Living with a Jazz Crosstar

[jazzaro]

Seems that above 80% and below 20 or 30% are 'no-go' areas on Li-Ion batteries as both over and undercharge will damage battery ( as does fast charging ),  as the battery gets older / used more / fast charged too often and loses capacity then the 30 and 80% limits get relaxed to maintain range - so when battery is described as 30KW/h etc. is that the full 100% capacity or the 30 to 80% capacity ?

Surely the capacity is intended as 100%.
To be honest my question has very low importance for hybrids as the Jazz, as the charge is handled by the system and not by the user.

[Mellorshark]

I must understand if there is a real extra travel or if shocks and springs are only softer...

According to the Honda website ground clearance with driver is 136 (EX) and 152 (Crosstar). Clearance at full load is 107 and 144.2 respectively.

[Jocko]

According to the Honda website ground clearance with driver is 136 (EX) and 152 (Crosstar). Clearance at full load is 107 and 144.2 respectively.

I would say, going by these numbers, the Crosstar has a stiffer suspension. Someone correct me if my thinking is wrong.

[jazzaro]

According to the Honda website ground clearance with driver is 136 (EX) and 152 (Crosstar). Clearance at full load is 107 and 144.2 respectively.

Yes, millimeters, so the difference is 16mm. Considering that tire size is different (185/60 R16 fro Crosstar, 185/60 R15 for Elegance and Confort), 12 of this 16mm are given by the bigger diameter of the Crosstar wheel (9 of 16 if Crosstar is compared with Executive). Probably shocks and springs are different from the GK3, but I'm not sure they are different between standard and crosstar.
Autoevolucion talks about 127mm for the old GK3 and GK5.
Ah, after our Gkx.. which is the framecode of the new Jazz?  JHM.......?

[jazzaro]

Another question: how  long does the coolant take to reach 110F° after startup and normal driving?
I say 110F because this is the temperature when the blue light goes off in the dash, in Jazz mk3 and  petrol Hrv.

[John Ratsey]

It would be nice to know the rpm at stable 62mph with the clutch engaged, just to compare the gear ratio with the 6th of the old jazz.

I'll try to check this on Friday when I've got a motorway trip planned. I suspect the answer will be around 2000 rpm as that appears to be when the engine is most efficient but will depend on whether the Atkinson cycle engine can provide enough power at that rpm to keep the vehicle moving.

Almost certainly capacity is gross before and adjustments...

I would hope that the battery rating leaves room for long-term deterioration and the very frequent partial charge / discharge cycling will eventually cause wear. The battery pack is a big lump for 1kWh (but it will need a very effective cooling system). Honda could have problems if the mpg drops after a few years due to the battery losing capacity.

Ah, after our Gkx.. which is the framecode of the new Jazz?  JHM.......?

My Crosstar is JHM GR6 (do you want more letters / numbers?)

Another question: how  long does the coolant take to reach 110F° after startup and normal driving?
I say 110F because this is the temperature when the blue light goes off in the dash, in Jazz mk3 and  petrol Hrv.

I'll try to remember to check this aspect although the time needed for engine warm-up is very weather-dependent.

Also, my dealer says the vehicle has an electric motor to power the air-conditioning when the engine is not running. However, I didn't get clarification whether it's directly driven by the engine when it is running. I looked under the bonnet (very congested) and the compressor is in the usual place (left end when looking under the bonnet). Something else I noticed is the lack of an undertray. My dealer says that Honda has left these off the new models.

[jazzaro]

It would be nice to know the rpm at stable 62mph with the clutch engaged, just to compare the gear ratio with the 6th of the old jazz.

I'll try to check this on Friday when I've got a motorway trip planned. I suspect the answer will be around 2000 rpm as that appears to be when the engine is most efficient but will depend on whether the Atkinson cycle engine can provide enough power at that rpm to keep the vehicle moving.

The 1.3 16v Gk3 runs at 2900 rpm at 62mph.

My Crosstar is JHM GR6 (do you want more letters / numbers?)

Thanks. So after the GD, the GE, the GK we have the GR...

I'll try to remember to check this aspect although the time needed for engine warm-up is very weather-dependent.

Also, my dealer says the vehicle has an electric motor to power the air-conditioning when the engine is not running. However, I didn't get clarification whether it's directly driven by the engine when it is running. I looked under the bonnet (very congested) and the compressor is in the usual place (left end when looking under the bonnet). Something else I noticed is the lack of an undertray. My dealer says that Honda has left these off the new models.

The warmup time depends by the starting temperature and by the power asked from the petrol engine.
In full hybrid vehicles as Toy HSD, Honda CRV and Jazz the compressor is not directly driven by the petrol engine, there is a big electric motor (about 3-4 hp) feeded by the high voltage circuit. You will find it following the orange cable.

[John Ratsey]

Some findings from today's trip which was mainly motorway.

