Author Topic: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report  (Read 7015 times)

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2021, 03:03:45 PM »

Climate change is very lucrative if you are in the right place,  and if you disagree you get 'cancelled'.
Yep, but it's not those giving the warnings about it who stand to make the money. It's the big oil companies and rich industrialists in pursuit of ever increasing GDP and media barons  and the politicians of the Republican and Conservative parties and their equivalents who receive their backing.
They have continued to suppress the warnings of global warnings for decades in pursuit of profit in much the same way as tobacco companies denied the damaging effects of smoking.
These same people will be least affected by the damage they have caused and again profit by buying up land and resources cheaply after the devastation for which they have been responsible.


Edit Corrected typo then added to rant.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think you are absolutely and completely and 100% wrong.

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2021, 03:10:42 PM »

What makes us think that planet Earth will treat us differently to any of the other mass extinction events that have happened? In the geological timeframe, we are nothing. Just another blip. Earth will go on and we will be swept aside and some other species will become dominant.

Peace be with you...

If you don't mind me saying so, so perfectly expressed.

culzean

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2021, 04:31:33 PM »

What makes us think that planet Earth will treat us differently to any of the other mass extinction events that have happened? In the geological timeframe, we are nothing. Just another blip. Earth will go on and we will be swept aside and some other species will become dominant.

Peace be with you...

If you don't mind me saying so, so perfectly expressed.

+1

'Don't worry, be happy ' !  :)
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2021, 04:51:33 PM »
UK contributes <1% to global CO2.   The biggest CO2 producers are putting their economy first and are still building coal fired power stations. There is a freedom of information court order for the government / treasury to provide access to the true cost of net zero carbon for UK,  at the moment treasury say they 'lost the figures' LOL, which the high court judge rightfully laughed out of court.  Eye watering figure into the £trillions are quoted, and who will pay via energy costs and prices, the ones who always pay - us ( governments do not have any money  of their own, they get it from businesses and taxpayers ).   For UK to subject us to this cost with minuscule effect on 'the problem' is madness.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 11:17:15 AM by RichardA »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2021, 07:05:26 PM »
I don't know another way to post this ( except attach as PDF ) because the article is behind Spectator Magazine paywall...  so I  just cut and paste it.


Ross Clark

10 August 2021, 6:41pm

What's the truth about the UN's 'code red' climate warning?



Predictably enough, the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report has been greeted with hyperbole about fire, flood and tempest. It is 'code red for humanity,' according to UN general-secretary Antonio Guterres. 'This report must sound a death knell for coal and fossil fuels before they destroy our planet.'

As ever with IPCC reports, the content doesn’t live up to the hysterical reviews. If the vision presented in it were the basis of a disaster movie you would want your money back.

No, it doesn’t say that the German floods were caused by man-made climate change – something implied by much of the press coverage, which used photos of the damage in Rhineland towns to illustrate the publication of the report. What it says – to quote from the ‘summary for policymakers’ – is that 'Globally averaged precipitation over land has likely increased since 1950, with a faster rate of increase since the 1980s (medium confidence)' – in other words we think, but we are not all that sure, that the world is experiencing higher rainfall. Somehow, that gets converted by some into an assertion that climate change has created an event such as the German floods out of nothing.

But the summary for policymakers is itself a distilled version which omits many of the complex changes observed in the climate over the past century, the uncertainties and caveats surrounding these – and the efforts to compare these changes with what has happened in the past few thousand years so as to judge whether they might be accounted by natural variability. These are published in the body of the report. Perhaps the most interesting section relates to storms. Over the past few years, it has become common practice to blame any storm on man-made climate change. TV reports on the subject almost invariably carry footage of palm trees being bent over by lashing winds of a tropical storm.

Yet the assertion that we are experience greater storms is not supported by the evidence in the IPCC report. The report finds evidence that storm tracks have shifted polewards over the past 70 years. But this is what it says, in chapter 2:

'..the total number of extratropical cyclones has likely increased since the 1980s in the NH (low 10 confidence), but with fewer deep cyclones particularly in summer. The number of strong extratropical cyclones has likely increased in the southern hemisphere (medium confidence). The extratropical jets and cyclone tracks have likely been shifting poleward in both hemispheres since the 1980s with marked seasonality in trends (medium confidence). There is low confidence in shifting of extratropical jets in the NH during the mid-Holocene and over 950–1400 CE to latitudes that likely were similar to those since 1979.'

