Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Neil Ives on September 11, 2021, 10:05:30 AM
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... That's why I qualified why I hadn't indicated, no one there to see it. I reckon I'm very observant when driving and if there is no one else around, including no pedestrians at junctions, I don't.
Please signal, always.
Vehicles not signalling drives me crazy. Trouble is, if drivers do not signal sometimes, they tend to stop signalling altogether. When I'm a pedestrian I have to take my life in my hands when crossing a road near a roundabout exit.
The driver can never be really sure whether someone else needs to know their intention. For instance, a car obscured by foliage is just about to exit a house drive. A pedestrian needs to know if it's safe to push their childs buggy across the road.
I was taught to always signal my intentions; I don't understand why drivers are now told to not bother to signal if it appears to be safe.
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I own a classic motorcycle that doesn't have indicators. When riding the motorbike I use hand signals, (yes, they are still in the UK Highway Code). If I can manage to control my motorcycle while sticking my hand out in the fresh air, I reckon drivers should be able to tweak that little plastic lever beside the steering wheel.
Before I retired I rode my bicycle to work; I needed to use hand signals to carry out right turns.
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My previous car was a BMW. When I bought it I made sure it was one of the rare ones that had the indicator pack fitted.
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It is annoying. At the end of the day it’s just laziness and sheer contempt of other drivers and pedestrians. Not signalling when leaving a roundabout is just stupid.
At least you modified your BMW ;D it’s a shame it isn’t compulsory!
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I always indicate when others are around, including pedestrians as they need to know if you're turning into a side road they want to cross.
My previous comment concerned changing lanes, say a parked vehicle, or into another road when I'm on my own, nobody else around. Who am I telling ?
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I always indicate when others are around, including pedestrians as they need to know if you're turning into a side road they want to cross.
My previous comment concerned changing lanes, say a parked vehicle, or into another road when I'm on my own, nobody else around. Who am I telling ?
With me, it's habit.
You cannot guarantee that no one needs to know your intention.
Where's the hardship?
And of course the cars lane assist system needs you to indicate before you cross a lane marking
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When I did my IAM Advanced Driving Test, the advice was that you should signal when it would benefit another road user. The point was, of course, that you needed to be observant about other road users. As soon as anyone starts doing things by rote (eg "I always signal"), then that's habit rather than observing and responding to the situation around you.
That advice does conflict with modern lane keeping systems which require a signal when changing lanes even if one isn't necessary.
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Exactly what my IAM tutor told me in 1983.
That short series of assessments and advice by the tutor prior to a successful test was an eye opener. So many tricks of the trade to get to your destination safely and with minimum hassle.
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When I did my IAM Advanced Driving Test, the advice was that you should signal when it would benefit another road user.
But that's rubbish. What about pedestrians and other road users who we may not have yet seen?
The IAM advice would allow the driver to leave a roundabout without signalling if no one was following. Flippin stupid IMO. :P
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If anyone wants to indicate at every junction or lane change, etc, then that is their choice, they are not wrong and should not be criticised.
On the above about roundabouts, it's not only following vehicles. If I see any vehicles either in front, behind, or any pedestrians who may need to know my intended roundabout exit then I will always indicate.
For me though, if I don't see any other vehicles at any of the roundabout entry or exit points or pedestrians then I don't indicate, no point, no one to tell.
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When I did my IAM Advanced Driving Test, the advice was that you should signal when it would benefit another road user.
But that's rubbish. What about pedestrians and other road users who we may not have yet seen?
The IAM advice would allow the driver to leave a roundabout without signalling if no one was following. Flippin stupid IMO. :P
You are of course entitled to your opinion. But you will be contradicting the position of the IAM and the source of its advice, ie very skilled and experienced police drivers. This is a useful piece of explanation:
https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/associate-s-guide/56-signalling
As for “... other road users who we may not have yet seen...”, I think you’ve missed the point. The observant and skilled driver will have seen and assessed hazards, and if there is any doubt (eg view obscured) will be acting accordingly.
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That article works for my argument as well; it acknowledges that you may not see someone who needs to know your intention.
The article refers to other road users; not pedestrians.
What is the problem with letting the world know what my intentions are before I carry out my manoeuvre?
