Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: RichardA on March 08, 2012, 09:15:16 PM

Title: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: RichardA on March 08, 2012, 09:15:16 PM
Some images sneaking through already:

[link removed due to possible trojan warning in Windows]
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest1521 on March 09, 2012, 07:57:54 AM
"...a  new1600 cc 4-cylinder turbo diesel engine, the maximum power of 118 hp at 4000 rpm  and torque is 300 Nm at 2000 rpm, while Honda said the new engine is lighter than diesel engines currently in the market. And exhaust emissions only 100 grams per kilometer..."

IF ACCURATE, that 300Nm@2000rpm torque figure compares very well with 127Nm@4800rpm for our current petrol 1.4 and suggests that this new diesel in a Jazz will fairly SHIFT at 50-70mph in comparison. That much extra 'twist' from low revs means there will be less excuse to enjoy our ever so sweet manual gearchange, though. That torque figure, if accurate, is grunty.

A diesel engine will much improve Jazz sales in the UK even if  its fuel savings may be more than offset by probable higher initial purchase price and ongoing more expensive maintenance/repairs vs. simple (relatively) petrol engines. On the other hand' if this 'lighter diesel engine' does not make Jazz too nose heavy, it may be an even nicer drive than the petrol... Interesting.
Thanks, Richard.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest2898 on March 09, 2012, 09:24:42 AM
Looks good and some very imformative literature there....  sounds promising!  :D
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest1521 on March 09, 2012, 05:18:32 PM
More on Honda's new diesel engine... 221 ftlb of torque is 300Nm. Appears to be a cracker of an engine... be interesting to compare its spec and output vs Ford, VW and even BMW diesels. Very interesting indeed.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/261214/
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: culzean on March 15, 2012, 06:53:18 PM
It is a regular sight at many garages when I go to fill up my petrol Jazz to see the Diesel pumps with covers on them. Personally I would be careful about getting a diesel because it does seem to be getting harder to come by.  Here is the breakdown of a standard 42 US gallon 'barrel' of crude oil.

19.4 gallons (73 liters) of petrol,
10.5 gallons (40 liters) of diesel (including heating fuel), and
4.1 gallons (16 liters) of jet fuel (kerosene), not to mention lots of other marketable stuff.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest2765 on March 24, 2012, 07:33:43 AM
so we are finally getting a bigger engine? :) haha would love a 1.6i for my jazz..or even the american 1.5 vtec from their fit's but the 1.6TD is a little offputting, my dad had a TD in the past..and when something went wrong with it, it really went wrong (at one point we had a problem with the car revving itself, we had volvo take the engine apart and they still couldnt figure out what was wrong with the car), its really put me off the idea of ever getting a TD
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: JazzyB on March 24, 2012, 01:52:28 PM
I think you can be pretty safe with a Honda engine.

Probably the best engines in the world.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest2765 on March 25, 2012, 06:42:39 AM
still dont plan to get a TD ever...even a honda :P
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: olduser1 on March 26, 2012, 08:52:36 PM
Come 2014 unleaded fuel may be £8.00-9.00 per gallon, in the UK Diesel will be higher.

So, I have taken steps by refurbishing my old Claud Butler bicycle and driving M3 + Porsche around race tracks... nearly as much enjoyment as owing my old Subaru Turbo.

PS On my PC  the above link had a warning re trojan
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: bucksfizz on March 27, 2012, 09:29:10 AM
I thought that there is a trend away from diesel.Problems with Diesel Particulate Filters and Dual mas flywheels are becoming more common and the price gap between diesel and petrol is widening.Honda won the British Touring Car Championship last year with a turbocharged petrol engine and VW/Audi have a 1.4 TFSI engine with 123BHP.Now that would make a Jazz go like a rocket!
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: RichardA on March 29, 2012, 08:21:24 PM
DPFs are not suited to urban driving. They are designed to collect the particulates at low speeds and release them at higher speeds (I understand?). Some manufacturers even state this in the owner manuals.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest2765 on March 30, 2012, 05:18:24 PM
I thought that there is a trend away from diesel.Problems with Diesel Particulate Filters and Dual mas flywheels are becoming more common and the price gap between diesel and petrol is widening.Honda won the British Touring Car Championship last year with a turbocharged petrol engine and VW/Audi have a 1.4 TFSI engine with 123BHP.Now that would make a Jazz go like a rocket!

lol agreed 123bhp would be amazing in a jazz...even the 1.5 engine out of the american Fit sport would make our jazz's go like rockets compaired to how they currently go (think its 120hp or something along those lines? a fair bit more powerful than the uk jazz's anyway)
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest2878 on March 31, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
I have had an Audi A2 1.4Tdi for nearly ten years,
the engine though a little noisey by todays standards is a little beauty
and I am sure once the new Jazz hits the showrooms with a Tdi it will be a hit to all who roadtest it.

