Author Topic: Help with identifying engine noise  (Read 9372 times)

pg

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Help with identifying engine noise
« on: August 17, 2017, 09:33:33 PM »
Hi,

We've just bought a 2007 Honda Jazz CVT-7 with 75k miles privately. The car has full Honda service history including transmission fluid changed twice (last time a month ago) and behaved perfectly fine when we test drove it and on the way home. However, the engine now makes a noise that was not there before and I struggle to identify what exactly it is or how best to describe it. Having read through lots of other posts it seems like this could be anything from a clogged up oil filter to the engine being on the way out depending if this should be described as knocking, tapping,... etc. So I recorded the sound hoping you might be able to help?

Here are the short tracks:

Starting the engine (sounds mostly normal)
Slight revving. It might not be as noticeable from the recording but the sound responds by getting more frequent
Very slight revving
Idle - you can still hear the noise
Idle again but recording from underneath the the engine on the driver side

Only other bits I can add for now is that I've checked the oil (full), there are no warning messages or lights and that I had  the feeling it was getting better as the engine warmed up but haven't tested that properly so don't let that fool you. We filled up the tank on the way home with normal unleaded petrol from a Shell station.

Really grateful if you can help with suggestions about how best to describe the noise or what else I can do to identify the cause and get it repaired.

Many thanks,
Paul




Jocko

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 10:49:01 PM »
Welcome, Paul. Very difficult to tell. Could even be an exhaust issue. Possibly catalytic converter heat shield. Heat shields are quite a common problem on Jazz's.

Jem

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2017, 01:55:17 AM »
That is hard to tell. It sounds like a decent rattle. I would hope it might be something like the exhaust blowing or rattling some how. I hope that is not from the engine. It does not sound like a heat shield to me as I had one recently rattle and it was a lot higher pitch and it was more noticeable when driving.

JohnAlways

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 10:23:52 AM »
Well as a deaf old bugger just sounds like tappets to me.

Jocko

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 10:32:59 AM »
Well as a deaf old bugger just sounds like tappets to me.
Tappets don't normally come on suddenly, unless of the hydraulic variety, which these aint. It would probably be a lot easier standing over the engine and listening to it than trying to listen to a recording. Levels are not relevant with a recording.
Best bet would be to get someplace like Kwik Fit to check the exhaust, and if that's okay, get a local small garage to give it a quick listen. Neither option would cost anything to do the check.

culzean

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2017, 01:08:42 PM »
If it gets better as engine warms up and is in synch with engine revs it may be piston slap,  annoying but not going to do any damage.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

pg

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2017, 01:26:43 PM »
Thanks very much everyone for your time and thoughts. We will definitely get someone to have a closer look though the next appointment I got was for next Friday. In the meantime is there anything else we could usefully do to narrow it down further?

We'll go for a longer drive this weekend to confirm if it gets better as the engine warms up or not.

MikeG1944

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2017, 01:34:34 PM »
If you have any mates who have a code reader it would be worth seeing if it throws up error codes. However a good mechanic can usually just listen and diagnose any common problems. Doing it every day they get so used to hearing anything unusual.

Jocko

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2017, 01:38:18 PM »
I would get the exhaust checked first. An exhaust place, like Kwik Fit or the like, will just check it for you when you turn up at their door. They will give you a price, if an exhaust is what you need, and you can go away and think about it or even get a better quote.
If it is something serious, I wouldn't want to be driving it any more than you need to. But the more I listen to the clips, the more I think it is your exhaust. Lie down at the side of the driver's door and check the middle box. It is just behind the sill. Mine started off something like that, just before it broke completely. Check the front of the middle box.

guest5079

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2017, 02:15:16 PM »
If you have checked the exhaust and it is OK and you are still concerned, it is possible to trace where a noise comes from with a large screw driver. Just lightly  rest the blade  against parts of the engine NOWHERE near the plugs and put you ear against the handle, lightly. By moving it around It may identify where on the engine the noise is coming from. Be prepared for all sorts of wierd noises but your particular concern will be much louder. On the other hand if you have access to a stethoscope!!!!!!!
I haven't listened to your noises here as I am deaf.

sparky Paul

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2017, 03:53:16 PM »
I don't think I would go anywhere near that racket with a stethoscope!

I'm with Jocko on this, definitely sounds exhausty to me - claasic front pipe sound is a low growl/burble, with a clatter when revved. Could be anywhere from exhaust manifold gasket, front pipe joint gasket, front pipe to middle - certainly forward of the middle box. Look for any sooty deposits.

If it is the front pipe, unfortunately it's part of the cat - mind you, they're only about £60 on fleabay for an approved type. Not bad!
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 04:07:04 PM by sparky Paul »

Jocko

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 04:43:36 PM »
My cat, after returning old unit, cost me £85.

pg

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2017, 10:58:47 AM »
Thanks again everyone for your suggestions and thoughts. We went to Kwik Fix yesterday morning and could hear the noise quite well. They were busy and only looked at the car around lunchtime. They could not hear any noise by then, took it for a test drive and again couldn't hear the noise. When I picked up the car in the afternoon the noise was indeed very muted and became even more so on the drive home. It was a sunny day (same as when we bought the car) so it looks like it this is getting better as the engine / car warms up and might be something that was there before we bought the car.

I'll take it to another local repair shop on Friday to take a look when it is cold.


Jocko

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 11:13:13 AM »
If it goes away as it warms up, then tappets may be the issue. They should get checked every 24,000 miles but from what I have read, seldom need attention. As the engine warms up the clearances reduce, as does the rattle.
Someone else mentioned piston slap, but that only happens, in my experience, with old worn engines. Modern engines last for ever, compared to the engines of old, and I would be extremely surprised if a modern Honda (or any other manufacturer's) engine showed signs of piston slap after only 80K miles.

culzean

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Re: Help with identifying engine noise
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2017, 12:20:38 PM »
Someone else mentioned piston slap, but that only happens, in my experience, with old worn engines. Modern engines last for ever, compared to the engines of old, and I would be extremely surprised if a modern Honda (or any other manufacturer's) engine showed signs of piston slap after only 80K miles.

piston slap is quite common on newer designs of engines with smaller skirts and other friction reducing stuff,  but it normally only happens in winter until engine warmed up.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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