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Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: andruec on November 11, 2016, 04:33:15 PM

Title: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 11, 2016, 04:33:15 PM
So yet again (Mk2 then Mk3) Honda have managed to muck up the cabin ventilation. Now that winter is here the windows are fogging up. Bear in mind that mine is parked in a garage overnight so they will be clear initially. Some fogging is to be expected but it should stop in a couple of minutes once the cabin is at a reasonable temperature. Well not the Jazz Mk3 - at least not for me.

If this is the same issue that the Mk2 had (which seems likely) I'm pretty much going to have to drive everywhere with the heating system set to windscreen. The Mk2 had this problem no matter how long the journey and how warm the cabin got. What made it even worse was that after just over an hour the heater would start to pump out cold air. So you either drive in a fog (and crash into things) or put a coat and scarf on. And of course the fan runs at near full speed all the time.

One thing I always regret since moving from Nissan to Honda is the latter's difficulty in designing cabin ventilation. I could drive my Nissan's for an hour or more in recirculate mode and they wouldn't fog up. The two Civics and my first Jazz were okay but it was impossible to position vents to avoid being in a draft. The Mk2 and now the Mk3 appear to have solve that problem by just never pushing enough air around.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: trebor1652 on November 11, 2016, 04:36:59 PM
Turn on the air con, windows demist in a flash, does on my mk3.

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Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 11, 2016, 04:41:02 PM
Turn on the air con, windows demist in a flash, does on my mk3.
I have climate control and it's normally always on. If the CC had the sense to direct some air at the windscreen now and again it'd be okay but it doesn't. Consequently I have to manually direct the air. It wouldn't be so bad if it was only for the first ten minutes or so. But if it's like the Mk2 I'm going to have to drive everywhere with it blowing at the windscreen or else keep switching it to and from auto/windscreen every ten minutes.

I found an old thread on this forum suggesting that owners should open the windows if they park in a garage so I might give that a go. Trouble is I can't see how that will help if the windows are still fogging up after you've been driving an hour :-/
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: trebor1652 on November 11, 2016, 04:46:45 PM
So set it up so the air goes to the windscreen and the foot well at the same time.

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Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: trebor1652 on November 11, 2016, 05:32:04 PM
Do you have the airflow on recirculate? if so then the car will mist up, you have to have it set on air from the outside.

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Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: John Ratsey on November 11, 2016, 05:56:06 PM
I don't think that climate control inherently turns on the AC. Don't you have the screen demist button? This triggers a blast of dehumidified air which usually clears the windscreen and front side windows very quickly, after which turn it off again unless you like the noise. I recall occasional conditions which could cause gradual misting and the demist button was the best antidote.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 11, 2016, 06:21:38 PM
Do you have the airflow on recirculate?
No, I don't.
Don't you have the screen demist button?
The only button I'm aware of is the one that diverts all air to the windscreen (far left of panel) until turned off.
Quote
This triggers a blast of dehumidified air which usually clears the windscreen and front side windows very quickly, after which turn it off again unless you like the noise. I recall occasional conditions which could cause gradual misting and the demist button was the best antidote.
Ah so it is the button I've already been talking about. Yes, I could keep pressing that then five minutes later pressing 'auto' then five minutes later pressing windscreen only.

But as I mentioned in my diatribe I get a bit fed up of having to do that for hours on end. I don't yet know if the Mk3 is as bad in that respect as the Mk2 but I suspect it is. The windows and screen of my Mk2 Jazz would never stay unfogged for long in winter.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: guest6316 on November 11, 2016, 07:02:09 PM
Yes I can concur that it is often necessary to give a blast of air to front and rear screen, but its usually cleared in less than a minute.
This is what I've experienced in my Mk 3 Ex, which is also garaged and yes I usually drive with the Climate Control permanently on.

Its no big deal to touch the demist button on and off, its such a short space of time before the windows are clear anyway, particularly the front the fans just blast it clear in literally seconds.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Hobo on November 11, 2016, 07:24:39 PM
So yet again (Mk2 then Mk3) Honda have managed to muck up the cabin ventilation.

