Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.

[richardfrost]

Whilst not wanting to appear to be in Culzean's camp, wind power is not proving to be much use in Texas right now...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56083385

[culzean]

Whilst not wanting to appear to be in Culzean's camp, wind power is not proving to be much use in Texas right now...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56083385

That is what happens when we rely on power at the whim of nature. California seen as mecca for renewables but when Sun goes down 80% of electricity supplied by fossil fuels... My camp is the one that looks at gridwatch and sees when renewables almost completely disappear for days on end.

[ColinB]

Whilst not wanting to appear to be in Culzean's camp, wind power is not proving to be much use in Texas right now...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56083385

The Texas weather is an interesting case for the climate-change deniers to consider. From a report in Tortoise (https://www.tortoisemedia.com/read/our-planet/) :

“It’s freezing in Texas and snowing like crazy in Moscow. You could just write this off as winter, but it’s more interesting than that. Some of the coldest temperatures in Texas in 30 years are a result of what the US National Weather Service is calling an “Arctic outbreak”. The usual low pressure systems that keep the northern hemisphere’s coldest winter air over the North Pole are breaking down because of the warming Arctic, and letting more cold air than usual drift south. Meanwhile more snow fell on Moscow than in any single day since 1973. The dump was 1cm shy of the city’s 24-hour record – but not surprising. As Russia’s winters warm, snow comes later and leaves earlier, but right in the middle blizzards will be bigger because warmer air holds more moisture.”

[John Ratsey]

Whilst not wanting to appear to be in Culzean's camp, wind power is not proving to be much use in Texas right now...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-56083385

However, a lot of the problem is with the thermal plants https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/17/texas-power-blackout-weather-cold and not enough gas coming through the pipes.

[sparky Paul]

However, a lot of the problem is with the thermal plants https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/17/texas-power-blackout-weather-cold and not enough gas coming through the pipes.

Another problem with Texas is that it's a very good example of the effect of 'small government' and isolation from your neighbours. Texas has it's own grid - cut off from other states so that it can avoid Federal regulation.

Fossil fuel interests spreading disinformation, who'd have thunk it

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/texas-frozen-wind-turbines-john-cornyn-b1803193.html

[culzean]

The problem with renewables is officially called intermittency, but unreliability is another, better word.  Building stuff like nuclear to supply a decent base load is one answer, but the more renewables you have on your grid the more you need backup from quick reaction gas turbine generators, so then you need more gas supplies.  Banning domestic gas heating puts even more load onto the electricity grid, meaning the intermittent nature of renewables becomes an even greater problem. UK demand never normally gets above 45GW,  so the demand in Texas for 70GW was more than the whole of UK.  One major part of problem was that wind turbines froze up, solar panels covered in snow and ice, ( and only work in daylight anyway ). Grid storage solution to such massive demands is a long way off.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/15/us/power-outages-texas-monday/index.html

[sparky Paul]

One major part of problem was that wind turbines froze up, solar panels covered in snow and ice, ( and only work in daylight anyway ).

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/texas-frozen-wind-turbines-john-cornyn-b1803193.html

It’s also important to note that this severe cold snap across Texas has frozen instruments at natural gas, coal, and nuclear facilities.

Along with the limited supplies of gas on hand, the situation has caused a lack of power supply, leading to some 30 to 35 gigawatts of total power outages across the state — almost all from non-functioning gas power plants. Sure, some wind turbines and solar facilities have also been affected, but all through Monday while gas plants were freezing, wind turbines and solar panels actually exceeded expected power delivery.

[Jocko]

Seemingly, Greenland has a very successful wind turbine generation system.

[John Ratsey]

More discussion about the Texas problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56085733.

I have to wonder to what extent iced-up blades are cause or effect. I would expect moving blades to be more effective at shedding sleet /snow before it becomes a problem but if the turbines stop because the grid has collapsed then they will be more vulnerable to icing up. It's also possible that turbines installed in colder climates are better winter-proofed (eg teflon-coated blades or built-in heaters?).

[culzean]

Seemingly, Greenland has a very successful wind turbine generation system.

Greenland has a very low humidity and plenty of wind.

More discussion about the Texas problem https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56085733.

I have to wonder to what extent iced-up blades are cause or effect. I would expect moving blades to be more effective at shedding sleet /snow before it becomes a problem but if the turbines stop because the grid has collapsed then they will be more vulnerable to icing up. It's also possible that turbines installed in colder climates are better winter-proofed (eg teflon-coated blades or built-in heaters?).

In order to generate power wind turbines need an outside source of electrical power, and aircraft wings and propellers ice up when flying and they are moving pretty quick.

[Westy36]

A bit of a generalisation, but if the average citizen of the states drove around in a Honda Fit as apposed to Dodge Rams or Ford F150, then they would reduce emissions massively. That, and stop all the internal flights.

[culzean]

Here is an article ( PDF attached ) showing the dirty side of renewables,  reminds me a bit of the governments who backed Diesel to be the saviour of the world, but they were only looking at CO2,  not the many ways in which diesel is actually dirtier than petrol.

[madasafish]

That article states:

"The UK is already doing well on renewables. Latest figures show that in 2020 they
collectively generated around 45 per cent of our electricity, up nine per cent on 2019. "

Garbage: summer only.


And then goes on about the need for rare elements for super strong magnets needed for wind power:
"As these rare elements are distributed in tiny quantities, vast piles of ore need to be
dug up, processed and refined to produce minuscule amounts. For a single kilo of
gallium – used in energy-efficient light bulbs – 50 tonnes of rock needs to be
excavated, according to Pitron."

I take it from that the writer knows nothing about mining in the real world...eg gold
"GOLD: One ounce, or roughly 30 grams/tonne is high-grade and can be expected to move markets in most cases. Several ounces of gold per tonne is considered to be high-grade for underground mining, although 5 grams gold/tonne is usually economically viable."
https://tinyurl.com/ybmek3sz

(30hms per tonne requires 33 tonnes of rock to get 1kg gold..

His article is just full of facts presented as "bad" when other minerals are just as difficult to extravt

[sparky Paul]

As with all these articles, you first have to examine the origin. I'm afraid fossil fuel interests are not going to release their stranglehold on the world without a fight.

[culzean]

(30hms per tonne requires 33 tonnes of rock to get 1kg gold..

His article is just full of facts presented as "bad" when other minerals are just as difficult to extract

Gold is not needed in the quantities that these rare earth metals are, and gold is easy to recycle, which the rare earth metals are not. As it said, trashing the environment to save the planet LOL

As with all these articles, you first have to examine the origin. I'm afraid fossil fuel interests are not going to release their stranglehold on the world without a fight.

Don't think the author of that paper has any particular axe to grind,  he a is a technology correspondent.