Enjoyment of driving the Mk4 Jazz

[aphybrid]

Hi Guys
Today I reached the 5000 miles point on my Mk4, since purchase in April.
The attached photo shows the fuel consumption over that distance as 68.6 mpg, covering a wide variety of roads. narrow single track to motorways. This figure represents an improvement in consumption of around 25%, as compared with my previous Mk3 Jazz, which is probably just as well, given the current cost of fuel.

Do I still like the car? Yes, I still think it is the best Jazz yet and just a very nice place to be.

My only real concern, like so many others on this forum, are the so called safety gizmos and in particular the RDMS. Concerns expressed by other members, range for annoying to downright dangerous, I've mentioned before about the 'Hand of God' intervening on narrow country lanes and attempting to steer me into the path of an oncoming car. In my view the feature is totally unsuited to the vast majority of UK roads.

Do Honda actually read these posts. They really need to issue a software update, whereby the RDMS can be permanently disabled, at the discretion of the driver, much like LKAS. Having to disable it at every start-up is a real PITA.

Honda, please do something about it !!!!

Agree with RDMS, needs to be choice at start up.

[Kenneve]

Last night, I did my first trip out in the Mk4 in snowy conditions and I have say I was NOT impressed.
I've been driving for over 60 years years and it is the first time, I've felt that I was not in proper control of the vehicle.

It was dark, snowing, with wet snow lying on the roads and it seemed that I had no way of knowing what the driving wheels were doing, ie driving or just spinning, other than loss of steering.
Even in ECO mode it seemed to be very easy to spin the wheels, power seemed to be, 'all or nothing'.
With previous cars the rising engine speed, has given some indication of wheelslip, even with the CVT, but with EV power there is of course no sound.

The vehicle is shod with Yokoharma Bluearth tyres which are new me, having had Dunlop 2020 on all my previous Jazz cars. Don't know how they compare in Winter conditions?

I was going over to my daughters house roughly 10 miles away over country lanes, however after a mile or so, I abandoned the trip, returned home and put my feet up!

[culzean]

It was dark, snowing, with wet snow lying on the roads and it seemed that I had no way of knowing what the driving wheels were doing, ie driving or just spinning, other than loss of steering.
Even in ECO mode it seemed to be very easy to spin the wheels, power seemed to be, 'all or nothing'.
With previous cars the rising engine speed, has given some indication of wheelslip, even with the CVT, but with EV power there is of course no sound.

A 'disconnected driving experience' then..... can't wait to see how Autonomous vehicles deal with snow ( if ever they have to    )...

Personally I found the CVT on my wifes Fiat very good on snow, with very smooth takeoff ( magnetic powder clutch ) and with a light throttle meaning the CVT was looking for highest gear.

[culzean]

Agree with RDMS, needs to be choice at start up.

Get used to the idea that these gizmos are going to become harder and harder to disable,  and then choice will be removed altogether.... it is the way the world is heading,  and with auto updates you will suddenly find ( like windows ) stuff behaving like you do not want it too, and things you have uninstalled ( like Edge ) coming back every update...

[Lord Voltermore]

Mostly down to tyres I think.
 Compare the blue earth to the Goodyear vector 4 seasons I have on my Yaris.     Its  not just the obvious  difference in major tread.  Its also due to the very fine sipes (grooves)  which allows the tread blocks to 'squirm' a bit more and throw out  imbedded snow  .      And to be fair to Honda I doubt any of the Eco  summer tyres fitted to most other cars these days will perform much better in snow. And those cars will be  polishing the snow up into ice. 
 
Normal summer tyres had a much more aggressive tread pattern  in the not too distant past.

I know which car  I will be using in snow. 

[culzean]

The sipes are actually meant to trap snow ( like snow socks do ), because snow sticks to snow better than anything ( snowball anyone ) - the reason heavily siped tyres have worse braking at higher temps on dry roads is the sipes allow the tread to squirm around and lose grip...

[embee]

Interesting comments on driveability of a vehicle in EV mode in snow. I can well imagine the difficulty for the driver when you're getting little or no sensory feedback from the power unit. When I got my new-to-me 10yr old Yaris with drive-by-wire the first thing I noticed was the lack of "connection" to the throttle, it seemed totally remote (which of course it is). I have got used to it now, but there is no feel at all. My Jazz on the other hand feels right, but it is a couple of generations on from the Yaris and these systems get improved.

