Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: steveha on April 17, 2018, 03:13:07 PM

Title: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 17, 2018, 03:13:07 PM
I noticed an intermittent, random whirring noise from the engine compartment recently - see attached MP3 (ZIP wrapped). It happens when driving, stationary or with the ignition turned on but the engine not started. Seems to becoming from the back of each headlight. I tweaked the 0-3 headlight adjuster on the dashboard and got a very similar noise. At night, one can see the headlight beam moving in unison.

Anyone had similar?

Thanks

Steve 09 1.4 ES
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 17, 2018, 03:31:15 PM
Welcome Steve. The motors are connected in parallel and are supplied via the ignition switch and the adjuster switch. Nothing else of interest. If the lights are moving together the chances are it is a faulty adjuster potentiometer (it is actually a series of switched resistors). Should be easy enough to remove and replace. It may be possible to spray "Servisol", or the like, into the unit while moving it through its range. If not, a part from a breakers would be my option.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YU4AAOSwEEBaKDfU/s-l225.jpg)
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 17, 2018, 03:44:18 PM
Thanks Jocko - I'm inclined to blame the switch too. A squirt of contact cleaner into the  available cracks may have slightly improved it. Do you know how to remove it?

Thanks

Steve
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 17, 2018, 04:03:16 PM
Probably just prises out. Someone else may know better.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 17, 2018, 05:59:18 PM
After some detective work, discovered that the panel the switch is on is the interior fuse box cover which the owners manual tells me to pull towards me.....deluged it with contact cleaner fluid and we'll see if that fixed it.

If I have to replace the switch, access to it looks really easy  :)
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on April 17, 2018, 07:28:37 PM
I get exactly the same noise but thought it was the motors in the climate control, still could be but I'm going to investigate headlamp adjuster now.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 22, 2018, 03:42:30 PM
Annoyingly, a replacement switch hasn't fixed it. It was OK for a few days but it's started up again >:(
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on April 22, 2018, 04:02:26 PM
Bugger. I turns out that I have exactly the same fault, and was sort of hoping the switch would fix it.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 23, 2018, 04:29:13 PM
It's possible that the replacement switch from an 09 model via Ebay just has a similar fault? The part "M37548" seems to be used on various Honda models
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on April 23, 2018, 05:08:18 PM
It's possible that the replacement switch from an 09 model via Ebay just has a similar fault? The part "M37548" seems to be used on various Honda models

Indeed it is possible to have another faulty switch, I might have a scour around for a new one and see what is what :)
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 24, 2018, 08:07:15 PM
I just tested the original switch according to the manual at http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/index.html and it matches the KE/KG values well
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 24, 2018, 08:59:25 PM
The trouble is, you know that it is an intermittent problem, so sometimes (maybe most of the time) it should read the correct values. Are you positive the lights move when the sound is present and does it only happen when the lights are on?
With the lights in the zero position, try leaving the plug off. If you still get the noise it is not the adjuster motors.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 25, 2018, 12:49:49 AM
1. Yes, I'm positive the beams move in unison with the noise (If they're on)
2. The noise can happen with the lights on or off
3. The noise comes from the area near the back of each headlight
4. The noises on both sides track each other closely but not perfectly.
5. Similarly if I change the switch position, one motor runs slightly longer than the other
6. The random noise and the noise I get when I operate the switch are very similar

I'll try disconnecting the switch and see what happens but I'm not sure how conclusive the results will be? This system is a Wheatstone Bridge? If the amplifier has an open circuit input instead of the 1.27V it's "expecting", almost anything might happen.

Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2018, 06:50:29 AM
I'll try disconnecting the switch and see what happens but I'm not sure how conclusive the results will be? This system is a Wheatstone Bridge? If the amplifier has an open circuit input instead of the 1.27V it's "expecting", almost anything might happen.
That is much more information than is available in the Haynes manual. Thanks.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on April 25, 2018, 04:56:55 PM
1. Yes, I'm positive the beams move in unison with the noise (If they're on)
2. The noise can happen with the lights on or off
3. The noise comes from the area near the back of each headlight
4. The noises on both sides track each other closely but not perfectly.
5. Similarly if I change the switch position, one motor runs slightly longer than the other
6. The random noise and the noise I get when I operate the switch are very similar

I'll try disconnecting the switch and see what happens but I'm not sure how conclusive the results will be? This system is a Wheatstone Bridge? If the amplifier has an open circuit input instead of the 1.27V it's "expecting", almost anything might happen.

