Author Topic: Battery Life?  (Read 16832 times)

Jocko

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 01:33:55 PM »
Personally I would suspect the charging circuit rather than the battery. I normally do 2 x 3 miles, Monday to Friday, and even when I do that for several weeks without a long run in between, I have never had problems until the battery reaches the end of its life. I also sit with the radio playing for a spell every day while I wait for my wife. I also wash the car every couple of weeks, and it stands for an hour with doors and/or tailgate open, while I do so.
I have never regularly charged a car battery throughout my motoring life (never had a garage near to my house), and, even in the days of generators and batteries with caps for topping up, never experienced problems. At least not until the battery had reached a fair old age.
I did once have a problem with a new battery which had been fitted by the RAC. It was a universal type, and the mechanic tapped on the required round post for my Vauxhall, on to a square posted battery. The RAC came out, sorted the poor connection between battery and post, and I never had any further problems with it.

culzean

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 03:22:01 PM »
I would have hoped that garage would have done a basic check on charging voltage,  Alternators used to have one diode in the diode pack fail (alternator produces AC and this needs to be rectified with a diode pack to change it to  DC for car electrics) and it would mean a drop of around half a volt on output,  Many garages missed it because they thought 13.5 volts was OK,  but it needs to be 13.8 to 14.2 -  the result was the battery gradually lost power, it would be recharged with a charger and then gradually lost power again because charging voltage was too low. 

A quick check with a voltmeter across battery terminals with engine running is all it needs to check voltage is in the 13.8 to 14.2 (or a bit higher) range as above,  after being allowed to stand for about an hour after charging voltage should ideally be about 12.6 volts in a happy battery.  You can tell state of charge of a battery by terminal voltage (after allowing battery to stand for a while - for chemistry to 'settle down').

Batteries do not like hot weather,  a battery in a hot country may last about 2 years,  we are pretty lucky in UK

http://www.mmbalmainauto.com.au/PDF/State_of_charge_12_volt_batteries.pdf
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 03:24:41 PM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2017, 03:47:37 PM »
I was a radio officer in the Merchant Navy and we depended on batteries for our emergency system. In fact, the first ship I served on had two banks of Lead Acid batteries, for Working and Standby, with one set on charge at any time. For my ticket I had to study battery construction, maintenance and chemistry, for about 3 months of the course. Every port saw a mornings maintenance work. Compared to that car batteries are a dawdle. And so much more advanced now. The worst that can happen is you need a jump start. Better that than the skipper wanting to send an SOS and you have no transmitter!

VicW

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2017, 04:08:35 PM »
Batteries do not like hot weather,  a battery in a hot country may last about 2 years,  we are pretty lucky in UK

I can confirm this having lived in Kuwait for three years. Recent temperatures were a cool day for a Kuwait summer 40C being normal !
Under bonnet temperatures were very high and battery failure was a way of life, you always carried jump leads, not just for your own use but in case someone else needed help. It was not unusual to see two lots of jump leads joined together where access was difficult !
Battery failure was usually instantaneous with no warning of impending failure and in the American car that most people drove the batteries were enormous.

Vic.

Vic.

guest5079

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2017, 11:15:39 AM »
Our Jazz was registered in October 2010 so, coming up for 7 yrs. The battery (original as it had the date 10/10/10 on the side) appeared to be OK. I kept an eye on the indicator which always showed OK. Then recently, while working on a back door for about an hour, ignoring all the warnings, I ended up with a flat battery. AA started it OK and the battery appeared to be fine BUT as it had failed once with comparatively little drain I decided on a replacement.
I found a YUASA locally, they claim it has a 4 yr warranty for £55.
When I started the car after fitting the new battery, I realised I had been living on borrowed time. It started instantly, no turning over several times before firing.
Of course being s*ds law the old battery might have gone on for several more months, it is doubtful it could have coped with the next winter. Despite all appearing to be in order, one must accept that batteries don't live for ever.

peteo48

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2017, 11:35:33 AM »
Batteries do not like hot weather,  a battery in a hot country may last about 2 years,  we are pretty lucky in UK

I can confirm this having lived in Kuwait for three years. Recent temperatures were a cool day for a Kuwait summer 40C being normal !
Under bonnet temperatures were very high and battery failure was a way of life, you always carried jump leads, not just for your own use but in case someone else needed help. It was not unusual to see two lots of jump leads joined together where access was difficult !
Battery failure was usually instantaneous with no warning of impending failure and in the American car that most people drove the batteries were enormous.

Vic.

Vic.