Never noticed a problem with my MK2. climate control, windows clear quickly enough after first starting up with air set to windscreen, then just set to auto and don't have to adjust anything again for the windows to remain clear.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on November 11, 2016, 07:38:12 PM
In the five Jazz's I have owned I have never had a problem with misting.
I never switch the aircon off or drive with any windows open.
My current car has climate control but I still run it in manual as the auto setting selects too slow a fan speed and doesn't put the air where I want it. The fan speed is set to three, the aircon set to on, in summer I direct the air to face and feet and in winter to screen and feet. The temperature is still controlled automatically in manual.
The biggest causes of misting are having the air intake set to recirculate and having too low a fan speed. Keeping the inside of the windows clean helps to.

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 11, 2016, 08:23:01 PM
Our MK1 Jazzes suffered from misting if aircon not used but wife's MK2 is fine - like VicW I use system in manual mode because fan almost turns itself off in auto
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: jazzster on November 11, 2016, 08:34:02 PM
On my Mk2 the Climate does not work for keeping the screen clear in auto, after a short period it just direct the air to the floor, other climate a/c ive had in other makes do seem to manage to know if screen is misting and send air to screen. l always end up in manual
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Pumpkin on November 11, 2016, 09:40:36 PM
I have this same annoying problem on my mk2!
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: JazzyB on November 12, 2016, 12:47:35 AM
One thing to remember is that when the outside temperature drops to about 4 degrees or less the a/c won't work (some safety thing to protect the system) so even if you have got the climate control on and the temp set etc you will still get some misting so as the others have pointed out just press the demist button as required.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 12, 2016, 08:00:12 AM
So yet again (Mk2 then Mk3) Honda have managed to muck up the cabin ventilation. Now that winter is here the windows are fogging up. Bear in mind that mine is parked in a garage overnight so they will be clear initially. Some fogging is to be expected but it should stop in a couple of minutes once the cabin is at a reasonable temperature. Well not the Jazz Mk3 - at least not for me.

If this is the same issue that the Mk2 had (which seems likely) I'm pretty much going to have to drive everywhere with the heating system set to windscreen. The Mk2 had this problem no matter how long the journey and how warm the cabin got. What made it even worse was that after just over an hour the heater would start to pump out cold air. So you either drive in a fog (and crash into things) or put a coat and scarf on. And of course the fan runs at near full speed all the time.

One thing I always regret since moving from Nissan to Honda is the latter's difficulty in designing cabin ventilation. I could drive my Nissan's for an hour or more in recirculate mode and they wouldn't fog up. The two Civics and my first Jazz were okay but it was impossible to position vents to avoid being in a draft. The Mk2 and now the Mk3 appear to have solve that problem by just never pushing enough air around.

I have a Mark 2 with no fogging problems. 2 minutes screen heat and its gone.
Wet clothes?Wet carpets?
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 12, 2016, 08:11:18 AM
One thing to remember is that when the outside temperature drops to about 4 degrees or less the a/c won't work (some safety thing to protect the system) so even if you have got the climate control on and the temp set etc you will still get some misting so as the others have pointed out just press the demist button as required.

I agree, all air con systems have a low temperature cut out to protect the system from damage due to freezing. My air con is almost always on but I know the indicator light lies at low temperatures.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 12, 2016, 09:13:54 AM
One thing to remember is that when the outside temperature drops to about 4 degrees or less the a/c won't work (some safety thing to protect the system) so even if you have got the climate control on and the temp set etc you will still get some misting so as the others have pointed out just press the demist button as required.

 Demist button still relies on aircon to dry the air   :-X
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 12, 2016, 09:41:43 AM
It's interesting to see the different experiences. I do agree that pressing demist quickly clears the screen but the mist comes back after ten to fifteen minutes in my experience. Annoyingly it will keep doing that even on long journeys (the Mk2 at least - not driven the Mk3 that long at this time of year yet). I dislike having to manually intervene when there's a supposedly automatic system in place. I believe such systems should be set-and-forget. All the system needs to do is send some air at the windscreen now and again. I shouldn't have to keep telling it to do that.

