Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Honda & Other Honda Models => Topic started by: Jocko on May 15, 2019, 04:24:06 PM
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I have just received an email from Honda telling me that the new all electric car is to be called the Honda e, and will be available next spring. They are inviting me to put down an £800 refundable reservation fee, which will get me priority delivery. If only I was in the market for a new Honda I would jump at the opportunity.
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There's no mention of purchase cost? >:( >:(
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The Sunday Times had an article on it a few months back, I quote:
"it will likely cost about the same as similar cars such as the Renault Zoe. We expect the base price will be around the £20,000 mark, after you factor in the government’s current £3,500 Plug-In Car Grant."
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Regional versions will be available...
Yorkshire - Honda e-by-gum
Lancashire - Honda e-cky-thump
Manchester - Honda e-zer-good
Glasgow - Honda e-you-Jimmy
I'm sure there will be more!
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Honda just emailed me which included a link to this video.
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Likely to be nearer £30k for UK market....
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Likely to be nearer £30k for UK market....
We'll soon know. Not long until it comes on the market.
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Electric cars need to come down in price a lot before they become attractive to most buyers. Not enough range for a first car and too expensive for a second car.
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I've had an email from Honda which claims "over 125 miles" range and fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes.
Also "Reservations are now open for priority ordering and preferential delivery in 2020."
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I've had an email from Honda which claims "over 125 miles" range and fast charge to 80% in 30 minutes.
Also "Reservations are now open for priority ordering and preferential delivery in 2020."
If anyone has ever wondered why the 80% figure is used by BEV car makers it is because getting above 80% charge takes a lot longer and can damage the battery. Bit like saying a car has a 50 litre fuel tank and you can get 40 litres in very quickly, but getting the last 10 litres in is going to take you 3 hours and damage the tank.
https://transportevolved.com/2014/11/06/electric-car-rapid-charging-need-know/
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For the majority of motorists 80% is probably all they need. 100 miles after a half hour charge. That'll do me.
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For the majority of motorists 80% is probably all they need. 100 miles after a half hour charge. That'll do me.
It’s a 100 mile round trip to the wife’s mother’s house. And the she always wants to be taken somewhere. Probably a fine city car but not much use for a commute or general driving.
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The 'e' will be a design icon I'm sure. But it's crucially not affordable for most. The warning bells started to jangle when the presenter said that Honda had brought him over. Bought would be the correct word !
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Bought would be the correct word !
I would strongly dispute that. Robert LLewellyn Is very much for electric vehicles but dead against manufacturers trying to "buy" his influence.
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Dead right Jocko - I think Robert Llewellyn is a pretty straight guy.
I like the look of the Honda E. It looks a cut above some of the other offerings but here's the thing - the price is going to be north of £25,000.
Is it the case that car manufacturers quite literally don't want to sell these cars in any great numbers because they have so much capital tied up in ICE's? I simply refuse to believe that a battery, a motor and a reduction gear is more costly to produce than an Internal Combustion Engine and gearbox. I can get a top of the range Jazz for £19,000 (ish) and a Corsa or a Fiesta for a lot less than that.
I find it difficult believe that they couldn't knock out an EV for, say, £15,000.
Interested to hear from anybody who knows any actual reason for the high prices of EV's other than to deter too many people from getting on board.
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I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.
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I think the markup in cost is to fund future development. The manufacturers know they have to get better batteries and more efficient systems so the early adopters have to pay that price. No motor manufacturer sees ICE as the future, no matter how much they wish it were the case. A new 1904 Ford Model B cost $2,000 ($56,000 at today's prices). All to fund development.
Yes - I can see that and I agree that development costs have to be factored in. That said, they will presumably want a phased elimination of ICE cars to protect existing investments. At north of £25,000 and more probably £30,000 this little car remains strictly one for the better off.
I'd have to remortgage the house!
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I'd have to mortgage my house for a new Jazz! I don't think my landlord would be very pleased though.
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We could always try money laudering :P
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Here we go, right off thread, but I have considered that. If I had a connection, that wanted money laundered, I would be up for it.
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Even though Lithium battery prices have dropped a long way in recent years (see https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/battery-reality-there-s-nothing-better-than-lithium-ion-coming-soon (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-03/battery-reality-there-s-nothing-better-than-lithium-ion-coming-soon)) at $200/kWh then the vehicle contains about $7k of batteries. Add on the costs of battery management (charging, thermal management ...) then the battery pack cost could come to $10k which would mean £10k once taxes are included. Add in allowances for R&D and risk (new technology might have big warranty claims if something isn't right) and the price isn't padded as much as it initially looks. There might also be design aspects such as the real battery capacity being more than mentioned both to allow for wear (loss of capacity) and keeping the charging and discharging away from the extremes of the possible charge range as that's where much of the wear takes place.