I wonder how extensive the testing is for this? When working for car manufacturers (years ago now) we did a lot of cold climate testing mainly in Canada, down to -35C fairly regularly. In powertrain we were primarily concerned with starting and cold driveabilty of the engine, but all aspects got thoroughly tested (heating, suspension, transmissions etc).

Just to second the comments by LV, you really cannot beat a decent cold weather tyre, those summer tyres with unbroken peripheral bands are hopeless in snow. I've used Goodyear winter tyres in the past and they are superb, my choice today would be cross-climate versions of a well reviewed brand, several good models to choose from.

[embee]

Ref the tread of winter type tyres, I believe the principle is a combination of the two effects described by others above.  The big grooves (sipes) allowing snow to get fully into them and using the strength of that to grip onto the lying snow, but the small sipes and the compound allow the flexibility of the blocks so the trapped snow can get thrown out again and renewed regularly such that it doesn't polish and become icy where it meets the road. I may be wrong.

[Expatman]

Interesting comments on driveability of a vehicle in EV mode in snow. I can well imagine the difficulty for the driver when you're getting little or no sensory feedback from the power unit. When I got my new-to-me 10yr old Yaris with drive-by-wire the first thing I noticed was the lack of "connection" to the throttle, it seemed totally remote (which of course it is). I have got used to it now, but there is no feel at all. My Jazz on the other hand feels right, but it is a couple of generations on from the Yaris and these systems get improved.

I wonder how extensive the testing is for this? When working for car manufacturers (years ago now) we did a lot of cold climate testing mainly in Canada, down to -35C fairly regularly. In powertrain we were primarily concerned with starting and cold driveabilty of the engine, but all aspects got thoroughly tested (heating, suspension, transmissions etc).

Just to second the comments by LV, you really cannot beat a decent cold weather tyre, those summer tyres with unbroken peripheral bands are hopeless in snow. I've used Goodyear winter tyres in the past and they are superb, my choice today would be cross-climate versions of a well reviewed brand, several good models to choose from.

It’s not just in snow, summer tyres start to lose their grip at temperatures below 7C. All Season and winter tyres are made from a different compound that retains grip at low temperatures.

[culzean]

There are two sets of wear bars in winter tyres, some wear bars at 4mm have a snowflake on them,  and the normal ones sit below them at 1.6mm or whatever.


'These are not just tyres, they are M&S tyres'   

You need 'drive by wire' throttle to break the mechanical link between accelerator pedal and engine speed if any of the modern ( and not so modern ) stuff like traction control, vehicle stability assist etc are going to work,  this allows the ECU to reduce engine power if tyres are slipping.

[Jazzik]

Mostly down to tyres I think.

For many years I switched from summer to winter tires (and vice versa) twice a year. I really wanted to get rid of that hassle and realizing on which tire the Jazz comes standard, I delved into possible all-season options. I found that even in the not-so-common tire size of the EX, there were few but still (very) good options.
Arranged with the dealer when ordering the Jazz that the car would be delivered on all-season tires (Vredestein Quatrac).
So far very satisfied, also this morning for the first time in the snow. The tires performed quite well in the snow! 

[sportse]

At least on the Jazz we have the option to turn off traction control.

On my previous Auris hybrid there was no off switch - car started to slip on snow & it cut the power, so you weren’t moving anywhere at all!

[Lord Voltermore]

I can hear if its snowed in the night. Cars on summer tyres simply cant get up the really quite gentle hill outside. Especially powerful rear wheel drive ones.  They turn the road into an 'ice rink.  In the past I might have chucked a bit of rock salt on it   from the nearby council grit bin .But now I think," Maybe its better you go no further on those Hockey puck tyres .You're safer in Town. "

In countries where winter tyres are normal snow  tends to get broken up and flung off (by whatever means  ) leaving a rough surface with surprisingly good grip.

Just been for a walk , saw very few cars with tyres even remotely suitable for snow. Even 4x4's

[Kenneve]

I hear what you say about tyres, but at only 5 months old, I'm stuck with them, probably going to cost the best part of £600 to change them.
Best thing I can do, is stay at home on such days and put my feet up (one of the benefits of retirement!)

[Expatman]

It's not just rear wheel drive vehicles, big 4x4's with summer tyres are deadly on snow. They may (with a bit of luck) get going but stopping on those tyres is a lot more difficult - slip sliding right into the kerb or ditch! The drivers seem so surprised - " but it's 4 wheel drive" - as one lady said to me on a hill near Harrogate. My 2 wheel front drive car with All Season tyres had no problems at all. Did give her a lift to a garage to get help.