Mk4 2021 Jazz Brake failure

[BigT]

Hi guys, I started my car a couple of days ago and the warning system lit up like a Christmas Tree with Brake Failure followed by a string of other warnings. I moved the car a short distance on my driveway and yes, the brakes had indeed failed.

A call to Honda led me to the AA under the Honda Care Program. The AA checked the vehicle and was unable to find a fault. Fortunately I had taken photos of the warnings. Long story short, the car was taken to my Honda dealer by the AA who also arranged a Hire Car with Enterprise for 3 days. That will elapse shortly, hopefully Honda will extend the use of the hire care until my car is fixed. Honda tested the vehicle the following day and found the same issues. Apparently diagnostics have been sent to Honda for their opinion. Two questions, do Honda provide hire cars/loaner whilst work is being carried out until the car is fixed and has anyone else experienced the same brake failure problem on the new Jazz? Many thanks.

UPDATE:

First of all, thanks to all of you who replied. Moments ago I spoke with my Honda Dealer. The failure of the brakes was due to a failed 'Brake Simulator' which was explained to me as being an electronic servo as opposed to a hydraulic one. An order for a spare part has been made, which was originally set to be delivered sometime in MAY. Apparently that has now been brought forward to the 1st March...ish. Meanwhile Honda Care are paying for a rather nice Nissan high spec'd Juke Automatic. Thats been on hire for 5 weeks so far costing Honda Care circa £1,500, with another month to go. All I can say is TG we took out the extended Honda Care + warranty. The bill is going to be at least £3,000 for the Hire Car, plus whatever costs are involved in the repair. I suspect their wouldn't be much change out of 5K. Anyway I will let you know how it goes when we have a solution. Stay safe everybody. Best regards, T

[coldstart]

How unfortunate! - Care to share the photos of the messages?

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

Hiya ! That’s worrying to read of such a failure ! You would hope the default position was that car wouldn’t move or if in motion the handbrake button would stop the car and not allow further movement ?

[Whiteshark]

Well I think if a display lights up as a warning, it should be pretty clear not to drive. If you think about it and link it bringing on the hand brake in motion, that in itself could also be a risk.

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

If you had brake failure , that is the brake pedal doesn’t operate anything -then the only option is to use the handbrake . This applies all four disc brakes using the electric servo motors -powered by the 12v battery -this means it’s a fail safe system in case of a failure in The HV battery and hybrid system . Once stopped the car cannot be moved without powering up the HV system . I believe ( and expect someone can confirm ) that the Honda hybrid braking technology is as Toyotas . They have a mechanical link in the brake pedal which can operate the powered hydraulic circuit in case if an electronic failure in the braking controls .  The hybrid braking is mostly accommodated using the generator / electric motor via regen braking . Only at low speeds are the disc brakes used and in parking . Also when the vehicle stability dynamic controls require individual / multiple wheel braking will the discs brakes be activated .I’m including emergency braking as vehicle stability as this is effectively is anti lock braking element

[Whiteshark]

I think I have confusion in your original post. I read it that the hand brake would automatically stop the vehicle which is how I read it, rather than being able to stop the car by activating the hand brake, which I agree with,  and is how you would normally first react with a manual handbrake in any event.

[Kremmen]

So the normal route of brake pedal, hydraulics, disc to pad didn't work ?

Normally you do have brakes but without servo assist or whatever

So was it brake failure or electric parking brake failure

[coldstart]

Unfortunately @BigT hasn't yet posted the photos with the exact error messages.
So we are limited to idle speculation.

[davejazz]

Unfortunately @BigT hasn't yet posted the photos with the exact error messages.
So we are limited to idle speculation.

So,…do we have any update yet BigT ?

[BigT]

Hi, thanks for your patience, it taken a month for Honda to diagnose and order spares. Please see my update to the original post.....

[olduser1]

Great job getting to the source of fault. I love to see where the part was made and what caused the failure point.

[PeteS]

My 2020 Jazz also came up with a Christmas tree of dashboard lights in early December - everything you can imagine that's connected with braking problems and an ES steering warning too. The brake pedal felt very soft. Honda assistance came out and the car started - without the light-show, but while he was waiting to check the error codes, the lights re-appeared, so in it went to the dealership. They took a week for Honda to diagnose a "brake pedal feel simulator kit" fault. The Jazz is about 6 months out of warranty but they Honda did agree a contribution and therefore a hire car. The part (£1,760-ish) is out of stock, expected March.  I believe that they know about other customers with the same problem....

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

So that’s the second failure of the brake system !! Bit worrying ?

[Saycol]

This certainly is worrying!

Big T, may I ask the age and mileage of your car? I assume 3 years plus as you state you are relieved that you bought the extended warranty.

[Kremmen]

What was wrong with the decades old, reliable, servo assisted hydraulic brakes

These fancy systems seem unreliable to me