Author Topic: LED headlights.  (Read 14171 times)

jazzaro

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2018, 11:18:03 PM »
Legal in USA as well,  Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
Oh, no, I don't think so..
This kind of led lamps cannot be legal because of their geometry: halogen reflectors are made considering the position and thickness of the tungsten coils, and led lamps cannot replicate this two parameters; we will be allowed to use led lamps only when LED will replicate the geometry of an halogen one, and I think it's a good thing: we need  better brightness, but also less glaring.
Anyway, ECE are the best regulations in the world concerning lighting car equipment: americans envy us our projectors because we have better light distribution, less glaring, more performance (adaptive matrix here are allowed); state of the art lighting technologies come from european and japanese brands (AL, Hella, OSRAM, Philips, Koito, Stanley), so I think (for headlights) you'd better to keep following european rules...

ColinB

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2018, 08:43:06 AM »
Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
I find nothing wrong with the lights on my Jazz, they may not be the latest tech but they are perfectly adequate. I can’t recall ever being in a situation where I’ve thought “If only my lights were brighter”.  If the standard lights are as bad as people are implying, Honda would be being lobbied by consumer organisations to improve them, and they’re not. So bright LEDs are not necessary, they are a personal preference. If someone chooses to pay more for that preference then that’s their choice (and is what I would consider a fashion choice). Personally, I do not want really bright LED arrays such as you see on some marques because I’ve been on the receiving end of those and I like to think I’m decent enough not to want to inflict that on other people.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicle/v/honda/fit-4-door-wagon
This is the IIHS rating about Jazz headlights... Ok, they use SAE/DOT regulations so their headlights are slightly different from our ones, but the problem here is the technology used, old and cheap.
Care is needed here. That test was not on a UK spec car, for example it didn’t have high-beam assist - fitted as standard to my Jazz - which they say would have improved the rating. What other differences were there ? It was (probably) a LHD car, so it’s not clear how comments about brightness on left and right side of the road would read across to UK geometry. Nor did they adjust the vertical alignment, despite Honda having provided a handy little wheel by the driver’s knee, and the handbook saying you should do this to compensate for different car loading: they just left it in whatever position it was in when the car was delivered, which may not have been the optimum.

Jocko

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2018, 08:54:32 AM »
I have no complaints about the quality or quantity of light my standard headlights put out. Perfect for the night driving I do.
Have you recently driven a car with a really good light equipment?
Only a 67 plate Jazz SE.

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2018, 10:24:31 AM »
Legal in USA as well,  Europe is slow to take up new technology as usual, maybe in UK we can get them made legal after 2019 when we have left the technological backwater..
Oh, no, I don't think so..
This kind of led lamps cannot be legal because of their geometry: halogen reflectors are made considering the position and thickness of the tungsten coils, and led lamps cannot replicate this two parameters; we will be allowed to use led lamps only when LED will replicate the geometry of an halogen one, and I think it's a good thing: we need  better brightness, but also less glaring.
Anyway, ECE are the best regulations in the world concerning lighting car equipment: americans envy us our projectors because we have better light distribution, less glaring, more performance (adaptive matrix here are allowed); state of the art lighting technologies come from european and japanese brands (AL, Hella, OSRAM, Philips, Koito, Stanley), so I think (for headlights) you'd better to keep following european rules...

You obviously did not look at the bulbs in this link very well ( https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v  John Ratsey post earlier in this thread   ),  in what way does that LED array not replicate the same size, shape and position in the reflector that a filament does -  it even has the same shrouds under the dipped LED chips that you find in a filament bulb,  also have a look at the beam photos I posted in an earlier thread https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.msg55907#msg55907   - There are some headlight revolution youtube tests of various LED bulbs,  some I agree were absolute pants as far as light placement and beam pattern was concerned - but Philips Z-ES LED chips come out really well in all departments.  Have a look at the photographs and diagrams (one has standard H4 filament and LED side by side and has dimensions)

The classicarleds bulbs are so well made you could be forgiven for thinking they were made by NASA for one of their space missions.


 I was speaking with a guy on an American motorbike forum the other day and he confirmed LED are Department of Transport approved in USA.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 11:05:47 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Skyrider

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2018, 01:40:36 PM »
Better, (and illegal in the UK) headlights may be useful to the boy racers, geriatric or otherwise, who want to drive fast in the dark or are part of the modified car scene, but they mark you as a poser to be avoided by many other drivers. There is a traffic light controlled crossroads near me where the opposing road is slightly uphill towards the lights. I have been totally blinded while stopped at the red waiting to turn right by a Range Rover on dipped xenon discharge lights waiting on the slope.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 09:33:18 PM by Deeps »

Skyrider

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culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2018, 04:57:29 PM »

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving/2018-03/modern-headlight-brightness-causing-safety-dangers/

'and LED headlights, which are said to produce a light more similar to daylight that's less likely to dazzle drivers, are also used.'

