Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 693358 times)

sparky Paul

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #525 on: November 21, 2017, 06:16:35 PM »

Err NO.


Is that 'NO. you haven't noticed that', or 'NO, it doesn't happen'?

VicW

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #526 on: November 21, 2017, 06:48:07 PM »
Interesting article from Autoexpress on EV charging. It looks like charging your car at some points could be as nearly as expensive as petrol or diesel. I assume most charging would be done at home if you can park off road.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-tech/electric-cars/96638/electric-car-charging-in-the-uk-prices-networks-charger-types-and-top?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpress_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 06:51:40 PM by VicW »

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #527 on: November 21, 2017, 09:53:02 PM »
I think the majority of people with an EV will charge at home. Chargers you have to pay to use will, for most, be a distress purchase. Like buying coffee and a sandwich at the airport! The reason I do not have an EV is because I cannot have a home charger. Once we move to the house an EV will be top of my purchase list, though I doubt my wife will put such a high priority on one.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #528 on: November 22, 2017, 08:53:59 AM »
HMRC are not going to take loss of fuel duty lying down, it is a large contributor to treasury coffers, my guess is that because government cannot put price of domestic electricity up without unfairly penalising every user they may either introduce smart meters with special tariff for charging (A chip in the vehicle charging socket may well communicate with a receiver in the charging plug to make a higher tariff for vehicle charging use)  or a charge per mile specifically for EV,  which will by law have to be fitted with GPS trackers or similar (and to hell with the privacy issues). Maybe to even things up they may have to remove fuel duty from petrol, diesel and LPG and go completely over to road pricing.

Apparently meters are now smart enough to know whether they are metering power from 'clean' wind and solar or 'dirty' coal, nuclear and gas,  knowing when an EV is plugged in will be a doddle. 

If you think that cost of running EV is gonna stay low because governments want to save the planet etc. we are having austerity cuts to everything at the moment, they will not give up a rich source of funds like road users.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/26/treasury-tax-electric-cars-vat-fuel-duty
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 09:01:12 AM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #529 on: November 22, 2017, 10:06:37 AM »
There is no doubt about it, the government will still want their pound of flesh. I think it will have to be done with metering on the charging circuit. If they do it on miles driven, that will hit motorists with their own electricity supply (either PV or wind). It will also hit drivers with a light touch and not those that drive hard all the time. And regenerative braking won't be all that necessary, other than to extend range.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #530 on: November 22, 2017, 10:18:36 AM »
I am not sure they will clobber electricity - too complicated to separate out what is used for domestic use given that 90% of EV charging will be done at home. The likely targets will be road pricing and/or vehicle excise duty.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #531 on: November 22, 2017, 10:20:43 AM »
I think the majority of people with an EV will charge at home. Chargers you have to pay to use will, for most, be a distress purchase. Like buying coffee and a sandwich at the airport! The reason I do not have an EV is because I cannot have a home charger. Once we move to the house an EV will be top of my purchase list, though I doubt my wife will put such a high priority on one.

Just out of interest Jocko - have you thought about what you will get?

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #532 on: November 22, 2017, 10:27:14 AM »
There is no doubt about it, the government will still want their pound of flesh. I think it will have to be done with metering on the charging circuit. If they do it on miles driven, that will hit motorists with their own electricity supply (either PV or wind). It will also hit drivers with a light touch and not those that drive hard all the time. And regenerative braking won't be all that necessary, other than to extend range.

Those people with their own power supply will still be using road infrastructure so HMRC may increase VED on leccy vehicles,   fuel duty should help to keep the roads usable - not sure what VED pays for (apparently DVLA have lost about £400 million in revenue since tax disc was abolished,  and that includes the 'savings' they were gonna make by getting rid of discs LOL),  but council tax pays for roughly 25% of road repairs locally (in theory,  but does not seem to cover repairing potholes,   When income is cut the government and local councils always seem to cut the most obvious things ( like road repairs and cleaning road signs etc.) so that people will notice them more. 

https://news.sky.com/story/wrong-turn-car-tax-disc-abolition-costly-as-evasion-trebles-11128854

Governments are still capable of stupid use of taxpayers money even in times of austerity .......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101000/MPs-spend-400k-taxpayers-money-12-fig-trees-offices.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2342045/120billion-money-drain-EVERY-year-The-astonishing-Whitehall-waste-send-British-family-annual-luxury-holiday.html
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #533 on: November 22, 2017, 10:32:27 AM »
Governments are still capable of stupid use of taxpayers money even in times of austerity .......
We will probably see a perfect example of that - somehow - after this afternoon's Budget!