In other words, the northern hemisphere is experiencing more storms, but fewer deep ones. They tend to track a slightly higher latitude than they did 40 years ago but there is some evidence that this trend was also evident during medieval times, before large scale burning of fossil fuels.

As for tropical monsoons, the report says:

'observed trends during the last century indicate that the GM precipitation decline reported in AR5 [the last IPCC report] has reversed since the 1980s, with a likely increase mainly due to a significant positive trend in the northern hemisphere summer monsoon precipitation (medium confidence). However, global monsoon precipitation has exhibited large multi decadal variability over the last century, creating low confidence in the existence of centennial-length trends in the instrumental record. Proxy reconstructions show a likely northern hemisphere monsoons weakening since the mid- Holocene, with opposite behaviour for the southern hemisphere monsoons.'

In other words, tropical monsoons have been getting wetter over the past 40 years, but the trend isn’t clear because of high variability. That hardly justifies apocalyptic visions of great storms. Indeed, the report notes a general weakening of windspeeds over land – with the exception of Australia. That is what might be expected if, as data suggests, the Arctic is warming faster than the tropics, reducing the differential in temperature between the two.

None of this is to say there are not some reasons for worry contained in the report. Sea level rise generally seems to be accelerating, from 1.3 mm per year between 1901 and 1971 to 3.7 mm per year between 2006 and 2018. That is a manageable problem in the short term but could become a much more serious one in the longer term.

More powerful heatwaves are creating problems in climates which are already hot – but are balanced by fewer cold spells elsewhere.

There are good reasons to want to reduce carbon emissions, to zero if possible. But the apocalyptic visions trotted out to accompany the publication of this IPCC report – as in common with previous IPCC reports – bear little relation to the scientific content within.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 07:07:27 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2021, 08:51:59 PM »
I don't know another way to post this ( except attach as PDF ) because the article is behind Spectator Magazine paywall...  so I  just cut and paste it.


Ross Clark

Ross Clark (born 12 September 1966) is a British journalist and author whose work has appeared in The Spectator, The Times and other publications.[1] He is the author of several books, including How to Label a Goat: the silly Rules and Regulations that are strangling Britain and The Great Before, a novel which satirised the pessimism of the Green movement.[2] He is a frequent critic of British government policy, especially on its interventions in the housing market.[3]
.[5] He established himself as a freelance journalist, with his work appearing in The Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph, the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday and The Times, where he frequently writes the Thunderer column. His work is strongly associated with libertarianism and free market economics.
From Wikipedia.



Scientists can never really state with certainty that the fires, heat waves,storms and floods we are experiencing just now are caused by global warming but they can be certain that temperatures are rising due to increasing concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases and have been warning for decades that the likely effect of this would be more dramatic extremes in the weather . They are also certain that the increased levels of greenhouse gases are due to human activity.
They can also state that certainty that sea levels are rising due to melting ice caps.
If papers and television reports were couched in such cautious terms they would be extremely boring but I don't think the implied connections are unjustified.


MartinJG

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2021, 09:36:07 PM »
I think we can all agree on one thing. The human race needs to clean up its act. Decimating the Amazon rain forest, an essential part of our ecology, for cattle farmers to supply the 'Big Mac' empire is one of stupidest things I have enountered.  They are already finding the soil structure is not suitable and is gradually 'shrinking' and becoming depleted at a much quicker rate than traditional grazing pastures. The Yanks excelled in this skill when they cut all the trees down for grazing in the Mississippi Delta which subsequently resulted in the notorious 'Dust bowl' where all the depleted soil was blown and washed into the river network and out to sea. Not bad work for thousands of years of evolution, but gee whizz, they did the job in quick time.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 09:57:17 PM by MartinJG »

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2021, 09:55:56 PM »

Ross Clark


Ross Clark (born 12 September 1966) is a British journalist and author whose work has appeared in The Spectator, The Times and other publications.[1] He is the author of several books, including How to Label a Goat: the silly Rules and Regulations that are strangling Britain and The Great Before, a novel which satirised the pessimism of the Green movement.[2] He is a frequent critic of British government policy, especially on its interventions in the housing market.[3]
.[5] He established himself as a freelance journalist, with his work appearing in The Daily Telegraph and Sunday Telegraph, the Daily Express, the Daily Mail and The Mail on Sunday and The Times, where he frequently writes the Thunderer column. His work is strongly associated with libertarianism and free market economics.
From Wikipedia.



