Author Topic: Safety feature, I don’t think so!  (Read 4223 times)

orcadian

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: scotland
  • My Honda: 2015 Jazz SE
Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« on: August 09, 2019, 07:58:21 PM »
Still enjoying our Jazz and have put about 4000 miles on so far.  One rather annoying aspect is this collision avoidance system. We live in Orkney and there are very good roads, some quite straight for a good distance with single carriageway national speed limit.  If the straight part happens to have a left hander at the end, then traffic coming towards you is at one point directly in front of you, albeit on the other side of the road.  This system sees that as a threat and a very brief message flashes up accompanied by a warning beep.  It forces you to take your eyes off the road momentarily to see what’s gone wrong!  I defy anyone to ignore it - it’s a bit like telling people they shouldn’t brake for animals.

Ian

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 08:07:35 PM »
Can you not reduce the sensitivity?

orcadian

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: scotland
  • My Honda: 2015 Jazz SE
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 08:11:17 PM »
Might be possible but couldn’t find it in the 500 plus pages of the handbook!

Thanks,
Ian

mikebore

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 605
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2016 1.3 Mk 3 SE CVT
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 08:43:11 PM »
Might be possible but couldn’t find it in the 500 plus pages of the handbook!

Thanks,
Ian

Page 132. There are some screenshots of the settings on page 2 in this thread on a different subject:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=11362.15

I noticed what you describe in the first week of ownership but has only happened a very few times in 45000 miles.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 08:45:34 PM by mikebore »

Ralph

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 127
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Previously owned a 2018 Jazz EX CVT
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 08:58:27 PM »
I don’t see it as a problem if mine goes off ( which isn’t that often, can count on one hand how many times in 12000 miles) when it does beep I can usually see why so I don’t have to take my eyes off the road. I’ve never adjusted the sensitivity so I assume it’s set on medium.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 09:44:15 PM »
My brother has a Suzuki Grand Vitara AWD with brake assist radar ( amongst other things ) - it has been an embarrassment sometimes on narrow roads by applying the brakes because it is picking up on hedges etc, especially when going past other vehicles and on tight bends.   Now the first thing he does when he gets in the car is disables every auto function that can be disabled.  Every time the ignition goes off and on again of course they reset to 'on' - but it is like a pre-flight checklist to turn them off again....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

ColinB

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1168
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2015 Jazz 1.3 SE manual in Milano Red
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2019, 09:00:24 AM »
If the straight part happens to have a left hander at the end, then traffic coming towards you is at one point directly in front of you, albeit on the other side of the road.  This system sees that as a threat ...
I've found three distinct circumstances where this system sounds off unhelpfully:
1. A left-hander with oncoming traffic (as you describe)
2. A right-hander with a vehicle parked on the left (eg in a lay-by, there's a location near me where the road geometry is just right)
3. When moving up to an overtake position (the car just sees the distance closing without noticing you're actually moving out at the same time)
My concern is not that it sounds off, although it's more worrying to any passengers than to the driver (who can see why it's sounding), but that if it does it too often you just ignore it ... which could get embarassing eventually !

My brother has a Suzuki Grand Vitara AWD with brake assist radar ( amongst other things ) - it has been an embarrassment sometimes on narrow roads by applying the brakes because it is picking up on hedges etc, especially when going past other vehicles and on tight bends.
The Jazz also has City-Brake Assist which will stop the car automatically if necessary, but only from low speed. The OP is commenting on the separate Forward Collision Warning system, which does not apply the brakes. I have never had the City-Brake Assist activating in the circumstances you describe, although the lane departure warning or the parking sensors can sound off in tight spaces (depending on speed).

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2019, 10:37:17 AM »
If the straight part happens to have a left hander at the end, then traffic coming towards you is at one point directly in front of you, albeit on the other side of the road.  This system sees that as a threat ...
I've found three distinct circumstances where this system sounds off unhelpfully:
1. A left-hander with oncoming traffic (as you describe)
2. A right-hander with a vehicle parked on the left (eg in a lay-by, there's a location near me where the road geometry is just right)
3. When moving up to an overtake position (the car just sees the distance closing without noticing you're actually moving out at the same time)
My concern is not that it sounds off, although it's more worrying to any passengers than to the driver (who can see why it's sounding), but that if it does it too often you just ignore it ... which could get embarassing eventually !

