Author Topic: Battery going flat?  (Read 13786 times)

SteveOne

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 03:14:43 PM »
My Mk2 ES+ CVT was built early 2014 and has a Varta battery - is this original fitment ?  I would have expected a Yuasa battery.   I left an interior light on for 24 hours and the battery was dead (I might have noticed if the light was brighter, or perhaps if I was brighter :)).  I charged it and the battery appears to be OK, its green indicator is now lit, as before the discharge.
I'm a bit disappointed that such a small light could discharge the battery so that I didn't even get a single crank out of the engine - especially as the light (one of the pair behind the mirror) was so useless that I'd forgot that I had switched it on.  The car is normally fine if left for a week or so, so I don't think there are any non-intentional drains on the battery.

Jocko

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 04:16:41 PM »
I would be a bit disappointed too, as it is only an 8 watt bulb drawing about 670 mA. If your battery is the original it may be a bit tired by now. The green indicator only shows the condition (SG) of one cell.

culzean

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2018, 07:26:50 PM »
Original battery could be any make ( lowest bidder ) - I have had problems with Varta batteries in the past, only get Yuasa now, for cars and bikes.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

SteveOne

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 09:14:57 AM »
Thanks for the comments.  I can't find any mention of battery replacement in the service history, so I assume it's the original.  The Varta battery in my wife's Clio is now 9 years old and is still going strong, but is a much bigger battery, physically.  I often used to use the 'map' lights in my primera and they were decent lights, and never caused any problems. 
I've tried looking for some LED lights to replace the useless cabin lights, but no luck so far. I'll put an LED torch in the car to use for now.

nigelr

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2018, 08:03:30 PM »
@Jocko - absolutely spot on. Oddly enough, the battery has just gone flat on my new (to me) Jazz and it looks like the original battery on my 2013 model, so I'm just replacing it. (SteveOne) if it helps, the battery on my 2013 is the original Varta unit and it's quite a small battery - but given the Jazz's diddy bonnet I guess that's understandable - real estate is at a premium under there.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 08:09:36 PM by nigelr »

SteveOne

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2018, 02:01:26 PM »
Thanks nigelr, I think my Varta battery is probably the original.  It's been OK since I recharged it and the car starts easily. I don't use the cabin lights anymore, and I wouldn't be happy listening to the radio with the engine off - such as I might do when waiting for someone at the station.
I was told that the Jazz battery was physically small before I bought one, I'm glad I didn't get the Mk3 which has even more electical load, including stop/start.  In fact, the more I hear about the Mk3 - including DMFs - the happier I am with the Mk2.
When I have a nice cold morning and I can put a high load onto the battery, I'll hook my oscilloscope across the terminals (with a 20sec timebase) and see what happens during a start - failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.

John Ratsey

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2018, 02:06:12 PM »
When I have a nice cold morning and I can put a high load onto the battery, I'll hook my oscilloscope across the terminals (with a 20sec timebase) and see what happens during a start - failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.
There's no need to get so scientific: First put the headlights on and see if they go dim when the starter motor is in use.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2018, 05:22:46 PM »
I have never had either a MK1 or MK2 Jazz battery even look like going flat on me,  so I don't think small battery size is the problem - modern EFI cars start a lot easier than they used to and modern alternators are better at charging battery on short runs and moder control circuits control the charge voltage better, but the big killer of batteries is keeping them in a low state of charge (<80%).   But I don't leave a battery on a car longer than 5 years, after that they are on borrowed time.   Especially with a CVT you need to fit the best battery you can afford as if you have battery problems there is no way of starting the car except the battery or a jump start.

failing batteries typically show large downward spikes on the trace.

As a battery gets older its internal resistance increases, that means that when you draw starting amps (say 200 amps) from a new battery the voltage at terminals may drop to 9 volts,  as battery ages the terminal voltage drops when current is drawn and at 5 years old it may be nearer 6 or 7 volts.  That is why some garages pretend to give a battery a load test,  but their kit will not draw enough current to get meaningful results.

