Honda refuse to fix my car

[Tom18437]

Honda refuse to fix my car. Honda say there is no fault. Please Help!

My Mk3 Honda Jazz 2019, bought from new, started having difficulty selecting first and second gears after 2,500 miles of use.  Honda tried to fix it 7 times including replacing the gear synchro hub assembly, gearbox and clutch casings and bearings, all under the cars warranty. The cost billed by the Honda garage to Honda direct was over £2,300.

Unable to fix the fault, Honda UK now say there is no fault...Honda say this is how the car is designed.

The video shows a typical 13 minute drive with many gear changes, most are normal and show how the first and second gears typically engage properly. There are 5 occasions when the changes are difficult (click below for times). This happens on most journeys and is very frustrating as I have to either force the change or quickly return to neutral and try again. I've been driving with this problem for over a year, if anybody has any advise, please add a comment below or on the original YouTube video.

Difficult gear change examples at:
01:20 Faulty gear change
05:05 Faulty gear change
06:35 Faulty gear change
07:58 Faulty gear change
09:27 Faulty gear change

Also the clutch makes strange noises:

[Marco1979]

Very unfortunate! Honda cannot hide behind 'this is how it is supposed to be', otherwise they have tried to fix it 7 times while there was nothing wrong with it. You are in your right as a customer to complain about faults and ask your supplier to repair it. Since this is not done properly, you may return the car and ask for your money back. Thing is that it has been going on for quite a while, which is a bit of a hassle (might be out of warranty now, but not when you first complained about it).

Maybe you could go to an independent garage (in the Netherlands I would go to the ANWB, which is an equivalent of the AA I guess). When they agree with you there is something wrong, ask Honda to take back the car and compensate you for it. If they refuse, you have a strong case in court. But you don't want that since it will be time consuming and costly.

Another option: see if your dealer has another car and ask for a very generous return value, and you might be able to solve it like that.

That said: maybe it is something very simple, like a mechanical blockage of the clutch pedal or the gear lever, making it stick a tiny little bit? Can you feel something when it happens, like a dead spot in the pedal or a resistance at a certain point in the gear lever position?

[Wilmo]

Gearchange - our 1.5 Sport is a bit notchy in 1st & 2nd but are you sure that what you are seeing is the result of a narrow gate on the gear selector and the lever being pushed too far left as you change?

None of those gear changes were at the top end of the box to compare.

Clutch -  that sounds like the pedal coming up and hitting the stop in the bracket.

Methinks you dost complain too much, to quote Mr Shakespeare.

[Tom18437]

Hi, The car was accessed (test driven) each of the seven times by a Honda technician, who having acknowledge a problem, took the car in to try to resolve the fault. Honda themselves (independently) constantly found fault, but could not find the obvious cause. After a year of unsuccessful attempts and over 15 weeks of my car in Honda's possession, Honda UK were contacted. Honda UK refused to accept the car is faulty (three times) and would not proceed any further with a repair, despite Honda's own garage proving again and again that it is.

[equaliser]

That just looks like a typical manual gearbox when new, they can baulk a bit. I can tell you from experience that it will get much better after 5000 to 10000 miles. Try double declutching when going into 1st gear. I've has this issue in all the new manual cars I've had which is why I got the CVT this time round.

[Tom18437]

The car didn't have the problem for the first 2,000 miles of use, it developed after this time. While the video can not demonstrate the feel of the fault, the confirmation by the Honda technicians who tested the car on 7 separate occasions, acknowledged the fault and attempted to repair the fault on 7 separate occasions confirms in their professional opinions that the car is indeed faulty.

[Jocko]

Try contacting the Motor Ombudsman.

https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/sold-a-faulty-car-what-can-i-do#:~:text=The%20Motor%20Ombudsman%20is%20a,the%20resolve%20a%20dispute%20page.

[Marco1979]

It is a good thing that your dealer acknowledges the fault. I had something similar when I changed from a 2007 Civic Hybrid to a 2010 Civic Hybrid (new): the suspension was bumpier, the ride harsher, some rattles in the interior and my hands experienced some tingling after driving for more than 20 minutes.

