Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: TnTkr on September 15, 2020, 06:00:26 AM

Title: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 15, 2020, 06:00:26 AM
I've always struggled calling GD Jazz Mk1, as for me the first Jazz generation was on 80's with chassis code AA. Anyhow, nice picture here. I'd love to have one.
https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF5z3kKnGDn2g/feedshare-shrink_800-alternative/0?e=1603324800&v=beta&t=y0inCNqxRNMDYUuEAxPAnAJpj1_XwmqJqCN_UJ4oojY (https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D22AQF5z3kKnGDn2g/feedshare-shrink_800-alternative/0?e=1603324800&v=beta&t=y0inCNqxRNMDYUuEAxPAnAJpj1_XwmqJqCN_UJ4oojY)
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: Jocko on September 15, 2020, 07:21:08 AM
I am desperate for a Honda-e. Hopefully, after the demise of my "Mk1", I will be in a position to get one.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 15, 2020, 07:56:11 AM
Unfortunate for me, Jocko's dream is easier to fulfill than mine, although more expensive. Honda-e is available from Honda dealers, but AA Jazz is not.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: sparky Paul on September 15, 2020, 11:24:04 AM
You do see them for sale occasionally here in the UK, many of them are Japanese imports though - I don't think there are a lot of the original 1980s UK Jazz 3GM left.

howmanyleft.co.uk shows 5 taxed and 13 on SORN (notified off the road)
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 15, 2020, 12:08:52 PM
We got those in Finland too, LHD of course. I looked for those as daily driver in mid 90's but didn't found suitable condition and colour. I don't remember seeing any in twenty years.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: RichardA on September 16, 2020, 09:48:18 AM
I adopted using the Mk1 term for the 2002-2008 Jazz as this was often used by the British motoring press and by Fitfreaks.

The 1980s Jazz was only sold here for a few years.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 16, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
I adopted using the Mk1 term for the 2002-2008 Jazz as this was often used by the British motoring press and by Fitfreaks.

The 1980s Jazz was only sold here for a few years.

I am not blaming you at all. It is widely used as the very AA Jazz was already so long time ago and there was no continuous path to 21th century Jazzes.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: sparky Paul on September 16, 2020, 06:42:33 PM
The 80s Honda City was completely different car. It only ended up being called the Honda Jazz in Europe because GM owned the European rights to the name 'City'.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 16, 2020, 07:42:59 PM
Yes it was a different car. It was 80's. But it was no more different to nowadays Jazz than 80's Civic is different to 2020 Civic.

And it was called Jazz in Europe. I think it is irrelevant for the case that both AA Jazz and later GD/GE/GK/GR Jazzes have some other names in Japan.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: sparky Paul on September 16, 2020, 11:09:25 PM
Yes it was a different car. It was 80's. But it was no more different to nowadays Jazz than 80's Civic is different to 2020 Civic.

I think it is different to the Civic. The Civic has never been out of production, and you can see the model's evolution from the first generation in 1972, right through to the current 10th generation of the car.

I would argue that there is no such evolutionary link between the 1982 Honda City/Jazz and the current Jazz. The original Honda City/Jazz went on to become the Honda Logo, which was an obviously very different car to the GD Fit/Jazz which replaced it.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: TnTkr on September 17, 2020, 04:17:37 AM
That is true, there is no such continuous path of generations from AA Jazz to GD Jazz. Instead there was a gap of 15 years between the models.
But if you just compare the cars, Civic from 1985 and 2020, without thinking the evolution in between, there is notihing in common except the name.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: Jocko on September 17, 2020, 09:24:55 AM
I wouldn't say there is a great difference between the Honda Logo

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Honda_logo_ga3_5doorl_1_r.jpg)

and the Mk 1 Jazz. Different engine, but you could say the same about the i-DSi and the V-TEC (though built on the same block.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: sparky Paul on September 17, 2020, 10:18:19 AM
That is true, there is no such continuous path of generations from AA Jazz to GD Jazz. Instead there was a gap of 15 years between the models.
But if you just compare the cars, Civic from 1985 and 2020, without thinking the evolution in between, there is notihing in common except the name.