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The article refers to other road users; not pedestrians.
Pedestrians are road users too!
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As I said before; if we tell drivers that they don't always need to signal, they tend to stop signalling alltogether and that gives rise to the situation today in the UK where many drivers do not signal at all!
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The article refers to other road users; not pedestrians.
Pedestrians ARE road users.
What is the problem with letting the world know what my intentions are before I carry out my manoeuvre?
As has been said a couple of times now, signalling every time suggests it is happening by habit rather than by being aware of what's going on around you. It's not the unnecessary signalling that's the problem, it's what that says about attention to the road.
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I'm not willing accept the suggestion that I'm a driver that signals from lazy habit. I am a very careful and observant driver. I'm good at anticipating what other drivers might do; I also ride a 70 year old motorcycle; anticipation is vital when riding on two wheels with drum brakes. I make good progress when appropriate both on the bike and in the car.
I've been considering taking the IAM test. I would find it hard to follow their advice about signalling. I might have to bite my tongue a bit.
I was horrified when a good friend once told me he couldn't remember any detail of his journey while he was driving.
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It's not the unnecessary signalling that's the problem, it's what that says about attention to the road.
That is the absolute point - very precisely expressed.
But then "You can't teach old dogs new tricks" or can you? ;)
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... But then "You can't teach old dogs new tricks" or can you? ;)
We are back to dogs are we?
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... But then "You can't teach old dogs new tricks" or can you? ;)
We are back to dogs are we?
:D
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I think, with respect, what we are trying to say, is.
If you are the only vehicle, pedestrian, cycle, whatever, on the road, then who will see/benefit from signalling ?
The replies keep coming back along the lines of - what about other people - what other people if you're the only one around ?
We each have our own strategy and both must be respected.
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I'm not willing accept the suggestion that I'm a driver that signals from lazy habit.
I don't think anyone has suggested that you do, but there will be drivers out there who will learn to do exactly that.
Of course, there are also plenty of drivers that do not signal at all, unless it is for their own benefit, but I doubt that is because they have been told that they don't always need to.
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I'm not willing accept the suggestion that I'm a driver that signals from lazy habit.
Well, with all due respect, you did say yourself:
With me, it's habit.
And a "habit", according to a typical dictionary, is "something that you do often and regularly, sometimes without knowing that you are doing it" (eg https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/habit). Saying that it's a habit suggests it's being done automatically without proper consideration of the circumstances, which was what sparked my urge to clarify. If that's not actually the case, then perhaps we're on the same page after all.
BTW ...
I've been considering taking the IAM test.
... I'd thoroughly recommend it. You do have to approach it with an open mind because you will be criticised over things you might have been doing for years, but it does bring a new perspective.
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I'm not willing accept the suggestion that I'm a driver that signals from lazy habit.
Well, with all due respect, you did say yourself:
With me, it's habit.
And a "habit", according to a typical dictionary, is "something that you do often and regularly, sometimes without knowing that you are doing it" (eg https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/habit). Saying that it's a habit suggests it's being done automatically without proper consideration of the circumstances, which was what sparked my urge to clarify. If that's not actually the case, then perhaps we're on the same page after all.
BTW ...
I've been considering taking the IAM test.
... I'd thoroughly recommend it. You do have to approach it with an open mind because you will be criticised over things you might have been doing for years, but it does bring a new perspective.
+1
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I was taught to always signal; that was the rule in 1967; hence my 'habit' of signalling. I've found no good reason to stop indicating my intentions on the road since then.
Some of my other driving 'habits' are: Not tailgating. Not braking at the last moment when I have plenty of time to take my foot of the gas peddle and let the vehicle speed fall off. (I love easing off while approaching a red traffic light and it turning green as I approach). Moving into the 'slow' lane on motorways when it's clear even when I'm traveling fast. Driving in such a way that my passengers are not made uncomfortable. Driving habits are not a bad thing.
Anyway, today, I was driving around a large roundabout with lots of greenery on it that blocked my view of the road ahead. As usual, I turned the left winker on to indicate I was leaving at the next exit, (no one was behind me). As I approached my exit the view forward cleared and I could see a string of cars approaching the roundabout from the opposite direction. My turn signal, my road position and my speed allowed the front car to decide if it was safe for him to enter the roundabout.
