Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: mikebore on November 05, 2016, 12:45:26 PM
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Having had three false warnings since getting the car in June, when the warning came on yesterday, near the end of a journey, the car felt OK so I ignored it, and resolved to check pressures and recalibrate next morning.
Next morning went out to car to find one rear completely flat!
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Lol. Mine has never gone off in the six months I've owned the vehicle. I'm beginning to think it might be faulty :)
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Lol. Mine has never gone off in the six months I've owned the vehicle. I'm beginning to think it might be faulty :)
I never had a warning in the 13 months with my orange Mk 3. I did take the precaution of remembering to set the computer to recalibrate after checking / adjusting the tyre pressures (probably only a couple of times over that period). One doesn't need to start driving immediately after setting the recalibration - the computer will remember to do so even if it has to wait a week or more. I think that some Jazz owners don't get far enough through the manual to discover the mention of recalibration - they think that checking / adjusting the pressures is enough, which it would be if there were pressure sensors on each wheel.
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Lol. Mine has never gone off in the six months I've owned the vehicle. I'm beginning to think it might be faulty :)
its easy enough to test if you deliberately lower pressure in one tyre - mine went off at about 25 PSI when I had a slow puncture in a rear tyre.
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When my Jazz was 18 months old. I bought a o/e, sensor type wheel, from a slightly newer, scrapped Jazz.
Dunlop o/e tyre, fitted at local Halfords. Wheel fitted to n/s front.
After driving 1 mile, the warning flashed. Check pressures! The new tyre was 5psi underinflated.
I corrected the pressure. End of........
That is the only warning I have ever had. I know nothing about having to recalibrate the computer!
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Mine went off in the early days when were setting off on holiday 4up plus boot full of luggage. When setting off I increased tyre pressures and gave no thought to reseting tyre deflation setting.
No better experience than by learning by mistakes.
Never had any false alarms - fingers crossed.
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Interesting little snippet from latest Which? magazine. Doesn't really tell you much, apart from someone feeling sufficiently concerned about it to write to a magazine (but not go to a dealer). Wonder if the reference to " ... similar complaints online ..." refers to this forum ?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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And from todays Times -
Thousands of motorists could be driving with dangerously under-inflated tyres because their car’s warning system fails to alert them to a loss of pressure, tests show.
The systems passed legally required trials in laboratories but repeatedly failed to operate on the road in results that campaigners say have strong similarities to Volkswagen’s diesel emissions tests scandal.
A VW Golf failed to detect an under-inflated tyre in 14 out of 16 real-world tests and a Fiat 500L failed all 16 tests, according to research by an independent company commissioned by the campaign group Transport & Environment (T&E). Under-inflated tyres have more contact with the road, which can result in overheating leading to premature wear, tread separation and sudden loss of pressure. It can result in blow-outs and cause fatal crashes.
All new cars since 2014 have to be fitted with tyre pressure monitoring systems (TPMS) that pass official type approval tests. Some directly measure the pressure in each tyre but other, slightly cheaper, indirect systems are supposed to detect pressure changes by comparing the wheels’ rotational speed. The problems detected by T&E relate to indirect systems, which the group says are unsafe and can lull the driver into a false sense of security. Drivers might assume that no warning light meant that there was no problem and fail to check their tyres as a result.
T&E commissioned the Spanish company Idiada to test a rented VW Golf 7 and Fiat 500L. The TPMS warning light appeared within the legally required ten minutes under the conditions set for the official test. The system failed, however, to detect the same under-inflated tyre when the cars were driven in various ways on a test track, including at 30mph and 60mph. The cars also failed to alert the driver that the system was malfunctioning, as they are required to under EU law.
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Interesting little snippet from latest Which? magazine. Doesn't really tell you much, apart from someone feeling sufficiently concerned about it to write to a magazine (but not go to a dealer). Wonder if the reference to " ... similar complaints online ..." refers to this forum ?
I saw that and wondered whether the person had read the handbook to discover the recalibration procedure. The Which? people wouldn't know about it unless they looked through the handbook which, because it isn't available on-line, isn't easy unless one of the staff has a Mk 3 Jazz.
The underlying problem is that this system, based on changes in wheel rotation speeds, does require calibration whereas a system with pressure sensors in each wheel does not. Honda might be wise to put a stick on the door pillar next to the tyre pressure label noting the need for recalibration as explained in the handbook.
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Honda might be wise to put a sticker on the door pillar next to the tyre pressure label noting the need for recalibration as explained in the handbook.
That is a very good suggestion!
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Honda might be wise to put a sticker on the door pillar next to the tyre pressure label noting the need for recalibration as explained in the handbook.
That is a very good suggestion!
I agree, as long as we don't end up with American style warning labels plastered all over the car. The " If you crash the car its your fault" page that has to be acknowledged at each engine start is bad enough!
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think maybe we should be aware that only some of the previous Jazz Mks had TPMS systems fitted. Like my wife's 15 reg Si. This system works by detecting an actual change in the tyre pressure and via a module attached to the valve inside the tyre trasmits a signal to the ECU.
The current car - has DWS, a Deflation Warning System that works through the VSA by detecting the differing rotation speeds when a tyre deflates and the diameter changes.
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The current car - has DWS, a Deflation Warning System that works through the VSA by detecting the differing rotation speeds when a tyre deflates and the diameter changes.
Thus ensuring that as the vehicle grows older, tyre replacement must be in twos - for each axle - and of course using a spare wheel will automatically give lots of warnings.
Glad I have a mark 2 without TPMS- the stories of disasters with Lexus SC and Toyota RAV4 T180 models put me off until the technology is sorted.
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The current car - has DWS, a Deflation Warning System that works through the VSA by detecting the differing rotation speeds when a tyre deflates and the diameter changes.
Thus ensuring that as the vehicle grows older, tyre replacement must be in twos - for each axle - and of course using a spare wheel will automatically give lots of warnings.
It doesn't work like that. The calibration process re-sets the starting values for each wheel, and only changes from the initial values will trigger the alerts.
Certainly fitting the spare will trigger an alert unless you recalibrate (which takes all of 10 seconds to initiate).
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It doesn't work like that. The calibration process re-sets the starting values for each wheel, and only changes from the initial values will trigger the alerts.
Presumably it allows for a gradual change over time as the tyre wears. Although that could be problematic. Front to back wear differences might not matter but front wheels can often wear differently on each side if the driver is regularly negotiating a lot of roundabouts - eg; lives in Milton Keynes.
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It doesn't work like that. The calibration process re-sets the starting values for each wheel, and only changes from the initial values will trigger the alerts.
Presumably it allows for a gradual change over time as the tyre wears. Although that could be problematic. Front to back wear differences might not matter but front wheels can often wear differently on each side if the driver is regularly negotiating a lot of roundabouts - eg; lives in Milton Keynes.
I would expect that system design assumes that the tyres are checked, topped up and TWS calibrated quite frequently so that wear effects are therefore taken care of by normal maintenance.
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During the learning period after calibration (you have to drive a certain distance at at above a certain speed) will tune the system to try to prevent false alarms. I have only had my system trigger once on the Jazz MK1 (after I had new tyres fitted to front axle) and a couple of times on the Civic (same cause, a slow caused by corrosion on the rim where original Honda factory wheel balancing weight clip had been hammered on the rim under tyre bead - damaging the paint and causing electrolytic corrosion between steel clip and aluminium with salt water in winter (another reason for having steel rims in winter) - most responsible tyre fitters use adhesive weights).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire-pressure_monitoring_system
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My 2015 Mk2, has TPMS. With no apparent means of, "resetting".
As I understand it. If all 4 wheels are rotating at the same pace as one another all is well.
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My 2015 Mk2, has TPMS. With no apparent means of, "resetting".
As I understand it. If all 4 wheels are rotating at the same pace as one another all is well.
Maybe if there no reset/calibration the tolerance before an alert is larger.
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My 2015 Mk2, has TPMS. With no apparent means of, "resetting".
As I understand it. If all 4 wheels are rotating at the same pace as one another all is well.
Maybe if there no reset/calibration the tolerance before an alert is larger.
Dunno about that......
As I wrote, on p1. It flashed up, after a mile with the new tyre, 5 psi underinflated.
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I don't even need to reset my TPMS when I go from summer to winter tyres. Unless your system is direct pressure measurement (did Honda ever fit this to UK Jazz ? even for one model year ? ) there has got to be a way for recalibration - on USA Honda models they get a convenient button on the dash to press for a couple of seconds until TPMS symbol flashes and then they can drive a couple of miles to reset.
Logically I think indirect (ABS sensor based) TPMS can be less sensitive on low profile tyres due to the fact there will be less change in rolling radius as pressure drops.
I have read that direct TPMS (pressure sensors in wheels) has proved to be troublesome and expensive though.
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I have read that direct TPMS (pressure sensors in wheels) has proved to be troublesome and expensive though.
Renault ones: http://tinyurl.com/gulnras (http://tinyurl.com/gulnras) (what can you expect of the French ? They have form on this)
Lexus ones: http://tinyurl.com/hkcvgp2 (http://tinyurl.com/hkcvgp2)
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yet again this is the latest Jazz - it DOES NOT HAVE TPMS!!
It has DWS!!
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yet again this is the latest Jazz - it DOES NOT HAVE TPMS!!
It has DWS!!
I suspect DWS Deflation Warning System is just another name for TPMS, it may not measure pressure directly using pressure sensors in valves (which is why deflation rather than pressure is used) instead it uses ABS brake sensor pulses to detect when a wheel speeds up because tyre pressure is dropping and 'effective rolling radius ' of wheel is reduced, in effect the wheel has to rotate faster as its radius gets less to keep up with the other 'full size wheels'.
Indirect TPMS is a generic term for when a system uses ABS pulses, direct TPMS is when pressure sensors are fitted to directly monitor pressure. It is the same with VSA, different car makers call this different names (ESP and ESC are just a couple) - Honda just chose to use DWS this time for their 'TPMS' system.
BTW is using two exclamation marks a sign of exasperation with this forum !! tch tch
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Yes it is frustrating when a discussion on a subject is based on misinformation and despite others indication earlier the differences between the systems it continues. If a sensible discussion is to be had on any subject the basic facts have to be recognised
Both systems are designed to warn of potential tyre pressure condition but are distinctly different in operation.
From authorised Honda source:-
"TPMS is a system used briefly through the previous shape jazz and Accord only 2014/2015 chassis. The current Jazz does have a tyre deflation warning system as per EU law on all new cars, however the system on the current Jazz is DWS (Deflation Warning System). The DWS system is standard on all the new models and works in conjunction with the VSA system. When one of the wheels increases rotation ahead of the other 3, it assumes that the rolling circumference has reduced, ergo the tyre has deflated and will trigger the alarm. TPMS is an independent system that measures the individual tyre pressures of each wheel and constantly reports to it’s receiver unit on every rotation, however, as I stated, the current Jazz does not come with TPMS it has DWS which has no additional components, ie sensor valves etc.
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The abs (or as you call it VSA vehicle stability assist which itself uses ABS pulses and an accelerometer and a wheel angle sensor ) based system has been used by Honda for many years and you need to understand that when forum posters talk about TPMS that is the system they are referring to. I am not sure if Jazz has ever been fitted with pressure sensors and as I said in a previous post, it would have only been for a short time (2015 model ).
TPMS is a generic term covering both the direct dTPMS (pressure sensors used ) and indirect iTPMS (ABS based). DWS is maybe a term Honda and some companies use when they don't use pressure sensors (instead of more clumsy but probably technically correct iTPMS). Legislation would refer to TPMS as a 'catch all' phrase to cover all methods of detecting when a tyre is losing pressure.
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my 15 plate Mk2 Ex has the wheel sensors but no reset in menu, so wheels will be a problem if they get damaged or if wanted to put winter tyres on steel wheels, much prefer the abs ones less problems with changing tyres. My would need reset with honda dealer.
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my 15 plate Mk2 Ex has the wheel sensors but no reset in menu, so wheels will be a problem if they get damaged or if wanted to put winter tyres on steel wheels, much prefer the abs ones less problems with changing tyres. My would need reset with honda dealer.
You don't need to do a reset / calibration if there are individual wheel pressure sensors as on the late Mk 2 Jazz (assuming that they are designed to not trigger false alarms over the likely pressure range. It's the DWS as on the Mk 3 which needs the calibration after changing tyres / adjusting pressures so it can figure out the baseline condition (eg identifying a slightly worn tyre which inherently rotates faster).
I looked in my HR-V manual as I don't have a Jazz any more but it uses exactly the same DWS. I found the only mention of calibrating the DWS is in the section about the multi-function computer and there is no mention in the text relating to adjusting tyre pressures - a careless omission by Honda. Hence my earlier suggestion about having a sticker mentioning calibration next to the label giving the pressures.
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Problem with pressure sensors is that every wheel needs one including spare, if you had winter wheels the ecu would need the new sensors programmed so that it recognises them that's when it gets expensive and more complicated - is that what jazzster meant by dealer reset ?
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Does anyone know where to get an accurate tyre pressure gauge from?
I have four devices, two are part of compressors, and two are separate analogue dial type (not sliding rod). The range of pressures measured on the same tyre is 30-36 psi.
I wouldn't mind paying a bit over the odds for an accurate one.
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I am happy with my digital gauge. Similar to this one..... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-NEW-LCD-Digital-Tyre-Air-Pressure-Gauge-PSI-Tester-Tool-For-Auto-Car-Motorc-/182203086368?hash=item2a6c267620:g:qR8AAOSw5cNYExDn (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-NEW-LCD-Digital-Tyre-Air-Pressure-Gauge-PSI-Tester-Tool-For-Auto-Car-Motorc-/182203086368?hash=item2a6c267620:g:qR8AAOSw5cNYExDn)
For a truly accurate gauge, you need to go industrial. Not worth it, in my opinion......
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This any help?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test)
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This any help?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test)
Thanks. I have ordered two of the RaceX (one for each car). I like the fact it has been top rated for ten years. Will be interesting to see if the two gauges give the same reading.
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This any help?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test)
Thanks. I have ordered two of the RaceX (one for each car). I like the fact it has been top rated for ten years. Will be interesting to see if the two gauges give the same reading.
They arrived today and I am very impressed. Very solid metal body, easy to use without air escaping, clear dial with 1psi divisions, release valve to reduce pressure. Both instruments measured within 0.5 psi off each other. Each instrument has a unique serial number. The only negative is the case it comes which I find difficult to open, and will be replacing.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/93915/racex-tyre-gauge-rx0014 (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/93915/racex-tyre-gauge-rx0014)
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Mine went off tonight as I was driving down the A34. Car feels fine, fuel consumption is good (60mpg displayed at journey's end). I'd just filled up with fuel so when reached my destination I reset it. Driving back, after ten minutes it went off again. Car still feels fine.
I'll check the tyres in the morning but the manual says it needs 30 minutes of driving to calibrate whereas mine claims it calibrates immediately.
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I agree the process does seem somewhat misleading. As you say it says completed immediately when you instruct a calibration, but the manual says 30 minutes driving . I have been assuming that "completed" means "instructed".
Deeps and I have both had warnings shortly after doing a calibration....I suppose the calibration must fail for some reason.
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It's probable that distance is the key ingredient. 30 minutes of urban driving may barely provide enough miles for the system to figure out the relative rotation speeds of the different wheels (the tyres may all have different amounts of wear) but maybe 10 minutes along an open road is enough.
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Mine went off after about ten minutes driving back along the A34 at 60mph so it's likely it had enough time to calibrate. What puzzles me is if it went off again so soon after calibration that ought to mean it was deflating rapidly, oughtn't it?
The tyres are too warm to check right now but based on handling and fuel consumption I haven't noticed anything. Fuel consumption was slightly worse coming back but having just filled up on the outbound journey I don't think much can be read into a reported difference of 2mpg. Abingdon is 100 metres lower than Brackley so it's probably just that (in-joke amongst my friends).
Actually although the altitude thing is a joke it is actually true and on several journeys me and friends have noticed that fuel consumption heading south is generally better than when we head north. One other silly theory we have is that the Earth's rotation tends to lighten the vehicle as you get nearer to the equator :D
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If you notice one tyre looking soft in the morning then we know that TPMS actually works! If all the tyres are looking OK then I would try another recalibration.
Given that there was a bit of an NE wind today I would expect the north-bound leg of the journey to be noticeably worse for fuel consumption. A 10 mph headwind mean that 60 mph has the wind resistance of 70 mph while a 10 mph tail wind means there's the wind resistance of 50 mph.
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If you notice one tyre looking soft in the morning then we know that TPMS actually works! If all the tyres are looking OK then I would try another recalibration.
There were a little bit low this morning. Not flat as all were above 30psi but they all needed a boost and one was slightly lower than the rest. It's a cold-ish morning so that could be why the drop but it's odd that the TPMS should notice after I've been driving for so long. Tyre temps should have corrected that. Unless that's why it takes time to calibrate of course.
Anyway no flat but I'll say that the TPMS warning was appropriate in this instance :)
Given that there was a bit of an NE wind today I would expect the north-bound leg of the journey to be noticeably worse for fuel consumption. A 10 mph headwind mean that 60 mph has the wind resistance of 70 mph while a 10 mph tail wind means there's the wind resistance of 50 mph.
Good point. Anyway we'll see how it goes today. I have a twenty mile round trip to a golf course then the same trip as last night.
On the subject of inflating tyres - why the *bleep* to compressors have screw fittings these days? What happened to the good ol' lever connection? You can't help but let some of the air out with a screw fitting. I'm off to see if someone has produced an adaptor.
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On the subject of inflating tyres - why the *bleep* to compressors have screw fittings these days? What happened to the good ol' lever connection? You can't help but let some of the air out with a screw fitting. I'm off to see if someone has produced an adaptor.
