Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 697104 times)

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #375 on: October 20, 2017, 06:52:59 PM »
Of course they quote a cost like that. They are trying to justify fleecing the motoring public. Image Shell putting their petrol up to £5/Litre then saying the rise was due to the cost of installing and maintaining a petrol pump and quoting £50K instead of the £7K it actually costs. You'd laugh your socks off and go elsewhere.
This story is about a man, who is not satisfied with his £100 million fortune and wants to make more by taking it out of our pockets. Typical of all big businessmen, worldwide.

I have seen figures from USA municipalities that put costs from $40,000 to $52,000 to install level 3 charging points,  you have to get the (3 phase) power to the site, pay for the actual electrical gear, prepare and concrete / tarmac the site,  pay your liability insurance in case your charger electrocutes someone etc.  etc.   Then there is an ongoing maintenance cost (including when the scrotes keep nicking your cables for the metal LOL).   Installing stuff on motorway service area is bound to be expensive as they are normally a long way from anywhere.

I will be happy when we can see the true cost being payed by EV users and then see what the economics are  - they cannot live in their taxpayer subsidised bubble for ever.  I have a feeling that private EV charging companies will want to see a return on their investment, as should government funded ones.  Tesla will want to raise their charges soon,  as they cannot keep providing a free / subsidised infrastructure and fuel  for ever - that is a terrible business model.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #376 on: October 20, 2017, 07:21:53 PM »
Tesla cannot keep providing a free / subsidised infrastructure and fuel  for ever - that is a terrible business model.
Only on cars purchased before 1st January 2018.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #377 on: October 26, 2017, 09:57:56 AM »
This morning - as I write -  Gridwatch says renewable sources provide 10% of all electricity consumed...

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #378 on: October 26, 2017, 10:18:31 AM »
It is weird their mix today. Demand is high, we are almost at max CCGT, but little or no wind in the equation. It is blowing well here and all the local turbines are turning, but the rest of the country must be becalmed in this high the weather lot are talking about.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #379 on: October 26, 2017, 01:44:49 PM »
No wind here (Staffordshire/Cheshire borders).

Next door's flag hanging lifeless..

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #380 on: October 26, 2017, 02:38:34 PM »
Haircut Tuesday. Latest on the ZOE.   I didn't realise that different manufacturers use different plugs for recharging.
Hairdresser still glad the ZOE is going. She related a trip which was well within the cars range but it was night and raining so she pulled into service area where she knew there was a charging point, for a top up while she had a coffee only to find it was out of action and the other point was a different fit. She is no shrinking violet but the episode made her a little nervous as she was on her own. Her thoughts were what would have happened had she travelled a few miles more before returning for home.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #381 on: October 26, 2017, 02:47:53 PM »
Haircut Tuesday. Latest on the ZOE.   I didn't realise that different manufacturers use different plugs for recharging.
Hairdresser still glad the ZOE is going. She related a trip which was well within the cars range but it was night and raining so she pulled into service area where she knew there was a charging point, for a top up while she had a coffee only to find it was out of action and the other point was a different fit. She is no shrinking violet but the episode made her a little nervous as she was on her own. Her thoughts were what would have happened had she travelled a few miles more before returning for home.

I think for a female who travels alone, that presently an EV is not a good choice. IMHO no matter how many charging points are fitted,  because of their location (in car parks, side of main roads etc.) there will be a good chance chance of them being vandalised, probably will have the charging cables stolen for copper scrap. After all who is going to vandalise a petrol pump on a petrol station when they are normally open 24 hours and have good CCTV.   If charging points have to be staffed like petrol stations to prevent vandalism that will both reduce the number of charging sites and push price of charging up.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 02:57:59 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #382 on: October 26, 2017, 02:55:24 PM »
No wind here (Staffordshire/Cheshire borders).

Next door's flag hanging lifeless..

