Electric cars

[Kremmen]

....... as confirmed with that reported 3 hour queue at South Mimms a few days ago.

....... whilst petrol/diesel vehicles come and go in minutes.

[madasafish]

This is all par for a Government which thinks that announcing a policy and its aims is all that is required to make it happen.

The phrase "joined up thinking" is not employed in use.

[Jazzdriver]

I read of a small development of houses.  All the houses came with chargers for cars.  One purchaser was disappointed to find that the developer had downgraded the chargers, from the specified level, because the utility company said that it could not cope if several houses had electric cars.

[Kremmen]

Not that long ago, SSEN told Ealing, Hounslow and Hillingdon councils not to approve any more new build houses because they had no more capacity to connect them to the electricity grid.

A few months later that was reversed but even so it shows how near capacity we are.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/west-london-electricity-shortage-housing-hounslow-ealing-hillingdon-b1031501.html

[madasafish]

The National Grid in 2020 said:
"Our Head of Future Markets, Graeme Cooper, has long championed the adoption of EVs and is confident the grid can support the extra demand for electricity this transition will create.

"There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily,” "
https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars


Of course he was lying.

[ColinB]

Of course he was lying.

Not necessarily. The quoted article seems to be referring to the total amount of generating capacity, and whether that will cope with the projected demand of EV charging; Mr Cooper's comments seem to suggest that's OK (although that may depend on whether the wind is blowing or the sun is shining). The previous comments in this thread are referring to local distribution infrastructure, and clearly that hasn't been designed with large-scale EV charging in mind, so not surprisingly there are going to be problems.

[Kremmen]

What I don't get is that French EDF have said that if they get hit with a windfall tax they will turn off 'their' UK nuclear stations and go away.

Surely if they do that we can take them over and power them up ?

[peteo48]

Absolutely. I can't see any reason why not. Another reason for being as self sufficient as possible in energy including the ownership of critical assets.

[Lincolnshire Rambler]

Hi . I may have missed this topic as it’s 175 pages - but has anyone calculated how many MW of electrical power is needed to power a million golf sized cars doing 12,000 Miiles year? And take an all round yearly average KW/ mile of an EV ? I believe we have 33 million cars and vans on fossil fuels so wondered how the sums stack up for several million EVs replacing some of those eventually..🤨🤨

[Jocko]

I reckon it would take about 33MWh per day to keep your million Golf doing that sort of mileage.

[madasafish]

Absolutely. I can't see any reason why not. Another reason for being as self sufficient as possible in energy including the ownership of critical assets.

There will be proprietary technology - software etc,- licensed by EDF.
The management contract will almost certainly say: no management contract, no proprietary software/hardware.

[John Ratsey]

Hi . I may have missed this topic as it’s 175 pages - but has anyone calculated how many MW of electrical power is needed to power a million golf sized cars doing 12,000 Miiles year? And take an all round yearly average KW/ mile of an EV ? I believe we have 33 million cars and vans on fossil fuels so wondered how the sums stack up for several million EVs replacing some of those eventually.

An efficient EV uses about 1kWh per 4 miles so 12,000 miles = 3,000kWh of electricity per year = 8.2kWh per day. One million of those vehicles = 8.2 GWh per day. If the charging is undertaken between midnight and 6am then there's an extra 1.37GW load on the grid which is easily accommodated https://gridwatch.co.uk/. If there are 10 million EVs being charged then the average charging load is a more significant 13.7GW. However, if 10% of those vehicles are trying to charge at 6pm on a day when the wind isn't blowing then the generating capacity could be overwhelmed. Use of smart chargers and smart tariffs can reduce the risk by making the cost of electricity during peak hours more expensive.The above calculation ignores energy used during charging (perhaps 95% efficiency?).

The other related issue, as already noted, is whether the local distribution network can handle the power and this depends on the rating of the chargers. On average, as per the calculation above, 8.2kWh of charging spread over 6 hours is a modest 1.37kW which is less than half the typical electric kettle. However, if it's a vehicle doing a daily 100 miles commute doing 3.5 miles per kWh then it uses 28.6kWh of electricity or 4.76kW if spread over 6 hours. It's the row of houses all doing that at the same time which may be worrying the distribution network operators who have been, BTW, progressively increasing the daily charge for having an electricity connection.

EVs make most sense for the shorter, usually urban, journeys where the impact of traffic and cold engines adversely affects vehicles with engines. They will therefore have reduced charging needs compared to the average. It will also be better for the planet if the average vehicle annual mileage reduces and the trend towards working from home should help this.

[Kremmen]

Oh dear, glad I bought hybrid :

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11619661/Used-Tesla-values-come-crash-Prices-18k.html

The value of used Tesla electric cars has nosedived by a fifth in the last 12 months as demand for second-hand battery cars appears to have cooled, according to latest industry figures.

Used versions of the popular Tesla Model 3 - the second most-bought new electric car in Britain in 2022 - have crashed in value the most in the last 12 months, with one-year old examples down a massive 21 per cent on average, translating to a financial drop-off of almost £10,000.

Prices for the larger Model S saloon have also gone into freefall, declining by a whopping £18,000 as values slip by a 20.5 per cent.

Experts say the drop in second-hand prices is due to a combination of factors, including greater supply of new examples.

[John Ratsey]

Oh dear, glad I bought hybrid :

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-11619661/Used-Tesla-values-come-crash-Prices-18k.html

There are numerous factors behind the drop in used EV prices including

It means that, for longer journeys, a petrol car will be more cost effective, costing around 17p per mile compared to an EV charged using a public device costing 20p for every mile.

A good hybrid is more likely to cost around 12p/mile at current petrol prices (depending on how / where it is driven).

[ColinB]

If prices have dropped, one contributing factor might be that the supply of used EVs has increased. Maybe more people are having experiences like Times journo Giles Coren, and getting rid of them because they’ve realised that EV ownership is more complicated than they’re prepared to put up with:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-ive-pulled-the-plug-on-my-electric-car-dwgs9l9hl