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Renault have just announced prices for the new 50 kWh Zoe, but more importantly they are dropping the entry level 22 kWh and are now supplying the 40 kWh for the price of the deleted 22 kWh Zoe. Battery packs can be leased or bought outright. It is still expensive compared with comparable ICE cars but the prices are coming down.
It will certainly put pressure on Honda and the price of the upcoming Honda e with its 36 kWh battery. Will they try and compete with Renault's price?
Nice report on the Honda e here: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/honda/e-electric-ev/ (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/honda/e-electric-ev/)
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I see the new Honda e is to start from £26,160.
You can now configure your own!
https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html?ck=17422115&utm_source=clickthrough&prop=Eproto&campaign=launch&utm_content=discover#configurator/hub (https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/new/honda-e/overview.html?ck=17422115&utm_source=clickthrough&prop=Eproto&campaign=launch&utm_content=discover#configurator/hub)
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I've picked my one.
(https://i.imgur.com/1ts67ng.jpg)
It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a £500 premium.
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I've picked my one.
(https://i.imgur.com/1ts67ng.jpg)
It is only available in Black, Gray, Blue, Yellow, and White. Yellow is the standard colour. The rest attract a £500 premium.
I must say that looks almost identical to my first Honda Civic in 1979!
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Almost identical apart from the smoothed edges.
(https://i.redd.it/h9u0anb40zk21.jpg)
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Not happy at all with the single pedal control.
After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?
As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.
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Not happy at all with the single pedal control.
After 65 years of driving, it is an automatic reaction to step on the brake in an emergency situation.
Can you imagine the result of doing that in a single pedal car? it's the the exact opposite to a conventional car and in my opinion extremely dangerous!
What happens if you slide your foot sideways off the pedal, do you get maximum braking, limited maybe by ABS?
As Jocko say's, it's a throwback to 1979 or thereabouts, too expensive, not impressed at all.
I don’t know about the Honda but the Nissan Leaf single pedal system still has a separate brake pedal for emergencies and stopping quickly. It can also be turned off and used like a conventional automatic
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Yes, it has a brake pedal.
(https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/honda-e-2121.jpg?itok=8so2gu2y)
One pedal is something you can switch on. It is just extreme regeneration. If you want to stop quick you just apply the brake as normal.
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It is certainly a powerful little car. It has more horsepower than the Jazz Sport 1.5, but more than twice the torque, which is what really counts for driving pleasure. With more weight in the Honda e, some of that advantage will be soaked up, but with an extremely low centre of gravity and rear wheel drive it should be a joy to throw round corners. Think BMW 118i.
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It is certainly a powerful little car. It has more horsepower than the Jazz Sport 1.5, but more than twice the torque, which is what really counts for driving pleasure. With more weight in the Honda e, some of that advantage will be soaked up, but with an extremely low centre of gravity and rear wheel drive it should be a joy to throw round corners. Think BMW 118i.
Presumably all whilst playing the sound of a throaty V8 out of the hifi !
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I prefer Southern Rock myself.
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Not happy at all with the single pedal control.
I noticed what looked like a switch for this next to the parking brake.
I agree about having automatic reactions. I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.
There's a lot a like about the Honda e except that it's too small for my needs both in terms of range and boot capacity. I hope that some of the features such as cameras instead of mirrors (less aerodynamic drag) carry over into the other new models. Have Honda had the gumption to realise that with front and rear view cameras on board they've got built-in dashcam capability and only need to provide a place for the user to add a memory card?
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I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.
I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
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I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.
I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
Changing over from older British motorbikes to Japanese bikes was even worse - the gearlever on older bikes is on RH side and on Jap bikes and newer bikes it is on the left ( and vice versa with rear brake lever ), so if you have both old and new bikes and ride both it can be interesting..... and the gearbox on track bikes is up into first and then down for higher gears, on road bikes it is the the opposite.
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I curse those vehicles which have swapped the wiper and lights stalks so indicating to turn right results in a wipe of the windows.
I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
Changing over from older British motorbikes to Japanese bikes was even worse - the gearlever on older bikes is on RH side and on Jap bikes and newer bikes it is on the left ( and vice versa with rear brake lever ), so if you have both old and new bikes and ride both it can be interesting..... and the gearbox on track bikes is up into first and then down for higher gears, on road bikes it is the the opposite.
I used to have an old vellocette which was the same not only was the gear lever on the RH side it was also upside down it was fun switching between that and my Honda 250RS
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I agree 1000%. It amazes me that everything on cars is so highly regulated and standardised except something as simple as which side the wiper and light stalks are positioned. Unbelievable.