Long story short: dealer tried to fix it about 4 or 5 times, without much improvement. Then the manager came to me for a chat and he said he thought he could not make me happy with it and suggested if I was willing to trade it in. Reason 1: it could not be resolved fully and reason 2: I did not have a click with the car and would hear / feel / see anything which was slightly off. And so I did trade it in (for 2 (!) 2010 Jazz 1.2, new; 1 to replace my parents 2004 Jazz 1.4 and 1 instead of the Civic. Very happy with both, for many years).

So you can try to figure it out with your dealer.

[Kremmen]

A long time ago a friend bought a Peugeot 109 from a main dealer. He realised fairly quickly that something was wrong with the rear end so phoned the dealer who told him to bring it in.

As he was working every day he got his dad to take it to the dealers.

When he arrived the dealer didn't twig and thought it was an owner with a problem so told him to leave it and took a phone number. After a while they phoned him, told him they'd found the problem and it needed a new rear axle and asked for permission to proceed which he obviously agreed to.

When finished they phoned him to collect. When he arrived they presented him with the bill to which he said it was under warranty.

The dealer was furious and said they should have been told as they wouldn't have performed the amount of work they did. His dad just said he'd been told to drop the car off for inspection and assumed it had all been arranged. Plus, he commented about would it have been a cheapo bodge job.

The moral of the story is that under warranty don't always expect the sort of repair you would get if you were paying.

Every fault can be fixed.
 

[Wilmo]

Dealers get told how long the job should take so will only get paid for that time by the manufacturer.

That's why they don't like them and agree through gritted teeth.

[Jocko]

I once went into KwikFit with a dodgy battery. After checking it the manager told me the battery was shot and needed to be replaced. That is when I produced the original receipt with two months of my warranty still to go!

[Wilmo]

Did similar to my local Honda dealer.
Bought a TypeR from another Honda dealer which had a problem with the rear shock.
Took it to them and "that's a new shock sir, £250+".
What I said, could get Sachs ones for £60.
"But this is genuine Honda, sir"

Good job I've got a genuine Honda approved used warranty then said I!

[Lord Voltermore]

Dealers get told how long the job should take so will only get paid for that time by the manufacturer.

That's why they don't like them and agree through gritted teeth.

Also they now needed to justify to the manufacturer that the replacement was really necessary ,knowing they might examine the part to see why  it failed (or maybe didnt)  Customers are easier to fleece. 

When I had a jeep the dealer mistook me for a gullible cash cow and tried to get me to approve £1000 to replace both rear springs complete   because a small leaf clamp was missing from one .  " Because  Chrysler dont list the clamps  separately" . (It was only about 20 years ago yet chrysler were still using leaf springs as fitted to horse carts  ) The dealer  even brought in a very embarrassed  mechanic who mumbled something about it being an MOT failure before hurrying off  in shame.      (MOT not due at the time )  .    I refused and replaced the clamp myself . It took 5 minutes and cost £2  .   When I later had an MOT, at an independent garage, I asked if he would have failed it if the clamp had been missing. He said no.      The Jeep Dealership is now a drive through Macdonalds. 

[Jazzfan49]

For my sins I once owned a series of FIATS and the last one a 1993 Tipo Forza went in for a service, the following day on my way to work the oil light came on together with an unexpected rattle, pulled up and found the sump contents all over the engine bay caused by the garage not properly fitting a cam cover gasket, after replacing 3 camshafts and buckets without success they stripped the engine and found small end conrod bushes worn and rebuilt the engine, within a few days the rattle returned so this time the mechanic read the service bulletin and found some cars had faulty oil pumps, new pump fitted along with half the engine internals but after a few days the rattling returned although not as bad as beforehand.
FIAT refused to replace the engine with a new one but the dealer wanted to but was overruled by the company, in the end I was palmed off with a 2 year extended warranty as they only offered me half of what I paid for it 6 months previously so I kept it a couple of months before trading it in, I just wished I had involved trading standards rather than trying to fight the manufacturer, I hope you get the best outcome to your problems.
 

[Toptek]

Had 3 FIATs in the 90s and into early 2000s. Two Tipos and a Punto. The Punto was okay but the second Tipo was a disaster, purchased on a long HP deal with a matching warranty. Pretty much everything failed, some twice. It started raining on the 3rd night and a glove box of water fell out turning the corner, together with the digital dash going out.
Come the end of the week, the windscreen wiper linkage broke on one wiper. This became the start of frequent visits to the dealership.