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #534 on: November 22, 2017, 11:03:34 AM »
On the subject of revenue and smart meters for EV charging, whilst slightly off subject in a way relevant. A few years back a neighbour who drove a coach asked if we would be interested in Christmas in Austria. Given the price we jumped at the chance and it was one of the best holidays we have ever had.
Somewhere in Austria, Henry the neighbour filled up with diesel. Off he went to pay. The time ticked on and no Henry and after some time a police car arrived. Eventually Henry came back to tell us that the previous driver had removed the 'black box'. This was the problem. As I understand it this box was mandatory in Austria and other countries maybe. It recorded information about the vehicle etc in order that the Austrian authorities could either charge duty on the vehicle or the fuel.
Now given the huge amount of duty that will be lost if the EV takes off, it would appear the technology is there and well tested.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #535 on: November 22, 2017, 02:10:47 PM »
See the government is allocating £540m to support the growth of electric cars, including more charging points. They want to see Britain leading the world in EV and Autonomous technology, and rightly so.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #536 on: November 22, 2017, 04:12:40 PM »
See the government is allocating £540m to support the growth of electric cars, including more charging points. They want to see Britain leading the world in EV and Autonomous technology, and rightly so.

Using taxpayer money to install charging points is like using  taxpayers money to build petrol stations, which would never happen.  Electrical power suppliers should fund charging points and then charge market rates to users i.e.. cost of electricity plus cost of installing ( to get payback in a reasonable time) and maintaining infrastructure.
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peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #537 on: November 22, 2017, 05:42:51 PM »
See the government is allocating £540m to support the growth of electric cars, including more charging points. They want to see Britain leading the world in EV and Autonomous technology, and rightly so.

Using taxpayer money to install charging points is like using  taxpayers money to build petrol stations, which would never happen.  Electrical power suppliers should fund charging points and then charge market rates to users i.e.. cost of electricity plus cost of installing ( to get payback in a reasonable time) and maintaining infrastructure.

I think the government would say, with some justification, that subsidising charging points all helps towards the removal of polluting petrol and especially diesel vehicles off our roads thus improving health and reducing the burden on the NHS. There is also the issue of climate change.......................

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #538 on: November 22, 2017, 06:16:52 PM »
The reason the Chancellor gave was Clean Air. If they can invest heavily in Hinkley Point, to phase out coal, they can help the uptake of EVs.
As an aside, they have just released figures for the Top 10 CO2 producers in Scotland.
http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/environment/mossmorran-third-biggest-in-scotland-for-green-house-gases-1-4619216

As expected, the petrochemical plants come out worst, but it is the Biomass power station at Number 9 that I was concerned about.
And talking about concern - there has not been much said aboutthe suspected Russian nuclear accident! The Institute for Radioprotection and Nuclear Safety (IRSN) said on 9 November it had detected ruthenium-106 in France. It added that the source of contamination could have been an accident at a nuclear facility in either Russia or Kazakhstan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42064192

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #539 on: November 22, 2017, 06:19:57 PM »
There is also the issue of climate change.......................

The planets climate has been changing since it was formed, Humans can only live in a very narrow band of temperature, what really surprises me is how and why the climate has been so accommodating to us for so long (even though it is only a fleeting millisecond in the history of the Planet).

We cannot stop using oil even if world goes fully electric,  we can only do without oil if we are willing to go without roads, medicines, fertilizers, plastics etc. etc. etc. and all the other stuff we get from oil.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 06:23:13 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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