The manual suggests that the normal air flows are feet and/or dashboard. That suggests there's no normal flow the windscreen. But it may be that in full auto it only sends air to the feet. I'll have to try overriding it and see if that helps. But I remember playing extensively with the Mk2 and never managing to resolve the issue.

I'm not aware of any dampness anywhere but it's worth a look. There's only me uses the car and it's garaged overnight. But it sounds like there's something odd going on. This and my previous car are the only ones that have suffered misting windows after the first ten minutes of a journey.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 12, 2016, 09:49:39 AM
However re-reading the manual suggests that the car should maintain temperature even if one or more settings is overridden so perhaps I can set it to screen and cabin manually. That would be okay.

and the score is

Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 12, 2016, 09:51:04 AM
Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
Which is nothing to be proud of because humans designed and built the auto system.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on November 12, 2016, 10:05:06 AM
Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
Which is nothing to be proud of because humans designed and built the auto system.

Automation Engineers are not human, they are a completely different breed. I know I am one
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: ColinS on November 12, 2016, 10:10:04 AM
Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
This is clearly untrue.  If the human contents of the car stopped breathing there would be no condensation ;D.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 12, 2016, 10:17:04 AM
Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
This is clearly untrue.  If the human contents of the car stopped breathing there would be no condensation ;D.

wet clothes and shoes (and wet dogs), outside air humidity (especially if the humidity is so high it is coming down in buckets), temperature  etc. etc. contribute much more to misting up than us mere humans and our bodily functions.

I will try the breathing thing,  but have to convince my wife  :-X

Automation Engineers are not human, they are a completely different breed. I know I am one

I know because I used to be one, they have to think of all the bad things that can happen and try to guard against them, only natural pessimists need apply  :o
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on November 12, 2016, 11:43:39 AM
With the coming of driverless cars if you leave the occupants out as well there would be no misting problems or any others come to that !

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 12, 2016, 12:03:45 PM
One thing to remember is that when the outside temperature drops to about 4 degrees or less the a/c won't work (some safety thing to protect the system) so even if you have got the climate control on and the temp set etc you will still get some misting so as the others have pointed out just press the demist button as required.

 Demist button still relies on aircon to dry the air   :-X

Not at low (below about 4C) temperatures it doesn't. The air con can not work at low temperatures and cuts out to protect itself from damage, although the indicator light stays on.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 12, 2016, 12:08:34 PM
Humans 1 (the common sense team)  VS  Automation  0 (the artificial stupidity team)
This is clearly untrue.  If the human contents of the car stopped breathing there would be no condensation ;D.

That is not strictly true.

In the winter, driving a car is like having a moving refrigerator. The windscreen collects moisture on the external side which then evaporates - The latent heat lost cools the glass and causes condensation on the inside..

Once drove to Scotland at night. Most of the way it was -3-5C  and the aircon/heating coped.  But in one valley the temperature fell to -18C   :o and the screen misted up very quickly...
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 12, 2016, 12:19:10 PM
You once drove to Scotland, wow! I often drive to the south of the UK.

I live in sunny Scotland, it sometimes gets a bit cold, depending on where you live, averaging a couple of degrees cooler than the south east of England, I live near sea level. The temperature is 9.6C here at the moment.

Ye canne change the rules of physics captain, no matter where you are . Air con does not work at low temperatures.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 12, 2016, 01:38:11 PM
You once drove to Scotland, wow! I often drive to the south of the UK.



No need for the sarcasm. I was brought up and educated there and have driven there at least 400 times since I moved to England.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 12, 2016, 02:41:59 PM
At least there's a vent position that is screen+feet. Hopefully I can leave it set to that. It's a shame that the system can't do something like that automatically though.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 12, 2016, 05:53:57 PM
At least there's a vent position that is screen+feet. Hopefully I can leave it set to that. It's a shame that the system can't do something like that automatically though.