And, so - he is a writer and freelance journalist. Anything wrong with that?

As you have often said "If you don't like it, you don't have to read it".

nowster

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2021, 10:10:41 PM »
Ross Clark (born 12 September 1966) is a British journalist...

One has to be careful not to descend to the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

It goes, "So-and-so said this, but so-and-so is associated with such-and-such, therefore so-and-so must be wrong."

Play the ball, not the person.

Conversely,

'One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.' (Carl Sagan)

It's a thorny issue.

All you can be sure of is that politicians will want to raise taxes based on it.

JimSh

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2021, 10:17:37 PM »

Ross Clark






And, so - he is a writer and freelance journalist. Anything wrong with that?

As you have often said "If you don't like it, you don't have to read it".
I was just pointing out his affiliations.
Maybe I'm biased against "journalists" who write for the Telegraph, Express and Mail and whose work is associated with libertarinism and free market economics.
Or maybe journalists who write for the Telegraph, Express and the Mail might be biased against scientists advocating
cutting emissions and other green policies to mitigate the effects of global warming

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2021, 10:20:19 PM »

Scientists can never really state with certainty that the fires, heat waves,storms and floods we are experiencing just now are caused by global warming but they can be certain that temperatures are rising due to increasing concentrations of CO2 and other greenhouse gases and have been warning for decades that the likely effect of this would be more dramatic extremes in the weather . They are also certain that the increased levels of greenhouse gases are due to human activity.
They can also state that certainty that sea levels are rising due to melting ice caps.
If papers and television reports were couched in such cautious terms they would be extremely boring but I don't think the implied connections are unjustified.

Scientists do not "state".

According to The Science Council:

A scientist is someone who systematically gathers and uses research and evidence, to make hypotheses and test them, to gain and share understanding and knowledge.

OK  - some scientists have a hypothesis which "vested interests" insist you believe is a scientific law. Their "test" results (data and forecasts) are, and have been, very variable, unreliable and incorrect in all the years in which the IPCC has been reporting.

OK - sea levels are rising due to melting ice caps. Nothing new in that - the Thames Barrier was built 40 years ago*.

 You don't need to be a scientist to spot that :o








guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2021, 10:22:22 PM »
Ross Clark (born 12 September 1966) is a British journalist...

One has to be careful not to descend to the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

It goes, "So-and-so said this, but so-and-so is associated with such-and-such, therefore so-and-so must be wrong."

Play the ball, not the person.

Conversely,

'One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.' (Carl Sagan)

It's a thorny issue.

All you can be sure of is that politicians will want to raise taxes based on it.

+1

JimSh

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2021, 10:27:57 PM »


Conversely,

'One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.' (Carl Sagan)


I was not supporting an argument from authority.
I  was supporting a report  authored by 234 scientists in 66 countries.
I just hope that the authorities will take heed of it and not just make empty meaningless promises for the distant future.
Action is needed now not plans for 2030 or 2040.

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2021, 10:44:44 PM »
If papers and television reports were couched in such cautious terms they would be extremely boring but I don't think the implied connections are unjustified.

The media is not helped by stories fed to them by the IPCC which have been deliberately alarmist and deliberately misrepresent their research and conclusions.

The press conference which launched this was deliberately overstated to capture attention and fire up headlines

The research and conclusions fed to the media are at the extreme ranges in the report, not a reasonable expectation.

Bless them, the media tend just to report what is handed to them (i.e. press releases and pre written articles).

guest4871

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Re: UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2021, 10:56:44 PM »


Conversely,

'One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.' (Carl Sagan)


I was not supporting an argument from authority.
I  was supporting a report  authored by 234 scientists in 66 countries.
I just hope that the authorities will take heed of it and not just make empty meaningless promises for the distant future.
Action is needed now not plans for 2030 or 2040.

Come on, if a report from the United Nations, the IPCC, 234 scientists in 66 countries is not an argument from authority, what is?

What "action now" do you propose?

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