Out of habit I use a foot pump, which has the lever connector, for topping up the tyres. However, I've found that the rubber inside the connector wears / perishes with time and recently had to replace my old foot pump because it was no longer reliably clamping onto the valve and would jump off when I started pumping.
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On the subject of inflating tyres - why the *bleep* to compressors have screw fittings these days? What happened to the good ol' lever connection? You can't help but let some of the air out with a screw fitting. I'm off to see if someone has produced an adaptor.
Out of habit I use a foot pump, which has the lever connector, for topping up the tyres. However, I've found that the rubber inside the connector wears / perishes with time and recently had to replace my old foot pump because it was no longer reliably clamping onto the valve and would jump off when I started pumping.
Well I can't find any adaptors but it's still possible to buy a compressor with a lever connector if you're careful so I've bought a new compressor. I suppose ought to keep a foot pump for when the compressor fails but as I'll now have three of those I think I'm covered :)
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However, I've found that the rubber inside the connector wears / perishes with time and recently had to replace my old foot pump because it was no longer reliably clamping onto the valve and would jump off when I started pumping.
Well I can't find any adaptors
There's no need to buy a complete new pump or compressor, I had the same problem and found this to be widely available in a certain well-known accessories emporium:
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/breakdown-essentials/halfords-thumb-lock-tyre-valve-connector (http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/garage-equipment/breakdown-essentials/halfords-thumb-lock-tyre-valve-connector)
Straightforward to fit ... cut off the old adaptor, insert the new one, tighten the jubilee clip. No problems after around a year of (occasional) use.
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On the subject of inflating tyres - why the *bleep* to compressors have screw fittings these days? What happened to the good ol' lever connection? You can't help but let some of the air out with a screw fitting. I'm off to see if someone has produced an adaptor.
I actually find the screw on connectors easier to use and more positive in their action, IMHO lever connectors are fiddly and a bit hit and miss, you either get a good one or one that is never gonna work reliably. I find you lose a lot less air on a screw one if you pull the pipe back as you screw it on and off, this means that the centre of the valve is not pushed down until the connector is pretty much fully on, and is released as early as possible when you screw it off - a teaspooon of air (5ml) in the volume of the tyre is neither here or there. I have thrown pumps with lever connectors away in disgust in the past when I got fed up of fiddling with them to get a good connection (and not all have been cheap ones). I had to replace the hose on my double barreled Michelin foot pump last year, I went to local motor factor and got a length of clear braided fuel hose, re-used the original (screw on) end.
I have rarely had the TPMS trigger on either Jazzes or Civic, only once after new tyres on one axle and again after one tyre lost 5psi - no problem with changing from Summer to winter tyres and back either, never had it trigger when I do that.
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Given that there was a bit of an NE wind today I would expect the north-bound leg of the journey to be noticeably worse for fuel consumption. A 10 mph headwind mean that 60 mph has the wind resistance of 70 mph while a 10 mph tail wind means there's the wind resistance of 50 mph.
And also wind resistance is proportional to square of your speed, which means a headwind takes away more than a tailwind can give you back (if they are both equal in strength) :-X
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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test)
tells all...
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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/85474/best-tyre-pressure-gauge-2016-group-test)
tells all...
Being an engineer I am well aware of the saying that 'digital readouts give an illusion of accuracy' - there is no doubt that a digital display with its bold display is attractive and reassuring - but it is only as good as the accuracy of its sensor and the resolution of the analogue to digital converter chip in the device, as well as how good the battery voltage is. This test shows there is still a place for analogue devices in a digital world. And nothing worse than pulling out the tyre gauge and finding batteries are flat (and some of the coin batteries can cost more to replace than the gauge is worth). Truth is if its got t!ts, tyres or a battery its gonna give you problems :o
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I have checked and topped up my tyres this morning, it is the first top up since my false alarm. I have reset the TPMS and will be driving for more than half an hour tomorrow. I will let you know the result.
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I've just got back after my golf and a round trip of 30 miles. Not a peep from the TPMS so it looks like it wasn't a flat, just a general loss of pressure all round. So well done to TPMS for altering me to that.
Repeated my trip of Saturday night but with no alert this time so that tends to confirm that it was a valid warning.
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No TPMS alarms today, I suspect my false alarm was self inflicted by initialising with the handbrake off.
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Recently had second experience of 'possible false alarm'. After doing around 70 miles on motorway on it comes again. Previously had pumped tyres up at garage (256 miles before) re-initialised alarm.
The only thing I can remember is that I did unfortunately find a significant pot hole about 15 miles before alarm came on..
Trouble is in Kent there seems to be more potholes than road, slight exaggeration, but you know where I'm coming from.
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The only thing I can remember is that I did unfortunately find a significant pot hole about 15 miles before alarm came on..
That's interesting. When mine triggered on the A34 it was after I'd gone over several potholes. None of them felt severe but they were deep enough to make the car lurch. On my second trip I was wise to it and found that by hugging the rumble strip I could avoid them.
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Had first service last Monday after 12 months and 10,000 miles. On Friday, after another 300 miles, the tyre pressure warning comes back. Pressures OK, so I assume service did not recalibrate after checking pressures!
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I had my front tyres changed about a week ago and did my first long journey yesterday. A total of 250 miles and I had to calibrate the warning 3 times.
I've not driven it today but wondered if this could be because the rears are well worn and the fronts are new. Just a guess. Anyone have ideas?
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I had my front tyres changed about a week ago and did my first long journey yesterday. A total of 250 miles and I had to calibrate the warning 3 times.
I've not driven it today but wondered if this could be because the rears are well worn and the fronts are new. Just a guess. Anyone have ideas?
I don't think the difference between front and rear would trigger it. Perhaps the new tyres are "bedding in"? I had several false alarms when the car was new, and once after the pressure check at the first service, but nothing since. Second service due in Feb.....
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I had my front tyres changed about a week ago and did my first long journey yesterday. A total of 250 miles and I had to calibrate the warning 3 times.
I've not driven it today but wondered if this could be because the rears are well worn and the fronts are new. Just a guess. Anyone have ideas?
I don't think the difference between front and rear would trigger it. Perhaps the new tyres are "bedding in"? I had several false alarms when the car was new, and once after the pressure check at the first service, but nothing since. Second service due in Feb.....
Difference between diameter of tyres is exactly what triggers TPMS (ABS system) - one of the few times I have had a TPMS warning was when I had a couple of new tyres fitted and alarm pinged on the way home - quite a few miles into the journey as well. Once the system 'knows' (via re-calibration) that the rears are smaller diameter and are rotating slightly faster than fronts it should be happy enough. Last time I had more than one TPMS warning on the Civic was when I had 'under-bead' corrosion on a rear alloy, cause by Honda using 'knock-on' wheel balance weights that effectively damaged the paint on wheels from new and allowed corrosion to get under tyre bead - any decent tyre garage will use adhesive weights.
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I had my front tyres changed about a week ago and did my first long journey yesterday. A total of 250 miles and I had to calibrate the warning 3 times.
I've not driven it today but wondered if this could be because the rears are well worn and the fronts are new. Just a guess. Anyone have ideas?
I don't think the difference between front and rear would trigger it. Perhaps the new tyres are "bedding in"? I had several false alarms when the car was new, and once after the pressure check at the first service, but nothing since. Second service due in Feb.....
Difference between diameter of tyres is exactly what triggers TPMS (ABS system) - one of the few times I have had a TPMS warning was when I had a couple of new tyres fitted and alarm pinged on the way home - quite a few miles into the journey as well.
Doesn't the need for repeated recalibration suggest that something is changing?
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I would check the tyres carefully. In two years I've only ever had that warning twice. Once after I inflated the tyres and forgot to reset it and once when (I think) a pothole on the A34 triggered a pressure drop. I've never had any false alarms despite my first set of tyres only lasting about 13k miles.
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Thanks for the replies. I think it must be a bedding in thing as I can't see anything wrong with the tyres. There clearly isn't a genuine deflation or I would notice by now.
I've only ever had it once before and that was when the car was about two weeks old.
It's due in for a service next week so I will carefully monitor it in the mean time.
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I have only had two false tyre warnings, one my calibration failure, the other a cars calibration failure, (alarm 30 minutes driving after a calibration reset).
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Its what happens these days when Brussels is full of lobbyists thinking of ways to earn bonuses, implemented by MEP's who are driven a few metres in an official car
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Its what happens these days when Brussels is full of lobbyists thinking of ways to earn bonuses, implemented by MEP's who are driven a few metres in an official car
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Tyre pressure monitoring systems are a very good idea that the entire industry has been moving toward. The US kick started it back in 2000 and if you want to be critical of the EU the correct way to do that would be to ask why it took nearly a decade for them to pass the equivalent legislation. But even that wouldn't be a valid criticism since the EU in effect just waited until the technology had matured.
There have been very few complaints about the technology on these forums so it also seems unjustified to argue against the legislation on that basis. It works. It's reliable. It is likely to save lives.
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I am happy with my two (one self inflicted) false alarms in 18 months of ownership, the system is reliable and a potential life saver. If you have ever experienced or witnessed a blowout at speed, usually caused by underinflation you will be happy to have TPMS fitted. I cringe when I see a car being driven with an almost flat tyre and keep well clear, an accident waiting to happen.
I also can't get wound up by the little green light which is the only way I can tell my lights are on in daylight, usually with good reason.
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Just bumping this thread for clarification. On a trip to North Wales today the Deflation Warning System light came on. Pulled into a service station and checked each wheel, tyre pressures all OK (bit high if anything). I had checked the tyres manually about a week ago and did put a bit of air in the two back tyres.
Get home about an hour ago. Checked all tyres again - all spot on both in terms of pressure and state of the tyre. Took the radical step of reading the manual and learned how to recalibrate the DWS. Have done this and the light has disappeared. I understand the process completes itself after a certain amount of driving.
Do I have to recalibrate after any inflation of a tyre (I check monthly)? Seems a bit of a faff.
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Am I correct in thinking Honda went back to ABS pulse system for Mk3 after trying the pressure sensor system on mk2 model year 2015 ? I had my ABS TPMS trigger a month or so ago because one tyre was a bit too high, other than that only triggered when I had a slow leak due to bead corrosion on an alloy, when I change from winter to summer and back on Civic (but not on Jazz) and when I have had new tyres fitted to only one axle. Otherwise it has been trouble and false alarm free.
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I guess another question I have on this topic is do people just rely on this system and not manually check the tyres on, say, a monthly basis? As a habitual checker of everything on the car this would go against the grain.
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Do I have to recalibrate after any inflation of a tyre (I check monthly)? Seems a bit of a faff.
I think a tyre inflation may trigger a false alarm. My policy is not to check the pressures, or hardly ever, and rely on visual checks, the annual service and the warning system. The most recent occasion I got an alarm (false) was a year ago following the service, presumably because they had checked the tyres!
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I guess another question I have on this topic is do people just rely on this system and not manually check the tyres on, say, a monthly basis? As a habitual checker of everything on the car this would go against the grain.
I still check my tyres regularly ( I give them a visual every time before I drive off, and a push on the sidewall with my thumb frequently, it is surprising how you can get to feel the difference depending on how springy the sidewall is).
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I had a tyre pressure warning in my HR-V last summer while driving on a motorway. Since everything sounded and felt OK I continued for about 20 miles to where we had planned to stop. Visual inspection and prodding could not identify any problem so I reset the calibration and continued my journey. There weren't any more warnings so I consider this to be a false alarm. Perhaps there had been a hint of pressure loss somewhere then too much sun on the other side had raised tyre temperatures and pressures sufficient for the system to go out of the allowable range. I checked the pressures after I got home (a few hundred miles later) and the tyres were all close to the required pressure.
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What was interesting about today was the car did a run of about 30 miles at motorway speeds and it was a bit warmer than it has been of late so maybe that triggered it.
I'll continue to monitor. I must admit, with reference to Downsizer's post above, my monthly checks might be a bit OTT now I've got a car with a warning system and I don't do a huge mileage. I have to say that the tyres lose very little pressure from what I can see. They vary more according to heat. Maybe I'll be daring and go quarterly - I will still do the visual checks.
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I had my front tyres changed about a week ago and did my first long journey yesterday. A total of 250 miles and I had to calibrate the warning 3 times.
I've not driven it today but wondered if this could be because the rears are well worn and the fronts are new. Just a guess. Anyone have ideas?
I don't think the difference between front and rear would trigger it. Perhaps the new tyres are "bedding in"? I had several false alarms when the car was new, and once after the pressure check at the first service, but nothing since. Second service due in Feb.....
As per earlier in the thread. I took no further action and never got any further warnings.
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Do I have to recalibrate after any inflation of a tyre (I check monthly)? Seems a bit of a faff.
I usually check mine manually before every long journey, or roughly monthly if no long journeys planned. The process of checking usually involves a small change in pressure, either minor leakage via the gauge or topping up using a footpump. In my 2.5 years of ownership I have never had a false (or real) alarm or needed to calibrate the sensors. That’s probably jinxed it now ...
My understanding of the TPMS is that it monitors rotational speed and raises the alarm if it detects a difference between wheels, which would occur if one tyre loses pressure. So it shouldn’t be affected by high ambient temperature which ought to affect all wheels equally.
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Since recalibrating yesterday - all good. The mystery is that it came on quite randomly a few days after I had put a smidgeon of air in the rear tyres.
At least I know how to recalibrate now!
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If TPMS is dissuading people from checking pressures then it's cause for concern. It was introduced because so many people failed to check pressures, not as an alternative for doing so. The system most cars including the Jazz have doesn't measure the pressure. It measures the rotational speed of the wheels and looks for changes indicative of a tyre with a reducing radius.
Unfortunately the system has to have a little flexibility because tyre radii also shrink with wear, and both internal and external air temperature. All in all this means the system will struggle to differentiate between wear and the kind of gradual leakage that all tyres suffer from.
Just because someone hasn't had a TPMS warning for several months doesn't mean that their tyres are the correct pressure.
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When I had a gradual leak (about 5PSI in a week) the ABS TPMS would alarm when pressure got about 5 PSI low. After a couple of alarms I eventually trace leak to under-bead alloy corrosion and put my winter tyres / steel wheels on until I got alloy wheels refurbed.
It also used to pick up when new tyres on one axle (about 5mm difference in rolling radius over tyres on other axle), and did pick up when one tyre was 4PSI over-inflated, so all-in-all it works pretty well and a lot less expense and hassle than the pressure sensor systems.
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Yeah, I think it works well. My concern is just with the idea of relying on it to keep tyres at the correct pressure. Tyres are one of the most safety critical components on a vehicle and care of them shouldn't be left to automation unless it can be relied on.
Honda have chosen to call their TPMS system DWS and I think that's with good reason. It will spot in-use failures effectively but may not spot general maintenance issues well, if at all.
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Second false alarm today. Again triggered by some reasonably quick motorway driving. Absolutely no problem with the tyre pressures so it is a false alarm pure and simple.
The internet is full of Honda owners reporting similar issues. Has anybody been back to their dealers with this? Is there a software update?
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So, just gone round with my new Michelin tyre pump (allegedly accurate to within + or - 1psi) and set all wheels to the exact recommended pressures and recalibrated the system again.
The light coming on at high speeds may, or may not, be a red herring but, interestingly, there is a whole thread on Honest John about the light coming on in a CRV after driving at 70 mph.
If it comes on again, I'll take it in to the dealers. False alarms defeat the whole object of the system.
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When you recalibrate the TPMS the shift lever must be in Park with the ignition on. The handbrake must be on for MT cars.
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Yes - handbrake on.
The other thing I did was a quick tread depth check - I've heard of instances where the system has been fooled by uneven tyre wear but they are all pretty even in that regard.
I'm anxious to get the system working properly. The basic concept of a tyre pressure warning system is a good one.
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Just read your last post. Ignition on but engine not started.
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Sorry about the edit, I was thinking MT cars, I have just ordered a 1.5 CVT and am in the knowledge transition phase.
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Yes - handbrake on.
The other thing I did was a quick tread depth check - I've heard of instances where the system has been fooled by uneven tyre wear but they are all pretty even in that regard.
I'm anxious to get the system working properly. The basic concept of a tyre pressure warning system is a good one.
Could the system be too sensitive and it is picking up the tyres 'growing' in diameter at higher speeds due to combination of air warming and centrifugal force.
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I'm anxious to get the system working properly. The basic concept of a tyre pressure warning system is a good one.
I started this thread after having two false alarms in the first few months of ownership, then the real warning which I ignored. All I can add is that the following 20k miles and twenty months since then I have had no alerts, false or real. Perhaps I should check the system is still working by letting a bit out of one the tyres.
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Yes - handbrake on.
The other thing I did was a quick tread depth check - I've heard of instances where the system has been fooled by uneven tyre wear but they are all pretty even in that regard.
I'm anxious to get the system working properly. The basic concept of a tyre pressure warning system is a good one.
Could the system be too sensitive and it is picking up the tyres 'growing' in diameter at higher speeds due to combination of air warming and centrifugal force.
Yes - did wonder about that, especially after reading the Honest John thread on his website. I'm hoping this is just a glitch as per mikebore's experience.
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The system detects rotational differences between the wheels, speed of rotation should not be a factor as all four wheels are rotating at the same speed. There must be some tolerance or time delay in the system to allow for different wheel rotation speeds caused by low speed manoeuvring, bends and roundabouts etc.
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The system detects rotational differences between the wheels, speed of rotation should not be a factor as all four wheels are rotating at the same speed.
If they are not all the same diameter due to wear or different pressures then the rotational speeds aren't the same.
Possibly the best precaution is a monthly re-run of the calibration the remove the effect of any small changes which, over time, would reach the threshold for triggering the warning.
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I think that's what I'll do John. It's no great hardship to do this every month as I check my pressures monthly in any event.
