid?
Put simply, the 'D' mode is for normal driving, and 'B' mode should be used when you are going downhill.
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I would say B mode produces more regenerative power from deceleration.
I always use B as it's mostly one pedal driving if you look far enough ahead.
It seems we all have our favourite due to 'reasons' so it's a personal decision.
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Put simply, the 'D' mode is for normal driving, and 'B' mode should be used when you are going downhill.
Put simply, the 'D' mode is for normal driving, and 'B' mode is for normal driving with more regenerative power from deceleration.
An additional B mode helps with braking. Although it would be more accurate to say “with slowing down”: after all, these settings are aimed at increasing the intensity of recuperation and energy accumulation. The B mode shows itself best during the process of resetting the speed while driving – a smooth deceleration as if you switched to a lower gear and braked the engine on a regular car. It is worth noting that in the usual D mode, the Honda Jazz simply coasts.
Source: https://mezha.media/en/articles/honda-jazz-car-test-drive-double-hybrid/
So... really not only for going downhill...
I always drive in B mode, the only exception is when I want to use the Adaptive Cruise Control.
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Put simply, the 'D' mode is for normal driving, and 'B' mode should be used when you are going downhill.
Is that a question or a statement?
I use B mode for urban driving because it's the closest I can get to engine braking in my previous manual gearbox cars. I like to look far ahead and coast toward red traffic lights and other obsticles so I can just continue when they clear. I try to minimise braking as much as possible; that practice is more comfortable for the occupants of the car, the car itself and fuel consumption. When I want to use Adaptive Cruise Control, which I do on fast roads, I have to use D. I just switch to B or D as required while I'm moving.
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Same here, part of my IAM training was to brake to a stop without any recoil. I find it amusing when I see other drivers coming to an abrupt stop and passenger heads nodding to and fro.
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I tend to use B mode whilst in town, slow moving traffic and whilst decending hills, replicating engine braking.
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Same here, part of my IAM training was to brake to a stop without any recoil. I find it amusing when I see other drivers coming to an abrupt stop and passenger heads nodding to and fro.
My son had car sickness when he was young; modifying my driving style helped him to travel happily.