Green Party Manifesto

[Jocko]

No point in doing away with the spare wheel then carrying 100 lbs extra weight.

[sparky Paul]

Programme on BBC1 just starting now, "Meat : A Threat To Our Planet?"

[Basil]

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The human digestive system is far closer to that of most plant eating animals than that of carnivorous animals.

It's a personal choice but people chose NOT to eat meat for a variety of reasons, animal welfare, the environment, their health and fitness.

The only reason people choose to eat meat is because they've grown up eating it and have got used to the taste, there is no nutritional requirement to eat it.

[ColinB]

Here’s a conundrum (albeit slightly off topic, but relevant to the last few posts). Certain shoe shops sell shoes labelled “vegan friendly”. Presumably these don’t use animal products, but of course the leather has been replaced with plastic. Is it really better to use virtually indestructible plastic rather than biodegradable animal products ? Especially if it can be demonstrated that those animals have been reared in a humane and environmentally friendly way. Same issue arises in the real fur vs faux (aka plastic) fur debate.

On the “don’t eat meat” issue, there was an interesting piece in Countryfile on Sunday. The argument seemed to be that all beef farmers (in particular) are being tarred with the same brush and that’s penalising those who are trying to do the right things. Yes, it’s bad to slash & burn the rain forests to create pasture for beef, but producers in developed countries (eg UK) are well past that point and their beef industries are generally well-managed for minimal impact. But they’re being put out of business because of the “all beef is bad” publicity. That suggests the responsible way forward is to cut down on beef, but make sure you know where the stuff you do consume comes from.

[peteo48]

Think that is definitely the way to go Colin. The approach we have adopted is to keep our spending levels on meat the same but go for better quality and provenance. This means we eat less but also means we support British farmers who are trying to do the right thing.

[culzean]

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With meat and dairy, eggs etc. it is a case of letting other creatures ( lower down the food chain ) do the grafting and foraging and reap the benefits by eating the end product - simple really and it is why the food chain exists - otherwise there would be just plants and humans on the planet.    Just try eating grass, leaves and berries for a couple of weeks ( non of that highly processed plant stuff like Tofu ) and see how you go on that. And don't forget until farming became the norm humans had to be nomadic like a lot of other animals and follow the food, which in the case of plants is very seasonal - farming and animal husbandry meant we could form permanent settlements and  freed us from the vagaries of nature - letting us progress into what we are today - if we had stayed as vegetarians we would maybe still be living a subsistence lifestyle.  Sure people have the choice of being vegan and vegetarian today and many suffer health problems as a result and go back to eating animal products.

https://time.com/4252373/meat-eating-veganism-evolution/

Now here's a thought,  if humans go vegetarian we will also produce more methane, 9 billion + and counting veggie humans will produce way more gas than the cows, and ULEZ areas like London may have to ban humans. There will be signs up allowing omnivores in but 'sorry no vegans and veggies '...

[Basil]

I think you are wrong about lots of vegetarians and vegans who suffer health problems and have to go back to eating animal products, it's quite the opposite in my experience.

Athletes are also discovering they can perform better and are able to recover more quickly on a plant based diet.

As I said it's a personal choice but the program last night was not about eating meat or not it was about the sheer scale of the meat industry worldwide, cows now emit more greenhouse gas than all forms of transport combined.

Brazil being the biggest producer/exporter of beef worldwide, they continually clear vast areas of rain forest for the production of animal feed used throughout Europe, including the UK.

[peteo48]

I think there can be an issue, if you go vegetarian or vegan, of getting the right balance of nutrients but this is just a matter of education.

That said I used to work with a chap who was a vegetarian because he didn't like the idea of animals being killed for food. When I asked him if it was for health reasons he said he had an extremely unhealthy diet eating mainly cheese and onion pasties and chips!

[madasafish]

Programme on BBC1 just starting now, "Meat : A Threat To Our Planet?"

If humans were meant to be vegetarian we would have 3 stomachs like vegetarian animals.  The fact is that carnivores can eat once a week and lie around in the sun all day but vegetarian animals need to spend most of the day ( and some of the night ) eating - and are generally of lower intelligence than carnivores... just like green party members.

Thanks
I watched it..

Now I am in favour of protecting and improving our environment and have no doubt of the correctnes  of the message of teh program that current meat growing mthods are uunsustainable.

But I thought the way the program was presenetd -with Liz Bronin showing her views from teh very start - were DESIGNED to offend meat eaters..

And farmers..

And it concentrated on US farming which is irreleant to us UK citizens,.. (we cannot alter it in any way)..
No mention of UK farming at all.

And a piece of a Welsh droput growing chickens  in the country telling us this was teh way to go.. As if the 50million people living in cities  have the land to do that.

And as for getting in touch with how our food ids grown.. Butchers have been selling meat for centuries..Now supermarkkets..- No one is allowed to kill animals for slaughter - they have to go to an abattoir..

I thought it was so thoroughly biased - mind made up - as to be counterproductive..


(Sprry for typos .. broken  glasses)

It's like listening to fanatical vegans telling me that honey  should not be eaten as it'ss "exploiting the bees"  I am a beekeeper..With nothing against vegans ..live and let live...

[culzean]

Any method of food production is unsustainable with present levels of population - it is the elephant in the room ( one of the few elephants left due to humans taking their habitat away for farming ). I have said that the only way to save the planet is to get rid of humans, and nature will do that sooner rather than later...

[richardfrost]

Any method of food production is unsustainable with present levels of population - it is the elephant in the room ( one of the few elephants left due to humans taking their habitat away for farming ). I have said that the only way to save the planet is to get rid of humans, and nature will do that sooner rather than later...

I'm going to disagree with you and agree with you.

Elephants have plenty of habitat. They are just being hunted to death.

However, I agree that the planet will survive. Humanity might not though. We are going the way of the dinosaurs.

[JimSh]

And it concentrated on US farming which is irreleant to us UK citizens,.. (we cannot alter it in any way)..
No mention of UK farming at all.

I must admit that I didn't watch the programme, since I suspected from the previews that the presentation would be a bit one sided.
However factory type farming of the American kind is more prevalent in the UK than Countryfile would indicate and once we get rid of "these pesky EU regulations" is likely to become even more so.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jul/17/uk-has-nearly-800-livestock-mega-farms-investigation-reveals

https://www.ciwf.org.uk/factory-farming/

Last Edit Added inverted commas

[culzean]

Any method of food production is unsustainable with present levels of population - it is the elephant in the room ( one of the few elephants left due to humans taking their habitat away for farming ). I have said that the only way to save the planet is to get rid of humans, and nature will do that sooner rather than later...

I'm going to disagree with you and agree with you.

Elephants have plenty of habitat. They are just being hunted to death.

However, I agree that the planet will survive. Humanity might not though. We are going the way of the dinosaurs.

Elephant are coming into conflict with farmers and all their migration routes are being closed off,  sure they are hunted as well - but even if they weren't their way of life has been changed forever by fences and humans.

[Basil]

I watched the program and the presenter was a meat eater who was shocked to see the scale of meat production in the USA and the devastating effects in South America. They were just trying to show people what's happening to the planet,  it can no longer be ignored or blamed on population.

[madasafish]

The US population at 327M is about 5 times larger than the UK. So by definition they will produce a LOT more food..

She was being melodramatic..