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The system detects rotational differences between the wheels, speed of rotation should not be a factor as all four wheels are rotating at the same speed.
If they are not all the same diameter due to wear or different pressures then the rotational speeds aren't the same.
Possibly the best precaution is a monthly re-run of the calibration the remove the effect of any small changes which, over time, would reach the threshold for triggering the warning.
But don't you want to be warned about an accumulation of small changes over time? A succession of recalibrations could mean missing a genuine drop in the pressure of one tyre.
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But don't you want to be warned about an accumulation of small changes over time? A succession of recalibrations could mean missing a genuine drop in the pressure of one tyre.
Recalibration should be done in conjunction with visual inspection or gauge checking (which tends to cause some air loss). My TPMS false alarm inconveniently happened on a motorway and I get the impression that the majority of false alarms occur under similar conditions where it isn't easy / safe to stop.
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That's my thinking John. As you check the tyres there is, inevitably, a small loss of pressure and you may also put a pound or two in to bring them up to the specified level.
I'm certainly going to run with this method for a bit. If it keeps coming on, I think there must be something wrong with it and, at that stage, I'll take it in.
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It should not be necessary to keep re-calibrating, nor to put up with repeated false alarms. Personally, I would get the dealer to check it under warranty, that should bowl out whether there is a system fault.
Assuming the dealer reports no fault, then there must be something causing the system to detect differing rotational speeds, which it interprets as different tyre pressures. Some random ideas:
1. There are a couple of queries on Honest John that seem relevant:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/59369/tyre-deflation-warning-system-malfunction
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/69714/honda-jazz-tyre-deflation-system---is-there-a-problem-
In both cases the suggestion is that there might be a slight unevenness between tyre pressures so that one of them triggers the alarm when it gets hot at speed. He seems confident that trial-and-error adjustment of pressures ought to fix it (which introduces the interesting question of how accurate is the pressure gauge you're using ?).
2. Could there be something about one wheel that causes it to heat up (or cool down) at speed more than the others ? Would a brake pad that doesn't quite lift clear of the disc do that ?
3. Would a slight wheel imbalance affect the rotational speed so as to trigger the alarm ?
I have no reason to think that any of these is the likely cause, just suggesting that if the system is working correctly then it is probably genuinely detecting some lack of symmetry between the wheels, your problem is finding it.
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I have never had 'false alarms' on either Jazz or Civic - if there has been an alarm it has been for a reason, new tyres fitted or changing from summer to winter tyres and back (even then not on the Jazz, only the Civic). I have had proper alarms when pressure has dropped 5psi with slow puncture so that is quite sensitive. If system is not happy with ABS pulses it is receiving the TPMS icon is supposed to flash.
Accuracy of pressure gauge should not really matter to TPMS if you are using the same one for all four wheels (although it does matter to your tyres). Some of the newer models of ABS based TPMS (iTPMS = intelligent TPMS) may have ''spectrum analysis' software which can apparently pick up irregularities in the ABS signals caused by all tyres being under-inflated (like when you just ran over a police stinger LOL). If you have iTPMS (don't know if MK3 Jazz has it) it may be that the software is not behaving correctly.
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Accuracy of pressure gauge should not really matter to TPMS if you are using the same one for all four wheels (although it does matter to your tyres).
What I was trying to get at (poorly) is this: let's say your pressure gauge is accurate to +/-2psi (which is probably significantly better than the average garage airline). If you use it to check and reset all your tyres to the same nominal value, it is conceivable that one tyre may actually be 2 psi below that value, another may be set 2 psi above despite the gauge reading the same in both cases. As the tyre heats up at speed, that pressure difference will increase and might be enough to trigger the TPMS. If the TPMS is "intelligent" such that it also monitors absolute pressure as well as (or instead of) relative pressure, then a tyre that's been accidentally over-inflated due to gauge inaccuracy would obviously breach any upper limit as it heats up before any tyres that have been under-inflated ... which ought to trigger the alarm.
That's all complete speculation and may be utter rubbish, but it seems plausible to me, it fits with Honest John's theory, and might help explain why some people are seeing this but not others.
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I think that it is the gauge that is +/- of a standard.
If you use the same gauge on all the tyres they will all be the same +/- of the standard because the gauge will have a constant error to the standard.
Therefore all the tyres will be the same pressure at the same reading on the gauge.
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I think that it is the gauge that is +/- of a standard.
If you use the same gauge on all the tyres they will all be the same +/- of the standard because the gauge will have a constant error to the standard.
Therefore all the tyres will be the same pressure at the same reading on the gauge.
Correct.
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I think that it is the gauge that is +/- of a standard.
If you use the same gauge on all the tyres they will all be the same +/- of the standard because the gauge will have a constant error to the standard.
Therefore all the tyres will be the same pressure at the same reading on the gauge.
Indeed. And that was my thinking behind going round the whole car and setting them at the recommended pressures. Each tyre, on each axle as it were, is inflated to the same level. I had already checked wear and it's pretty uniform (the car has only done 7500 miles).
So, if it goes off again, and the tyre pressures are all the same and no punctures, the system is definitely giving out false alarms.
Clearly it's a problem with this particular system but what I haven't yet been able to find is an example of somebody who has had this issue solved and how it was solved.
I'm hoping my issue will "go away" as it has with others.
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Accuracy of pressure gauge should not really matter to TPMS if you are using the same one for all four wheels (although it does matter to your tyres).
What I was trying to get at (poorly) is this: let's say your pressure gauge is accurate to +/-2psi (which is probably significantly better than the average garage airline). If you use it to check and reset all your tyres to the same nominal value, it is conceivable that one tyre may actually be 2 psi below that value, another may be set 2 psi above despite the gauge reading the same in both cases. As the tyre heats up at speed, that pressure difference will increase and might be enough to trigger the TPMS. If the TPMS is "intelligent" such that it also monitors absolute pressure as well as (or instead of) relative pressure, then a tyre that's been accidentally over-inflated due to gauge inaccuracy would obviously breach any upper limit as it heats up before any tyres that have been under-inflated ... which ought to trigger the alarm.
I'm not certain that an overinflated tyre heats up more than an under inflated one. It might be the other way round; I've forgotten the relevant physics! The lower pressure one will certainly flex more. Either way, it doesn't alter your speculative argument.
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I'm not certain that an overinflated tyre heats up more than an under inflated one. It might be the other way round; I've forgotten the relevant physics!
You are quite right, the flexing of the tyre walls makes the under inflated tyre heat up.
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I think that it is the gauge that is +/- of a standard.
If you use the same gauge on all the tyres they will all be the same +/- of the standard because the gauge will have a constant error to the standard.
Therefore all the tyres will be the same pressure at the same reading on the gauge.
Nope. If a gauge has a tolerance of plus or minus a few psi, it can read anywhere within that range. There is absolutely no reason why it will always read high or low so you cannot assume that all tyres are at the same pressure.
However it’s clearly not worth labouring the point further, it was simply a thought about what might be contributing to the issue reported.
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I'm not certain that an overinflated tyre heats up more than an under inflated one. It might be the other way round; I've forgotten the relevant physics!
You are quite right, the flexing of the tyre walls makes the under inflated tyre heat up.
Basic physics. Recommend revising Gay-Lussac’s law. Pressure is proportional to temperature. So if you have two tyres, one over-inflated and one under-inflated, and subject them both to the same temperature rise, the pressure differential will be proportionately greater after the temperature rise which may be enough to trigger the TPMS.
Whether that would be cancelled out or reversed by any tyre flexing is an interesting point. If that effect is significant, it might work against the TPMS because a reduced pressure would - via sidewall flexing - raise the temperature in the tyre which would tend to increase the pressure and inhibit the TPMS. I suspect there’s a PhD thesis in there somewhere to work out exactly what might be going on.
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I think that it is the gauge that is +/- of a standard.
If you use the same gauge on all the tyres they will all be the same +/- of the standard because the gauge will have a constant error to the standard.
Therefore all the tyres will be the same pressure at the same reading on the gauge.
Nope. If a gauge has a tolerance of plus or minus a few psi, it can read anywhere within that range. There is absolutely no reason why it will always read high or low so you cannot assume that all tyres are at the same pressure.
I tend to agree with zzaj on the + or - error tending to be in the same direction (like the error on a speedo), especially on a mechanical type gauge (stick or dial type), what can make a difference is hysteresis (where depending whether the pressure is rising or falling the device will measure a different value, but the pressure is rising and then constant when you measure a tyre pressure). Hysteresis would only make a difference if you left the gauge connected and then raised or lowered the pressure in the tyre by another means ( :o ), and depending if you raised or lowered the pressure the gauge would take up a different reading. I think sometimes as well the reading of a digital gauge can be affected by the condition of the battery, and in cheaper gauges the resolution of the analogue to digital converter may be dependent on the price you paid.
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At one stage of my career, testing and calibrating measuring equipment was part of our remit. What we found was, though a piece of equipment would be within its +- 2% limit (for example), repeatability would be within about a tenth of that. So once you knew how far out a piece of kit was, you could make an allowance and get a fairly reliable reading.
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My guess is that it is a calibration error rather then a tyre pressure problem. Are the alarms regularly 30 minutes driving time from a calibration? Are you getting a " Calibration complete" message in the multi function display after a calibration?
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I am getting the "Calibration Complete" message after a calibration. The only pattern to the false alarms I've had so far is that they have occurred after a shortish spell of motorway driving.
I've only had 2 false alarms so possibly not enough for a reliable pattern to emerge. After this last one, I have very carefully checked the tyre pressures and equalised them where necessary. Done a recalibration after that so I'll see what happens now. I gather the recalibration is not actually complete until you've covered a certain distance after setting it.
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The "Calibration complete" message only means that the reset is complete. The Calibration is not complete until 30 minutes of driving time (not necessarily all at once) have passed at speeds of between 25 and 62 mph.. If you get an alarm after the 30 minutes it means that the calibration has failed and it must be redone. The book also says that it may alarm during the calibration if the ignition is on and the car is not moved for 45 seconds.
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The "Calibration complete" message only means that the reset is complete. The Calibration is not complete until 30 minutes of driving time (not necessarily all at once) have passed at speeds of between 25 and 62 mph.. If you get an alarm after the 30 minutes it means that the calibration has failed and it must be redone. The book also says that it may alarm during the calibration if the ignition is on and the car is not moved for 45 seconds.
+1
Maybe going onto motorway before calibration has completed (driving at speed over 62mph) will cause an alarm.
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Just thinking back. The first false alarm went off after I had driven, roughly, 200 miles after picking the car up from the dealers. The second one, this last Sunday, was a good 200 miles - probably more - since the last calibration.
In short, hours after recalibration. As I say, the only common factor is high speed driving. Also checked if car pulling to one side, it isn't, also checked heat of wheels for any possible brake binding, there is none.
Weird. Not overly fussed but it is a bit annoying.
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On my limited knowledge of TPMS, I think it triggers a true alarm when it detects the pressure is 20% less than calibrated e.g. calibrated at 30psi the alarm will trigger when the tyre is at 24psi. This means, if you check no tyre pressures, all the tyres could go down to approximately 24psi before one of them triggers an alarm.
If you get an alarm above the 20% level, e.g. 28psi, it is almost certainly an error.
If you are 100% sure you have calibrated correctly and you get an alarm above, e.g. 24psi, then you may have a systemic failure.
Probably best to ask an expert rather than have a positive "false" alarm.
You could just just ignore TPMS and go back to the tried and tested method of checking the tyre pressures regularly which is what you'll have to do anyway to keep your tyres in good order.
I think it would be pretty obvious if you got a blow out and you would probably spot it well before the TPMS. TPMS, will tip you off with a slow puncture but you'd probably spot that too. (Another case of newer is not necessarily better).
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On my limited knowledge of TPMS, I think it triggers a true alarm when it detects the pressure is 20% less than calibrated e.g. calibrated at 30psi the alarm will trigger when the tyre is at 24psi. This means, if you check no tyre pressures, all the tyres could go down to approximately 24psi before one of them triggers an alarm.
If you get an alarm above the 20% level, e.g. 28psi, it is almost certainly an error.
If you are 100% sure you have calibrated correctly and you get an alarm above, e.g. 24psi, then you may have a systemic failure.
Probably best to ask an expert rather than have a positive "false" alarm.
You could just just ignore TPMS and go back to the tried and tested method of checking the tyre pressures regularly which is what you'll have to do anyway to keep your tyres in good order.
I think it would be pretty obvious if you got a blow out and you would probably spot it well before the TPMS. TPMS, will tip you off with a slow puncture but you'd probably spot that too. (Another case of newer is not necessarily better).
The Jazz system is not a direct pressure measuring system. It is an indirect rolling circumference comparison system. If the system detects a change of rotational speed in one wheel relative to the other three at the last calibration, it will trigger an alarm....no psi values involved.
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I heard what you are saying. Read equivalent of 20% less than the calibrated rating. The effect is the same. Examples given only for clarity.
As a matter of interest- What happens when you get wheel spin? Does that set up a TPMS alarm?
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You could just just ignore TPMS and go back to the tried and tested method of checking the tyre pressures regularly which is what you'll have to do anyway to keep your tyres in good order.
TPMS will tip you off with a slow puncture but you'd probably spot that too. (Another case of newer is not necessarily better).
OK understand about your using psi for clarity, though it might mislead some into wrong impression.
Couple of comments about your points above:
1. It is very difficult to "just ignore the TPMS warning", as it is very prominent and can't be dismissed or turned off.
2. You are right that it will tip you off about a slow puncture. That is what started this whole thread, because the the system alerted me without my detecting anything wrong. It was a rear tyre so might have been noticeable if it had been a front.
I suspect the system is more sensitive than the equivalent of 20% pressure. When I have nothing better to do I might try a bit of controlled deflation!
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As a matter of interest- What happens when you get wheel spin? Does that set up a TPMS alarm?
I suspect the answer is something to with time. Wheel spin does not occur for more than a second or so. I would expect the TPMS system to be set up not to react to speed mismatches which lasted for short duration such as wheelspin.
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If you are 100% sure you have calibrated correctly and you get an alarm above, e.g. 24psi, then you may have a systemic failure.
Probably best to ask an expert rather than have a positive "false" alarm.
You could just just ignore TPMS and go back to the tried and tested method of checking the tyre pressures regularly which is what you'll have to do anyway to keep your tyres in good order.
I think it would be pretty obvious if you got a blow out and you would probably spot it well before the TPMS. TPMS, will tip you off with a slow puncture but you'd probably spot that too. (Another case of newer is not necessarily better).
I guess that's a good way of looking at it. I check my pressures regularly in any event so, if this system isn't working, it's just like having all the cars I've ever had in my life which didn't have the system.
The downside, however, is the very hard to ignore huge picture of a tyre in the information binnacle. You can switch this off by toggling with the buttons on the steering wheel leaving a small picture of a tyre elsewhere. The big tyre comes back, though, whenever you restart the car so it is a PITA.
It's got 2 years new car warranty left so it's going in if it comes on again after my latest reset (always assuming there is no puncture lol).
Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
Yes. Another EU regulation, in force since November 2014.
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
At a similar stage of my Mk3 ownership...a few months and two false warnings.....I felt the same. But now, after 26,000 miles, one genuine warning and no more false warnings, I am glad to have it.
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
At a similar stage of my Mk3 ownership...a few months and two false warnings.....I felt the same. But now, after 26,000 miles, one genuine warning and no more false warnings, I am glad to have it.
Odd, I had two false alarms in the early days, probably self inflicted, nothing since.
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
Yes. Another EU regulation, in force since November 2014.
Weird as it may seem, it's actually a UN regulation and applies worldwide.
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Weird as it may seem, it's actually a UN regulation and applies worldwide.
I couldn't find a link to that. Can you post? I got my info here:
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/obligatory-tpms-a-larger-expense-for-owners-of-new-cars (https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/obligatory-tpms-a-larger-expense-for-owners-of-new-cars)
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
Yes. Another EU regulation, in force since November 2014.
Intended to save lives. It would have been introduced by the UK government with or without the EU. Assuming that the UK government cared about its citizens.
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Weird as it may seem, it's actually a UN regulation and applies worldwide.
I couldn't find a link to that. Can you post? I got my info here:
https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/obligatory-tpms-a-larger-expense-for-owners-of-new-cars (https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/obligatory-tpms-a-larger-expense-for-owners-of-new-cars)
found a bit more, it was originally UN but had to harmonized (complicated in the usual EU way) into EU law.
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2018/wp29grrf/GRRF-86-17e.pdf
The reason the TPMS can only be reset when car is stopped with handbrake on is to stop people resetting an active alarm on the move. In USA Honda have a 'reset TPMS' button on the dash, but I still think car has to have engine stopped and handbrake on (at least they don't have to scroll through menus to do it).
My wife would not have a clue how to reset the alarm on her car, as I guess 95% of women wouldn't (some may not even know what the symbol that flashes up is trying to tell them).
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Frankly if I could disable the thing I would do but I gather you have to have these things by law.
Yes. Another EU regulation, in force since November 2014.
Intended to save lives. It would have been introduced by the UK government with or without the EU. Assuming that the UK government cared about its citizens.
I think the idea of a pressure warning system is a good one so I have no quibble with the concept. They do need to be reliable though because false alarms totally negate the purpose of the feature. The next time mine goes off I will be assuming it's a false alarm - I'll do the checks but, unless the car's handling is causing concern, I won't make a special effort to stop.
They do seem to be troublesome - not just Honda. Plenty of stuff on all sorts of forums. The frustrating thing seems to be a plethora of stories where people go into the dealership and they can find nothing wrong.
So, on balance, if it were possible, I'd still have the thing disabled.
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... a plethora of stories where people go into the dealership and they can find nothing wrong.