As John Ratsey says,  just get someone to watch headlights dim ( may not work with LED bulbs though) - like an oscilloscope but cheaper......
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 05:39:38 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2018, 05:50:04 PM »
The original Yuasa battery in our Toyota Yaris died at 10 years old#. The 6 year old Yuasa battery in the Jazz appears to be going strong (touch wood!).

# Its replacement - a Bosch (from ECP) - died at 3 years into a 4 year warranty and its (free) Exide replacement  is now 2.5  years old . 

nigelr

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2018, 12:47:12 AM »
Glad it's sorted, Steve. I agree about the Mk3 - and most newer cars in general - increasing number of electrical circuits and loads -- I'm not a fan of stop / start -- and I too am happy with my Mk2.

Jocko

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2018, 06:40:17 AM »
I have a Mk 1 but I turn of the ignition every time I stop at a known long traffic light (well, at least if it turns red as I approach!). Most of my travel is on short local routes, where I know when to switch off and when not. I never have any bother with battery issues, even though I listen to the radio when parked waiting for my wife (a regular occurrence) and leave the car doors open when washing and polishing the car. My battery is 2 years old (RAC, 5 years guarantee).
I have just come back from dropping my wife at her work. Because car is kept in the garage, I start it, drive out then switch off after 10 seconds while I go to lock the garage door. I then drive her to work, switch off while she gathers her things and until I see her safely into the building, and today (as usual), I got stuck at the 3 minute traffic light. So I switch off there too. I do switch to sidelights while sitting, but I have my blower on (no need for rear demister since car was garaged). That is my Monday to Friday throughout the winter. 3.6 miles at 6 am, then the same to pick her up at lunch time.
I don't know if I am just lucky, or if the low tech of the Mk 1 (no alarm, remote locking driver assist sensors, etc) places much less demand on the battery

SteveOne

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2018, 10:30:32 AM »
Hello Jocko.  I agree - a car battery should be able to handle that sort of use without any problems.  Perhaps the Jazz protected the battery from too much current drain, the locks all worked, the dash lights came on, but the mult-information display didn't, and the engine wouldn't turn over.  The battery appears to have recovered without any problems, and the car starts easily after being left for several days.
I don't know why others think the oscilloscope is so difficult - It's not much much bigger than a DVM, and I just clip it onto the battery terminals - it just gives me a display relative to time and lets me measure voltage drops etc, I can use the headlights & HRW to add to the load.  The test didn't show any problem, probably because the engine fires up immediately.
I don't use the interior lights anymore

culzean

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2018, 04:20:10 PM »
I don't know why others think the oscilloscope is so difficult - It's not much much bigger than a DVM, and I just clip it onto the battery terminals - it just gives me a display relative to time and lets me measure voltage drops etc, I can use the headlights & HRW to add to the load.  The test didn't show any problem, probably because the engine fires up immediately.
I don't use the interior lights anymore

99% of normal people don't have a oscilloscope in their toolbox - I used to use them for catching transient events and complex waveforms, but for checking car battery voltage drop, nahhhh ! If I had paid for one and was looking to use it, maybe - but IMHO bit of an overkill.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2018, 04:33:45 PM »
In my experience 99% of electrical engineers don't have an oscilloscope in their tool box, but it you have it, why not use it. Scopes have come a long way from what I cut my teeth on.


Jazzman79

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Re: Battery going flat?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2021, 02:54:42 PM »
Just been reading through these posts on Honda Jazz and wondering if someone can help me out as have similar fault.

Have an ongoing nightmare of an issue with my 'Honda Jazz MK2 1.4se 2005 model.

Garage replaced EPS Control unit and same fault intermittently reoccurring ? All fault codes have been cleared via OBI.

Car starts 1st time every time even if left parked up for a week without any use albeit, now too dangerous to drive as when EPS light comes on its like driving a tank.

Battery appears to be ok although, not an original Honda Battery but been on car for 2.5 years so far and guaranteed for 5. Also, have noted some people posting on other sites that when control unit is replaced, it has to be ''calibrated'' reset?  And others say, just do a straight swap /plug and play so to speak?

Any help or advice on this greatly appreciated.

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