Ventilation in a car is a very personal thing for a lot of people, my wife can feel draughts that NASA couldn't detect with their most sensitive draughtometer - she often messes with various vent positions to get rid of the air that is blowing on her sensitive ear or neck - this often means turning screen air vents off.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 12, 2016, 06:26:12 PM
At least there's a vent position that is screen+feet. Hopefully I can leave it set to that. It's a shame that the system can't do something like that automatically though.

Ventilation in a car is a very personal thing for a lot of people, my wife can feel draughts that NASA couldn't detect with their most sensitive draughtometer - she often messes with various vent positions to get rid of the air that is blowing on her sensitive ear or neck - this often means turning screen air vents off.

My wife is identical...
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: trebor1652 on November 12, 2016, 09:20:48 PM
Sensitive ears and necks.
Courting must have been fun.😀😋😁

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Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: WesleyLau99 on November 13, 2016, 03:59:02 PM
Get A Pingi reusable car dehumidifier may help.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 13, 2016, 05:02:04 PM
Sensitive ears and necks.
Courting must have been fun.😀😋😁

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

Ahh happy days... ;D
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 13, 2016, 05:03:32 PM
I think the problem of misting up occurs in the period before the heater produces hot air. This misting can be cleared with the air con if the ambient temperature is above the air con cut out temperature. If the air con is not available due to low ambient temperature you need heat to clear the mist. If you have not got either dry or hot air (or both) you get mist. Heavy breathing does not help either! :-)
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: pb82gh3 on November 14, 2016, 10:25:34 AM
Another factor contributing to misting can be the interior plastics degassing. You may think the inside of the screen is clean, but constant degassing of the plastics e.g. dash pollutes the surface of the glass, so frequent thorough cleaning, even if it already looks clean, is recommended. I've no idea whether Hondas or Jazzes in particular are better or worse than other cars in this respect. Also don't get me started on what we might all be breathing in.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 14, 2016, 10:45:48 AM
Another factor contributing to misting can be the interior plastics degassing. You may think the inside of the screen is clean, but constant degassing of the plastics e.g. dash pollutes the surface of the glass, so frequent thorough cleaning, even if it already looks clean, is recommended. I've no idea whether Hondas or Jazzes in particular are better or worse than other cars in this respect. Also don't get me started on what we might all be breathing in.

As well as the plastic gassing off,  all the polish you put on dash can evaporate / gas off in  sunshine and stick to inside of windscreen as well,  leaving a near invisible film that will encourage misting up and the film is hard to removed with 'normal' screen cleaners (try meths or even white spirit and see the muck that comes off),
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 14, 2016, 11:22:33 AM
I clean windows inside with a solution of warm water and vinegar and a microfibre cloth. Removes all grease etc..

I also add vinegar to wash'nwax for external washing... Dry with artificial chamois.. sparkling result with minimal effort.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 14, 2016, 01:01:46 PM
I clean windows inside with a solution of warm water and vinegar and a microfibre cloth. Removes all grease etc..

I also add vinegar to wash'nwax for external washing... Dry with artificial chamois.. sparkling result with minimal effort.

vinegar contains alcohol which is like using meths (which is good for grease etc.) - most window cleaners add vinegar to their bucket, vinegar also has acetic acid which is a good descaler (will also work with hard water to soften it) and cleaner.

I add meths to washer bottle as it gets most things off screen and also acts as anti-freeze
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 14, 2016, 02:50:54 PM
Setting the vent position to 'screen+feet' seems to have resolved it. I can't remember if I tried that with the Mk2 or not. So the problem may well just be with the 'auto' setting which never sends any air to the windscreen.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: madasafish on November 14, 2016, 04:07:38 PM
I clean windows inside with a solution of warm water and vinegar and a microfibre cloth. Removes all grease etc..