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I get annoyed as a pedestrian by the number of drivers which do not signal their intention and I signal when leaving a roundabout as a matter of habit and am usually to busy concentrating on the road and other vehicles to be specifically looking out for pedestrians who may be waiting to cross the road.
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I get annoyed as a pedestrian by the number of drivers which do not signal their intention and I signal when leaving a roundabout as a matter of habit and am usually to busy concentrating on the road and other vehicles to be specifically looking out for pedestrians who may be waiting to cross the road.
My thoughts exactly.
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About 20 years ago I was in the fortunate/unfortunate position of doing an emergency services driving course, in general I learned a lot and became a better driver (hopefully) but I found it frustrating being told not to signal if I couldn't see someone who would benefit. Usually this ended with me spotting another road user too late whilst in the middle of a manoeuvre when it would have been easier to signal on my approach. Daft, but that's the system, so I 'bit my tongue' and got a pass.
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Don't start me on IAM dogma (especially for motorbikes, though miraculously this has changed in recent years more in line with what I've always thought........... but I was always wrong, apparently.)
I generally always signal for the reasons others give, spotting another road user when you are half way though a turn is a bit late to start signalling. It doesn't cost anything to signal, so why not just do it then you can concentrate on your observations while doing the driving manoeuvre. I can't see a downside for signalling.
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... I can't see a downside for signalling.
Indeed
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I take signals from other vehicles with a pinch of salt unless they are showing distinct signs of carrying out what their indicators are saying, been caught a few times, now very cynical and only signal myself if someone can benefit from it. I did find that when I signalled right while actually going around an island a lot more people cut onto island in front of me, and not too far in front of me, so stopped doing it, still signal left when leaving but only if vehicle waiting at exit or if a vehicle following me, but signalling on an empty island - naahhh..
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I don't take any notice of others indicators, 40 years ago I was nearly totalled by a beer wagon that was indicating a left turn but in fact went straight on, I almost pulled out in front of the "professional" driver.
John
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I don't take any notice of others indicators, 40 years ago I was nearly totalled by a beer wagon that was indicating a left turn but in fact went straight on, I almost pulled out in front of the "professional" driver.
John
Do you signal?
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On the last few motorbikes I have owned I have augmented the pathetic dim green direction indicator repeaters on instrument display with a pair of bright blue LED fitted in line of sight on top of binnacle ( they are visible in peripheral vision even in sunlight ). It is very easy to forget to cancel direction indicators on a motorbike ( they do not self cancel ) and the results can be fatal as people pull out on you... As far as my safety goes it is one of the best things I have done, along with a pair of 10watt LED spotlights and an auxiliary flashing LED brake light.
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It is very easy to forget to cancel direction indicators on a motorbike ( they do not self cancel ) and the results can be fatal as people pull out on you...
I witnessed an accident caused by a lad forgetting to cancel his left motorbike winker and an imbecile driver pulling out in front of the motorbike. When I ride my old BSA with other bikers there will always be someone who forgets to turn off their indicators.
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Is that why you use hand signals? ;)
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Is that why you use hand signals? ;)
It is hard to forget your arm is sticking out
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Is that why you use hand signals? ;)
What he, (culzean) said.
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I don't take any notice of others indicators, 40 years ago I was nearly totalled by a beer wagon that was indicating a left turn but in fact went straight on, I almost pulled out in front of the "professional" driver.
John
Do you signal?
Only with rude gestures. ;D
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..It is very easy to forget to cancel direction indicators on a motorbike ( they do not self cancel ) ....
Agree, and that is where "habit" can come in handy. I find myself pushing the indi cancel button quite regularly .......... just in case.
I have done the same indi repeater at the top of the screen, nearly in eye-line, as Culzean describes on a couple of my bikes where the dash lights are difficult to see in bright sunlight. Thankfully more modern bikes seem to have got this right at last, I have 2 relatively new bikes which have very easily seen indi warning lights on the dash display, my older bikes are pretty poor in this respect.
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Another of my driving habits is glancing over my shoulder before changing lanes. On a motorcycle that can be a lifesaver. Yes, I know the Jazz has Blind Spot warning but habits die hard.