Electric cars

[culzean]

Nissan investing over £13billion in UK,  meanwhile over in Germany Tesla struggling to build their gigafactory in the face of Red tape and Germanys favourite word, regulations... ( bureaucracy )... bet Musk wishes he had chosen UK

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nissan-stresses-importance-uk-plant-112027109.html

[Neil Ives]

This seems strange considering that Nissan is half owned by Renault. You would think that post Brexit they'd be making cars in France. I suppose us UK taxpayers have sweetened the reasons to stay in the UK.

[Jayt43]

Nissan investing over £13billion in UK, meanwhile over in Germany Tesla struggling to build their gigafactory in the face of Red tape and Germanys favourite word, regulations... ( bureaucracy )... bet Musk wishes he had chosen UK

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nissan-stresses-importance-uk-plant-112027109.html

Please actually READ the article you yourself posted. It says Nissan announces a £13 billion investment in EVs GLOBALLY over the next 5 years. NOT solely in the UK.

Instead, the EV36zero build hub ( https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/210701-03-e ) totals £1 billion in UK investment of which £423 million will be set aside to produce a new-generation crossover, with the remainder being the Envision AESC battery Gigafactory. Here's a big infographic if that makes it easier to understand: http://articles.nissannews.com/hidden_posts/EV36Zero_Infographic.pdf

Meanwhile, the somewhat larger Tesla investment (ranging from $4 billion - $6.9 billion, depending upon whether you believe Wikipedia or Reuters) is nearing completion.

As the site partly overlaps a drinking water protection zone and borders on a nature reserve, there have certainly been objections from locals and environmentalists, of which the final round was heard on November 22nd.

So, currently the site has preliminary construction permits, but can only open after receiving its final production permits (expected December or January 2022).

Therefore, when you say "struggling to build", that's not entirely true...

Largely piping remains to be completed (as objections centred around waste from the plant).

As for German bureaucracy, yes, you can certainly cite the new Berlin Airport as a prime example! But equally the words HS2 are an equivalent example in the UK. Maybe I could also throw Crossrail 2 into the mix...

Presumably along with your thoughts on Covid, you are also a Brexiteer. I respect your views on both. However, the problem with Brexit success stories so far is that they're hard to find. Seemingly to the point that you're re-writing articles to claim some sort of UK victory over the nasty Germans.

However, the feeling in Europe is that Brexit is done, the UK made a choice and that's fine - whichever way. But we'll adjust accordingly and ignore / bypass the UK where necessary (neatly summed up by the following):

https://theloadstar.com/brexit-proves-to-be-a-boon-for-ireland-europe-direct-services/

[Jocko]

Watched a piece on 5th Gear Recharged last night and they did a comparison between the running costs of a Vauxhall Astra ICE and an Astra EV.
They took 4 years PCP, the most common way of getting a new car these days, 7,500 miles a year which is the average mileage covered and dealer servicing. They took EV charging at home but just at regular tariff. Over the four years, the EV was the cheaper option of the two. And if you have a cheap overnight rate it is even more of a bonus in favour of the EV.

[guest9236]

Watched a piece on 5th Gear Recharged last night and they did a comparison between the running costs of a Vauxhall Astra ICE and an Astra EV.
They took 4 years PCP, the most common way of getting a new car these days, 7,500 miles a year which is the average mileage covered and dealer servicing. They took EV charging at home but just at regular tariff. Over the four years, the EV was the cheaper option of the two. And if you have a cheap overnight rate it is even more of a bonus in favour of the EV.

Assuming you have enough electricity available on demand.
 The Astra ICE would have been of much more use recently in the areas without electricity, some poor souls are STILL without due to Storms etc that happen very frequently and thus so will the availability of electricity.??!

[Jayt43]

Watched a piece on 5th Gear Recharged last night and they did a comparison between the running costs of a Vauxhall Astra ICE and an Astra EV.
They took 4 years PCP, the most common way of getting a new car these days, 7,500 miles a year which is the average mileage covered and dealer servicing. They took EV charging at home but just at regular tariff. Over the four years, the EV was the cheaper option of the two. And if you have a cheap overnight rate it is even more of a bonus in favour of the EV.

Assuming you have enough electricity available on demand.
 The Astra ICE would have been of much more use recently in the areas without electricity, some poor souls are STILL without due to Storms etc that happen very frequently and thus so will the availability of electricity.??!

Can also be written as:

"Assuming you have enough petrol available on demand. The Astra EV would have been of much more use recently in the areas without petrol, some poor souls are STILL queuing for hours to fuel up"

[guest9236]

Watched a piece on 5th Gear Recharged last night and they did a comparison between the running costs of a Vauxhall Astra ICE and an Astra EV.
They took 4 years PCP, the most common way of getting a new car these days, 7,500 miles a year which is the average mileage covered and dealer servicing. They took EV charging at home but just at regular tariff. Over the four years, the EV was the cheaper option of the two. And if you have a cheap overnight rate it is even more of a bonus in favour of the EV.
[/quote



Assuming you have enough electricity available on demand.
 The Astra ICE would have been of much more use recently in the areas without electricity, some poor souls are STILL without due to Storms etc that happen very frequently and thus so will the availability of electricity.??!