My brother has a Suzuki Grand Vitara AWD with brake assist radar ( amongst other things ) - it has been an embarrassment sometimes on narrow roads by applying the brakes because it is picking up on hedges etc, especially when going past other vehicles and on tight bends.
The Jazz also has City-Brake Assist which will stop the car automatically if necessary, but only from low speed. The OP is commenting on the separate Forward Collision Warning system, which does not apply the brakes. I have never had the City-Brake Assist activating in the circumstances you describe, although the lane departure warning or the parking sensors can sound off in tight spaces (depending on speed).


This is the Suzuki system,  it can initiate braking at much higher speeds and longer distances....

Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

ColinS

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 901
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2018 HR-V EX-Navi CVT
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2019, 11:23:04 AM »
3. When moving up to an overtake position (the car just sees the distance closing without noticing you're actually moving out at the same time)
This is the Suzuki system,  it can initiate braking at much higher speeds and longer distances....
Mercedes also have this. The effect ColinB talks about is compounded by it applying brakes.

Back to the original post though, I personally can't see how to adopt this any better without making it overly complicated and consequently more prone to false positives.  Some Autonomous Vehicle designer out there must  be confident!

BTW I also brake for animals :o

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2019, 12:04:23 PM »
Some Autonomous Vehicle designer out there must  be confident!

Aha, have you noticed after all the hi-fives and hype of a few years ago it has all gone quiet on the AV front ?  They are realising the hard way how difficult it is to replace human senses ( if humans can only be persuaded to pay attention ). The foibles and failings of the 'assist' functions fitted to modern vehicles ( which humans can ignore or override ) does not bode well for AV..

Some websites I visit after you click the 'I am not a robot' button you are virtually bombarded with those captur picture puzzles that ask you to click all pictures with cars, buses, traffic lights, fire hydrants etc. etc. ( on some sites it is up to 8 layers of them)  on one article I read some computer expert said that it was training the Artificial intelligence of computers to be able to recognise object from different angles and against different backgrounds,  which humans do without thinking but is really, really, really hard for computers to do.. Oh well humans are not quite redundant yet..

If it was easy for computers / AI to sense the objects they would be useless on websites for separating humans from robots anyway.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 12:07:38 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE RIP
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2019, 02:01:20 PM »
If it was easy for computers / AI to sense the objects they would be useless on websites for separating humans from robots anyway.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2019, 02:18:52 PM »
That is amusing but I once programmed a robot to draw pictures of Micky Mouse. pretty easy to get it to tap a touch pad. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1408
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Black 2005 1.4 SE RIP
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2019, 02:39:38 PM »
That is amusing but I once programmed a robot to draw pictures of Micky Mouse. pretty easy to get it to tap a touch pad.
It's not just tapping the touch pad. It is moving the pointer until it is over the 'I am a not a robot' check box, then clicking on there. So it is having to interact with where the pointer is. Still fairly basic. The point is really to show how futile these tests are.

ColinS

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 901
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2018 HR-V EX-Navi CVT
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2019, 03:01:04 PM »
That is amusing but I once programmed a robot to draw pictures of Micky Mouse. pretty easy to get it to tap a touch pad.
An expert at everything :). Are there no end to your skills?

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Safety feature, I don’t think so!
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2019, 05:47:57 PM »
That is amusing but I once programmed a robot to draw pictures of Micky Mouse. pretty easy to get it to tap a touch pad.
An expert at everything :). Are there no end to your skills?

Not an expert by any means ( ex=has been, spurt = a drip under pressure ).  Used to program robots for a living.

Easy peasy for someone to move the pointer to a known position and the robots preprogrammed path can take it to the fixed position of the dialogue box on the screen.  The reality is that even even with all their sensors computers cannot see, make sense of and react to the world the way humans do. Narrow AI can do some amazing things under controlled conditions, but humans have wide intelligence and can do most things really well, an AI expert said that  five year old has more advanced spatial and motor skills than the most advanced computer systems at the moment.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

anything
Back to top