Some German staff car HID are over 9000K,  which is very blue and dazzling as human eye is sensitive to blue,  LED are in the 4500 to 6000K which is daylight colour and easy on the eye.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 07:48:11 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2018, 04:58:53 PM »
I don't experience much of a problem with oncoming traffic - no different than it ever was. However for the last few years I've set my rear view mirror to anti dazzle at night and during the week in winter it stays that way all the time since I don't drive in daylight on my commute.

culzean

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2018, 05:06:39 PM »
I don't experience much of a problem with oncoming traffic - no different than it ever was. However for the last few years I've set my rear view mirror to anti dazzle at night and during the week in winter it stays that way all the time since I don't drive in daylight on my commute.

One of the great benefits of the rear window spoiler on the Civic is that it keeps 99% of following headlights out of your interior mirror, only time I have a problem is a 4x4 , SUV on my bumper in slow traffic, and that is because the headlights are higher than the spoiler.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2018, 09:43:45 PM »

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/driving/2018-03/modern-headlight-brightness-causing-safety-dangers/
HID bulbs are specifically mentioned but it's unclear to me whether aftermarket LED bulbs will also be an automatic failure. Does anyone have a reliable reference?

However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

andruec

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2018, 10:01:23 PM »
However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.

The only reason human drivers need to dip their lights as soon as another car comes into view is because we aren't quick enough and/or don't know enough about the shape of our lights to determine when the driver will enter the primary beam. A correctly programmed computer with a camera can determine when a vehicle is likely to be dazzled and doesn't need to dip the headlights until it's actually about to happen.

d2d4j

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2018, 10:20:09 PM »
Hi

Sorry maybe it’s just me, but bright lights are attractive to eyes. My eyes automatically look at bright lights momentarily and then it’s a black spot after

No computer can stop this and that is why when I learned to drive, it was frowned upon to not dip headlights when approaching traffic was near and not when the traffic was directly in front of you

I enjoyed night time driving better then day time until people stopped dipping headlights upon approaching vehicles and been dazzled.

[removed by Admin]

I do have to say though, it tends to be big 4x4 and German cars

It is annoying and lights should not be left to computers

Many thanks

John
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:10:31 AM by RichardA »

ColinB

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2018, 09:04:21 AM »
However, the auto mainbeam on my HR-V isn't clever enough so that's when my LED bulbs sometimes cause unwanted dazzling of others. Perhaps auto mainbeam is something that's something which the people writing the regulations need to look at.
How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.

The only reason human drivers need to dip their lights as soon as another car comes into view is because we aren't quick enough and/or don't know enough about the shape of our lights to determine when the driver will enter the primary beam. A correctly programmed computer with a camera can determine when a vehicle is likely to be dazzled and doesn't need to dip the headlights until it's actually about to happen.
The fallacy with this sort of argument is that it doesn’t reflect what really happens out on the road. It’s probably possible to set up some terribly clever beam shaping in a workshop, but when a car is actually moving, bouncing around and pitching, the bright lights that have been carefully set up beforehand will periodically and repeatedly shine in the wrong place. Nor does it work when the car has high-set lights (eg 4x4s) and is being driven close behind you.

Apart from anything else, it’s just plain rude to shine really bright lights at someone when you don’t need to. However, on the plus side, it does provide a useful warning that there’s a prat driving that car (can’t always see the BMW/Audi badge at night).

John Ratsey

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2018, 10:27:02 AM »
How do you know it's dazzling them, though? Just because you are on main beam while a car is in front of you doesn't mean you are dazzling the driver. Headlights have a very specific pattern and if the drivers eyes do not lie within the primary area they will not be being dazzled. In the same way that I can illuminate your face with an electric torch but not dazzle you by pointing it to one side.
Two examples:
1. I can see the light from an approaching vehicle coming round a corner whereas the auto mainbeam waits to see the headlights before responding.
2. The auto mainbeam doesn't see a vehicle side on at a junction because it can't see the lights so will happily stay on main beam.

Maybe the next generation of technology will be able to handle these aspects better. It's a bit like the auto headlights except the consequences of when it doesn't work properly are more serious.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

VicW

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Re: LED headlights.
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2018, 02:03:42 PM »
Amazing all these automatic gizmos on your car these days, I don't know how we coped when we had to put our own lights on and select dipped beam now and again. We even had to select the wipers to on when it was raining.
Now we have got all these driving aids it means we can spend much more time sending text messages and making phone calls !

Vic.

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