Not strictly relevant but this seems to apply to Electric Cars as well. I've done some research into the Nissan Leaf as a possible next car and battery degradation has been a significant problem, regardless of mileage, in the hotter states in the USA. In the UK, on the other hand, the batteries have held up very well. There's a Leaf taxi in Cornwall that, after 5 years and 170,000 miles still had 80% of it's battery capacity.

culzean

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2017, 01:52:23 PM »
I have always thought a good life for a standard battery in UK is 4 to 5 years and a calcium or silver one 5 to 6 years, after that as auntneddy rightly says 'it is living on borrowed time'. Its reliable life depends so much one usage cycle (has it been kept well charged) and  how hot the battery gets under the bonnet.   I have a bronze coloured Civic and could hardly touch the surface of bonnet yesterday but lifting the bonnet and seeing the insulation (maybe sound deadening or both) the top of battery was very cool - but may not be so cool when engine is running - I know Jaguar still have,  and some Rover cars used to have battery in the boot to keep it cooler.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2017, 01:55:44 PM »
Not strictly relevant but this seems to apply to Electric Cars as well. I've done some research into the Nissan Leaf as a possible next car and battery degradation has been a significant problem, regardless of mileage, in the hotter states in the USA. In the UK, on the other hand, the batteries have held up very well. There's a Leaf taxi in Cornwall that, after 5 years and 170,000 miles still had 80% of it's battery capacity.

A taxi with a 70 mile range ?? (on a good day) bet he doesn't do much out of town wok -   80% capacity means its range is down to about 55 miles now - nahh, no thanks i will stick with ICE.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 02:31:33 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Garyman

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2017, 04:45:45 PM »
Our Jazz was registered in October 2010 so, coming up for 7 yrs. The battery (original as it had the date 10/10/10 on the side) appeared to be OK. I kept an eye on the indicator which always showed OK. Then recently, while working on a back door for about an hour, ignoring all the warnings, I ended up with a flat battery. AA started it OK and the battery appeared to be fine BUT as it had failed once with comparatively little drain I decided on a replacement.
I found a YUASA locally, they claim it has a 4 yr warranty for £55.
When I started the car after fitting the new battery, I realised I had been living on borrowed time. It started instantly, no turning over several times before firing.
Of course being s*ds law the old battery might have gone on for several more months, it is doubtful it could have coped with the next winter. Despite all appearing to be in order, one must accept that batteries don't live for ever.

I think I had mentioned it but my original battery lasted me just over 7 years, current one is just over a year old now so no idea why current one appears to be causing me some problems.

Will keep a close eye on it but before getting my battery from my local Honda dealer, I did look into getting a Yuasa one

Jocko

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2017, 08:05:54 PM »
RAC man, who changed my battery last year, said failed one was the factory original. That was after 10 years on the car!

Garyman

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2017, 10:11:22 AM »
So my battery died again this morning  :(

Called my Honda garage and they asked me to bring it down again tomorrow morning and they will try and get a fail on it so it can be replaced under warranty.

I told them I was just tempted to get a Yuasa one and be done with it as I don't have the time to keep going to see them even though they've been really helpful and looked after me all these years

guest1372

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2017, 11:06:21 AM »
Surely you must have a Yuasa battery?

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TG

peteo48

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »
Not strictly relevant but this seems to apply to Electric Cars as well. I've done some research into the Nissan Leaf as a possible next car and battery degradation has been a significant problem, regardless of mileage, in the hotter states in the USA. In the UK, on the other hand, the batteries have held up very well. There's a Leaf taxi in Cornwall that, after 5 years and 170,000 miles still had 80% of it's battery capacity.

A taxi with a 70 mile range ?? (on a good day) bet he doesn't do much out of town wok -   80% capacity means its range is down to about 55 miles now - nahh, no thanks i will stick with ICE.

Think your figures are a bit out. They reckon on 80 to 90 on the old 24 kwh Leaf and the oldest one still manages 65. Stop start motoring actually quite good for EV range.

Last week went out with my walking group. It was a mate's turn to drive and his Leaf managed the 80 mile round trip with some to spare. Warm weather and dry roads helped.

The ICE is on it's way out. I can't see many surviving beyond 2030.

jazzway

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2017, 12:39:05 PM »
Is there a date on the battery i can see from above? Our Jazz will be 7 years in November and because we bought the car before its 5th 'birthday' i have no idea if this is the original battery. We have no problems at all what could be indicated on battery life, but maybe it suddenly dies tomorrow. Second question, can i buy the right battery on forehand and storage it until we need it? I ask this because i already know that by the time the battery dies i have to choose between Bosch and Bosch and there will be no time to order a better brand battery in time.

culzean

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Re: Battery Life?
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2017, 12:59:28 PM »
stop start is same for battery as ICE pretty much,  power supply still has to provide power to get car moving and accelerate (which  is more power than steady speed - unless that speed is 100mph ),  obviously electric cars don't have a 'tickover' to waste fuel while standing but most cars have start stop nowadays anyway.

When they get an EV with 400 mile range and 10 minute recharge and guarantee plenty of charging points with no queues I may reconsider.

I just love the way they advertise PHEV like Mitsubishi Outlander and BMW i8 - it seems as though they don't consider electrical power as 'fuel used' - I worked with a couple of people who had Outlander as company vehicle,  20 miles on full battery and then 30mpg after (and only a small fuel tank) and they can still claim stupid mpg figures which any half-witted engineer can see don't add up (135mpg for a 300BHP car ? ) The batteries alone in the Mitsubishi weigh 500kg and will take the SUV 20 miles fully charged wtf!

Nothing depreciates like an EV............. at that rate of depreciation the cost per mile becomes absolutely shocking

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/14410937.Man_warns_of_electric_vehicle_depreciation_after_losing___15_000_on_Nissan_Leaf_in_18_months/
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 01:06:17 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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