Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: andruec on November 09, 2016, 04:16:59 PM
-
Some of you may remember my previous posts on issues I had starting my Jazz. It seemed like I'd resolved the issue by giving the engine a couple of seconds settle down after an idle stop restart before switching it off for good. Unfortunately it's started playing up again despite my workaround. It often starts slowly after ignition before settling down at normal idle. It failed to start first time earlier this week.
Given the cold snap recently it suggests a problem of some kind to me. The only thing that still seems odd is that it failed to start first time in my garage in the morning when it was 11 degrees and presumably quite dry but seemed to have no problems in the evening after sitting in the company car park for 9 hours with temperatures around 7 degrees and damp in the air.
It's beginning to look like a trip to the dealer is needed :(
-
Sounds like a failed temperature sensor..
or a dirty MAF sensor..
-
I'll call the service department tomorrow. Annoying if it's a fault that's been there since I bought it but I suppose it's kept going for nine months so far give or take having to press the start button twice a few times.
-
Booked in for next Friday. Most of the time it is still starting first press but I've noticed that in the last week or so it's run at low revs for a second before picking back up to proper idle. It actually did it yesterday evening which has finally prompted me to get it looked at. I don't mind it preventing me getting to work but not getting me home is right out :)
-
Here's another oddity concerning idle stop.
Recently I switched off my climate control and just run with normal heater on. Discovered after a few miles that the idle stop wasn't working, the instrument dial to the right of steering wheel displaying AC with diagonal line through it, not the normal A with arrow round it.
Everything else worked fine in auto mode, headlights, wipers, lane deviation etc.
So turned on auto climate control and hey presto idle stop works again. What's going on is idle stop linked to air conditioning/ climate control.
Any of you guys got any ideas, I'm totally baffled?
-
Here's another oddity concerning idle stop.
I would tentatively guess it was down to fan speed. Perhaps the system decides that since it can't control fan speed any longer it'd better not use idle stop. Either that or was your fan running slower when control was handed back to the climate controller.
Anyway as regards the actual topic of the thread I suspect it's a problem with my fuel rail, fuel pump or the non-return valve. That seems to fit all my symptoms and explains why all else seems to run well. Apparently the system is supposed to keep a small amount of fuel under pressure in the rails at all times to ensure a good start. Various faults can cause it to leak back to the fuel tank (or worse case on the floor but I don't think that's an issue). It also explains why the fault mostly manifests in the morning despite being in a garage. That's when the most time has passed allowing more pressure to be lost. Maybe 9 hours in a car park is not normally enough time for the loss to be significant.
One test that I think I can do is to first switch on without the foot brake pressed. Then wait a second and complete startup. The first button press should run the fuel pump which will re-pressurise the rail. The second button press should be a normal start.
-
My first test of the new 'strategy' and I may be on to something (again :-/ ). I pressed the start button twice without the brake pedal to switch ignition on. Waited a few seconds then pressed it again with the brake pedal pushed in. The engine started immediately and at the correct revs. It even sounded a little 'perky'.
-
My wife does that, turns the ignition on and waits a bit then starts the engine. I think it is a throw back from when we were told to turn the ignition on for a few seconds so the ECU could learn the temperature etc and do its calculations to decide how much fuel to use etc. Before switching the engine on completely.
-
My wife does that, turns the ignition on and waits a bit then starts the engine. I think it is a throw back from when we were told to turn the ignition on for a few seconds so the ECU could learn the temperature etc and do its calculations to decide how much fuel to use etc. Before switching the engine on completely.
Sometimes a few seconds delay helps to let fuel pump build up pressure.
-
Well that's flummoxed me.
I thought it was temperature related and was worst in the morning. This morning she started and idled at 1,500 RPM immediately. Ah ha! I thought - warmer temperatures and she's happy again. QED. Fast forward to this evening at work and it's still relatively warm if a little wet. I press the button and she fires but stumbles along for a second or two at about 400 rpm before finally ramping up to 1,500 RPM.
So it isn't purely the temperature. It's obviously a little more complicated than that.