Although I find the Jazz an excellent drive I do miss that extra pull which my A2 gives.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest3858 on March 31, 2013, 06:21:43 PM
I hate diesel engine they are fragile engine not enough power and they are not very quiet.
Gimme a petrol engine anytime diesel is the devil.... :P
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: culzean on March 31, 2013, 09:24:19 PM
For anyone interested in  power vs torque of engines here is a great explanation fron Civinfo website.

http://www.civinfo.com/index.php?page=bhp

People claim that because Diesels have more 'torque' they are more powerful than petrol engines,  but the truth is that the 2.2 civic diesel and the 1.8 Vtec have identical BHP, identical 0-60 times and same top speed despite the Diesel having twice the torque of the petrol (the diesel only revs to less than 5000,  the petrol to 7000) - also my brother in law has a Diesel and I have a petrol and he does not get any more mpg than I do, despite diesel costing more than petrol.   The reason a diesel has more torque is that to get the massive compression ratio needed the engines have a 'longer stroke' (bigger crank diameter) which naturally give more torque but limits the revs the engine can run at, and also makes the engine heavier.

Also diesels need heavier gearbox and bigger clutch to cope with lower revs and higher torque. Repair bills for Diesels compared to petrol engines will also make your eyes water. Particulate filters clog up fairly quickly on local mileage as well,  and as Richard A says, they need higher revs and longer distances to burn-off the gunge.  Dual mass flywheels (designed to take the 'lumpiness' out of diesel engine crank also fail quite regularly and are expensive to fix.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: chrisc on April 01, 2013, 07:29:52 AM
If you are prepared to put up with less performance, then a diesel should be more economical than a petrol engine.  At the workshop, we have a 1.8 petrol engine Nissan 1-ton and a 2.2 diesel Isuzu 1-ton.  Both have canopies.  The Nissan is astonishingly heavy on petrol, averaging 18l/100km (15 miles per gallon) whereas the Isuzu does 9l/100km (31 mpg).  All cars get serviced at 10000km and the Isuzu has not had any problems yet, it has covered 220000km and is 4 years old.  Performance wise, both are pretty poky but it is noticeable that the Isuzu is less willing uphill and you have to change down more often.  Our previous Isuzu lasted 6 years but unfortunately got stolen.  It turned up completely stripped on the side of the road a few weeks later, even the window glass was gone.

We only bought the Nissan as it was very cheap at the time, but it costs more to run.  You are right about the clutch though, you need a powerful left leg to push the pedal, even though it is a hydraulic cylinder.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest3418 on April 01, 2013, 09:46:44 AM
The thing is that most people will have the feeling that the diesel is quicker because most people don't thrash their engines to maximum revs. At low revs the diesel will allways win.
That's the reason that my wife still misses her Clio because of the higher torque at low revs. It had the same bhp then the jazz but it had 185Nm@2000rpm.
But I am very hesitant in buying a new diesel now because of the ever changing legislation and the fact that downsizing hasn't done diesel engines any good. They are more economical then their bigger predecessors but in practice the use the same amount of fuel. My Megane (1.5dci) for example struggles to perform better then 5.4 l/100km (constantly with about 150kg in the boot and it has a dual clutch gearbox).

Downsized petrol engines seem to perform very well because of the use of turbochargers. The VW 1.2 TSI, Renault 1.2 tce and the Ford 1.0 ecoboost are great engines with good low end torque. But we still don't know how they perform after 200.000km...

Verstuurd van mijn GT-N7100 met Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on April 01, 2013, 10:30:45 AM
How much of the enthusiasm in Europe for diesel cars is caused by the emissions legislation focusing only on CO2? Thermodynamically, the diesel cycle is more efficient so it wins in that respect although a side effect is more generation of other pollutants.

The situation isn't helped by the manufacturers of the small turbo-diesels tweaking their engines to give optimum results in the EU fuel consumption tests which don't represent real-life conditions. OK, all manufacturers tweak to get their best results but the small turbo engines give the biggest difference between laboratory and real life because of the disproportionate increase in fuel consumption every time the throttle pedal gets pushed down.

A diesel Jazz makes sense if only to compete with the others in the marketing. Whether I would buy one on account of the slightly lower fuel costs is another matter: I've got used to not being able to hear the engine running plus the hybrid system boosts the low end torque where the normal petrol engines are a bit weak.