On older cars I have had wipers and indicators switching sides. If my wipers are on in the dry I am turning left!
My FIAT 126 light switch went Side/Dip/Main beam. The first night, on a winding country road, I switched from Dip to Side instead of Main. At 50 mph. Heart stops for a second! Next day I switched the Main and Dip wiring over.
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I've been through the brochure again and nowhere can I find any reference to a brake pedal.
The description quite clearly says, Single Pedal Operation, push the pedal to go, take your foot off to brake.
It's certainly not, single pedal operation, if there are two pedals.
As I said before, it's extremely dangerous, and I won't be buying one, unless of course I've missed something?
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(https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/honda-e-2122.jpg?itok=7RmQgmPR)
Forgive me if I am wrong, but the picture (albeit LHD), shows a small accelerator pedal, a larger brake, and a foot rest for the left foot. As does the previous photo I linked to.
In One Pedal operation the car can be driven using just the accelerator pedal, though it is neither mandatory or necessary. The new Nissan Leaf is the same, if I am not mistaken.
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A brilliant section here on the Nissan Leaf E-pedal mode (their name for one pedal operation). See under "Don't touch the brakes".
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2018-nissan-leaf-update-e-pedal/ (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2018-nissan-leaf-update-e-pedal/)
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Well Jocko, I have to accept that your photo does indeed show two pedals.
That being the case, how can the car, possibly be described as One Pedal Operation?
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On those brilliant (I think) camera wing mirrors, in the video it says they weren't developed for the e, so there's a good chance they'll appear on other models.
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That being the case, how can the car, possibly be described as One Pedal Operation?
Well it can be operated by one pedal, if you switch that option on. You just disregard the brake pedal. The spec doesn't say it is "solely One Pedal".
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I reckon there is a switch - see the interior photos in the configurator.
(https://configurator-images.honda.eu/content/dam/configuratorHub/honda-e-2020/keyfeatures/Honda-e-keyfeatures-singlepedalcontrol.jpg/jcr:content/renditions/extrasmall.jpg)
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Certainly looks like it. I know most EV's have switchable levels of Regeneration, so I hope the Honda e does too. And a hardware switch. Not something that requires accessing the software via a screen. I would want to be able to easily switch between different levels on the fly. At the moment I can select Neutral, which would be the equivalent of no regen, for long gentle descents. And various levels of regen for steeper slopes. One Pedal operation would be great for busy town driving. I would love one, but doubt I may be spared long enough to get one.
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What happens when you are in one pedal mode and you need to make an emergency stop.
The use of a brake pedal then, cannot be described as one pedal operation?
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I know most EV's have switchable levels of Regeneration, so I hope the Honda e does too. And a hardware switch.
I see it is done by a paddle. That is a good thing.
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What happens when you are in one pedal mode and you need to make an emergency stop.
The use of a brake pedal then, cannot be described as one pedal operation?
Yes it is. The brake pedal.
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This is the closest look video I have seen so far
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Very interesting video and a quite impressive specification.
Pity there was no mention of the Single Pedal Operation?
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This one is quite good too.
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The German guy talks about the electric motor being under the "hood", but it is not. It is in the rear, as the "Fully Charged" video, and this older video makes clear.
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The German guy talks about the electric motor being under the "hood", but it is not. It is in the rear, as the "Fully Charged" video, and this older video makes clear.
Yeah I thought that it also explains why the boot is so small, too small for my liking.
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The car will be perfect for my needs, but I realise it will not suit everyone. For 99.9% of my motoring, a two seater is all I require. As for boot space, if it holds my shopping then it is big enough for me. The boot of my Jazz is full of empty supermarket trolley bags, and most of the time I just lay the shopping on the back seat, on my way home from the store! I would have an MX5 if I could get in and out of it!!!
Robert Llewellyn certainly likes the One Pedal option. And the performance. What I cannot understand, is why the entire roof is glass when you can only see out of one small section? Perhaps it is simpler, and allows a smooth, aerodynamic roof.
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Looks like it will be a car for the few rather than the many. A bit too nerdy for me and even my shopping would struggle with the tiny boot. Most of the UK pre-orders are for London. And at £28660 you would need London Allowance to pay for it.
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Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
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Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)
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That's culzean!
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Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)
That's culzean!
no chance of getting golf clubs in the boot then ?
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Honda e review from Autocar:
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Totally unsuitable... incapable of taking a beehive in the boot...
Don't you keeps your Bees in your bonnet? ;)
Of course: I am a Scot...
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A better package is coming later this year from Vw up Skoda City Seat Mii ......
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The new Corsa-e looks the dogs. Starts at £26490. Expected from April.
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Volkswagen's e-Up will sell massively in Yorkshire.
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Good Honda e video.
This will be my first EV.