A dealer will be comparing system performance against how it’s designed to work, so if he reports “no fault found”, you have to conclude one of three things:
1. It’s working as designed, but the design (hardware &/or software) is wrong. That seems unlikely to me given the significance of this system for safety, plus it’s basically an add-on to the ABS which also will have been critically reviewed. Not to mention a fair number of people who don’t seem to have the problem.
Or ...
2. It’s not working as designed and the dealer is incompetent if he can’t find the fault. Definitely a possibility, but it does suggest all the dealers are equally incompetent which seems unlikely.
Or ...
3. The system is working correctly and is detecting a genuine asymmetry between the wheels. The asymmetry may only occur in certain conditions, it may or may not be a pressure difference, and if it is it may not be significant enough to worry about or even be detectable using typical DIY tools, but it must be there.
Which of those is the most likely ? Take your pick, but the Honest John queries posted earlier suggest the last one.
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I don't think asymmetry between wheels is a problem as long as it is there when system is calibrated, otherwise a car with some nearly bald tyres and some brand new tyres would never achieve calibration. I don't think every wheel has to be rotating at same exact speed, just if their rotation changes by a certain critical amount from the value the system has stored for it. I have had TPMS alarm after replacing worn tyres with new ones, so bringing the wheel rotation speed 'more equal than it was when calibrated' actually caused it to alarm. I don't think ABS system is basically flawed, but some tweaks (spectrum analysis for instance to detect if all tyres are under inflated) may have complicated things.
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I don't think asymmetry between wheels is a problem as long as it is there when system is calibrated, otherwise a car with some nearly bald tyres and some brand new tyres would never achieve calibration. I don't think every wheel has to be rotating at same exact speed, just if their rotation changes by a certain critical amount from the value the system has stored for it. I have had TPMS alarm after replacing worn tyres with new ones, so bringing the wheel rotation speed 'more equal than it was when calibrated' actually caused it to alarm. I don't think ABS system is basically flawed, but some tweaks (spectrum analysis for instance to detect if all tyres are under inflated) may have complicated things.
OK, maybe loose wording on my part. By "asymmetry" I meant "a difference between wheels that has developed after calibration". So if one wheel has a rotational speed, or pressure, that is outside the differential limits set during calibration, then that is an asymmetry.
My point was that if a system has been checked and proved to be functioning correctly, then an alarm can only indicate a genuine asymmetry somewhere ... because that's what the system is designed to detect. The driver might interpret this as a "false" alarm, but it isn't really ... it's a genuine alarm but may not be significant.
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So, and bear with my lack of engineering knowledge, if an asymmetry is present, it would trigger the alarm. If the system is then recalibrated, the calibration will take account of the asymmetry (as per Culzean's example of bald and new tyres)?
This is interesting. It may be that, on the first recalibration, I didn't ensure all the tyres were completely even - ie both fronts at 33psi and both rears at 32psi. This could have triggered the second "false" (if, indeed it was false) alarm. 200 miles later (give or take) a period of fast driving exaggerates the pressure difference (although surely all tyres would rise in pressure) and triggers "false" alarm number 2.
Given the extreme care I have gone to in order to have the pressures dead right, if it goes off again the system must be faulty?
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Based on my own experience, and by all accounts, others on this forum, I think the "false" alarms are most common with recently fitted tyres. I have not had an alarm for well over a year now, and the tyres have covered 22,000 miles. If I'm right, some asymmetry may arise as the tyres bed in.
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Based on my own experience, and by all accounts, others on this forum, I think the "false" alarms are most common with recently fitted tyres. I have not had an alarm for well over a year now, and the tyres have covered 22,000 miles. If I'm right, some asymmetry may arise as the tyres bed in.
This would explain why Deeps and I both had false alarms very early in our ownership and not again.
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Based on my own experience, and by all accounts, others on this forum, I think the "false" alarms are most common with recently fitted tyres. I have not had an alarm for well over a year now, and the tyres have covered 22,000 miles. If I'm right, some asymmetry may arise as the tyres bed in.
This would explain why Deeps and I both had false alarms very early in our ownership and not again.
Same happened to me when I first got the car. And again when I had new front tyres fitted. So the theory could be sound.
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Based on my own experience, and by all accounts, others on this forum, I think the "false" alarms are most common with recently fitted tyres. I have not had an alarm for well over a year now, and the tyres have covered 22,000 miles. If I'm right, some asymmetry may arise as the tyres bed in.
This would explain why Deeps and I both had false alarms very early in our ownership and not again.
Same happened to me when I first got the car. And again when I had new front tyres fitted. So the theory could be sound.
I pick up my new Jazz on Monday, I will let you know!
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Given the extreme care I have gone to in order to have the pressures dead right, if it goes off again the system must be faulty?
Whilst I don't doubt that you have been as careful as you reasonably can be, the fact remains that you are (probably) using a pressure gauge of unknown accuracy. Others have been dismissive of my idea that gauge accuracy might be a factor, but I have yet to see a convincing argument to demonstrate that any individual pressure reading might not be anywhere within the accuracy band of the gauge, and hence that there might be minor undetected differences between wheels.
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[ hence that there might be minor undetected differences between wheels.
Minor differences should not trigger the alarm, especially if those 'minor differences' are present when system is calibrated.
I guess there may be a software update issued for MK3 Jazz TPMS soon, the systems on our Civic and MK2 are trouble free and do work well (they know the difference when a new tyre is fitted to replace one with 3mm of tread, also when slow punctures present the alarm works with 4 to 5 psi pressure loss).
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[ hence that there might be minor undetected differences between wheels.
Minor differences should not trigger the alarm, especially if those 'minor differences' are present when system is calibrated.
I guess there may be a software update issued for MK3 Jazz TPMS soon, the systems on our Civic and MK2 are trouble free and do work well (they know the difference when a new tyre is fitted to replace one with 3mm of tread, also when slow punctures present the alarm works with 4 to 5 psi pressure loss).
A software update depends on the scale of the problem, a few people having a few false alarms and tens of thousands of Jazzes not causing a problem worth reporting to Honda is not going to bother Honda too much. When Honda's customer service phone lines are getting hundreds of calls a month and the dealers start complaining about the grief they are getting from customers about problems it might get their attention.
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Whilst I don't doubt that you have been as careful as you reasonably can be, the fact remains that you are (probably) using a pressure gauge of unknown accuracy. Others have been dismissive of my idea that gauge accuracy might be a factor, but I have yet to see a convincing argument to demonstrate that any individual pressure reading might not be anywhere within the accuracy band of the gauge, and hence that there might be minor undetected differences between wheels.
My pressure gauge is guaranteed to be within 2%. At 35 psig than is 0.7 psig. If, as you insist, I set tyre to 35 psig, and it can read 34.3 for one tyre and 35.7 for another (1.4 psig total difference), and TPMS cannot cope with that variance, then the TPMS system is cr*p and not fit for purpose.
We checked gauges against a large air receiver, far larger capacity than a tyre, and over a number of measurements the reading was repeatable. And repeatability is more important in manufacturing process control than absolute accuracy.
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Given the extreme care I have gone to in order to have the pressures dead right, if it goes off again the system must be faulty?
Whilst I don't doubt that you have been as careful as you reasonably can be, the fact remains that you are (probably) using a pressure gauge of unknown accuracy. Others have been dismissive of my idea that gauge accuracy might be a factor, but I have yet to see a convincing argument to demonstrate that any individual pressure reading might not be anywhere within the accuracy band of the gauge, and hence that there might be minor undetected differences between wheels.
My thinking is this. The gauge I used is a new one on a Michelin foot pump. They say it is guaranteed to + or - 1 psi per tyre. It will, presumably, give the same reading, even if slightly inaccurate, per tyre. In short if I inflate the tyre to 33 psi and then inflate the other tyre to 33 psi using the same gauge and pump, then both tyres will be at the same pressure. I struggle with the idea that it will be more inaccurate on one tyre than the other.
Now what seems to be happening is the system, after recalibration, is quite happy for 200 miles or so and then activates randomly. Although I have been extra careful this time, even the last time the tyres were all pretty much even in pressure. Nothing had changed since the calibration 200 miles previously.
Which is why Jocko is right. If it continues to do this, or if it is so sensitive it will fire off if, say, a piece of grit lodges in one tyre and not another, then it absolutely is not fit for purpose. It becomes worse than useless in that you will be tempted to regard any alarm as a false one.
If it goes off again, my conclusion will be that the system is faulty (unless I actually do get a puncture!)
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Found this:
https://www.tpmscentre.co.uk/pages/general-information
First section states:
"TPMS stands for Tyre Pressure Monitoring System, a safety feature that continually monitors a vehicles' tyres and alerts the driver to changes in tyre pressure. The changes in tyre pressure can be detected by either Direct or Indirect means but both methods will, as a minimum, illuminate a warning light on the vehicle dashboard display and sound an audible alert when 25% deflation has occurred."
(Bold italics are mine.)
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Every site I visit quotes 25%.
https://www.tireindustry.org/tire-pressure-monitoring-system (https://www.tireindustry.org/tire-pressure-monitoring-system)
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312219/the-real-benefit-of-tpms (http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312219/the-real-benefit-of-tpms)
https://www.schradersensors.com/en/driver-education/what-do-when-your-tpms-light-turns (https://www.schradersensors.com/en/driver-education/what-do-when-your-tpms-light-turns)
And more.
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Put two new rear tyres on my Civic a week ago, fitter checked that all four tyres were the same pressure, within 5 minutes of leaving the deflation warning came on which I expected, initialised the calibration and drove for over half an hour malnly on rural roads just prior to where we were going the warning came on again, initialised it again and since then no further warnings.
The only other time it had come on was when I left the dealers when we bought the vehicle which I assumed was because they had adjusted the pressures, it also then took two attempts at intialising before it remained off.
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I suspect a fault. I check my pressures every couple of months and top them up every other time. In over two years of ownership I've only had the alarm go of twice and both times it was legitimate (one time I forgot to reset it, the other time a pothole on the A34 triggered it).
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Put two new rear tyres on my Civic a week ago, fitter checked that all four tyres were the same pressure, within 5 minutes of leaving the deflation warning came on which I expected, initialised the calibration and drove for over half an hour malnly on rural roads just prior to where we were going the warning came on again, initialised it again and since then no further warnings.
The only other time it had come on was when I left the dealers when we bought the vehicle which I assumed was because they had adjusted the pressures, it also then took two attempts at intialising before it remained off.
This is consistent with the idea that newly-fitted tyres take a while to settle down, triggering the alarm as they do so.
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Every site I visit quotes 25%.
https://www.tireindustry.org/tire-pressure-monitoring-system (https://www.tireindustry.org/tire-pressure-monitoring-system)
http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312219/the-real-benefit-of-tpms (http://www.moderntiredealer.com/article/312219/the-real-benefit-of-tpms)
https://www.schradersensors.com/en/driver-education/what-do-when-your-tpms-light-turns (https://www.schradersensors.com/en/driver-education/what-do-when-your-tpms-light-turns)
And more.
Interesting. The UNECE site (dated 2010) says (Para 5.3.1) says 20%. Even so, whether is 20% or 25%, it is quite a lot on a tyre pressure of 30 psi (ie 6 psi or 7.5psi). I wouldn't argue the figures except to say that is a noticeably large amount of pressure loss.
https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r064r1e.pdf
There was quite a bit of discussion in UNECE about what to use. Less than 20% would risk more false reports with the risk that users would begin to ignore the warning. More than 25% rather negates the idea.
The attached report in 2016 from European Federation for Transport and Environment AISBL is limited but relevant to the topic and perturbing!
https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/failure-indirect-tyre-pressure-monitoring-systems-puts-drivers-and-road-users-risk
Quality pressure gauges are calibrated and supplied with a Calibration Certificate by the manufacturer. It is the gauge that is calibrated for accuracy against a standard not it's ability to vary from one reading to another.
https://www.pclairtechnology.com/products/tyre-care-equipment/tyre-pressure-gauges/tyre-safety-pack/
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I suspect a fault. I check my pressures every couple of months and top them up every other time. In over two years of ownership I've only had the alarm go of twice and both times it was legitimate (one time I forgot to reset it, the other time a pothole on the A34 triggered it).
I'm definitely of that mind myself. If it goes off again and there is nothing wrong with the tyre pressures, it must be faulty, there is no other reasonable explanation. The information about the trigger points (thanks Jocko) is crucial here.
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It seems to me that the more gadgets that get fitted to cars the less attention people pay to everything. I am waiting for the Alexa app that will blow your tyres up for you "Alexa check my car tyres and blow them up, Oh and check the tread depth as well because I am too lazy to look" . I still look at tyres and give sidewalls a quick press on our drive before every journey, and if car has been parked anywhere for a while I will eyeball every tyre before getting into car.
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I still look at tyres and give sidewalls a quick press on our drive before every journey, and if car has been parked anywhere for a while I will eyeball every tyre before getting into car.
I hope that airline pilots do much the same!
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It seems to me that the more gadgets that get fitted to cars the less attention people pay to everything. I am waiting for the Alexa app that will blow your tyres up for you "Alexa check my car tyres and blow them up, Oh and check the tread depth as well because I am too lazy to look" . I still look at tyres and give sidewalls a quick press on our drive before every journey, and if car has been parked anywhere for a while I will eyeball every tyre before getting into car.
The sad fact is that most people hardly ever inspect their tyres. I'd even suggest that the vast majority rely on their MoT or service to point out issues. So that's once, maybe twice a year they get checked. There is a clear need for an automated system that can monitor tyre condition.
Given enough interest and for a price such a system ought to be easy to implement. Proper tyre pressure measurement by the vehicle and led/laser scanning of the tyre surface (side walls included) is technically possible.
As long as the system is reliable I think it could be a major safety feature. Checking tyres manually is like changing gear. It's something a computer could do to save us the bother.
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I agree with andruec on this one. Ideally you want to be able to access the pressure in each tyre from the drivers seat. If I'm not very much mistaken you can on a Nissan which has a genuine TPMS with individual sensors relating to each tyre. The Honda system is a Deflation Warning System and doesn't specify which tyre is faulty. Has this been adopted to cut costs?
And, I hardly need to add, these systems need to be robust and not prone to false alarms.
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I agree with andruec on this one. Ideally you want to be able to access the pressure in each tyre from the drivers seat. If I'm not very much mistaken you can on a Nissan which has a genuine TPMS with individual sensors relating to each tyre. The Honda system is a Deflation Warning System and doesn't specify which tyre is faulty. Has this been adopted to cut costs?
And, I hardly need to add, these systems need to be robust and not prone to false alarms.
Many of the car makers use indirect (ABS) TPMS, the shear faffing around with sensors and potential damage to sensors when fitting tyres, not to mention people who change wheels for the winter and summer (a lot of European countries) need more sensors (at a cost) and they have to be programmed in (maybe at a cost as well). Any car over 8 maybe 10 years (max) will need new sensors as well as the batteries are part of the sensor and cannot be replaced.
Quote........
Since factory installation of TPMS became mandatory in November 2014 for all new passenger vehicles in the EU, various iTPMS have been type-approved according to UN Regulation R64. Examples for this are most of the VW group models, but also numerous Volvo, Opel, Ford, Mazda, PSA, FIAT and Renault models. iTPMS are quickly gaining market shares in the EU and are expected to become the dominating TPMS technology in the near future.
iTPMS are regarded as inaccurate by some due to their nature, but given that simple ambient temperature variations can lead to pressure variations of the same magnitude as the legal detection thresholds, many vehicle manufacturers and customers value the ease of use and tire/wheel change higher than the theoretical accuracy of dTPMS.
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I wonder if the LED/laser reading could also be used to detect pressure changes? It probably isn't beyond the realm of possibilities for a computer to monitor the shape of the tyre and as well as detecting low tread depth, detect shape changes indicating low pressure.
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I wonder if the LED/laser reading could also be used to detect pressure changes? It probably isn't beyond the realm of possibilities for a computer to monitor the shape of the tyre and as well as detecting low tread depth, detect shape changes indicating low pressure.
Anywhere around wheel arch area optical sensors are going to be continually bombarded and coated up with dirt and cr4p off the road.
Cars would be a lot safer if basic maintenance and observation were part of the driving test,( has been since 2017 apparently but don't know how deep it goes) at least prospective drivers would have some idea about how a potentially lethal piece of equipment like a vehicle works instead of treating it like a toaster or other household appliance.
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I am 100% in agreeance with Culzean, it does appear that instead of producing a vehicle that does the job it's intended to do it appears adding all these bits and bobs is just to make it more attractive to the modern lazy person. What is wrong with checking the tyres on a car, after all experience soon shows if a tyre looks in need of some air, checking the tread and general state of the tyre is so so importance but I fear with things like the TPMS people will become so blaze about their tyres they will never ever check them. My favourite electrician who lives opposite has had a seriously deflated rear tyre on his Transit for days. Surely one would have thought he would notice the rear end being a little lively!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He gets tyre failures and advisories every year ( yes the Gov site on checking MOTs is very enlightening) and yet he still carries on regardless.
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I am 100% in agreeance with Culzean, it does appear that instead of producing a vehicle that does the job it's intended to do it appears adding all these bits and bobs is just to make it more attractive to the modern lazy person. What is wrong with checking the tyres on a car, after all experience soon shows if a tyre looks in need of some air, checking the tread and general state of the tyre is so so importance but I fear with things like the TPMS people will become so blaze about their tyres they will never ever check them. My favourite electrician who lives opposite has had a seriously deflated rear tyre on his Transit for days. Surely one would have thought he would notice the rear end being a little lively!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He gets tyre failures and advisories every year ( yes the Gov site on checking MOTs is very enlightening) and yet he still carries on regardless.
Many drivers still don't realise that an unroadworth tyre is 3 points and £2,500 PER TYRE .
quote ...