Thanks for your input!

You lost me with the electronics but the noise I get is the same as the noise you posted, and it will happen when I mess with the switch. So turn ignition on and the noise happens for 5 secondsish, mess with the switch and it starts again.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2018, 05:04:04 PM
So turn ignition on and the noise happens for 5 secondsish,
When I turn on the ignition, the fuel pump runs for about 5 seconds, as it charges up the fuel pressure. I hear that noise.
However, I have never been aware of the adjuster motor sound, mind you, I have never listened for it.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 25, 2018, 05:54:39 PM
The behaviour you describe is "normal" and mine is like that a lot of the time. However, mine also does random whirring with no recent switch tweaking. In the recording in my original post, I hadn't touched the switch for at least a minute.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 25, 2018, 05:57:14 PM
The behaviour you describe is "normal" and mine is like that a lot of the time. However, mine also does random whirring with no recent switch tweaking. In the recording in my original post, I hadn't touched the switch for at least a minute.
I realise that. Molly, however, may be worrying about nothing.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on April 25, 2018, 06:21:22 PM
The behaviour you describe is "normal" and mine is like that a lot of the time. However, mine also does random whirring with no recent switch tweaking. In the recording in my original post, I hadn't touched the switch for at least a minute.
I realise that. Molly, however, may be worrying about nothing.

I gave up worrying about it when I realised it wasn't critical :) Before then though I was thinking ot could be all sorts. :)
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: John Ratsey on April 25, 2018, 10:38:05 PM
Is it possible to hear the headlight adjuster motors when the car is moving and the engine running? I presume they are in the headlight fittings so there's an engine between them and the driver. If the engine is running how easy is it to hear the motors when the adjuster switch is operated?

The conclusive evidence that it's the headlight adjuster motors running is the beam directions moving during night driving.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 26, 2018, 01:39:02 AM
Yes, it is possible to hear the adjusters when the car is moving under power. I suspect that at high revs, the sound will be masked.
No, the engine isn't between them and the driver. If you take a look at http://ukcar.reviews/wp-content/uploads/Honda_Jazz_2011/honda-jazz-2011_03.jpg you can see that the rear of the headlight assemblies (where the motor is) is quite a long way back, quite close to the back of the dashboard.
With the engine running, it is quite easy to hear the motors with the engine working moderately hard. I have not tried at 70mph :-)

Thanks

Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: Jocko on April 26, 2018, 10:14:55 AM
I am pleased to report that on my Mk 1 Jazz the headlamp adjuster motor is inaudible with the engine running, even at tick over. With the engine off you can just make it out going from 0 to 3, but is again inaudible returning from 3 - 0. Only the lights moving lets you know they are working. The motors are, however, well forward on the Mk 1 Jazz.
Gave me something to do on a quiet morning!
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on April 26, 2018, 02:01:30 PM
Thanks very much for your input on this Jocko!  :) I think I now have a good understanding of what's going on.

1. Googling around, other cars/makes have similar problems. It's fairly rare - although Hyundai did a recall some years back
2. I used to have a Civic that very occasionally did a one-off whirr - I  just assumed it was some random actuator and didn't investigate. The Civic's adjuster was audible when used.
3. The Wheatstone Bridge circuit is inherently sensitive - traditionally it was used to measure resistance very precisely.  I would expect it to be quite jittery in response to various minor circuit problems
4. Lots of headlight adjustment motors on various cars may be operating unnoticed
- Because their mechanicals are naturally quiet
- Because they are further away from the driver
- Because the systems are only powered up when the lights are on.



Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: steveha on May 15, 2018, 12:14:38 AM
Ok, a wash-up on this.
 
1. With the "new" switch, I notice the motors running perhaps once every 100 miles which is much less frequent than before.
2. Seems highly likely that the switch is the issue
3. Will the "excessive" running of the motors lead to early failure? Perhaps not. Looking at various circuit diagrams, it looks like the headlight motor may be common to models with HID lights and auto-levelling.  Such models would be adjusting the headlights all the time in hilly districts.
4. So I'm going to ignore it unless it changes.
5. If you get the issue of both motors running together (approximately), consider replacing the switch.
Title: Re: Headlight adjuster motor running randomly
Post by: guest7483 on May 15, 2018, 06:47:58 PM
I have to say since I wangled the switch up and down a lot I haven't heard a thing, but I shall consider a new switch if anything changes.