Author Topic: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....  (Read 966 times)

MartinJG

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To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« on: September 23, 2021, 06:41:27 PM »
The beast is due for its MOT next week so a clean filter would probably do no harm on the emissions front. I have always replaced it annually, but last year, one of the Allparts team suggested a simple clean might be a cheaper fix. I would not disagree with him in principle but since they are made of fancy paper raises doubts as to whether a fluid clean would really just damage the filter. A vicious vacuum suck will not remove the embedded dirt/dust. Of course, the other solution is to buy a reusable/cleanable filter but there is one problem. I can't seem to find any for a reasonable price. Well, team, any thoughts on this one?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 06:45:34 PM by MartinJG »

culzean

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2021, 06:53:41 PM »
The beast is due for its MOT next week so a clean filter would probably do no harm on the emissions front. I have always replaced it annually, but last year, one of the Allparts team suggested a simple clean might be a cheaper fix. I would not disagree with him in principle but since they are made of fancy paper raises doubts as to whether a fluid clean would really just damage the filter. A vicious vacuum suck will not remove the embedded dirt/dust. Of course, the other solution is to buy a reusable/cleanable filter but there is one problem. I can't seem to find any for a reasonable price. Well, team, any thoughts on this one?

The O2 sensors and fuel injection should take care of a partially blocked air filter.  Try Opie oils for reasonably priced filters,  they supply Mahle ( Austria ) and Bosch mainly...but do have other brands. Bosch less than £10, Mahle a couple of quid more.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 06:57:04 PM by culzean »
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guest4871

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2021, 07:52:49 PM »
Yes, it seems you can wash them. I never have. Too much hassle.

No doubt youtube can tell you how.

My experience with Bosch air filters is very disappointing. Branded Bosch but not to Bosch's normal standards. Crosland is also very poor. Both made in Hungary IIRC. I won't use them again. They are cheap for a reason?

I have had very good experience with FRAM. I suspect most garages would use MANN.

Others will have views.

culzean

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2021, 08:55:13 PM »
Yes, it seems you can wash them. I never have. Too much hassle.

No doubt youtube can tell you how.

My experience with Bosch air filters is very disappointing. Branded Bosch but not to Bosch's normal standards. Crosland is also very poor. Both made in Hungary IIRC. I won't use them again. They are cheap for a reason?

I have had very good experience with FRAM. I suspect most garages would use MANN.

Others will have views.

It is debatable whether an air filter even needed in UK, not really a dusty country like say Saudi or Australia.  How you would ever know if an air filter 'not working very well' is beyond me, I have used Bosch and Mahle air and Mahle oil filters and most of my cars done north of 100,000 miles, one did 190,000 miles.

Best way to clean an air filter is a blow out from reverse side with air gun, but at less than a tenner for a new one, why bother ?

Vast majority of the black film on my filters is undoubtedly diesel particulates and tyre dust, not gritty sandy particles that would cause engine wear.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 07:15:07 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

embee

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2021, 09:16:55 AM »
The medium used in air filters has a progressive pore size through the thickness, wide on the dirty side and smaller on the clean side. This is to maximise the dirt capacity while minimising the restriction. Large particles get caught on the dirty side, smaller particles go further through before getting trapped.
Air boxes are often designed to direct incoming air at one general area of the filter element so that heavier dirt gets deposited in one spot, leaving much of the element pretty much clean. This is intentional, pile up the dirt in one place and the overall life is extended.
Generally speaking you will make very little difference by trying to clean a paper/synthetic type air filter. At best you get some of the big loose stuff off the dirty face, but this doesn't usually contribute much to the overall restriction. Smaller stuff caught within the medium doesn't usually come out by back-flowing.
I wouldn't go as far as the suggestion that an air filter is not really needed in the UK, I think that was probably tongue in cheek knowing Culzean, but certainly UK air quality is pretty clean. However any dirt contaminating any sort of hot mass air flow sensor (MAF) is not good, so should be avoided.
The only thing I draw a line at is the oiled re-usable type of air filter. Fine for competition use to stop birds and small children going into the intake, but not for a road car.
 Based on experience of developing air filter systems for cars, I would suggest that 25k miles is a perfectly sensible life for a typical UK car air filter. Even an OE Honda air filter thus works out at around the £1 per 1k miles, compared to around around £100 per 1k miles for fuel. Treat air filters as a consumable and a cheap one at that.
I quite like the Mahle air filter technology if you want an aftermarket make, Opie do them either direct or via their ebay shop. I don't have connection with Opie but have had connection with Mahle professionally, though I try to remain impartial.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2021, 09:19:27 AM by embee »

MartinJG

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2021, 10:10:31 AM »
The medium used in air filters has a progressive pore size through the thickness, wide on the dirty side and smaller on the clean side. This is to maximise the dirt capacity while minimising the restriction. Large particles get caught on the dirty side, smaller particles go further through before getting trapped.
Air boxes are often designed to direct incoming air at one general area of the filter element so that heavier dirt gets deposited in one spot, leaving much of the element pretty much clean. This is intentional, pile up the dirt in one place and the overall life is extended.
Generally speaking you will make very little difference by trying to clean a paper/synthetic type air filter. At best you get some of the big loose stuff off the dirty face, but this doesn't usually contribute much to the overall restriction. Smaller stuff caught within the medium doesn't usually come out by back-flowing.
I wouldn't go as far as the suggestion that an air filter is not really needed in the UK, I think that was probably tongue in cheek knowing Culzean, but certainly UK air quality is pretty clean. However any dirt contaminating any sort of hot mass air flow sensor (MAF) is not good, so should be avoided.
The only thing I draw a line at is the oiled re-usable type of air filter. Fine for competition use to stop birds and small children going into the intake, but not for a road car.
 Based on experience of developing air filter systems for cars, I would suggest that 25k miles is a perfectly sensible life for a typical UK car air filter. Even an OE Honda air filter thus works out at around the £1 per 1k miles, compared to around around £100 per 1k miles for fuel. Treat air filters as a consumable and a cheap one at that.
I quite like the Mahle air filter technology if you want an aftermarket make, Opie do them either direct or via their ebay shop. I don't have connection with Opie but have had connection with Mahle professionally, though I try to remain impartial.

That was comprehensive. Thanks.

culzean

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Re: To replace the air filter or to clean it. That is the question....
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2021, 11:40:45 AM »
My Suzuki DRZ400 off road motorbike had a large oiled sponge air cleaner element, not the oiled metal mesh used by other reusable filters, which I have never trusted.... Mahle to me are a reasonably priced decent quality air filter that I am happy to use, same with their oil and cabin filters, and Opie service is good.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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