According to a new report a worrying gap in British motorists knowledge has emerged, which could land them a huge fine.
More than two-thirds of UK drivers don’t know the legal minimum tyre tread depth, according to new research.
The survey of motorists found that many drivers running the risk of a fine in excess of £2,500 and penalty points for being unaware of the limit.
In the UK the legal tyre depth limit is 1.6mm of tread across the central thee-quarters of the tyre.
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Reliability promotes neglect, I suppose there is some logic in "If it is as reliable as a toaster, treat it like one". Most of the current driving population have no concept of the bygone days when if you didn't know in detail how a car worked you would not get very far.
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Reliability promotes neglect, I suppose there is some logic in "If it is as reliable as a toaster, treat it like one". Most of the current driving population have no concept of the bygone days when if you didn't know in detail how a car worked you would not get very far.
A toaster wont normally kill people if it goes wrong, it will either not make toast, burn the toast or trip the earth leakage CB. An average passenger car is between 1 and 3 tonnes of metal traveling at speed in the company of other vehicles and pedestrians. The lack of knowledge about even the most basic things like brakes and tyres amongst drivers is frightening.
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I wonder if the LED/laser reading could also be used to detect pressure changes? It probably isn't beyond the realm of possibilities for a computer to monitor the shape of the tyre and as well as detecting low tread depth, detect shape changes indicating low pressure.
Anywhere around wheel arch area optical sensors are going to be continually bombarded and coated up with dirt and cr4p off the road.
Cars would be a lot safer if basic maintenance and observation were part of the driving test,( has been since 2017 apparently but don't know how deep it goes) at least prospective drivers would have some idea about how a potentially lethal piece of equipment like a vehicle works instead of treating it like a toaster or other household appliance.
They'd be even safer if we reduced the human factor. The fact is that humans are failing miserably to look after their tyres. As you say humans have a dangerous tendency to trivialise and ignore dangers. Computers don't and I'm sure sensors could be developed that overcome the issue of mud and water.
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I was( ill health) retired 26 yrs ago. I do not think the situation has changed. In my time there was no authorised tyre depth gauge and the only way to get a tyre conviction was if there was NO tread over more than three quarters of the tyre width. There were many tyres well under the legal limit but could not be prosecuted, which as usual makes a mockery of the law apart from being down right dangerous.
Despite being retired I still look at tyres and I am deeply concerned about the dangerous state of many tyres and a lot of these dangerous tyres are on high end luxury cars capable of very high speed. If they want to kill them selves get on with it but often it is these cars that cross reservations/crash barriers and kill/maim innocent people.
It's too late to impose points and hefty fines after the event.
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Good points auntyneddy. I think we mentioned this on another thread but I am an inveterate inspector of other peoples tyres and you see some shockers.
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What amazes me is how many vehicles with bad tyres park with the wheels turned out. As if they are trying to show them off. If my tyres were dodgy the last thing I would do is make them obvious to anyone passing.
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Good points auntyneddy. I think we mentioned this on another thread but I am an inveterate inspector of other peoples tyres and you see some shockers.
I wonder if some peoples tyres get prematurely bald because they abuse them during parking - the number of people (mainly seems to be women) i see when parking or getting into / out of confined spaces that turn the wheels from lock to lock while stationary, never even attempting to get the wheels rolling before moving them. It is pretty hard on the steering mechanism as well.
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Have a look at the DVLA website pages that give a cars MoT history. A lot of the failures and advisories are for tyre faults. If the previous owner didn't look after the tyres what is the rest of the car like?
Vic.
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Latest update.
Another false alarm after a period of 70 mph on the motorway today. About 180 miles since last recalibration. Tyre pressures all slightly raised because of the heat but all even.
Since the last recalibration I have spoken to my pal whose Fiesta does this all the time. On another online forum - nothing to do with cars - a conversation about over-reliance on computers generally brought up a case of a Skoda Yeti which does this repeatedly. In the case of the Skoda, the dealer can't sort it and the owner has given up. He just recalibrates every time it does it.
Now I know people will say they've had no trouble with theirs but the false alarm thing is rife. You only need to look on the internet.
If only I could disable the damn thing! I'll be booking it in after the holiday but you just know they won't or can't sort it.
PS
Just another bit of googling. The light coming on after motorway driving is a very common theme in relation to the Honda system. There is something about high speed motorway driving that triggers the fault. Not found anybody who has had the problem cured - ie a specific fix.
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Don't fall into the "Its all over the internet" trap. There were 255,600 odd fiestas sold last year, and that was only Europe, what proportion have this problem?
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< sticks head above parapet again >
This has been posted before but maybe it got lost in the debate about accuracy of pressure gauges (which I have no desire to reopen, let’s just agree to disagree).
Not found anybody who has had the problem cured - ie a specific fix.
There are people claiming a cure. In these two Honest John posts the writer claims to have personally had the problem and to have fixed it by adjusting tyre pressures:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/69714/honda-jazz-tyre-deflation-system---is-there-a-problem-
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/59369/tyre-deflation-warning-system-malfunction
I have no axe to grind re HJ or whether he/they might be considered a reliable source of advice.
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Don't fall into the "Its all over the internet" trap. There were 255,600 odd fiestas sold last year, and that was only Europe, what proportion have this problem?
Fair point and, normally, I'd agree with you but the evidence is not just the internet. I'm getting this problem anecdotally from a number of people. My sampling method would not qualify as particularly robust but I think the tyre monitoring system is a real problem across a range of manufacturers.
Indeed, you can now buy devices to "cheat" the system - in short to disable it. The free market has sensed an opportunity and moved right on in.
If these systems were robust, no such market would exist.
They are not fit for purpose.
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Don't fall into the "Its all over the internet" trap. There were 255,600 odd fiestas sold last year, and that was only Europe, what proportion have this problem?
I have had a Fiesta Ecoboost from new, it's just over 3 years old now. The only time it has been it has been back to the garage is for its annual services. I think it's a great little car and I have never had a false alarm from the TPS. It has been the number one best seller in the UK for the past couple of years and there are many good reasons for this. My annual average MPG for this car is virtually the same as my previous Mk 2 Jazz CVT.
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I must admit I was impressed with my Pal's Fiesta (he is less impressed with the TPMS).
I know most of these work OK but I would put the question - what is an acceptable level of reliability for these systems? Let's, for the sake of argument, say that 90% of these systems work. I regard that as unacceptable. Try googling clutch failure on nearly new Hondas and you will get virtually no responses. Why, because the clutches are fit for purpose. Google Deflation Warning System or TPMS and you find a tsunami of negative stories and a whole industry developing around methods of defeating or disabling these systems.
They are unreliable period and you have to ask why a legal requirement was put in place before a robust technology was available. We got on without these things until 2014 for heavens sake. Why do we have to put up with them now and the inability of the manufacturers to come up with solutions when they fail?
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I still suspect a fault. Whilst I tend to bimble along motorways at 60mph I have driven several hundred miles at that speed and had no false alarms. I have also on occasion driven quite a long way (about 60 miles) at around 80mph and not had any false alarms.
Whether that qualifies as 'driving at high speed' I don't know.
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There's definitely a fault.
But, unfortunately, I can find no evidence of any dealer fixing the problem. I'll see how my dealer gets on. I am not optimistic hence my desire to disable the system.
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http://www.mattcastruccihonda.com/blog/how-to-reset-the-tpms-light-in-your-honda/
This kind of proves my point. A Honda dealer in Ohio admitting that this is "an annoyingly common issue for Honda owners."
This is global - it's not just me!
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They are unreliable period ...
I beg to differ but I have done over 30,000 in mine now, and other that having to re-calibrate it two or three times in the week after is was new and again two or three times in the week after I had the front tyres changed, I have had no issues whatsoever.
If mine can be like that, then they all can. If yours is not, then you have a fault and should take it back to the dealers under warranty.
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They are unreliable period ...
I beg to differ but I have done over 30,000 in mine now, and other that having to re-calibrate it two or three times in the week after is was new and again two or three times in the week after I had the front tyres changed, I have had no issues whatsoever.
If mine can be like that, then they all can. If yours is not, then you have a fault and should take it back to the dealers under warranty.
Which is what I'm going to do.
But there is little or no chance that they will identify a cure. I've researched this to some extent and there is no evidence of a fix anywhere. Once you've got this problem you have it for the duration of your ownership of the car.
On reliability you may well have a system that works. I don't and the evidence both anecdotal and on the internet suggests that this is a common problem. If it is a common problem then it is legitimate to say that the system is not fit for purpose. The fact that a majority of owners don't experience the problem is no evidence of reliability if a significant number of people have an issue. For me, to be reliable, a system should have a small failure rate, almost unmeasurable.
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https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf
Another damning report about these systems.
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That is a damming indictment of TPMS but in the other direction from the issue you are experiencing. These test show TPMS not working when you get a flat. Just glad my car is too old to require TPMS.
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https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf
Another damning report about these systems.
You seem to be desperate to convince us there is a huge problem when you are the only one here with it.
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So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?
Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?
And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.
I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.
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So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?
Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?
And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.
I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.
I have some sympathy with your view. This type of system should never fail or give a false reading.
It is after all a safety device which should/ must be 101% reliable and 100% idiot proof.
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https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_11_TPMS_report_final.pdf
Another damning report about these systems.
You seem to be desperate to convince us there is a huge problem when you are the only one here with it.
Maybe they changed something on the MK3 but the system on my Civic and her indoors MK2 work well, they tell you when tyres have been replaced and I have had slow punctures on the civic which it has picked up before 25psi - and no false alarms. On the Civic the TPMS tells me when I have changed from winters to summers or the other way around, but checking the speed on satnav it is hard to see any difference between satnav and speedo between the two sets of tyres. The Jazz does not seem to notice change from summers to winters (maybe tyre diameters are exactly the same) but will alarm with new tyres.
There is a new thing on ABS TPMS called spectrum analysis which is supposed to alert the system when all tyres are under-inflated and I think it checks for any minute variation in the arrival of ABS pulses which can happen when tyres are low on pressure - almost like the tyre is not rotating smoothly. Maybe the system is getting too clever and more prone to false alarms from road surface imperfections.
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So are you saying that these systems are robust, fault free and that the evidence of multiple failures are just a figment of a fevered imagination? Have you checked the evidence on the internet?
Is the fact that an industry has developed to enable people to disable these systems of no consequence?
And what makes you so sure your system is working? There is abundant evidence that these systems do not always report actual punctures.
I repeat, these systems are unreliable and should not be mandatory.
I have some sympathy with your view. This type of system should never fail or give a false reading.
It is after all a safety device which should/ must be 101% reliable and 100% idiot proof.
I see some relevance to the future adoption of autonomous vehicles. If a simple system like this is problematic then what hope is there for more complex systems?
Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.
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Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.
This is probably an unhelpfully late comment, but why not try to get it to the dealer before recalibrating, so he can actually check for himself the tyre pressures are OK whilst the warning is displayed ?
Also I believe the TPMS system must be functioning in order to pass an MOT. So if the dealer says “no fault found”, ask him if it would pass an MOT in that condition. If he’s doubtful about that then you would be justified in having a conversation about rejection (if you so wish) because the car is clearly not of the expected quality.
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Anyway - recalibrated again and I'll speak to the dealer tomorrow.
This is probably an unhelpfully late comment, but why not try to get it to the dealer before recalibrating, so he can actually check for himself the tyre pressures are OK whilst the warning is displayed ?
Also I believe the TPMS system must be functioning in order to pass an MOT. So if the dealer says “no fault found”, ask him if it would pass an MOT in that condition. If he’s doubtful about that then you would be justified in having a conversation about rejection (if you so wish) because the car is clearly not of the expected quality.
Excellent point Colin. Having recalibrated it I did think (too late) that I should have left the warning light on (helpfully by toggling one of the "I" buttons on the steering wheel you can get rid of the big tyre and just have a little one in the left hand dial). I'll discuss it on the phone and if they advise me to bring it in when the light is on then that's what I'll do. I know how to get it to play up - quick burst on the motorway and on it comes!
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I think that it is only a TPMs system failure that would fail an MOT. Don't think it would fail for a light that resets on calibration. I think calibration would have to fail too.
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I think that it is only a TPMs system failure that would fail an MOT. Don't think it would fail for a light that resets on calibration. I think calibration would have to fail too.
I suspect that is a grey area. The MOT tester’s responsibility is:
“Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2012 will be checked to make sure the tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS) MIL is working.”
(Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-parts-checked-at-an-mot/car-parts-checked-at-an-mot)
So if he’s presented with a vehicle where the TPMS Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) is sounding an alarm, does he conclude the system is working because it’s detected something, or does he conclude it’s not working because it’s clearly a false alarm ? I believe Peteo48’s view is that the system must have a fault which would logically be a fail at MOT. Because it’s unclear, hence my suggestion to ask the dealer for clarification about whether they would fail it. Of course you could just remember to reset immediately before the MOT and hope it doesn’t happen during the test ...
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“Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2012 will be checked to make sure the tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS) MIL is working.”
All that means is that when the ignition is first turned on, the TPMS light must light. As must the ABS, electronic power steering and airbag warning lights. No pulling bulbs (where that is possible) to disguise a fault.
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“Vehicles first used on or after 1 January 2012 will be checked to make sure the tyre pressure monitoring system (TPMS) MIL is working.”
All that means is that when the ignition is first turned on, the TPMS light must light. As must the ABS, electronic power steering and airbag warning lights. No pulling bulbs (where that is possible) to disguise a fault.
Ah, pulling. A great idea at a nightclub but rarely a good idea with bulbs, fuses or on a golf course ;)
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Just thinking out loud and bearing in mind Colin's suggestion about asking the garage if it is an MOT fail, I suppose it is possible that the car could give out genuine AND false alarms. One way to test would be to deflate one of the tyres by, say, 7 psi (around 20%) and see if it activates.
But then I look in the manual to read that the system doesn't operate at low speed. Don't fancy testing this theory out on the motorway!
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Spoke to service department today. Agreed I will book it in when the symbol next appears. The guy said it is a common problem!
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A couple of days ago I adjusted my tyre pressures, they were over inflated a bit from new. I initiated a calibration and have not had any alarms. I suspect my self inflicted alarms on my previous Jazz were a good learning experience.
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So my tyre pressure warning lights came on and on checking one tyre in need of air. All now pumped up to recommended pressure. But how to get the warniing lights to go away? >:(
Garage on phone, tells me setting in is in the deep reaches of touchscreen ( where you have to go to reset for summer time) but I cant find an appropriate spot. And garage tells me it needs to be done twice!! Yes need to get garage to do it but I am not convenient to one at the moment.
Advice anyone? Mark 3 Jazz here 2015
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Make sure you have the handbrake on or you won't see it.
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So my tyre pressure warning lights came on and on checking one tyre in need of air. All now pumped up to recommended pressure. But how to get the warniing lights to go away? >:(
Garage on phone, tells me setting in is in the deep reaches of touchscreen ( where you have to go to reset for summer time) but I cant find an appropriate spot. And garage tells me it needs to be done twice!! Yes need to get garage to do it but I am not convenient to one at the moment.
Advice anyone? Mark 3 Jazz here 2015
The tyre warning has to be recalibrated, this is done by scrolling through the pages of the right hand display with the buttons on the lower right of the steering wheel. When you get to the page showing a square with an arrow press select ( the center button ) then scroll to the deflation warning screen. Press select. Scroll to initialise. Press select. Then scroll to the square and arrow and select to get back to the normal display
Edit
As ColinS said Handbrake must be on.
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So my tyre pressure warning lights came on and on checking one tyre in need of air. All now pumped up to recommended pressure. But how to get the warniing lights to go away? >:(
Garage on phone, tells me setting in is in the deep reaches of touchscreen ( where you have to go to reset for summer time) but I cant find an appropriate spot. And garage tells me it needs to be done twice!! Yes need to get garage to do it but I am not convenient to one at the moment.
Advice anyone? Mark 3 Jazz here 2015
Visual aid here:
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Excellent demo. Bit of a palaver though.
The problem with computers is that you need a brain to operate them.
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Excellent demo. Bit of a palaver though.
The problem with computers is that you need a brain to operate them.
All you need is a grandchild! :-)
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Yeah, I think peteo48 can do it blindfolded with a diving belt over his arm by now :(.
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Do all cars fitted with the TPMS have false reading problems or only Honda ? It looks like it could become one of those systems where everyone,including dealers, will say "Oh they all do that."
Is it another dismal failing in Honda's 'infotainment' System?
Vic.
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My EX Navi, is a month old, now. Not had any problems..... Yet!
Yesterday, I inflated to, "holiday load", pressures, and re-calibrated. For the first time.
I find it is easier to photograph the appropriate pages, to my phone. Rather than have the book, in the car with me.
(https://s25.postimg.cc/b5gckfy1b/IMG_20180518_181738761_HDR.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://s25.postimg.cc/asoye981r/IMG_20180518_182418760_HDR.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Works for me! ;)
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Do all cars fitted with the TPMS have false reading problems or only Honda ? It looks like it could become one of those systems where everyone,including dealers, will say "Oh they all do that."
Is it another dismal failing in Honda's 'infotainment' System?
Vic.
My tyre alarms have been self inflicted, I don't think Honda or any other manufacturer has an unreliable tyre warning system. It is a mandatory requirement, I don't think the manufacturers would get away with an unreliable system. I have not seen a a big problem reported in the motoring media although I will accept there maybe a few faults on individual cars.
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Garage on phone, tells me setting in is in the deep reaches of touchscreen
NOT the touchscreen....but you have probably discovered that by now.
I'd give the garage a bit of "polite feedback" about that fake info.
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Do all cars fitted with the TPMS have false reading problems or only Honda ? It looks like it could become one of those systems where everyone,including dealers, will say "Oh they all do that."
Is it another dismal failing in Honda's 'infotainment' System?