I've been looking online for explanations out of curiousity (I'm no mechanic) but nothing quite seems to match. I've stopped trying to let the ignition run for a few seconds before firing because after that one time it didn't seem to make much difference. Failing MAF sensor almost makes sense except that aside from hard starting she runs just fine.
I just hope the dealer can figure it out :-/
-
Well don't that beat all? (as the Yanks say).
As I expected the dealer wasn't able to replicate the problem. In fact despite it being a cold morning she started perfectly for me as well ::). Nor are there any error codes. Everything looks good.
So I chatted with the technician over the phone for ten minutes sympathising with him (as a computer programmer I've had my share of this kind of thing). Then I left the house got into the Jazz they'd lent me, pressed the start button and..
..splutter, splutter, mumble, mumble, mumble, vroom.
It damn' near stalled on me. Exactly what my Jazz sometimes does. So anyway the techies at the dealership are going to check that car out because they are hopeful that a record of the last start will be on the system. Then at least they can send it to Honda for comment.
So the only common factors so far seem to be:
* When it's not Summer.
* When it's me starting the car (my magnetic personality perhaps?).
* Mostly (but not always) in the morning.
W-T-F ?
Anyway I keep forgetting to record a video of it (or else it plays nice when I do) so I'll leave you with this example (different car altogether) because these are my symptoms:
http://www.s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-drivetrain/19723-cold-start-low-rpm-then-normal.html (http://www.s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-drivetrain/19723-cold-start-low-rpm-then-normal.html)
This also rules out anything to do with the CVT since the courtesy car was a manual. Gawd it felt archaic. Pushing a pedal and moving a stupid stick around at every junction. There should be a law against it :)
-
Yesterday was frosty. Car claimed 10 degrees in garage when I started it. Started first time at slightly low RPM but soon picked up.
Today was very frosty. Car claimed 10 degrees in garage when I started it. Stuttered and stalled out on first attempt. Second attempt it fired right up at correct rpm.
So it seems like there's no ryhme or reason :-/
-
Do you keep your feet well clear of the accelerator pedal when both stopping and starting the engine? There are people who feel the need to switch off from high revs and also rev the engine before the oil gets around the engine.
-
Yup, no feet anywhere other than pressing the brake pedal when starting. And I've never felt the need to rev the engine.
All in all it's odd. Originally I thought it was a fault with my car but the fact the courtesy car did it implies a more general issue. Except that here we are in a cold snap and no-one else is reporting it. This morning it started first time albeit with slightly low revs for the first second or so. This evening it fired right up with no issue.
So overnight in an insulated but unheated garage (give or take a gas boiler) at ten degrees it's a bit unhappy and maybe stalls.
All day in an office car park with temperatures struggling above five degrees it's happy.
And..why is it so infrequent? I was thinking about it this morning and I think it's only failed to start half a dozen times, a dozen at the most in the nine months I've owned it. It seems bothered by poor weather and faultless during the halcyon days of summer.
-
Did the courtesy car have a night in the garage? If so, perhaps try leaving the car outside the garage and see if it is happier.
If the garage is poorly ventilated (and most are to keep them a little warmer) then perhaps there's a bit of damp upsetting something.
-
My car sometimes (rarely) throws a tantrum when starting, I have always put it down to the stop start system being confused. It will seem to be reluctant to fire up and then run rough for a couple of seconds. It has happened in my garage and in a car park, my wife mentioned that the car was reluctant to start a few days ago. My thoughts so far are that the engine had auto stopped and then been switched off. It has not happened often enough for me to consider it a problem. (yet).
-
Did the courtesy car have a night in the garage? If so, perhaps try leaving the car outside the garage and see if it is happier.
Good idea, but no. It just sat on my drive all day. It was a chilly day but it started just fine at the dealers in the morning (once I realised I had to hold the clutch down).
-
Unless there is a temperature sensor fault I doubt if ambient temperature in the UK makes much difference. Hondas are sold from the arctic to the tropics and lead an easy life in our temperate climate. I have seen them in the north of Norway on studded tyres way below freezing (-15C) and in the south of India in 40C, they all seemed to work OK.
