Electric cars

[John Ratsey]

Witha claimed range of 163 miles. I am 100% disinterested.

According to this review https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road-tests/mg/mg-zs-ev-2019-road-test/? the range increases for town driving which suggests that the 163 mile nominal range could be stretched by avoiding higher speeds (the same may apply to the Honda e). It's almost tempting to get one at the entry price although it lacks a few useful features (eg electric folding mirrors) which I've got used to having. I've decided that an EV range of a bit over 200 miles would be enough for me as that's the maximum I tend to drive in one day. More battery = higher cost but also means more weight being lugged around.

[Jocko]

Sounds good provided it doesn't rust away.

[sparky Paul]

Sounds good provided it doesn't rust away.

If they're made with the same boron steel everything else is made of these days, they won't rust. Can't weld the bloody stuff anyway!

I know these Chinese MGs aren't going to be everybody's cup of tea, but it just shows how things are going. The Chinese are coming, and they are gearing up big for battery and EV production.

[Jocko]

Though Boron Steel was only used in specific parts.

[sparky Paul]

Though Boron Steel was only used in specific parts.

It's being used for bodyshells and panels now, and even things like exhausts - they can make them so much thinner and lighter. I know that because we tried to weld up a hole in one!

[culzean]

Though Boron Steel was only used in specific parts.

High strength steels very common in vehicle bodies now,  it is surprising how much weight you save by going down a gauge on steel. I worked on latest jaguar car bodies,  a mixture of aluminium and high strength BH zinc coated steel ( BH is bake hardening) the steels get full hardness and strength when painted bodies go through ovens. Problem is the steels harden more slowly at room temperature and approaching 6 months after the sheet is made it is impossible to press into shape because it has hardened so much it just cracks and splits and springs back from pressed shape,  during final processing at steel mill they actually print the date it was made along the strip like a best before or use by date, most presses now fed with pre cut blanks so blanks had date on as well.  Very difficult to weld, instead of nut normally welded to steel panels clinched nuts are used, and aluminium bits joined with self piercing rivets and high tech adhesives.

[Jocko]

Just watched last night's "Revolutions: Ideas that changed the world. The Car."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000775k/revolutions-the-ideas-that-changed-the-world-series-1-2-the-car
A fascinating programme for anyone interested in the motor car, but with interesting facts around electric cars.
It explains how, when ICE cars first came on the scene there was no infrastructure and problems in refuelling(!) but problems with pollution (horse manure), helped its uptake. In 1900, 30% of motor vehicles were electric.
There was an interesting section on Graphene batteries, the real future of electric power storage. When they are scaled up from the current laboratory experiments, they could provide all the answers to electric cars. Basically, the car body will be manufactured from Graphene (lighter and stronger than steel) and this will be the battery. A Graphene battery can be charged as quickly as a petrol tank can be filled (no idea how they will transfer that much energy that quickly).

But as I said, an interesting programme for anyone with interest in the envelopment of the car as a means of transport (did you know the invention of the axle was more important than the wheel itself?).

[peteo48]

I saw that as well Jocko. As you say it looks as if lithium ion batteries will be a "bridging" form of automotive power.

I liked the section on horse manure in New York!

[Jocko]

I could not believe there was about 1500 tons A DAY, deposited on New York streets, back in 1900. That's a lot of roses!

[madasafish]

Sounds good provided it doesn't rust away.

Halve all quoted ranges in winter

[Jocko]

Halve all quoted ranges in winter

What winter? This past winter, here in Fife, has been little colder than out normal summer. Perhaps the EV manufacturers have factored climate change into their calculations!

[peteo48]

I don't you need to halve the range of your EV in winter. My pal has had his 24 kwh Leaf for 3 years now. Admittedly he drives like a granny on tranquilisers but he gets 90 in summer and that goes down to around 70 in really cold weather. Actually he reckons heavy rain is also a big factor in reducing range.

[madasafish]

Halve all quoted ranges in winter

What winter? This past winter, here in Fife, has been little colder than out normal summer. Perhaps the EV manufacturers have factored climate change into their calculations!

Some of us live at altitude  and not near the sea..so get colder winters than those on the coast

[peteo48]

Halve all quoted ranges in winter

What winter? This past winter, here in Fife, has been little colder than out normal summer. Perhaps the EV manufacturers have factored climate change into their calculations!

Some of us live at altitude  and not near the sea..so get colder winters than those on the coast

Yes - good point - to be fair my pal lives in a flat area (Cheshire Plain as do I) and this must be a factor. Also really rubbish winter weather is quite rare round these parts - even after the beast from the east there wasn't enough snow in our back garden for a decent snowball fight

[John Ratsey]

Regarding the effect of winter see long-term tests such as https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/kia/e-niro/106587/kia-e-niro-long-term-test-review. I deduce no more than a 20% hit on the mileage. Unlike an internal combustion engine a battery vehicle is not guzzling extra fuel until it warms up. The extra power drain is caused by accessories and, sensibly, these are power efficient (eg a heat pump instead of direct electric heating) although I don't see LED headlights as standard on all the EVs (the standard testing might not include having the headlights on during part of the cycle).

There's another long-term test at https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/kona/105381/hyundai-kona-electric-premium-se-long-term-test-review .