Vic.
I don't think it's a specifically Honda issue. Honda's system is different to that used by many others in that it relies on the ABS sensors picking up a change in diameter and thereby triggering the alarm. That's why it's called a Deflation Warning System as opposed to the more common system whereby there is a sensor on each individual tyre. These sensors are battery powered and send a signal to the car when any individual tyre deflates by 20% or more. The advantage of this system over Honda's is that it can identify the exact tyre that it is at fault. The problem with this type is the batteries can go flat and/or the sensor fail. Repairs can be expensive.
I know we should take the internet with a huge degree of caution but there are a lot of forums, posts, youtube videos, Honest John enquiries etc etc reporting problems either with false alarms or the system failing in some way. Indeed you can now purchase devices to "defeat" the system. If these systems were robust and trouble free no such market would exist.
I guess it depends on how you define reliability. Let's say 90% of drivers never experience a problem. That leaves 10% who do. What I'm trying to say is that faults with these systems are not uncommon.
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Here is one such system on the market to defeat the tyre pressure monitoring system. I guess these are illegal!
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The TPMS defeat systems would probably be an MOT fail under the new MOT rules introduced yesterday. Much like the DPF removals. This saga reminds me of the DPF disaster stories when they were introduced. I owned DPF fitted cars for ten years, never had a problem or saw the motorways littered with dead diesels either. Maybe I am just lucky but I am yet to have a lottery win!
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The TPMS defeat systems would probably be an MOT fail under the new MOT rules introduced yesterday. Much like the DPF removals. This saga reminds me of the DPF disaster stories when they were introduced. I owned DPF fitted cars for ten years, never had a problem or saw the motorways littered with dead diesels either. Maybe I am just lucky but I am yet to have a lottery win!
Definitely an MOT fail. I guess you would have to remove it before the test! Neither of my 2 diesels had DPFs but my daughter's last car, a diesel Qashqai, did have one and it never gave her any trouble. Key here was she used the car as it was meant to be used - regular motorway work. An acquiantance of mine had loads of trouble with his though but self inflicted. He bought a diesel to do 3,000 miles per annum almost all of it round town!
To be fair to Honda, when I bought my Civic, they did ask me about driving style and specifically warned me off diesel.
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Is it another dismal failing in Honda's 'infotainment' System?
TBH I have never had any false warnings of the tyre deflation system on either my Jazz which I had for three years from new or my present Civic, once initialised and set when pressures were checked or adjusted or new tyres were fitted I found the system appears to work without any problems.
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I am going to regret this but now two weeks since my last false alarm!
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I am going to regret this but now two weeks since my last false alarm!
Don't tamper with your tyres or the system!
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I did a run today that included all the previous triggers, warm weather and cruising at or near motorway speeds. No false alarm. Just looking at the extract from the handbook above and I may have missed out part of action 4. I am not sure I pressed SEL/RESET on the exit screen because you can just scroll right past it - the system allows you to do so. On the last recalibration I made sure I did it.
Not quite ready to eat humble pie yet but I won't complain if I have to!
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I did a run today that included all the previous triggers, warm weather and cruising at or near motorway speeds. No false alarm. Just looking at the extract from the handbook above and I may have missed out part of action 4. I am not sure I pressed SEL/RESET on the exit screen because you can just scroll right past it - the system allows you to do so. On the last recalibration I made sure I did it.
Not quite ready to eat humble pie yet but I won't complain if I have to!
If you had not done the recalibration properly I am sure the warning would not have been cancelled and the problem would have manifested itself straight away or at most after a few miles, not hundreds.
Don't get the knife and fork out just yet.
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I was just in my local Honda dealer and noticed the attached on the wall of the waiting area. Interesting that they've found it necessary to compose and display this, presumably they get lots of customer feedback about it.
Meanwhile I've never had a TPMS warning, despite regularly checking and adjusting tyre pressures. Makes me wonder if it's actually working !
Edit: sorry about the landscape format, it was portrait before I uploaded it and I don't see how to change it !
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This may save some neck pain ;)
I am surprised re-calibration would not take care to different tread wear on the axle.
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I am surprised re-calibration would not take care to different tread wear on the axle.
Perhaps, once the tyres warm up, there is a significant enough difference with uneven treads to trigger the warning, even after cold calibration.
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I am surprised re-calibration would not take care to different tread wear on the axle.
Perhaps, once the tyres warm up, there is a significant enough difference with uneven treads to trigger the warning, even after cold calibration.
I am now some miles and weeks and some motorway driving away from my last false alarm. I think it's clear from Mike and Colin have put up that the system is very sensitive. That may be a good, if somewhat annoying, thing because it will highlight small drops in pressure from, say, a slow puncture. My understanding is the systems that use a sensor on each wheel - a genuine TPMS as opposed to Honda's Deflation Warning System - typically don't trigger until a tyre has lost 20% of its pressure.
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After a two year gap I have just had the fourth tyre pressure alert on my car.
The first two were false warnings.
The third was genuine but I ignored it after the two false ones, and found a flat tyre next morning.
After the fourth one today, I checked the pressures and found one tyre 5psi down, and took it to a tyre place, who found a nail in the shoulder.
So this last warning the system did its job perfectly!
The journey was from the midlands to London and the warning came on as soon as I left the motorway and stopped at some lights. I guess the rotational speed difference was immediately more noticeable to the system at low speed.
Unfortunately The tyre place didn't have any Michelins so now I have three 37,000 miles Michelins, and one brand new Goodyear. Might replace the three Michelins with Goodyears when the time comes to get back to a matched set.
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Unfortunately The tyre place didn't have any Michelins so now I have three 37,000 miles Michelins, and one brand new Goodyear. Might replace the three Michelins with Goodyears when the time comes to get back to a matched set.
37000 sounds good for the Michelins. Have you swapped front and back to get to that mileage? I'm at 30,000 with 4 mm left on the front and more on the back. They are certainly lasting longer than the Dunlops I had on the Mk 2, perhaps partly because they are 10mm wider. Also, my mk2 was manual and I now have cvt, which in the 1.3 engine means gentler acceleration in most circumstances!
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Unfortunately The tyre place didn't have any Michelins so now I have three 37,000 miles Michelins, and one brand new Goodyear. Might replace the three Michelins with Goodyears when the time comes to get back to a matched set.
37000 sounds good for the Michelins. Have you swapped front and back to get to that mileage? I'm at 30,000 with 4 mm left on the front and more on the back. They are certainly lasting longer than the Dunlops I had on the Mk 2, perhaps partly because they are 10mm wider. Also, my mk2 was manual and I now have cvt, which in the 1.3 engine means gentler acceleration in most circumstances!
Yah, I posted a thread at the time about how the Dunlops on my Mk3 were unlikely to make 18k for me. I replaced them with a set of Michelins and they have done 18k and still have nearly 6mm on them.
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+ 1 for Michelins over the Dunlop SP2030s. My car has done 10,000 miles from new and even the fronts (Michelin ES all round) have over 6mm tread on them. When I bought my first Jazz, this had a tad over 10,000 miles on it and the Dunlops on the front were done after another 2,000 miles (done for me is down to 3mm).
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done for me is down to 3mm.
Same here. I also won't go into winter with less than 4mm.
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Unfortunately The tyre place didn't have any Michelins so now I have three 37,000 miles Michelins, and one brand new Goodyear. Might replace the three Michelins with Goodyears when the time comes to get back to a matched set.
37000 sounds good for the Michelins. Have you swapped front and back to get to that mileage? I'm at 30,000 with 4 mm left on the front and more on the back.
No I haven't swapped them around. The 37000 mile Michelin on the front is just over 3mm in the middle and 4mm at the edges. So I will replace this with another Goodyear soon to have matching at the front.
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Question about the calibration process:
The manual describes the process quite clearly and I have just checked all the pressures and done the "initialisation", and got the "Completed" message.
BUT I am not going to be driving the car for 24 hours. I believe the calibration process includes driving the car for 30 minutes. Is the 30 minutes driving meant to be immediately after the initialisation? or will it do it when I start driving tomorrow?
Think I might redo the initialisation before setting off tomorrow. Don't really want a warning on the M1.
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I think the system says 'completed' when it should say 'initialised' ( ie previous calibration data deleted and waiting for new data). It certainly has to see a certain amount of data at above a certain speed to complete the new calibration, but it will do this at its leisure. I just wish it would flash a 'new calibration completed OK' or 'new calibration failed' message up though, I think the initial 'completed' message is very misleading.
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Surely, if you get a warning on the M1, and the car feels and handles okay, you would just ignore it. Poor souls like me, who have vehicles without the modern technology, just have to go by feel and sound of the car, coupled to regular checking of tyre pressures (I do mine about once a month as experience tells me the current tyres maintain their pressures well). I visually check the tyres each morning when I bring the car out of the garage (not for wear but for obvious signs of deflation).
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Surely, if you get a warning on the M1, and the car feels and handles okay, you would just ignore it. Poor souls like me, who have vehicles without the modern technology, just have to go by feel and sound of the car, coupled to regular checking of tyre pressures (I do mine about once a month as experience tells me the current tyres maintain their pressures well). I visually check the tyres each morning when I bring the car out of the garage (not for wear but for obvious signs of deflation).
Yes I would ignore it but don't like driving with alerts on if easily avoided.
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Surely, if you get a warning on the M1, and the car feels and handles okay, you would just ignore it.
Seems like potentially dangerous advice to me; if there is a slow leak then the change of "car feel" may be so slow as to be undetectable to the average driver. Certainly the person asking the question has reported two previous incidents when the system detected problems that he hadn't noticed when driving, that suggests the system is actually more sensitive than the driver:
The third was genuine but I ignored it after the two false ones, and found a flat tyre next morning.
After the fourth one today, I checked the pressures and found one tyre 5psi down, and took it to a tyre place, who found a nail in the shoulder.
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Surely, if you get a warning on the M1, and the car feels and handles okay, you would just ignore it. Poor souls like me, who have vehicles without the modern technology, just have to go by feel and sound of the car, coupled to regular checking of tyre pressures (I do mine about once a month as experience tells me the current tyres maintain their pressures well). I visually check the tyres each morning when I bring the car out of the garage (not for wear but for obvious signs of deflation).
I broadly agree. Given my car gave 3 completely false alarms during the first few months of my ownership I would assume, in the absence of any handling issues, that any it alarm it now gives will be false. I think I'd tend to pull in to the nearest service station and check just to be sure (I always carry a pump and gauge ) however.
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I know I am old school but I still glance at all 4 wheels when I park and before driving off, only takes a few minutes and can often be done as you walk toward the car. I will do a more rigorous check every so often by pressing my thumb into centre of sidewall at top of tyre and 'feel' the spring of the tyre ( you are only comparing the tyres not absolute pressure). This has served me well over many, many , many years of driving and saved me driving off with a punctured tyre more than once. Slick gadgets are OK on cars but they should not make drivers lazy to the basic checks ( I still look over my right shoulder as well before changing lanes or joining a motorway even though I have checked the mirrors).
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Seems like potentially dangerous advice to me;
I'm not advocating doing that all the time, but as Mike was expecting a possible "rogue" alarm, to ignore it was probably reasoned advice. Stopping on the hard shoulder, particularly on the M1, was probably a more dangerous situation.
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Slick gadgets are OK on cars but they should not make drivers lazy to the basic checks ( I still look over my right shoulder as well before changing lanes or joining a motorway even though I have checked the mirrors).
Totally agree, I have found it surprising how a full sized HGV can disappear into a blind spot and having driven HGVs how easily a car can do the same. On approaching an HGV a quick number plate check can indicate which side the driver is on and where his blind spots are.
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Question about the calibration process:
The manual describes the process quite clearly and I have just checked all the pressures and done the "initialisation", and got the "Completed" message.
BUT I am not going to be driving the car for 24 hours. I believe the calibration process includes driving the car for 30 minutes. Is the 30 minutes driving meant to be immediately after the initialisation? or will it do it when I start driving tomorrow?
Think I might redo the initialisation before setting off tomorrow. Don't really want a warning on the M1.
Right...I did redo the initialisation immediately before setting off this morning.
24 minutes later, 10 miles up the M1, got a tyre pressure warning!
Stopped at next services and checked pressures (in case I really had had a second nail) but all four wheels exactly 2 psi higher than when I set them cold yesterday.
So re-initialised again.
29 minutes later....another warning.
This time I ignored it and carried on home.
My Provisional conclusions:
1. A brand new tyre takes more than 53 (24+29) minutes (about 40 miles) to stabilise its rolling radius.
or
2. The combination of one different brand new tyre with three 37,000 mile ones is outside the capability of the TPMS.
or
3. The TPMS is unreliable and does not always initialise and calibrate properly.
In support of no 1. is that many of the false warning reports, including my own, are with the car when very new. Although of course on a brand new car all four tyres are new so the running in differences would be less than my case with one brand new tyre.
No 3 could be true in addition to 1 or 2.
The fact that my system behaved perfectly for more than two years, and then gave a correct warning, seems to imply that once the calibration has worked and the tyres have run-in, it is trustworthy and useful.
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With regard to possibility #2, you might like to have another look at a notice my local dealer has on permanent display, which you actually re-posted for me (because I couldn’t get the format right !):
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8667.msg61218#msg61218
It seems bizarre that the system seems to require tyres to be replaced as a matched pair, but you seem to be proving that that is indeed the case.
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With regard to possibility #2, you might like to have another look at a notice my local dealer has on permanent display, which you actually re-posted for me (because I couldn’t get the format right !):
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8667.msg61218#msg61218
It seems bizarre that the system seems to require tyres to be replaced as a matched pair, but you seem to be proving that that is indeed the case.
Thanks Colin....I had completely forgotten that!
Seems to confirm that no 2 is the culprit, possibly aided and abetted by no 3.
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I think my issue is that the trust goes when the system gives false alarms so I would argue that the system isn't trustworthy. In short, if the alarm goes off on my car again, I will be making an assumption, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that it's a false alarm (although I will, of course, check the pressures as soon as possible to be on the safe side).
I still have the ongoing arrangement with our local dealer that I will take the car in with the alarm still showing if I do get another false alarm - touch wood I haven't had one since the first 3.
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As I said earlier, once the system is setup and stable I definitely trust it.
Once I have sorted this mismatched tyre out I will definitely respond to future alerts.
Changing both tyres on an axle is fine if due to wear, but rather galling to have to buy two new tyres for a shoulder nail in one.
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
Not sure who that is replying to? Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
Not sure who that is replying to? Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.
I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the new calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS by wiping out previous data ( the initialization can only happen with engine stopped and handbrake on ). The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).
I think the choice of terminology on the system leaves something to be desired as it says calibration is complete as soon as you press the button but all you have done is wiped previous data and 'initialised' the system to accept new data, and the system mutes the alarm until it is happy with new data and 'calibrated' itself again , but calibration is not complete until you have driven a few miles above 25mph ( but I am not sure that a steady 70+ is ideal hence my comment ).
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
Not sure who that is replying to? Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.
I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS. The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).
Ah gotcha! You could be right...I just looked at the manual again and see:
"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)."
The first calibration today had about 15 minutes before getting onto the M25/M1 and the second was all M1, but there is a lot of 50 mph limit, though can't now recall whether that was in the calibration period. The M25 was quite slow so not much at 70.
Any way I have now initialised it again and will not be doing any motorway for a while so will see what happens.
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
Not sure who that is replying to? Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.
I think the choice of terminology on the system leaves something to be desired as it says calibration is complete as soon as you press the button but all you have done is wiped previous data and 'initialised' the system to accept new data, and the system mutes the alarm until it is happy with new data and 'calibrated' itself again , but calibration is not complete until you have driven a few miles above 25mph ( but I am not sure that a steady 70+ is ideal hence my comment ).
As one who has just confused initialisation with calibration, I agree. But the "Completed" message only appears in the info window after selecting "initialise".....there is no option to "calibrate".
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Re Mikebore's 3 options above, I think option 1 (new tyres taking time to bed in) is definitely one factor. Option 2 (an un-matched pair of tyres) could also be relevant if the system cannot handle a big difference in rolling diameter. If so, the change of make is not relevant, but putting a new tyre with an old one worn to 3 mm is a problem. I don't think the system is unreliable, but any alarm needs to be interpreted in context.
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Would be nice if a smiley tyre popped up to show system was happy with new calibration or a sad tyre if it is not happy, so that you could 're-do the exercise rather than just wandering off and telling you nothing.
By 'cumulative' driving they must mean that it does not have to be done in one trip and the system will choose the bits it can make use of / is happy with from the rest.
It may take snapshots at several speeds for its final data.
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Would be nice if a smiley tyre popped up to show system was happy with new calibration or a sad tyre if it is not happy, so that you could 're-do the exercise rather than just wandering off and telling you nothing.
By 'cumulative' driving they must mean that it does not have to be done in one trip and the system will choose the bits it can make use of / is happy with from the rest.
It may take snapshots at several speeds for its final data.
That would be useful. Otherwise you are in the dark as to whether calibration has been successful.
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In my experience the initialising/calibration has to be done on relatively straight roads, ie dual carriageways/motorways
If you try to do it on winding roads or around many corners, then the system just cannot cope with the resulting variations in wheel speed and as a result, the calibration is just not accurate enough, to avoid the false alarms.
Actual road speed during the process does not seem to matter.
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I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?
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Maybe calibrating at 70mph+ is not a good idea, but only Honda can answer that one.
Not sure who that is replying to? Agree not a good idea! I haven't tried and doubt it could be done.
I mean driving at 70mph for a long period after initializing the system, the calibration happens after you initialize the TPMS. The calibration happens while you are driving as it can only happen when wheels are rotating. ( to initialize the TPMS the handbrake needs to be on).
Ah gotcha! You could be right...I just looked at the manual again and see:
"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)."