I also add vinegar to wash'nwax for external washing... Dry with artificial chamois.. sparkling result with minimal effort.


I add meths to washer bottle as it gets most things off screen and also acts as anti-freeze

Waste of good meths  :P
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 14, 2016, 06:08:42 PM
Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right

Why is it Hondas fault? They give you air con, heating, fresh or recirculated air, air outlets, and even opening Windows, all you have to do is use them to achieve the desired effect. I think it is down to operator error.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: John Ratsey on November 14, 2016, 06:12:56 PM
Why is it Hondas fault? They give you air con, heating, fresh or recirculated air, air outlets, and even opening Windows, all you have to do is use them to achieve the desired effect. I think it is down to operator error.
They failed to make the automatic setting clever enough to see that the windscreen was misting up and needed special action.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 14, 2016, 06:58:01 PM
Why is it Hondas fault? They give you air con, heating, fresh or recirculated air, air outlets, and even opening Windows, all you have to do is use them to achieve the desired effect. I think it is down to operator error.
They failed to make the automatic setting clever enough to see that the windscreen was misting up and needed special action.

My last three cars have had auto climate control, they all had an internal temperature and humidity sensor. My Jazz has manual HVAC so I don't have a problem, I set it how I want it. One of the reasons I did not buy an EX. Does the EX have an internal humidity sensor? My previous cars had a small fan which pulled air across the sensors behind a grille like the one to the left of the steering column.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on November 14, 2016, 07:17:33 PM
The climate control version on the Jazz also has inside temperature and humidity sensors. The vent that feeds them is on the dash panel to the right of the radio I believe.
Perhaps the humidity sensor should be closer to the windscreen.
 I run my auto system manually as it is not capable of putting the air flow where I want it or at what speed I want but you can still dial the required temperature in.

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 14, 2016, 09:12:43 PM
Why is it Hondas fault? They give you air con, heating, fresh or recirculated air, air outlets, and even opening Windows, all you have to do is use them to achieve the desired effect. I think it is down to operator error.
I doubt that view surprises anyone. All you ever seem to do is defend Honda. If they sold you a car with three wheels and only half a roof you'd probably praise them for the ventilation and say that it's our fault if we can't keep the car balanced.

Anyway to my mind if all the climate control can do is modify temperature then it's not really 'automatic climate control'. It's just a digital thermostat. Looking at the manual it doesn't seem to say whether it can monitor humidity or not. It just refers to 'sensors'. But at the very least if it detected a low outside temperature it could periodically send some air to the screen or maybe a continuous trickle would suffice.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 14, 2016, 10:28:19 PM
Why is it Hondas fault? They give you air con, heating, fresh or recirculated air, air outlets, and even opening Windows, all you have to do is use them to achieve the desired effect. I think it is down to operator error.
I doubt that view surprises anyone. All you ever seem to do is defend Honda.

Not at all, a few people seem to expect luxury car features after paying for a supermini.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 14, 2016, 10:36:43 PM
Not at all, a few people seem to expect luxury car features after paying for a supermini.

+1   

I liked it better when we could choose temperature with a rotary knob with blue and red sectors on it, and change it quickly without having to look down at dash to find buttons to press,  all I seem to do is override the auto system all the time - but I do keep trying auto to see if it has 'learnt' my preferences,  but it's always just as dumb as ever.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: guest6436 on November 15, 2016, 12:31:34 AM
I have started to think this is problem with all the hondas, our mk1 is just terrible at this, mk2 also
Than we had an 2003 honda CR-v -same problem, and we also have 2009 crv now - same thing!!

No other car brand we have had ( and we have lots of car in family) has had this problem this big!
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 15, 2016, 07:16:29 AM

+1   

I liked it better when we could choose temperature with a rotary knob with blue and red sectors.