-
Edit:Just saw your post of the 30th, Deeps. That sounds familiar and that's what I thought all through summer. Just the idle stop confusing things. At least it's one other owner seeing something awry so perhaps we can rule out my magnetic personality now :)
-
Maybe we are sensitive souls who are in tune with our cars. That does not explain Mrs Deeps noticing a glitch, her mechanical knowledge does not extend beyond turning the key. :-)
-
Having slept on the engine start anomaly, the engine needs fuel, a spark, and compression occurring at the right time to start and run. I wonder if the engine stops in a particular position It takes a second or so to get things lined up. The variable is the camshaft position, it is electronically controlled and hydraulically (oil pressure) operated. My thoughts are that the overall engine system can take a second or so to get set up after certain stop conditions.
This may be complete rubbish, if it is possible I have no idea what causes it.
-
This may be complete rubbish, if it is possible I have no idea what causes it.
I think that's possible but it does seem to me to have a weather component about it. Mine stopped having the problem a month or two after I bought it. At the time I said I thought it was because I'd learnt to give the idle stop time to settle after restarting when I parked in my garage. As a theory it fitted very well. It even explained why I never had the problem in the evening at work - I reverse into my space and idle stop never activates there.
But now it seems that the reason it stopped could just have been that I bought it in early March and a couple of months later it's summer. Certainly it seemed to kick off again in October.
My current theory is something MAF (Mass Air Flow) related. I'm no mechanic but reading up on it it would explain a lot. It might also explain the occasional 'numb accelerator pedal' I get. That too seems to have crept back. It's not as bad as when I first got the car but I have recently had a couple of occasions when trying to accelerate out of a roundabout it's felt like the accelerator pedal is ignoring me. When I've pressed the issue (ha ha) the car has surged forward.
http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/how-to-tell-if-you-have-a-faulty-mass-airflow-sensor (http://www.carsdirect.com/car-repair/how-to-tell-if-you-have-a-faulty-mass-airflow-sensor)
The only thing that doesn't seem to match is fuel consumption. I'm driving 12 miles each way during the week including a somewhat tortuous evening rush hour experience and despite it being winter I'm still managing (measured pump to pump) 51 mpg.
Then again it's clearly intermittent so maybe it just doesn't happen often enough to impact fuel consumption. I don't think 51mpg is bad for what my car is doing. On long journeys (like last weekend) it self-reported nearly 60mpg for a steady 60mph run.
-
The camshaft position is not altered by the VTEC system, its relationship to crankshaft position remains fixed, What happens with VTEC is that the camshaft has extra cam lobes with different profiles and there are also extra rocker arms which follow these cams but are normally not connected to main rocker arm, so they just freewheel and do not affect valve operation positions. The extra arm(s) can be linked or un-linked to main arm (the main arm is only one long enough to touch both the cam and the top of valve, the extra arms are only long enough to touch the cams) by hydraulic pins which have springs to return them to retracted (unlocked) position when engine oil pressure not pushing them forward, this oil pressure to pins is controlled by ECU via an on-off solenoid valve, but in the absence of oil pressure (engine stopped) the pins will be returned to unlock position by their springs, always leaving the valve timing in its basic position for starting and low rev operation.
-
The camshaft position is not altered by the VTEC system,
I agree, but the intake camshaft position (timing) is altered by the VTC (Variable Timing Control) actuator. It is under the lump in the cam chain cover just behind the dipstick.
http://www.honda.co.nz/technology/engine/VTC/ (http://www.honda.co.nz/technology/engine/VTC/)
-
http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/ivtec/index.html (http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/ivtec/index.html)
Yes you are right, Honda have refined original VTEC principle by adding VTC and introducing a helical linkage between camshaft and its driving sprocket to enable the intake cam shaft to be moved relative to its driving sprocket. This seems to be to make VTEC system operation smoother and get rid of the noticeable 'switch-over points' that used to be a feature of VTEC alone.
-
I think you will find that Honda do not use the system you have linked to. That VTC sprocket is a belt drive spiral system. If you search for Honda VTC in Google images it is the type with four internal lobes which act as vanes to move the camshaft using oil pressure from the control valve.