The first calibration today had about 15 minutes before getting onto the M25/M1 and the second was all M1, but there is a lot of 50 mph limit, though can't now recall whether that was in the calibration period. The M25 was quite slow so not much at 70.
Any way I have now initialised it again and will not be doing any motorway for a while so will see what happens.
About 60 mins of local low speed motoring in the last two days with no TPMS warning, but wife just went 10 minutes down the A38 dual carriageway and the warning came on again after five minutes.
Going to replace the 37000 mile Michelin on the front to have a matched pair of new Goodyears on the front.
I wonder if the system can cope with two new Goodyears on the front and two old Michelins on the back. Will report back on this.
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I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?
Your position mirrors my own. I got the car in February last year and I had 3 false alarms within the first 2 to 3 months of ownership. Each time I checked the tyre pressures and each time they were correct. The tyres are all original equipment (Michelin ES) and all are wearing evenly. Each time the alarm went off it was after a short period of motorway driving, each time I recalibrated.
The dealer couldn't find anything wrong but we agreed that, after the next false alarm, I would leave the tyre symbol on (ie not recalibrate) and they would look at it.
The problem has gone away all by itself. I haven't had a single false alarm or any other type of alarm since then. The system is active because a symbol shows when the ignition comes on and then disappears as it should.
To be honest I don't know if the system works or not. I will assume that, if it comes on again, it's a false alarm but I will check the pressures to be on the safe side.
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A common theme here seems to be that the false alarms occur on high speed roads when the tyre pressures will be at their highest.
When checked, presumably when the tyre has cooled, the pressures are correct.
Over time the tyres naturally lose air pressure so that, even on high speed roads, the tyre pressures do not reach the point that the warning is triggered.
This, after all, is a tyre pressure monitoring system.
Nothing says it is only for low pressures. It may also be monitoring, and triggering, for over inflation as well as low pressure. i.e. say + or - 20% of calibrated pressure triggers the alarm.
The calibration instruction seems to indicate that tyre temperature is a factor in the calibration process:
"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)." - [an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve in urban driving!].
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I changed my Jazz last September.
Due mainly because the tyre pressure warning system was driving me crazy and my local dealer was unable to offer any solution.
I now have a Jazz SE CVT updated version.
I love the car and it's my third Jazz.
My question is .......
I haven't been near the tyres either to check or calibrate or inflate. I don't due much motorway driving at all. ALL the problems with last car were on the motorway. No matter what was done the message kept coming on.
I have covered 1800 miles.
Should I check the tyre pressures and re calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?
I don't have a Jazz with the TPMS, but even if I did, I'd still manually check my TP's regularly.
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A common theme here seems to be that the false alarms occur on high speed roads when the tyre pressures will be at their highest.
When checked, presumably when the tyre has cooled, the pressures are correct.
Over time the tyres naturally lose air pressure so that, even on high speed roads, the tyre pressures do not reach the point that the warning is triggered.
This, after all, is a tyre pressure monitoring system.
Nothing says it is only for low pressures. It may also be monitoring, and triggering, for over inflation as well as low pressure. i.e. say + or - 20% of calibrated pressure triggers the alarm.
The calibration instruction seems to indicate that tyre temperature is a factor in the calibration process:
"• The calibration process requires approximately 30 minutes of cumulative driving at speeds between 40–100 km/h (25–62 mph)." - [an exceedingly difficult thing to achieve in urban driving!].
I see your logic, but the recommended pressures surely allow for the increase in pressure when hot? Surely Honda are not going to recommend pressures which trigger the alarm when hot due to excess pressure?
It is not really a tyre pressure warning system, it is a rolling radius warning system. The software is designed to accept a gradual approximate uniform change of rolling radius as tread wears and pressure reduces. Then trigger the warning if one steps out line compared to the other three.
My belief is that the tendency for new cars to have the problem is more likely to do with the tyres bedding in and the rolling radius changing as they do so.
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I assumed the 70 mph motorway calibration was a wind up due to the requirement for the handbrake to be on for calibration to be initialised.
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Poster was suggesting that the 30 minutes driving should not be carried out at 70 mph, a suggestion that was confirmed by the official speed range of 25 - 62 mph from Honda.
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Thinking about my 3 false alarms, I bought the car used (it was 10 months old when I bought it). I have no idea how long it had been standing on the dealer's forecourt. Possible, I guess, that the pressures were low. They pumped them up pre delivery and that interfered with the system by altering the rolling radius.
Anyway, the main thing is, the problem has gone away. It was annoying the hell out of me at first but now I'm not that bothered. I spent the almost previous 50 years of car ownership without a system of this sort so I've almost forgotten the car has it.
Still don't trust it though!
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Should I check the tyre pressures and re calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?
As a matter of habit I tend to visually check the tyres before starting a journey. It also appears that the TPMS won't immediately warn of a soft tyre (see https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920 (https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920)).
If you do check the tyres with a gauge (which involves slight air loss) and optionally top up pressures then it will be prudent to set the vehicle to re-run the TPMS calibration. Any slight pressure change might be enough to get the TPMS over the warning threshold.
So far, I've only had one TPMS warning and that was driving on a motorway southwards on a sunny afternoon. It was a false alarm and I have to wonder if the sun on one side caused slight extra warming and pressure rise sufficient to get over the threshold.
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Should I check the tyre pressures and re calibrate or just step back and leave alone ?
It also appears that the TPMS won't immediately warn of a soft tyre (see https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920 (https://www.hrvforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=920)).
When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.
So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.
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When I got rim corrosion it was triggering an alarm at around 25 psi on affected wheel so I have confidence in the system. It has also complained with new tyres fitted on one axle with 5mm difference between old and new, system also notices when I swap from winter to summer tyres and back but speedometer vs GPS on nextbase dashcam hardly any difference.
In the event of self blowout no system is going to have time to warn you, I just eyeball tyres every time I leave or go back to car and check pressures about once a month.
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When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.
So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.
Perhaps there's a minimum speed for TPMS to activate. My understanding from that HR-V link is that the TPMS may not immediately give an alert if a vehicle is being manoeuvered. By the time the vehicle has reached the threshold speed after manoeuvering the damage coud be done if the tyre was flat or very low pressure.
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When I checked my pressures last Friday after the alert, the tyre with the nail in was 25psi which was 5psi lower than the other three. I wouldn't have thought driving on this would be enough to destroy a tyre. In the linked thread the tyre did reach completely flat, although claimed not driven like that.
So my experience would suggest the TPMS is sensitive enough to prevent destroying a tyre by driving on it underinflated.
Perhaps there's a minimum speed for TPMS to activate. My understanding from that HR-V link is that the TPMS may not immediately give an alert if a vehicle is being manoeuvered. By the time the vehicle has reached the threshold speed after manoeuvering the damage coud be done if the tyre was flat or very low pressure.
The manual does indeed say the system does not operate at low speed, but doesn't say what "low" means. Perhaps the same 25mph min required for calibration? Wouldn't take much driving on a flat tyre at 25 mph to destroy it.
Because we keep referring to the manual I attach the two pages covering the TPMS in my manual:
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The manual does indeed say the system does not operate at low speed, but doesn't say what "low" means. Perhaps the same 25mph min required for calibration? Wouldn't take much driving on a flat tyre at 25 mph to destroy it.
Given that TPMS is primarily a safety feature then it is plausible that the threshold speed could be as high as 25 mph. However, I would hope the threshold would be much lower otherwise one could be driving a long way with a soft tyre in urban conditions but only get told about it on getting to a faster road where it might be less convenient, or safe, to stop.
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I think the system has to be regarded as a useful extra layer of safety, but not a substitute for long-established good practices of routine visual checks and reacting to any change in the driving "feel".
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Poster was suggesting that the 30 minutes driving should not be carried out at 70 mph, a suggestion that was confirmed by the official speed range of 25 - 62 mph from Honda.
Thanks, I was (am suffering from brain fade at the moment ). After resetting my system I use the car normally, anything from mini roundabouts to motorways. I have only had one calibration failure over two cars and the car tells you if the calibration has failed. If I remember correctly.
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I have only had one calibration failure over two cars and the car tells you if the calibration has failed. If I remember correctly.
I think you only know that calibration has failed because the "Check Tyre Pressure" warning pops up within 30 mins or so of initialisation, as my three recent failed attempts to calibrate the combo of worn and new tyre on same axle confirm. There is no specific message like "Calibration Failed".
I now have two new Goodyears on the front and have initialised and hopefully calibrated (done 30 minutes 25-62mph) successfully. However I am fully expecting further warnings as these two new tyres bed in, or maybe because there are still two 37,000 mile tyres on the rear.
Looking back at my records I see the two false warnings I had on my car when it was new occurred around 3800 miles, after which the system settled down (and only gave genuine warnings after that, until this week with mismatched old and new).
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I have only had one calibration failure over two cars and the car tells you if the calibration has failed. If I remember correctly.
I think you only know that calibration has failed because the "Check Tyre Pressure" warning pops up within 30 mins or so of initialisation, as my three recent failed attempts to calibrate the combo of worn and new tyre on same axle confirm. There is no specific message like "Calibration Failed".
I now have two new Goodyears on the front and have initialised and hopefully calibrated (done 30 minutes 25-62mph) successfully. However I am fully expecting further warnings as these two new tyres bed in, or maybe because there are still two 37,000 mile tyres on the rear.
Looking back at my records I see the two false warnings I had on my car when it was new occurred around 3800 miles, after which the system settled down (and only gave genuine warnings after that, until this week with mismatched old and new).
Just had pressure warning :(
This is the first one after initializing with two new Goodyears on front, but 37000 mile Michelins on the back. Didn't come on till about 2 hrs of driving including 30 miles of motorway.
So it is either bedding in of new, or mix of new front (8mm) with old back (4mm).
I hope it's the former, otherwise it means if you have four used tyres and get a nail in one you have to replace all four to stop the wretched warning going off!!
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Just wondering Mike - does the system allow for this in any way? Does it get used to the new situation (say one new tyre after a puncture) and adjust the parameters accordingly? Somebody must know.
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Not according to Honda.
(https://i.imgur.com/MEKx8Jl.jpg)
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That notice says that more than 2mm difference on the same axle will not be accommodated by calibration. But it doesn't say anything about differences between axles.
I am now within 2mm on both axles but the front axle has 8mm and the rear 4mm. And I have just had the system trigger.
I have reinitiated and doing the calibration again.
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The fact it says they must be changed in pairs tells me that it doesn't matter between axles.
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The fact it says they must be changed in pairs tells me that it doesn't matter between axles.
Thats how I read it too, but fact is that I have had a false alert after 70 miles of mixed motoring with matched tyres on each axle.
Have to hope that it is a settling down/running in thing.
My car is going in 37,500 service next week so will quiz Honda then.
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I read an article about the permanent 4WD Volvos, where a transmission failure was not being covered by warranty because the tyres were worn differently between the axles. Volvo stated the tyres should be swapped to maintain even tyre wear, and if one tyre needed replaced then all four should be changed! Made me decide not to go for an XC90!
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Just over 10 years ago I had a company lease car. The leasing company would no allow the swapping around of tyres as they couldn't keep track of the wear on individual tyres and thought people would introduce 'private' wheels in order to get new tyres.
I thought that was plain silly.
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In general terms - I would much prefer a full tyre pressure monitoring system with a sensor on each wheel. The one on my daughter's car - a Qashqai - actually shows the pressure per tyre on the dash. They are not without problems in that the batteries in the sensors fail and then it can be quite expensive (or so I've heard). The Honda system seems a cheap fix to comply with various laws.
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In general terms - I would much prefer a full tyre pressure monitoring system with a sensor on each wheel. The one on my daughter's car - a Qashqai - actually shows the pressure per tyre on the dash. They are not without problems in that the batteries in the sensors fail and then it can be quite expensive (or so I've heard). The Honda system seems a cheap fix to comply with various laws.
My brother found out how expensive the pressure sensor system can be when he wanted winter tyres on his Vitara, had to buy 4 new sensors for new wheels and has to get system reprogrammed twice a year as the system can only remember 4 sensors at a time, also if you have to fit spare wheel you get an alarm until you fit proper wheel back on - I know which system I prefer.....
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I have only had one calibration failure over two cars and the car tells you if the calibration has failed. If I remember correctly.
I think you only know that calibration has failed because the "Check Tyre Pressure" warning pops up within 30 mins or so of initialisation, as my three recent failed attempts to calibrate the combo of worn and new tyre on same axle confirm. There is no specific message like "Calibration Failed".
I now have two new Goodyears on the front and have initialised and hopefully calibrated (done 30 minutes 25-62mph) successfully. However I am fully expecting further warnings as these two new tyres bed in, or maybe because there are still two 37,000 mile tyres on the rear.
Looking back at my records I see the two false warnings I had on my car when it was new occurred around 3800 miles, after which the system settled down (and only gave genuine warnings after that, until this week with mismatched old and new).
Just had pressure warning :(
This is the first one after initializing with two new Goodyears on front, but 37000 mile Michelins on the back. Didn't come on till about 2 hrs of driving including 30 miles of motorway.
So it is either bedding in of new, or mix of new front (8mm) with old back (4mm).
I hope it's the former, otherwise it means if you have four used tyres and get a nail in one you have to replace all four to stop the wretched warning going off!!
My car was in for 37,500 mile service today, so I took them through the TPMS saga.
What the Service Report says is:
"Reset system to NON OE settings and reset tyre deflation warning light 3 times.
Advised customer to try and report back"
I asked what 'resetting to non OE settings' meant, without getting a very satisfactory answer. It "widens the tolerance" was the gist of it.
So watch this space!
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Very interesting. It is as if they are saying that under some circumstances, and some vehicles, the tolerance is too tight. Obviously Honda have considered this at some time, for the facility to be available.
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Very interesting. It is as if they are saying that under some circumstances, and some vehicles, the tolerance is too tight. Obviously Honda have considered this at some time, for the facility to be available.
I am surprised that "Resetting system to NON OE settings" to widen the tolerance, has not been mentioned by anyone before.....perhaps implying it is a recent development.
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Currently having problems with this at the moment.
First time it happened was in February and I had no idea what the warning actually meant until I checked my handbook. When I checked my tyres it was easy to see which was the faulty tyre, called out AA who patched up, but as a screw was on the edge of tyre they recommended replacing within 100 miles, which my Honda garage did within the week as was going in for another issue. I would like to think that they did what they should to recallibrate after fitting, but as they didn't even reset the warning light who knows!!
10 days ago the warning came on again on my way home late at night and although I had a quick check when I got home as it was dark I checked again the following morning. No signs of a problem and garage recommended check tyre pressures and if ok reset the warning, which I did. 4 days later, no further issues until on the motorway and it came on again half way to my destination :o On checking pressures again no signs of an issue so reset the warning. On way back same happened and when I got home checked again and pressures ok and reset.
So far no further warning but barely used the car this week, but as car due in next week for another issue will get them to check this out as well as still under warranty.
Glad I came upon this thread so I can see I am not alone.
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Sounds like you have a new tyre on one side (from the Feb screw) and an older one on the other side.
Depending how much difference in tread depth this could give you problems, as per my recent experience above.
I ended up replacing the opposite side so I had new on both sides, and still had to have the system adjusted to non-OEM tolerances.
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Mine went off last week for the first time. But quite sensibly, knowing how many times it went off on the Jazz, I pulled in about 5 miles from home and reset it. No further issues, got home and parked up on the drive.
I guess you are way ahead of me by now. Went out later to put it in the garage. Rear nearside was a flat as a pancake :-[.
So glad I invested in a space saver.
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Mine went off last week for the first time. But quite sensibly, knowing how many times it went off on the Jazz, I pulled in about 5 miles from home and reset it. No further issues, got home and parked up on the drive.
I guess you are way ahead of me by now. Went out later to put it in the garage. Rear nearside was a flat as a pancake :-[.
So glad I invested in a space saver.
:D ;). Hence the title of the thread!
I am glad to have a space saver too, but admit I have never tried the goo on any car.
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I've had my 2016 Jazz for a couple of weeks now, and had the tyre pressure warning light come on twice. The first time, I was worried, and stopped at a tyre fitting place where they checked the tyres and their pressures. All was OK! So later on I googled it and found the way to reset the warning ( it's also on P443-444 of the manual ) and I did that. A couple of days later it came on again and I reset it again. I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize. The thing is, that rotation imbalance can happen for other reasons - such as wetness on the road, bumps etc. (His Volvo did the same thing). So there you are - fret not, though it's a good idea to check the tyre pressures anyway.
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I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize.
The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.
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I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize.
The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.
The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.
The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.
My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.
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The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.
Yes - sorry, I got it the wrong way round
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The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.
Well, of course.... I DID say check anyway. Which is what I did, and found nothing wrong.
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The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.
Well, of course.... I DID say check anyway. Which is what I did, and found nothing wrong.
Yes you did :). Have you had any further warnings after two in the first two weeks?
After my problems following a slow puncture (genuine warning) followed by several false warnings after buying first one, then two new tyres (see recent posts), Honda reset my system to non OEM (= less sensitive) tolerances which stopped the false warnings. I am curious to know what kind if psi difference will now trigger my system....used to be be about 5psi.
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The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.
The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.
My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.
Yes the system must have a lag to allow for transient events like cornering. One downside of the pressure monitoring system is cost and complication - as my brothers found out when they wanted to have steel wheels and winter tyres - you have to duplicate the pressure sensors and pay to have them re-programmed every time you swap the wheels over, and all that adds up to quite a cost, so people end up getting all season tyres which are a compromise. Pressure sensors can also be damaged if you use foam or gunk in the tyres, and jury is still out on battery life.