Of course the 1985 and 2020 Civics have zero in common, I'm not saying that they do. What I'm saying is that there were engineering and design elements carried over from one generation of the Civic to the next, and the development of the model was continuous.

I always understood that the GD Jazz was a completely new car from the ground up.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: John Ratsey on September 17, 2020, 03:40:34 PM
Of course the 1985 and 2020 Civics have zero in common, I'm not saying that they do. What I'm saying is that there were engineering and design elements carried over from one generation of the Civic to the next, and the development of the model was continuous.

I always understood that the GD Jazz was a completely new car from the ground up.
I get the impression that what Wikipedia calls the 8th generation Civic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic was substantially different from the 7th generation. There are a fair few of the 7th gen Civic hatchbacks still around from a period when they overlapped the (new) Mk 1 Jazzes and, if anything, those Civics look to be the smaller of the two.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: culzean on September 17, 2020, 04:37:42 PM
Of course the 1985 and 2020 Civics have zero in common, I'm not saying that they do. What I'm saying is that there were engineering and design elements carried over from one generation of the Civic to the next, and the development of the model was continuous.

I always understood that the GD Jazz was a completely new car from the ground up.
I get the impression that what Wikipedia calls the 8th generation Civic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic was substantially different from the 7th generation. There are a fair few of the 7th gen Civic hatchbacks still around from a period when they overlapped the (new) Mk 1 Jazzes and, if anything, those Civics look to be the smaller of the two.

7th Gen Civic are legendary for the rear legroom - enough to have a party,  and the boot was a decent size, would not say the 7th Civic is smaller than the Jazz,  although they didn't have magic seats.  IMHO they were the last of the solidly built Honda cars,  the high position of the gearstick was a bit strange to begin with but after a few miles it felt entirely normal and you didn't have to move left hand far to change gear.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: sparky Paul on September 18, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
I get the impression that what Wikipedia calls the 8th generation Civic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic was substantially different from the 7th generation.

I don't dispute that, some new generations of cars are very substantial revisions. However, the cars are rarely completely new, there are usually some engineering solutions carried over, the basic floorpan layout, and often some major mechanical components. The Civic timeline was further complicated by the deviation of 6th/7th generation onwards Swindon produced cars from RoW Civics.

I would think the Honda City/Logo had as much in common with a Toyota Starlet as it has with the GD Jazz. If you look at the GD floorpan in particular, the layout was completely different to anything before it, and this novel chassis layout has been carried right through to the final petrol models.
Title: Re: Real Mk1 Jazz (AA)
Post by: culzean on September 18, 2020, 10:10:21 AM
I get the impression that what Wikipedia calls the 8th generation Civic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic was substantially different from the 7th generation.

I don't dispute that, some new generations of cars are very substantial revisions. However, the cars are rarely completely new, there are usually some engineering solutions carried over, the basic floorpan layout, and often some major mechanical components. The Civic timeline was further complicated by the deviation of 6th/7th generation onwards Swindon produced cars from RoW Civics.

I would think the Honda City/Logo had as much in common with a Toyota Starlet as it has with the GD Jazz. If you look at the GD floorpan in particular, the layout was completely different to anything before it, and this novel chassis layout has been carried right through to the final petrol models.

I agree,  the floorpan is the most difficult bit to engineer,  followed by the passenger cabin, that is why most facelifts happen to tailgate / boot and bonnet area.   Honda Logo did have more than a touch of Toyota Starlet about it.

The Civic has been in continuous production since 1972 with same name, My 'Rover 400' Honda Civic 6th gen was a very well built car,  double unequal wishbone suspension and a lovely bulletproof 16 valve VTEC engine ( that did not suffer from the lack of of lowdown grunt that of later VTECs ) and just ticking over at <2500 revs at 70mph.  The tyres on that Civic always wore completely evenly ( as measured with digital  caliper ) and held the road really well,  Changed the rear brake shoes at 120,000 miles on the way to 190,000 mileage under my ownership  -  cambelt every 60,000,  and MPG was good.  Looking at later Civic models the engineering has changed with most things made more cheaply ( which really had to happen to keep prices within limits due to increasing cost of safety kit,emissions gear and other tech ) , and one way to get the legendary Honda interior space ( man maximum, machine minimum ) is torsion beam rear suspension,  which is pretty crude really.