-
As my car has only had a brief cough on start up on three well spaced occasions I am not concerned at the moment. As I am from the age of manual and then dodgy auto chokes the odd splutter at start up is no problem.
-
As my car has only had a brief cough on start up on three well spaced occasions I am not concerned at the moment. As I am from the age of manual and then dodgy auto chokes the odd splutter at start up is no problem.
Funnily enough I'm less concerned now that I know it's not restricted to my vehicle. Possibly mine is a particularly bad example but it seems to me that it's just a characteristic of the model. That gives me confidence that it'll always start on the second attempt and maybe one day Honda will fix it.
I've just added it to my list-of-things-wot-Honda-got-wrong.
It's quite a list which will be useful in two or three years when I consider my next car purchase.
-
Mine has never refused to start first time.
-
I think you will find that Honda do not use the system you have linked to. That VTC sprocket is a belt drive spiral system. If you search for Honda VTC in Google images it is the type with four internal lobes which act as vanes to move the camshaft using oil pressure from the control valve.
Thanks for the up to date info
-
I've gone back to trying the 'triple button press'. Two presses without the brake pedal pressed down to switch on the ignition. Then wait for several seconds. Then start.
It still doesn't start immediately at 1,500 rpm but it's no longer so obviously starting slow and it's fractions of a second before it picks up to 1,500 rpm. Last night was slightly more interesting. Totally new behaviour.
I was expecting it to be a useful test because it was a warm, wet evening and similar conditions to the one and only time it's ever not started first time from the office car park. What it actually did was spend a couple of seconds spinning the starter motor before roaring into life at 1,500 rpm. It never normally runs the starter for more than half a second.
So I don't know what to make of that. Sadly without a time machine there's no way of knowing what it would have done if I'd started it as Honda intend. It's suggesting however that the problem isn't directly temperature related. I'd say it was related to absolute humidity (relative humidity conflicts with it being happier during summer).
-
My car has done another extended starter run before starting, once it fired it ran perfectly. I suspect operator error (me). Did I press the clutch pedal fully? ........Pass!
-
I have been 'religiously' leaving the ignition on before starting for a while now. It does seem to be a 'fix' for the problem. I have to leave it on for quite a while though, well after the engine light goes off and the fuel pump stops running.
But if I leave it on the ignition for a dozen seconds it always fires up at the correct revs regardless of what the weather is doing.
I suppose all I can do is mention this at the next service. I might try a different dealership though. The one at Northampton isn't far from a golf course so that's something to do while I wait :)
-
I have been 'religiously' leaving the ignition on before starting for a while now. It does seem to be a 'fix' for the problem. I have to leave it on for quite a while though, well after the engine light goes off and the fuel pump stops running.
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.
-
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.
Could there be a non-return valve which is leaking slightly and letting fuel drain back to the fuel tank, so the pump has to repressurise the system?
It might be prudent to explain the problem to the dealer in advance of the service in case they have to order some parts.
-
Perhaps allowing the fuel pump do whatever it does is the secret, suggesting some initial fuel supply problem.
Could there be a non-return valve which is leaking slightly and letting fuel drain back to the fuel tank, so the pump has to repressurise the system?
It might be prudent to explain the problem to the dealer in advance of the service in case they have to order some parts.
I always leave a few seconds after turning ignition key before I start anyway, but I would think that fuel pump only stops once system is pressurised - and it can't add any extra pressure if it is not running. You can get weak pumps that are failing that need to run for a longer time, but then again once they stop you would think system is fully up to pressure.
-
I don't know how the jazz fuel system works but would expect the fuel pump to run continuously with a pressure relief valve on the fuel rail returning excess fuel to the tank. This ensures the fuel system can instantly supply adequate fuel for acceleration.
-
My point is that sensibly there should be a non-return valve on the suction pipe to stop fuel running back through the pump when the pump isn't running. If this NRV does it's job properly there is fuel available for a quick start if the key is turned quickly. Slight leakage would mean that pressure would reduce over a period of hours (eg overnight) resulting in the need to wait a few seconds for the fuel pump to repressurise the system. There might also be another valve to relieve excess pressure which could also be the culprit.