Can also be written as:

"Assuming you have enough petrol available on demand. The Astra EV would have been of much more use recently in the areas without petrol, some poor souls are STILL queuing for hours to fuel up"

[Jocko]

The government has said there will be no VED on EVs until at least 2024.
The saving described on Fifth Gear was not on cheap rate electricity but on a standard tariff.

[Jayt43]

Edited below. Sorry.

[Jayt43]

Thank you for your opinions however you seem to be using my words in the wrong context and a certain dose of sarcasm to boot. As you appear not a resident of England and therefore do not share the thoughts of most sensible people who reside here Perhaps your interest lies elsewhere.

No. Simply showing that the same argument can be applied to EVs in light of the recent petrol shortages in the UK.

Also, dangerous to assume about my background. I'm a British citizen who spends most of my time in Hungary nowadays but still have family in the UK. I think that makes me - to a degree - eligible to comment, particularly as I keep up with current events.

I would also argue that my thought processes lie within the spectrum of "most sensible" people and - as this is an interesting thread - I might care to comment from time to time.

[madasafish]

I can recall very few real petrol shortgaes in the UK - apart from panic buying. Suez in 1956 and Opec early 1970s are the only two. The local panic buying earlier this year was nothing by comparison.

I can, however, recall annual  electricity blackoouts in the 1980s and 1990s locally  - due to local cabling issues now resolved - one large one in the past five  years affected large parts of the country and of course nationwide blackouts during the early 1970s due to the miners' strikes when Edward Heath was PM.

Strangely enough no-one mentions these when EV s are discussed.

[culzean]

Thank you for your opinions however you seem to be using my words in the wrong context and a certain dose of sarcasm to boot. As you appear not a resident of England and therefore do not share the thoughts of most sensible people who reside here Perhaps your interest lies elsewhere.

No. Simply showing that the same argument can be applied to EVs in light of the recent petrol shortages in the UK.

Also, dangerous to assume about my background. I'm a British citizen who spends most of my time in Hungary nowadays but still have family in the UK. I think that makes me - to a degree - eligible to comment, particularly as I keep up with current events.

I would also argue that my thought processes lie within the spectrum of "most sensible" people and - as this is an interesting thread - I might care to comment from time to time.

We also have a shortage of electricity in UK ( are still running Biomass and coal to keep up, while importing nuclear generated electricity from France ), with prices rising by the day.... the recent rises in ICE fuels may well be planned to make electric vehicles look more attractive.  The duty on Petrol and Diesel in UK is about £0.60 per litre, and then VAT is 20% on the combined price of fuel + duty - if it wanted to the UK government could offset any price rises in crude fairly easily by reducing it massive levy on fuel, but it suits its purpose not to, to make EV economics look better in face of rising electricity costs.

[madasafish]

The recent rise in ICE fuels is due solely to oil prices where demand has increased post Covid shutdowns. It is now correcting and prices were c10% down from their peak on oil.

see https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/brent-crude-oil

No conspiracy theories needed.

[culzean]

The recent rise in ICE fuels is due solely to oil prices where demand has increased post Covid shutdowns. It is now correcting and prices were c10% down from their peak on oil.

see https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/brent-crude-oil

No conspiracy theories needed.

Just wait,  you know what happened to cigarette / tobacco duty when the government decided they should stop people smoking ( despite the fact that smokers contributed far more to the exchequer than it took to treat them ), well the same will happen with ICE fuels. People need to realise  that governments use price as a stick to guide them the way they want them to go / behave. Minimum price for alcohol is another example.

[JimSh]

The recent rise in ICE fuels is due solely to oil prices where demand has increased post Covid shutdowns. It is now correcting and prices were c10% down from their peak on oil.

see https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/brent-crude-oil

No conspiracy theories needed.

Just wait,  you know what happened to cigarette / tobacco duty when the government decided they should stop people smoking ( despite the fact that smokers contributed far more to the exchequer than it took to treat them ), well the same will happen with ICE fuels. People need to realise  that governments use price as a stick to guide them the way they want them to go / behave. Minimum price for alcohol is another example.

This seems much like your climate change arguments - it doesn't matter if people are killing themselves and others as long as they are making money. ??
 As I've posted before. Big oil is following the same ideas and using the same PR firms as tobacco did decades ago.
“From the 1950s onward, the oil and tobacco firms were using not only the same PR firms and same research institutes, but many of the same researchers,” CIEL President Carroll Muffett said in a statement. “Again and again we found both the PR firms and the researchers worked first for oil, then for tobacco,” he said.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tobacco-and-oil-industries-used-same-researchers-to-sway-public1/

https://patabook.com/news/2021/12/05/how-big-tobacco-used-bad-science-to-avoid-accountability-and-set-the-blueprint-for-big-oil/
edit added second link