1. The direct drive gearing on the Crosstar is 2360 rpm (give or take a few rpm) at 62 mph (GPS speed - about 63.5 on the speedometer). The normal Jazz may be slightly different due to the different wheels / tyres.
2. By watching the road speed and the engine speed I've concluded that direct drive is used from around 42 mph (=1600 rpm) upwards provided that the power demand is within the engine's capability at the rpm corresponding to the road speed. This means gentle acceleration or modest hills although climbing the hill to junction 18 on the eastbound M4 in the low 60's was done at around 2800 rpm (ie not direct drive).
3. If the battery is at less than 60% charge then some power is used to top up the battery when running in direct drive. Only if the battery is at 60% or more charge does the animated power flow graphic clearly show it's in direct drive as there's no power flow to/from the battery.
4. Easing off slightly on the accelerator with the battery at 60% charge usually results in the vehicle going into EV mode until either the battery is down to 30% or there's significant pushing on the accelerator pedal.
5. The engine noise at 70 mph (about 2660 rpm in direct drive) is minimal although a firm push on the accelerator will get the engine into the noisy range (but still not as noisy as my HR-V which suggests better soundproofing).
6. I was unable to get any useful info on the engine warm-up time. The Torque app was unable to read the coolant temperature and I don't think the blue cold engine warning light came on at the journey start as it was a warm day.
7. As I expected based on the WLTP results, the mpg dropped noticeably once the speed was over about 60 mpg. I reckon about 65 mpg in the low 60's although that was into a 10 mph headwind.
8. The auto headlights didn't come on when I was stopped in traffic while under the motorway so Honda seem to have fixed that problem (I wait to see whether they come on at a sensible level of darkness).

The bad news is that trip confirmed what I felt on the previous 2 hour journey: The seats are worse than my HR-V. I commented on this to my front seat passenger who had reached the same conclusion. I'm going to be looking for a thin firm cushion to see if that fixes the comfort issue.

On a different subject, I put one of these LED bulbs https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/501-Led-Cob-White-T10-Xenon-Bulbs-W5w-Side-Light-Canbus-Error-Free-Wedge-194-168/382894921689 in the boot and it's a lot brighter than the original bulb. Given that the price is for 10, it makes Honda's £50 in the vehicle configurator accessories section (under Audio and Electronics) look a bit greedy. I've also put LED bulbs in the reversing lights but won't pass comment on their effectiveness until I need to reverse in darkness. I think the only remaining non-LED bulbs are the rear turn indicators. I'm not planning to change those due to (i) it's not obvious how to get to them and (ii) relatively expensive special bulbs are needed to avoid the flash rate going beserk.

[Jocko]

I was unable to get any useful info on the engine warm-up time. The Torque app was unable to read the coolant temperature and I don't think the blue cold engine warning light came on at the journey start as it was a warm day.

I take it the configuration for the Blue light is different on the new Hybrid. Probably so that you are not driving around on EV or EV+ with the blue light on, waiting on the engine warming up. With the earlier Jazz, the light goes out at 45°C so unless the radiator was above that temperature an early Jazz would show the light. With the Crosstar that could take a long time to achieve and the light would become annoying to some drivers.

[robark]

“The bad news is that trip confirmed what I felt on the previous 2 hour journey: The seats are worse than my HR-V. I commented on this to my front seat passenger who had reached the same conclusion. I'm going to be looking for a thin firm cushion to see if that fixes the comfort issue”.


I am seriously considering getting the new EX Jazz and am interested in seat comfort. What concerned you about the seats? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Honda had increased the cushion thickness on the new model. Any information would be useful - thanks.

[jazzaro]

Some findings from today's trip which was mainly motorway.

1. The direct drive gearing on the Crosstar is 2360 rpm (give or take a few rpm) at 62 mph (GPS speed - about 63.5 on the speedometer). The normal Jazz may be slightly different due to the different wheels / tyres.

......

On a different subject, I put one of these LED bulbs https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/501-Led-Cob-White-T10-Xenon-Bulbs-W5w-Side-Light-Canbus-Error-Free-Wedge-194-168/382894921689 in the boot and it's a lot brighter than the original bulb. Given that the price is for 10, it makes Honda's £50 in the vehicle configurator accessories section (under Audio and Electronics) look a bit greedy. I've also put LED bulbs in the reversing lights but won't pass comment on their effectiveness until I need to reverse in darkness. I think the only remaining non-LED bulbs are the rear turn indicators. I'm not planning to change those due to (i) it's not obvious how to get to them and (ii) relatively expensive special bulbs are needed to avoid the flash rate going beserk.

A lot of interesting infos, thank you.
About revs at 62mph, the non-Crosstar will rev 4% faster at same speed, so about 2450rpm; the ratio is much longer than the 6th gear of my 1.3 16v EX.
About led bulbs..  the GR Jazz has all leds but reversing lights (W16W) and rear turn (WY21W). Since there are no WY21W with embedded canbus protection, you will have to install a resistor kit to use this bulbs.
I also bought some leds for reversing lights, now I have some Osrams and they work fine, better than standard bulbs. The first led bulb I put has not been reliable, it starded blinking afters some months.
About the boot bulb, first I put a led bulb, then when it broke I put this https://www.amazon.it/Bagagliaio-Baule-Honda-Accord-Insight/dp/B01EYP2DDI , now I have more light and reliability.

With the earlier Jazz, the light goes out at 45°C so unless the radiator was above that temperature an early Jazz would show the light. With the Crosstar that could take a long time to achieve and the light would become annoying to some drivers.

Newer Jazz have the T° sensor on the engine, before the thermostatic valve.
If Jazz hybrid "works" as Toyota hybrids, the petrol engine tries to stay always over 45°C, it's safer for mechanics.

[Mellorshark]

According to the manual, there isn't a blue light. Just white and red for over temperature.

Re seats: we haven't found a problem with the seats in the EX.

[jazzaro]

Re seats: we haven't found a problem with the seats in the EX.

Same for us, also after 8 hours of highway.
The press release writes that seats have been improved.

[culzean]

According to the manual, there isn't a blue light. Just white and red for over temperature.

Re seats: we haven't found a problem with the seats in the EX.

Whatever happened to proper temperature gauges where you can actually see whats happening,  even my motorbike has one........

[jazzaro]

Whatever happened to proper temperature gauges where you can actually see whats happening,  even my motorbike has one........

If you want a proper temperature gauge you have to run back to cars without canbus network, more than twenty years ago..