Author Topic: Jazz battery warranty  (Read 3193 times)

RustyK

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Jazz battery warranty
« on: September 13, 2022, 02:40:38 AM »
What does the Honda battery warranty mean (EG < 80% of capacity)?
How would you measure it?
Would a loss of capacity make any difference?

Bristol_Crosstar

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2022, 09:28:51 AM »
A loss of capacity in the battery would have an effect on fuel consumption in certain situations as the ICE would be in use for longer. EV batteries all lose capacity over time (usually only 2 or 3% each year), this is normal.

mitchelln

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2022, 10:05:45 AM »
Rather worryingly, the dealership I placed my order with didn't know anything about the battery. I asked what level of degradation was deemed acceptable before they replaced the pack and they simply didn't know. Just stated that it was a 5 year warranty. They said they would ask Honda Technical, but I haven't heard back.

I guess this is all new ground with the Jazz.

Nicksey

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2022, 03:56:21 PM »
All chargeable batteries will suffer some degradation as they get older/used more. I haven't the foggiest what the Jazz will be like in 5/10/15 years, but.. I know that battery technology is advancing at a great pace. I would like to think that in a few years Honda will have brought out an upgrade, and you may be able to change the existing battery for a same sized one but at a bigger kilowattage that requires less charge. Thus giving you a better EV range before the generator or petrol kicks in.

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2022, 05:02:51 PM »
All chargeable batteries will suffer some degradation as they get older/used more. I haven't the foggiest what the Jazz will be like in 5/10/15 years, but.. I know that battery technology is advancing at a great pace. I would like to think that in a few years Honda will have brought out an upgrade, and you may be able to change the existing battery for a same sized one but at a bigger kilowattage that requires less charge. Thus giving you a better EV range before the generator or petrol kicks in.
I read somewhere  that scientists are working on a EV battery which could potentially be fully charged in just 90 seconds.
 Imagine the potential if Honda were ever able  to fully charge  the hybrid HV battery with such a short engine running time .      I expect they would want to sell new models, not upgrade old ones.      But in 5 -10 years time   there may be  more after market  battery possibilities, and specialists able to upgrade and renovate batteries without having to pay Honda prices  .  There are already a few specialists rebuilding batteries with new cells ,  ripping petrol engines out of old classics and turning them into EV's etc so who knows what could be done for older Hybrids.      :-*
  I will fix that dripping tap.  No need to keep reminding me every 3 months.

madasafish

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2022, 05:53:35 PM »
All chargeable batteries will suffer some degradation as they get older/used more. I haven't the foggiest what the Jazz will be like in 5/10/15 years, but.. I know that battery technology is advancing at a great pace. I would like to think that in a few years Honda will have brought out an upgrade, and you may be able to change the existing battery for a same sized one but at a bigger kilowattage that requires less charge. Thus giving you a better EV range before the generator or petrol kicks in.
I read somewhere  that scientists are working on a EV battery which could potentially be fully charged in just 90 seconds.
 Imagine the potential if Honda were ever able  to fully charge  the hybrid HV battery with such a short engine running time .      I expect they would want to sell new models, not upgrade old ones.      But in 5 -10 years time   there may be  more after market  battery possibilities, and specialists able to upgrade and renovate batteries without having to pay Honda prices  .  There are already a few specialists rebuilding batteries with new cells ,  ripping petrol engines out of old classics and turning them into EV's etc so who knows what could be done for older Hybrids.      :-*

A 30KWH battery charged in 90 seconds? Would need a 1200KW supply.

I would imagine the local cabling would glow red hot and substations would overload..  That is one huge load - especially if more than 1 car charges at the same time..or 10 or,,

JimSh

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2022, 06:12:33 PM »
Early days yet but there is far more scope for battery development than ICE development.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/battery-charge-record-electric-car-b2166102.html
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 06:31:10 PM by JimSh »

ndavey1

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2022, 06:13:34 PM »
Yep the future of electric vehicles looks good with battery technology advancing. An article came out today regarding a Harvard developed solid state ev battery that can be charged fully in 3 mins and last for 20 years (10,000 cycles). The oil companies held patents on battery technologies that ran out quite recently.

JimSh

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2022, 06:32:20 PM »
Yep the future of electric vehicles looks good with battery technology advancing. An article came out today regarding a Harvard developed solid state ev battery that can be charged fully in 3 mins and last for 20 years (10,000 cycles). The oil companies held patents on battery technologies that ran out quite recently.

If they did I bet they kept them well hidden.

From 2006
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/

https://watchdocumentaries.com/who-killed-the-electric-car/
« Last Edit: September 13, 2022, 07:39:06 PM by JimSh »

ndavey1

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2022, 07:46:26 PM »
Great documentary but very frustrating. Watched it a few times in the past!

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2022, 01:58:36 PM »

A 30KWH battery charged in 90 seconds? Would need a 1200KW supply.

I would imagine the local cabling would glow red hot and substations would overload..  That is one huge load - especially if more than 1 car charges at the same time..or 10 or,,

No thats how many watts would be needed for todays  battery technology  . These would be different ,quantum, battery technology.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/battery-charge-time-electric-car-quantum-b2042063.html

The car battery is still at an early stage of development ,maybe even just theoretical 

But the following  web site suggests that a different technology, Lithium carbon batteries able to charge this quickly  will be available for  electric scooters by the end of this year

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/08/04/lithium-carbon-battery-from-allotrope-energy-can-recharge-in-90-seconds/#:~:text=In%20theory%2C%20the%20battery%20could,a%20prototype%20buffered%20charge%20point.

On the downside |I think India has had a number of fatalities due to electric scooters catching fire.   ???
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 02:02:50 PM by Lord Voltermore »
  I will fix that dripping tap.  No need to keep reminding me every 3 months.

Nicksey

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2022, 07:20:59 PM »
On the downside |I think India has had a number of fatalities due to electric scooters catching fire.   ???

This is a bad thing?

nowster

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2022, 11:22:20 PM »
No thats how many watts would be needed for todays  battery technology  . These would be different ,quantum, battery technology.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/battery-charge-time-electric-car-quantum-b2042063.html
I call balderdash on that one. You can't cheat the laws of physics.

You still need to push electrons into the storage somehow, regardless of how they're stored. Energy flow is measured in Watts.

To fill a 30kWh battery you need to supply it with 30kW for an hour, or 60kW for half an hour, 120kW for fifteen minutes, 360kW for five minutes, 1.8MW for one minute, or 3.6MW for 30 seconds.

A typical domestic electricity supply is 80A at 240V. That's 19.2kW in total.

To do 3.6MW at 200A would require a voltage of about 18kV. That's the sort of voltages used on the local distribution network to feed substations. (Actually most town substations are fed by 6.6kV.) You're talking seriously dangerous voltages and huge cabling.

Kenneve

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2022, 08:07:10 PM »
Just out of interest, does anyone know the voltage rating of the Jazz HV battery?
I had heard it was circa 148V, but I could be wrong.

RustyK

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Re: Jazz battery warranty
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2022, 09:12:24 PM »
My understanding is that the HV battery is 12cells @3.6v x 4 modules = 3.6x12x4 = 172.8V

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