We have only ever had positive warnings and warnings we expected ( punctures or swapping wheels winter / summer ) - but then again we have MK2 Jazz and Civic ( the Jazz does not demure at a wheel change but the civic normally shows a warning within 2 or 3 miles due to slight difference in summer winter tyres, about 1MPH between the speedo and dashcam GPS speed display). I guess they played around with the MK3 TPMS and made it too sensitive. One criticism of the ABS TPMS was that it would not tell you ( in the vanishing unlikely situation ) if all 4 tyres were losing air at the same rate ( OK some people NEVER check their tyres and natural leakage may result in a equal slow loss on all 4 tyres over a long period :o ) but Civic does alarm when all 4 wheels are changed for ones a slight amount smaller / larger - so it senses when wheels rotating slower as well as faster - they could make system more sensitive by having more pulses per revolution of the wheel but maybe the ABS would not like that .
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The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.
The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.
My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.
Yes the system must have a lag to allow for transient events like cornering. One downside of the pressure monitoring system is cost and complication - as my brothers found out when they wanted to have steel wheels and winter tyres - you have to duplicate the pressure sensors and pay to have them re-programmed every time you swap the wheels over, and all that adds up to quite a cost, so people end up getting all season tyres which are a compromise. Pressure sensors can also be damaged if you use foam or gunk in the tyres, and jury is still out on battery life.
We have only ever had positive warnings and warnings we expected ( punctures or swapping wheels winter / summer ) - but then again we have MK2 Jazz and Civic ( the Jazz does not demure at a wheel change but the civic normally shows a warning within 2 or 3 miles due to slight difference in summer winter tyres, about 1MPH between the speedo and dashcam GPS speed display). I guess they played around with the MK3 TPMS and made it too sensitive. One criticism of the ABS TPMS was that it would not tell you ( in the vanishing unlikely situation ) if all 4 tyres were losing air at the same rate ( OK some people NEVER check their tyres and natural leakage may result in a equal slow loss on all 4 tyres over a long period :o ) but Civic does alarm when all 4 wheels are changed for ones a slight amount smaller / larger - so it senses when wheels rotating slower as well as faster - they could make system more sensitive by having more pulses per revolution of the wheel but maybe the ABS would not like that .
Thanks. I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be saying your Mk2 Jazz had TPMS. Mine didn't but was a low spec model.
I have been considering getting aftermarket sensors which trigger an alert on your phone for my wife's Mk1. Do you know anything about these? A month ago Halfords were selling a system at a massive discount and I was tempted.
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It's now nearly a year since I had my last false alarm. I had 3 in relatively quick succession and all completely false but all triggered by the same thing - a burst of motorway driving. The system is still operational from what I can see.
I guess I'll never know why it delivered 3 false alarms early in my ownership. However, if it does go off again, the passage of time since the last false alarm will mean I will take it seriously and check the pressures (which I do monthly anyway).
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Thanks. I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be saying your Mk2 Jazz had TPMS. Mine didn't but was a low spec model.
I have been considering getting aftermarket sensors which trigger an alert on your phone for my wife's Mk1. Do you know anything about these? A month ago Halfords were selling a system at a massive discount and I was tempted.
The TPMS ( pressure or ABS type ) was a legal requirement after a certain date so it may just be the age rather than the spec of the vehicle.
I don't know about aftermarket systems but read reviews and take out the really good and really bad ( one star) reviews, and put more weight on the reviews that go into detail rather than the ones that just say ' easy to fit ' or ' load of carp' and you get some idea if they work.
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I would add that the TPMS on my HR-V (and I expect the MK 3 Jazz to be the same) doesn't give a warning until about a mile into a journey. I discovered this when I had the tyres changed. They visually looked OK before I set off and I wondered if the TPMS had been reset (unlikely that the tyre people would know how to do this). The answer came about a mile into the journey when the TPMS alert came on. I checked when I got home and none of the pressures was correct with one tyre being about 7 psi too high.
If, as the above suggests, it takes about a mile for the TPMS to report a problem, then there's the risk of starting a journey with a seriously soft tyre and wrecking it before the TPMS complains. Of course, we inspect the tyres before the start of each journey, don't we?
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I like to think I would very soon notice the effect on handling if a tyre was seriously under-inflated. However, I may be deluding myself!
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I like to think I would very soon notice the effect on handling if a tyre was seriously under-inflated. However, I may be deluding myself!
Front under-inflation easier to pick up than rear tyre - but even so the power steering masks the effects. I still look at all 4 tyres every time I set off and will often push in the sidewall at top of tyre with my thumb and compare all 4 tyres for how easy it is to push ( it works surprisingly well ). Check the pressure about once a month as well.
The front drivers side tyre fools me every time when I check visually, the sidewalls at bottom seem to bulge more than the others - and I have often checked pressure only to find it is spot on - must be a bit more weight on that wheel ?
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Currently having problems with this at the moment.
First time it happened was in February and I had no idea what the warning actually meant until I checked my handbook. When I checked my tyres it was easy to see which was the faulty tyre, called out AA who patched up, but as a screw was on the edge of tyre they recommended replacing within 100 miles, which my Honda garage did within the week as was going in for another issue. I would like to think that they did what they should to recallibrate after fitting, but as they didn't even reset the warning light who knows!!
10 days ago the warning came on again on my way home late at night and although I had a quick check when I got home as it was dark I checked again the following morning. No signs of a problem and garage recommended check tyre pressures and if ok reset the warning, which I did. 4 days later, no further issues until on the motorway and it came on again half way to my destination :o On checking pressures again no signs of an issue so reset the warning. On way back same happened and when I got home checked again and pressures ok and reset.
So far no further warning but barely used the car this week, but as car due in next week for another issue will get them to check this out as well as still under warranty.
Glad I came upon this thread so I can see I am not alone.
They checked out my tyres when at the garage today and they had to adjust the new tyre they put on in Feb and then did a triple hard reset and they have said that should now sort it out.
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From starting driving, 40 plus years ago, I have checked my tyre pressures, on a monthly basis, or thereabouts.
My Jazz is no different, and I find that I put in 2 or 3 psi, some of which is lost in the connection / disconnection.
I do not re calibrate, and indeed, it was 6 months, before I discovered on this forum, that it should be done!
So far....etc. etc.
Just out of interest, how much would the 2 or 2.1 bar figures have to vary, to trigger an alert?
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Just out of interest, how much would the 2 or 2.1 bar figures have to vary, to trigger an alert?
Just one data point but the last genuine warning I had it was about 6 psi down.
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Just thought I'd bump this thread up to reflect today's experience. Coming home from the Wirral today the Tyre Pressure Warning system activated. The car had, at that point, around 650 miles from new. No obvious indication from the handling that anything was amiss so I carried on.
My previous Mk3 gave 3 false alarms and eventually settled down.
Got home, checked pressures, all correct so I have recalibrated. I wonder if I will have to do this several times again as I did with my first Mk3.
A system that is prone to giving false alarms is, quite simply, not fit for purpose.
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I have had alarms go off on previous cars and found the best way re-calibrate, is to reset and then drive several miles on relatively straight roads, ie motorway or similar.
I think, rightly or wrongly, this give the system the best chance to accurately re-calibrate itself, since all wheels are rotating at the same speed.
My latest Mk3 has now covered almost 6k miles with no false alarms, Yet :D
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It's odd isn't it? I've had 4 false alarms - 3 on my last car and now 1 on this one. On the last car I had an agreement with the dealer that the next time it went off (after the first 3) I would not recalibrate and bring the car in. After that, there was no problem.
All those 3 were after a period of motorway driving - I was on the motorway today when the latest false alarm occurred - this may, or may not, be a red herring.
Done the usual Google searches and it's a problem on all Honda models both in the UK and overseas. An annoying problem is that the system apparently "erases" any error code so it's next to impossible for a technician to establish what went wrong.
I've decided to give this car a "3 strikes and you're out" ultimatum. After the third false alarm (assuming it comes) I'll leave the warning light on and take it to the dealers.
This system has been causing issues to some, not all, but some Honda owners for years. Much as I like Honda they really should have fixed this.
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>:( >:( >:(
Wow!
2 false alarms today. The first was just at the end of my 35 mile trip to the Wirral along the M6, M56 and M53. Parked up, checked tyres, no issues, recalibrated.
The second came towards the end of my return trip from the Wirral. I've just recalibrated this time. Tyres look OK.
So, scores on the doors
Number of Mk3s involved ...............2
Genuine Alarms.............................0
False Alarms..................................6
This is beyond funny but my experience is not unusual if the internet is anything to go by. I'm left with 4 questions:
1) What is causing these false alarms?
2) Why, after 3 false alarms, did my previous Mk3 settle down and not give any alarms - false or otherwise?
3) Is it worth going back to the dealership (given I can't find any evidence that anybody has found a dealer who has solved this issue)?
4) Why do all these alarms happen after a period of motorway driving?
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I still think it's down to new tyres bedding in. As to why your false alarms are Motorway related, I can only think it's because the tyres are more stressed then. I had several false alarms on the new car, but none since, after 40,000 miles on the original tyres. I'll soon be replacing the fronts, and expect some problems afterwards.
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Had a few false warnings when I bought my 16 reg Jazz, very rarely since then. Had four new tyres fitted a couple of months ago and no false warnings :)
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I think you might be right John and Downsizer. I guess the other factor is the system, from what I hear, doesn't operate at low speeds so a period of fast driving is almost always going to be more likely to trigger the thing.
Did a reset again this morning having ensured all the tyres were at the right pressure.
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I had this problem. It was resolved when I had new tyres fitted. Apparently the warning goes on repeatedly because the tyres on each side were not of the same make/model. Once that had been fixed - problem disappeared.
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Mine has gone off twice and like others it was on the motorway.
It takes seconds to recalibrate so next time I plan to go on the motorway ( not very often) I will do it before I set off and see if that stops it.
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The Honda TPMS does need a 15 mile+ calibration. The advice is to take in left and right hand bends and a mixture of roads.
If you fit a new single tyre then the TPMS will go off a few times as the tyre wall beds in and the rotation adjusts slightly.
Fit 2 new tyres on the same axle and it should only need resetting once.
Been there, got the t-shirt, etc
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The Honda TPMS does need a 15 mile+ calibration. The advice is to take in left and right hand bends and a mixture of roads.
If you fit a new single tyre then the TPMS will go off a few times as the tyre wall beds in and the rotation adjusts slightly.
Fit 2 new tyres on the same axle and it should only need resetting once.
Been there, got the t-shirt, etc
I fitted two new front tyres two months ago and have driven very little since, with the longest single trip only 7 miles until today (25miles). I had to recalibrate very soon after the tyres were fitted but today I had to do it again. With luck, this will be the last time.
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The Honda TPMS does need a 15 mile+ calibration. The advice is to take in left and right hand bends and a mixture of roads.
If you fit a new single tyre then the TPMS will go off a few times as the tyre wall beds in and the rotation adjusts slightly.
Fit 2 new tyres on the same axle and it should only need resetting once.
Been there, got the t-shirt, etc
Next time I have a problem I'm going to do this (after checking pressures and recalibrating). I haven't had the problem of late.
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It is now over two years since my last battle with the TPMS system. It just happened again , and this time I will call it a fair cop.
Last time it was caused by changing one tyre, then being forced to change the second tyre on the axle, and then still needing the tolerances to be set wider than OEM by Honda to stop the TPMS warning. (earlier this thread).
This time I was driving up the M1 and the warning popped up. I stopped at next services and checked the pressures which varied from about 28 to 32 (hot). I pumped them up to 34 (by now down to warm) and re-initialised the system, drove another 100 miles, (80 on the motorway) and it has not reappeared.
I assume that uneven natural deflation (~4psi) was enough to trigger the TPMS. I confess I had not checked them for a long time ::)
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It is now over two years since my last battle with the TPMS system. It just happened again , and this time I will call it a fair cop.
Last time it was caused by changing one tyre, then being forced to change the second tyre on the axle, and then still needing the tolerances to be set wider than OEM by Honda to stop the TPMS warning. (earlier this thread).
This time I was driving up the M1 and the warning popped up. I stopped at next services and checked the pressures which varied from about 28 to 32 (hot). I pumped them up to 34 (by now down to warm) and re-initialised the system, drove another 100 miles, (80 on the motorway) and it has not reappeared.
I assume that uneven natural deflation (~4psi) was enough to trigger the TPMS. I confess I had not checked them for a long time ::)
Glad it's behaving itself
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It is now over two years since my last battle with the TPMS system. It just happened again , and this time I will call it a fair cop.
Last time it was caused by changing one tyre, then being forced to change the second tyre on the axle, and then still needing the tolerances to be set wider than OEM by Honda to stop the TPMS warning. (earlier this thread).
This time I was driving up the M1 and the warning popped up. I stopped at next services and checked the pressures which varied from about 28 to 32 (hot). I pumped them up to 34 (by now down to warm) and re-initialised the system, drove another 100 miles, (80 on the motorway) and it has not reappeared.
I assume that uneven natural deflation (~4psi) was enough to trigger the TPMS. I confess I had not checked them for a long time ::)
Yes - interesting isn't it? In all the false alarms I've had there has been no variation in tyre pressures or new tyres involved. That said, in this car, bought from new, the system eventually settled down after 3 recalibrations.
I've no faith in the system whatsoever but, as long as it doesn't go off again, I can live with it.
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Somehow I've managed to turn my TPMS off, I can't remember what I did, I was fed up with the thing activating. I was just fiddling with settings etc. It's never come back on in the 12 months that I've had the car. I do check the pressures each week.
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As far as I am aware this is a safety feature and there is no way to electronically disable it.
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Somehow I've managed to turn my TPMS off, I can't remember what I did, I was fed up with the thing activating. I was just fiddling with settings etc. It's never come back on in the 12 months that I've had the car. I do check the pressures each week.
Mine didn't come up for over 3 years until I changed the front tyres. It's not switched off, but normal behaviour when there's no circumference change. The pressures are only checked at the annual service, apart from my visual checks.
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Whatever the system is called, mine goes off regularly enough to be annoying. Only once have I had a puncture and it didnt go off then until I heard the bumping sound they make as you are driving!
I reset it regularly and check my tyres monthly - I have gone form being concerend eveytime it goes off to merely sighing, stopping when I can and resetting which silences it for a while. Perhaps sits just a bit too sensitive for me..
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Whatever the system is called, mine goes off regularly enough to be annoying. Only once have I had a puncture and it didnt go off then until I heard the bumping sound they make as you are driving!
I reset it regularly and check my tyres monthly - I have gone form being concerend eveytime it goes off to merely sighing, stopping when I can and resetting which silences it for a while. Perhaps sits just a bit too sensitive for me..
Mine has never been as bad as that, but when it was giving real trouble a couple of years ago, after buying one then two new tyres, my Honda Dealer "set the tolerances to non OEM", ie made system less sensitive.
You could try asking your Honda dealer to do that.
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I have just had another alert, but it was another "fair cop".
IMHO there are two situations where legitimate warnings will trigger:
1. One tyre gets fast or slow puncture.
2. All tyres slowly deflate by unequal amounts.
The first type is what I reported in the OP of this thread, (slow).
The second type would not happen if you regularly check and reset, but I admit I don't. I can't remember when I last checked and just had a pressure warning and found the tyres were 25,25,25,30.
So after five years of ownership I am pretty confident in the system, and it has mostly done the job it is meant to do. The exceptions were false alerts in the first few months, and then three years later when I changed tyres, and had to have the OEM tolerances widened.
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Had the tyre warning come on regularly when I first bought my Mk3 1.3 CVT but each time when I checked the pressure ALL tyres were perfectly ok and correct pressure. Spoke to local main dealer about this and was advised to turn off the warning and check tyres at least once a week to ensure no change - manual check better than trusting electronics. They even had a handout advising how to switch off the warning. As car only came with foam repair I bought a space saver spare 'just in case'. I currently run 185/60R15's at 34psi front and 32psi rear driver and passenger and find ride is much better than 32/30 on door post and grip is certainly the same if not bit better in the wet.
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Had the tyre warning come on regularly when I first bought my Mk3 1.3 CVT but each time when I checked the pressure ALL tyres were perfectly ok and correct pressure. Spoke to local main dealer about this and was advised to turn off the warning and check tyres at least once a week to ensure no change - manual check better than trusting electronics. They even had a handout advising how to switch off the warning. As car only came with foam repair I bought a space saver spare 'just in case'. I currently run 185/60R15's at 34psi front and 32psi rear driver and passenger and find ride is much better than 32/30 on door post and grip is certainly the same if not bit better in the wet.
Interesting. I thought it was a legal requirement and couldn't be turned off.
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Had the tyre warning come on regularly when I first bought my Mk3 1.3 CVT but each time when I checked the pressure ALL tyres were perfectly ok and correct pressure. Spoke to local main dealer about this and was advised to turn off the warning and check tyres at least once a week to ensure no change - manual check better than trusting electronics. They even had a handout advising how to switch off the warning. As car only came with foam repair I bought a space saver spare 'just in case'. I currently run 185/60R15's at 34psi front and 32psi rear driver and passenger and find ride is much better than 32/30 on door post and grip is certainly the same if not bit better in the wet.
Interesting. I thought it was a legal requirement and couldn't be turned off.
I'm intrigued to see the handout the main dealer gave you to show how to 'switch off' the tyre deflation warning. Do you have a copy you could post on here?
You can initialise the system to effectively reset it following tyre pressure changes, change of tyres etc - but you can't turn it off.
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In 4,5 years and 80000km the warning rang only twice, 185/55R16', both with the OEM Dunlops. No problems with Continentals and winter Kumhos, I use to keep all tires at 35-36psi. EDIT
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In 4,5 years and 80000km the warning rang only twice, 185/55R16', both with the OEM Dunlops. No problems with Continentals and winter Kumhos, I use to keep all tires at 35-536psi.
536psi is probably a bit too high :o :D