After three cars with climate control (that worked without intervention) I find my SEs manual system perfectly adequate and rarely needs adjustment. The settings that work for me are air con always on,  feet and dash vents in summer, feet and windscreen in winter. Temperature dial usually at 50% with the fan on at position 2. This seems to be comfortable in all but extremes of temperature and / or humidity.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: guest6316 on November 15, 2016, 10:13:09 AM
As I previously said earlier in the thread, I have my Climate Control on almost all the time, I did some experimenting with it off a while ago, but not to cure any misting up problem.

Yes I get misted up occasionally, mostly I know the cause. Either I've jumped in the car soaking wet from the rain or I've been sat in the car for a long time with engine and everything off (waiting for the good lady to come out of the shop with my credit card in tact).

Its the same with any car, well any car that I've ever owned, moisture from clothes or breath will end up on the windscreens.

The system just needs a little helping hand by pushing demist 'buttons' after a few seconds all clear. I cant see the problem at all.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 15, 2016, 07:55:57 PM
The system just needs a little helping hand by pushing demist 'buttons' after a few seconds all clear. I cant see the problem at all.
Since leaving the vents set to screen+feet mine has been fine. But that means it's no longer operating in auto mode. It's just an aircon system with a thermostat which hardly seems to justify the expense over the bog-standard air con variant.

If some people like to waste their time twiddling knobs and carrying out other menial tasks then fine. But I paid a premium for my Jazz at least in part because I wanted an automatic climate control system. And it seems to me that I haven't got all that I paid for.

One thing intrigues me. I'm sure I read in one of the Jazz manuals something along the lines of '..directs air to different vents as required.'. I can't find that in the Mk3 manual. I also vaguely recall that one of my previous Jazz did send the air to the windscreen when cold without me telling it. The problem was that it stopped doing it after ten minutes and the screen kept misting up even after several hours driving.

Edit: Some interesting comments in this thread from 2013:

I'm not the first to question it. (http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=4611.0)

Some Civic owners aren't too happy about it either. (http://www.civicx.com/threads/auto-climate-control.1725/)
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on November 17, 2016, 09:15:12 AM
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/10/lazyamerica200710 (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2007/10/lazyamerica200710)   

Lazy-Ass Nation
America's Can-Do-But-Why-Bother spirit has produced a wave of gadgets that take the effort out of almost everything: vacuuming rugs, parking cars, walking dogs. In fact, why wear out those tongue muscles when a virtual assistant can order you a Motorized Ice Cream Cone?


Could it be that our increasing willingness to get through life in a nearly comatose state has kept us physiologically stagnant?


LOL - humans will soon be just a head and a finger able to work a remote control,  even the finger will drop off if remote controls all get replaced by voice activated stuff,  just keep the throat spray close because if you get a sore throat and lose your voice you will starve.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on November 17, 2016, 09:48:35 AM
This thread seems to have the theme of defect or dislike again. I am sure the HVAC works exactly as Honda intended. A bit less belief in marketing waffle and some expectation management might help.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: guest6425 on November 17, 2016, 10:48:03 AM
Seems like a moan about nothing. It's a Jazz not a bus, is it really (I mean really) that hard to turn aircon on, have it set for screen & feet at the fan speed & temp you want, rather than an auto thing that can only guess at what you want.

I've never ever had any problems with air-con either manual or auto in any car I've ever had.

In fact, as long as your aircon is on - generally I've found face or face & feet will still keep the screen clear, even in a big ass SUV with a lot more interior space than a jazz.

I DO find though, that if you turn air-con off in a modern vehicle and your ventilation isn't set for screen, then it WILL mist up, but not with aircon on.

Don't cry about the auto aircon , they're only ever a fudge. Take control of your environment and have it set to your preferences, I dare say in auto mode my preferences might well be different to yours, how is the system supposed to know what you like or I like.
Set it yourself, it's hardly taxing, you're not hand cranking the damn thing.

Oh & check your pollen filter, that can cause interesting issues with ventilation if its not been changed.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Hobo on November 17, 2016, 11:57:03 AM
Was in Lancashire unfortunately for a funeral a few days ago, but that's another story, we went for a meal afterwards and we volunteered to run two people home, left at 7pm on a raining and damp evening and almost as soon as four got in the car the windows immediately misted up, switched the demist buttons on and within two minutes the car was clear switched the CC back to Auto and the car remained clear for the rest of a twenty mile journey in country and built up areas and no one stopped breathing at all during the journey.