John
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: DV on April 01, 2013, 10:34:33 AM
Don`t forget the more horses you`ve got the more fuel you`ll need (engine size does not matter).
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest3418 on April 01, 2013, 12:50:16 PM
The problem with all the smaller hybrid vehicles is that their tow weight is 0... And in a country like the Netherlands where a lot of people own caravans or tenttrailers you need to have the possibility to tow something. In the size group of the Jazz most people expect the capability to tow 1000kg.

For small cars diesel engines are not really economical anymore since the fuel consumption of petrol engines has come down a lot in recent years. When we got our previous car, a Clio dci, the difference was quite big. A petrol version would do 13 to 14km/l and the diesel version really did about 23 to 24km/l. The road tax was a lot higher so you really had to drive about 25000km each year to save money.

Verstuurd van mijn GT-N7100 met Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest4004 on April 20, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
I have been a company car driver for the last 12 years and always had a diesel, because of the mileage I do per year, which is between 40000 and 50000. If it wasn't for common rail injection, I would hate diesels. That technology has made the diesel such a fun motor, economical quiet and you can drive really lazy.
I was made redundant this year so I was carless. I had to get a cheap motor so I got a basic 11 year old Honda Jazz basic, I love the engine on this car. not particularly fast, but very willing and pulls like a demented dentist uphills. in comparison to vauxhall Corsa 1.2 and the economy is ok. but if I had to choose between a petrol and a diesel it would be a diesel with common rail injection every time (apart from vauxhall diesels which are a bit crude)
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: eagle123 on April 21, 2013, 11:24:06 PM
I still have the gd series jazz, on a 57 plate, its a idsi engine, so got two spark plugs per cylinder helping it burn the fuel hotter, compared to the newer l series the idsi torque figure starts on a lower engine rev bit like a diesel engine.

As for economy the most I got exceeded the quoted manufacture figure, I  got mine at 52 mpg, and the car in question is a 1.4 idsi.

Just wait and see whether Honda will release a more efficient engine with twin scroll turbos, 3 cylinder or like what vw and ford have done
 
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest436 on April 25, 2013, 09:47:11 PM
I traded in a BMW 118d for a new shape Civic 1.8 i-VTEC last year. Six months on and I don't miss diesel one bit.

I'd doubt if a diesel Jazz would actually make sense...but if the market wants it....
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on April 26, 2013, 05:46:02 PM
Just wait and see whether Honda will release a more efficient engine with twin scroll turbos, 3 cylinder or like what vw and ford have done
Many tests show that the advertised fuel consumption figures for the small turbo-assisted engines aren't reflected in the real world. Engines get tuned to suit the standard tests http://www.which.co.uk/cars/choosing-a-car/how-we-test-cars/how-we-test-mpg/ (http://www.which.co.uk/cars/choosing-a-car/how-we-test-cars/how-we-test-mpg/) which probably mean the turbo isn't used much. In reality, unless the driver is very light-footed, the turbo provides a means to put a lot of fuel into the cylinders quickly. This will improve performance but the economy heads in the other direction. The eurocrats need to get to work on changing the standard test criteria to better reflect real life usage.

Europe's love of diesels is caused to the focus on CO2 with disregard to the other nasties that can emerge from a diesel exhaust pipe. In some other countries (such as India) the engine preference has been distorted by diesel fuel being subsidised.

John
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: culzean on April 26, 2013, 07:36:57 PM
Europe's love of diesels is caused to the focus on CO2 with disregard to the other nasties that can emerge from a diesel exhaust pipe. In some other countries (such as India) the engine preference has been distorted by diesel fuel being subsidised.
John

I agree entirely about diesels,  they have been given a status in Europe as less polluting than petrol, which is not true as anyone who has ever followed a diesel is aware of the grey and black smoke they pump out when accelerating or going uphill.  concentrating purely on CO2 is not helpful, as diesels pump out all manner of worse stuff (a lot of it cancer causing particulates).  The particulate filter fitted to modern diesels is prone to blocking up badly on shorter runs, so using a diesel as a local runabout is asking for problems.  The American and Japanese are very aware that Diesels are dirty, and that is why they have never been popular in those countries.  When Europeans are silly enough to think bio-fuel diesel is the answer to 'sustainable low carbon energy' and buy it from Asian countries who have chopped down rainforests to plant oil palms well anything is possible. I have always loved petrol engines,  and the best in the world are made by the big H, if Yammick has traded in his BMW diesel for 1.8 vtec Civic then he is a man after my own heart and will not regret it, especially when he is up around the 7000rpm mark and the engine is sounding better than any music yet written by man.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: culzean on May 05, 2013, 09:42:24 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2175879/The-great-diesel-exposed-Its-time-ditched-inferior-vehicles.html