Not a breath of wind in Shropshire either,  and very cloudy - which is bad news for 'renewables' today, when I looked a short while ago the gas powered CCGT (the renewables best friend) were supplying 60% of our grid power, with nuclear at 20% wind <5% and solar <3% LOL

If they keep burning gas at this rate to keep electric grid happy my CH boiler and cooker will be going out soon, followed by the house lights and TV when they use up all our gas reserves ( our only hope is fracking).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 03:04:46 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #383 on: October 26, 2017, 03:31:01 PM »
All these gas fired power stations are paid to be on call - in case renewables don't produce.
And people wonder why are bills are rising..


Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #384 on: October 27, 2017, 09:54:29 AM »
Getting back on thread, I was directed to this today.

https://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2017_10/pr0301.htm

This could be a game changer.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #385 on: October 27, 2017, 12:02:45 PM »
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/96441241/mazdas-new-skyactivx-petrol-plans-to-put-the-pressure-on-electric-vehicles

To be fair I think my brothers new Skoda 1.4 direct injection petrol works pretty much the same way,  he gets good performance (0-60 in less than 8 seconds) and good economy (60mpg+) on a run.   The main thing is getting rid of pumping losses by getting rid of the throttle butterfly found in petrol engines (but not in diesel,  which is the main reason they get better mpg, combined with the fact that diesel is heavier and more dense than petrol and contains about 20% more energy).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #386 on: October 27, 2017, 12:11:14 PM »
Getting back on thread, I was directed to this today.

https://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2017_10/pr0301.htm

This could be a game changer.

Yes definitely a game changer in the UK.. 
"320km on 6-minute, ultra-rapid recharge, triple that possible with current lithium-ion battery."

So battery capacity approx 81KWH - approx..  so to charge it requires a 810KWH connection  (6mins)  which at 240 V =approx 300amps .
The mains cables in the substations will melt.. .No UK house could charge that - the consumer unit would stop at 100Amps..

20 years to update the infrastructure.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #387 on: October 27, 2017, 01:47:26 PM »
Getting back on thread, I was directed to this today.

https://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2017_10/pr0301.htm

This could be a game changer.



20 years to update the infrastructure.

Will take longer than 20 years to decide on charging voltage and plug standards - otherwise most people will rock up at charging point and plug will not fit their car, otherwise a boot full of adaptor plugs, like travelling abroad.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #388 on: October 27, 2017, 01:55:20 PM »
What you have is battery storage in the back of your garage. That is trickle charged, by either the mains or your PV cells. When you need to charge your car in a hurry you just dump the lot.
Regarding cables, all EVs can be charged from a standard 13A plug top. Not rapidly, but charged nonetheless.
As a maintenance engineer for 50 years it was my job to look for solutions, not further problems. Not many maintenance engineers here today.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #389 on: October 27, 2017, 02:26:00 PM »

Yes definitely a game changer in the UK.. 
"320km on 6-minute, ultra-rapid recharge, triple that possible with current lithium-ion battery."

So battery capacity approx 81KWH - approx..  so to charge it requires a 810KWH connection  (6mins)  which at 240 V =approx 300amps .
The mains cables in the substations will melt.. .No UK house could charge that - the consumer unit would stop at 100Amps..

20 years to update the infrastructure.

Actually at 240 volts 1 kw = 4 amps,  so 810KW x 4 = 3,240 amps for 6 minutes - that is some cable you will need, mind you we will have superconductors at room temperature by then so cable will only be 1mm diameter (all aboard the 'Tomorrows World' bus LOL).

Just a guess but at that charging rate I guess the battery may get hot (Boeing Dreamliner fires a few years ago)  so may need to add a cooling system to battery - further increasing weight of vehicle.

When I was in maintenance we did predictive fault finding, using experience to highlight possible weak spots in equipment,  once you have found the problem the solution can be pretty straightforward.  I can see many weak spots in EV roll-out the way it is being done (by Hype and subsidies) when lack of standards and infrastructure are being ignored by clueless governments who are being advised by people with very firmly vested interests (in their own profits,  not the future of the planet).
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 02:35:40 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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