No complaints about the CC, as stated before it appears to work satisfactorily and without any problems for us.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: guest1372 on November 17, 2016, 06:30:42 PM
I could be tempted to upgrade my binary a/c to a slightly more sophisticated auto system by wiring in a thermostat to the on/off button.  It seems the heat/cool generation part is the same, it's just the control and sensors that vary.  Not sure a large Honeywell room-stat duct taped to the dashboard will look that appealing, might have to go down the micro-controller route instead for temp and humidity control with a little OLED display.
--
TG
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on November 18, 2016, 04:22:41 PM
So because the dealer's techies have been playing with my car a lot of settings were on default when I picked it up. And guess what I saw? When I started it the air con display showed 'feet'. Then after a few seconds it switched to 'windscreen'. Wow! I thought. To be honest it's the first time I've started the car with a truly cold cabin with the CC set to full auto. Maybe it's just because my car is kept in a garage and the system never triggered.

So now we know that the Climate Control system absolutely can direct airflow to the screen if it feels the need. So all this rubbish about me expecting too much is exactly that. The system is designed to help keep the screen unfogged without manual intervention.

Unfortunately either mine really is faulty or Honda are a bunch of muppets. After a few seconds as I pulled out of the carpark it switched the flow back to 'feet' and refused to change it. Eventually I had to manually move it to 'screen+feet' to get rid of the fogging.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: peteo48 on November 18, 2016, 05:48:59 PM
Mine does steam up a bit but I find the windscreen boost thingy gets the screen cleared pretty quickly. Going back a bit I found my VW Golf an absolute pig to clear even with the fan on full blast but that was with manual aircon.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on December 19, 2016, 09:13:18 AM
Over the last week or so I have been experimenting with the HVAC system. I normally run with the Air con on, and have done for years and many cars. I have found that turning off the aircon in the current damp conditions causes almost immediate misting. This can be slowly cleared with heat. Once the car has dried out (explanation coming)  there is little if any misting with the aircon off. I think the moisture that causes the misting when turning off the aircon is from a pool of undrained water in the aircon evaporator casing. Once this has dried out the car will be mist free, using the aircon tops up this pool of water and causes mist when the aircon is turned off. My conclusion is the evaporator does not drain completely and causes misting until it dries out after the aircon is turned off.

EDIT -

If you stand by the drivers side front wheel and look (with a torch) down and across the back of the engine you can see the evaporator drain. It is a short open ended rubber pipe bent rearwards, oddly it drains onto the engine undertray, you can also see the pipe in the passenger footwell.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on December 19, 2016, 10:31:55 AM
You are right, IMHO using the aircon all the time not only builds up a reserve of moisture in the system,  it also encourages bacteria and fungus / mould to breed (which thrive in the humidity) - these cause bad smell,  but even more worrying can cause asthma attacks and general bad health (the 'sick office syndrome' which makes office worker ill was blamed on pathogens breeding in the airconditioning pipework and filters combined with sealed windows which allowed no fresh air in).

I normally use the 'clear screen' feature in certain cases (even to cool the car down in summer),  but other wise will only run the aircon once a week to keep it in decent shape.   I do not like the way that when you select 'auto' the system forgets all your manual settings and you have to tweak them back in when you revert to manual,  also system will not keep a stable temperature when not in auto with aircon on, even when outside temperature is well below the temperature you select and you would think aircon would not be required as all you need is heat  :-X
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on December 19, 2016, 11:21:09 AM
I'm not convinced that lack of aircon running is the problem. My aircon is always running (or ready to run if conditions require it). Climate control is part of why I bought the Jazz and as I've said before I always use automation if it's available. I set my car's heating to 19 degrees and expect it to maintain that.