at last the truth about Diesel engines  is coming out ! 
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest4038 on May 06, 2013, 06:08:14 PM
....Particulate filters clog up fairly quickly on local mileage as well,  and as Richard A says, they need higher revs and longer distances to burn-off the gunge.  ....
That's exactly why we are moving from a 2.0TD Kuga to a 1.4 petrol Jazz! It became obvious that our largely local/low speed usage was going to require us to make special journeys at sustained high revs to clear the DPF (or face charges for the dealer to clear the filter) which would negate the economy advantage of the diesel engine. If you factor in the price differential in the fuel prices and the premium that diesels attract in the sticker price of the vehicle, you need to be doing a much higher mileage and at sustained higher speeds to justify a diesel nowadays.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: Jazz Hands on May 06, 2013, 07:54:54 PM
@LabRat,

You clearly bought the wrong car in 1st instance if you were doing local /low speed runs, I ran a VAG diesel for 5 years, primarily for my 60 mile a day commute to work, car never missed a beat, servicing was no more expensive than my Type R and then a 2.4EX Accord.

Since changing jobs last year it was only a matter of time before it needed to be sold as it simply wasn't doing the miles to make it worthwhile

Anyone buying a diesel needs to be doing a minimum of 15k a year and with a large percentage of motorway miles or it makes no sense.


@culzean

the "truth" regarding diesels has always been there, the only intelligent piece of journalism in that report is that petrol engines are indeed becoming more efficient
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: culzean on May 06, 2013, 09:23:24 PM
@Jazz Hands

the Americans and Japanese have known the truth about diesels for many decades (that is why diesel cars are as rare as hens teeth in those countries) - that they have been pumping out cancer causing particulates and nitrous oxides into the worlds air supply and European governments have lauded them for their 'lower Co2 emissions'. The truth is that people who smoke get cancer because of what they choose to do, the rest of us get cancer because of Diesel engines.  Anyone who has ever followed a diesel vehicle knows that they pump out clouds of muck every time the accelerator is pushed down (even modern diesels) the driver probably never sees these from his own car unless a car is following him at night when he may see it in the following headlights. 

Diesel engines were designed for lorries and trains where their low revs and higher torque (because of longer stroke required to get high compression ratio) were advantageous, putting them in a car is unnecessary, their extra weight causes problems,  and to iron out the intrinsic lumpiness and vibration of diesel (and prevent it destroying gearbox and transmission) they had to fit 'dual-mass' flywheels, and I don't know anyone who has not had to have the dual mass flywheel replaced because it has fallen apart.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: guest4038 on May 07, 2013, 10:11:26 AM
@LabRat,

You clearly bought the wrong car in 1st instance if you were doing local /low speed runs,.....

But we weren't - things change!  ;)
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: dg on May 07, 2013, 03:09:37 PM
although I hate diesel fumes, I'm looking with interest towards honda's small diesels(in order to buy used one in 5-6 years.. before tesla model S deprecates enough if it ever happen :D )
can not ignore the fact of >20% more efficient combustion cycle, petrol could not get close to that
1.6dtec is aluminium as well now, so it should bring down warm up times and weight diff

re: DMF, is it just bad engineering? they somehow deal with torque on much more high powered cars including trucks. surely it's manageable on 1.6 diesel

re: reliability, that's interesting, how existing honda diesel engines compare to their petrol ones? 2l dtecs were around for quite a while to give some stats, although my last few searches did not bring much info
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: Jazz Hands on May 07, 2013, 03:13:47 PM
@Jazz Hands

the Americans and Japanese have known the truth about diesels for many decades (that is why diesel cars are as rare as hens teeth in those countries) - that they have been pumping out cancer causing particulates and nitrous oxides into the worlds air supply and European governments have lauded them for their 'lower Co2 emissions'. The truth is that people who smoke get cancer because of what they choose to do, the rest of us get cancer because of Diesel engines.  Anyone who has ever followed a diesel vehicle knows that they pump out clouds of muck every time the accelerator is pushed down (even modern diesels) the driver probably never sees these from his own car unless a car is following him at night when he may see it in the following headlights. 

Diesel engines were designed for lorries and trains where their low revs and higher torque (because of longer stroke required to get high compression ratio) were advantageous, putting them in a car is unnecessary, their extra weight causes problems,  and to iron out the intrinsic lumpiness and vibration of diesel (and prevent it destroying gearbox and transmission) they had to fit 'dual-mass' flywheels, and I don't know anyone who has not had to have the dual mass flywheel replaced because it has fallen apart.

all common knowledge if you ask me, hence my comment

my dual mass flywheel was fine BTW :)
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: Jazz Hands on May 07, 2013, 03:15:02 PM
@LabRat,

You clearly bought the wrong car in 1st instance if you were doing local /low speed runs,.....

But we weren't - things change!  ;)

hence my specific statement, you were not crystal clear in your original post :)
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on June 30, 2013, 05:36:41 PM
Some new info and possible photos at http://www.carwale.com/news/10720-2014-honda-jazz-rendered-image-and-details-emerge.html (http://www.carwale.com/news/10720-2014-honda-jazz-rendered-image-and-details-emerge.html) (and various other sites).

John
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: Pine on July 19, 2013, 11:20:53 PM
More news of the 2014 Jazz:

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/07/this-is-all-new-2014-honda-fitt-jazz.html?m=1


Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: monkeydave on July 20, 2013, 12:16:33 AM
i see they have improved access to the spark plugs, it looks a bit dumpy and fat to copy the looks of the civic ill probably get used to it in time

the back is the worst part of it and the dash is very fussy and cluttered
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: DV on July 20, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
I like the front look but not the rear one. It looks like the boot is not as long as in the GD.
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: RichardA on July 20, 2013, 03:16:33 PM
Some more:
http://www.autozine.org/0_News/Archive/2013_07/News_frame.html
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on July 22, 2013, 10:40:58 AM
Some more:
http://www.autozine.org/0_News/Archive/2013_07/News_frame.html
Thanks. The rear end looks slightly more rounded than before. I hope the ability to handle large box-shaped objects isn't impaired.

The other information I noted is the Hybrid will be a full hybrid, not IMA.

John
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: olduser1 on July 23, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
Honestjohn has similar details for 2014 Model


Honda has announced the first details of the next generation Fit – which we call the Jazz in the UK. The Jazz will initially be sold in Japan from September 2013 but will make UK shores afterwards, probably in 2014. Honda Japan has released a few bits of specification detail, but they are subject to change for UK models. Prices will likely be slightly higher than the current Jazz.

A hybrid will be offered, as is the case with the current Jazz, but this time it will come with a seven-speed DCT dual-clutch transmission rather than a CVT automatic gearbox. It will be linked to a four-cylinder 1.5-litre engine with an integrated high-output motor. Honda promises a 35% improvement in fuel economy over the current Jazz Hybrid.

Further details are sparse – but what is obvious from the image is the styling will follow that seen on the latest generation of Honda Civic and CR-V. The new Jazz looks a little larger than the old car, with a lower roofline giving a wider, longer appearance, though official data on the dimensions hasn’t yet been released.

Price rise in UK are they mad ? The gearbox would put me off for a start


http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/new-cars/2013-07/first-details-of-next-generation-honda-jazz-emerge/
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: RichardA on August 18, 2013, 07:01:05 PM
Some more info:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/First-Official-Pictures/Honda-Jazz-Hybrid-2013-first-official-pictures/
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: John Ratsey on August 18, 2013, 08:23:55 PM
Some more info:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/First-Official-Pictures/Honda-Jazz-Hybrid-2013-first-official-pictures/
"The all four-cylinder engine line-up starts with a 97bhp 1.3-litre as well as a non-hybrid version of the 1.5-litre petrol engine."

The prospect of the 1.5 litre engine could well generate more interest in the new model.

John
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: bucksfizz on September 17, 2013, 03:24:21 PM
My son who lives in Tokyo has sent me the following link for the new Jazz.I can't understand why the caption reads 2015 when I believe that the UK and USA release dates are in 2014.
                                                 http://wot.motortrend.com/2015-honda-fit-released-in-japan-401851.html#axzz2e2sb4T4o
Title: Re: 2014 Honda Jazz
Post by: RichardA on October 17, 2013, 08:21:16 PM
My son who lives in Tokyo has sent me the following link for the new Jazz.I can't understand why the caption reads 2015 when I believe that the UK and USA release dates are in 2014.
                                                 http://wot.motortrend.com/2015-honda-fit-released-in-japan-401851.html#axzz2e2sb4T4o

The US is into it's model years. A car released in late 2014 or even mid way through the year would be branded as a '2015 model'.