But with the Mk3 I'm finding that if I leave the vent position to 'foot and screen' everything seems fine. It doesn't even seem to need the dedicated defrost setting on cold nights. I'm not sure why I didn't do that on the Mk2 but I think that perhaps it ran the fan at full speed on that setting and eventually pumped out cold air for no obvious reason. I haven't yet driven my Mk3 far enough in this mode to know if the cold air 'feature' will strike but should find out this weekend.

But hopefully we at least have a partial fix to the issue. I still maintain that it's not working correctly because it is designed to move the airflow around to where it's needed. But the workaround is good enough.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: Skyrider on December 19, 2016, 11:31:35 AM
you would think aircon would not be required as all you need is heat  :-X

That depends on whether you want your warm air dehumidified. Hot and humid is not nice.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on December 19, 2016, 01:04:00 PM
you would think aircon would not be required as all you need is heat  :-X

That depends on whether you want your warm air dehumidified. Hot and humid is not nice.

Except on very few occasions the ambient air in UK is normally dryer than inside a house or car (where higher humidity is caused by human activity, one of these activities is breathing).  The colder air in winter is pretty dry and warming it through the heater only is fine with me, but I still can't figure why the stupid system cannot keep a decent temperature in cold temperatures without aircon (cooling) I could always manage it with two rotary controls, one for fan speed and one with red and blue on it for temperature adjustment. It is just as though when you turn aircon off it also switches off the temperature sensors, that's the problem with auto systems designed by a nerd, they don't look at all scenarios or user preferences.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on December 19, 2016, 03:12:46 PM
Except on very few occasions the ambient air in UK is normally dryer than inside a house or car (where higher humidity is caused by human activity, one of these activities is breathing).  The colder air in winter is pretty dry and warming it through the heater only is fine with me,

In recent weeks local weather has been cold and heavy mist, in other words very humid conditions which the aircon gets rid of by monitoring the humidity as well as the temperature.

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: culzean on December 19, 2016, 04:53:45 PM
Except on very few occasions the ambient air in UK is normally dryer than inside a house or car (where higher humidity is caused by human activity, one of these activities is breathing).  The colder air in winter is pretty dry and warming it through the heater only is fine with me,

In recent weeks local weather has been cold and heavy mist, in other words very humid conditions which the aircon gets rid of by monitoring the humidity as well as the temperature.

Vic.

I agree, when there is visible humidity or a load of wet people just climbed into your car aircon will help, but still puzzled why system loses temp control when aircon is off - it's not logical captain !
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on December 19, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
still puzzled why system loses temp control when aircon is off - it's not logical captain !

As I never turn the aircon off I have never noticed this phenomenon although I do run the system in manual as I don't like the auto's choice of fan speed or distribution. In manual the auto temperature control still works so I'll turn the aircon off and see what happens.
Would this mean that when the outside temp is below about 4C and the aircon shuts off, the auto temp control no longer works ?

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: VicW on December 21, 2016, 07:07:47 PM
Played around today with temp control.
A reminder that I run my system in manual but the auto temp control still works in manual.
With the system warmed up I turned the aircon off and the temp initially went up slightly but settled back to selected temp. Turned temp selection up and temp rose.Turned temp selection down and temp dropped.
Turned aircon back on and initially the temp dropped slightly but returned to selected temp.
As far as I can tell the temp setting works with the aircon off.

Vic.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: peteo48 on December 21, 2016, 09:11:06 PM
One thing I'm doing at the moment is leaving the Climate Control on all the time so that it is running as soon as you turn the key. Might be just my imagination but the misting problems seem much less pronounced. In summer I will turn off from time to time but, for winter running, always on seems to work best for me.
Title: Re: Honda still can't get cabin ventilation right
Post by: andruec on December 27, 2016, 09:22:26 AM
Car seemed fine set to 'feet+screen' so at least that's one thing Honda have improved. I'll not say 'fixed' until/unless I can drive everywhere with my climate control on auto though.