I'm only guessing but if the problem is that the engine is hesitant to start after standing a few hours and this can be fixed by letting the ignition key wait a few seconds in position II before starting the engine then this evidence should be sufficient to enable the dealer to figure out what needs to be fixed. If the leak is slow it's not something they can test during the service.
-
My car has just been difficult to start. Three long starter runs before it fired up, and then reluctantly. My car has not been used today other than two shunts on my drive, the weather is 7C, damp and a little misty. Once started it ran perfectly.
-
My car has just been difficult to start. Three long starter runs before it fired up, and then reluctantly
Ouch! That's worse than anything I've experienced. Are you trying to become the forum champion?
:o :D
-
We had a similar experience on Wednesday. Did not want to start in the garage. Took a few goes to start. Felt like the battery was a bit flat or the petrol was not getting to the engine. Car had only been used that morning. Once started it ran fine and is fine today. Strange.
-
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.
-
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.
That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.
-
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.
That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.
very unlikely to happen with fuel injection
-
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.
That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.
very unlikely to happen with fuel injection
Micra had fuel injection.
-
I wondered if by moving my car a couple of times on my drive today (effectively on full choke) it created a pool of petrol in the inlet manifold and "flooded" the engine.
That thought crossed my mind too. It used to happen with a Nissan Micra we had, and was a well known problem for that car, but hasn't happened to us with a Jazz so far. But I don't think I have ever moved the car twice.
very unlikely to happen with fuel injection
Err I beg to differ.
Had that problem with FI on a Rover 800 and Mercedes.
When cold, fuel injection is set to give a rich mixture.
OK if started once and left. But in cold weather and two starts within an hour or so, can "flood" the engine.
Solution: foot down on accelerator when starting...
-
Some fuel injection used to have just one injector serving all four cylinders, then others had an injector for each cylinder close to the cylinder, then again some cars had one for each cylinder and another extra one higher up the manifold which only operated on a cold engine to generally richen the mixture on start-up. Some early systems used to inject fuel all the time (like a carburettor does). I find it hard to believe that modern engine injection would squirt an excess of fuel, especially enough to wet the spark plug considering the number of sensors in the system - and the danger of getting fuel into the CAT and the danger of an explosion.
One of the most common cause of flooding on carburettor engines was the good old accelerator pump which squirted half a cup of fuel in every time the accelerator was pushed down, this was supposed to help engine pick up quicker, but it also helped it flood quicker as well.
-
This is my first petrol powered car for decades, my last one had a carburetor and distributor. My recollection may be hazy but it acted like a flooded engine after a few cold starts and shutdowns seconds later as I moved the car several times. Yesterday was an exception, several separate deliveries into my garage, washing a filthy salt encrusted car, etc. Not the normal treatment of my car. The last time my car started poorly (in my garage) it had been moved from the drive, another cold short run of about 30 seconds, not normal treatment!
-
Sounds like it might a different issue then.
The symptoms aren't quite the same either. Mine rarely requires a long turn over. It'll usually fire within half a second - it's just that it then idles at very low rpm for a second or so. Sometimes so low that it stalls out. Occasionally it has fired but then stalled within half a second of me pressing the button.
I have a couple of times had it turn and turn and turn for a couple of seconds before firing that's unusual.
-
While I accept my occasional poor starting is self inflicted, I like to know why it happens. My thoughts are as the Atkinson cycle returns air fuel mixture to the inlet manifold for part of the intake stroke you could have a super rich mixture which would condense on the cold manifold inner surface. This would give the engine flooded effect during repeated very short cold engine runs.
-
Or is it self inflicted? Parked for a couple of hours in a cinema car park, reversed in so no auto engine stop. On starting the engine cranked but did not fire up, on releasing the key to the on position the engine continued to run on the starter motor until it fired after a few seconds. It was not cold or wet, just cool and damp.
-
I've gone back to just 'push and go' - no more 'push, wait for ignition, push to start' as that's just too annoying. So far it's always fired first time but is still starting at around 1,000 rpm before climbing to 1,500 rpm after half a second. I reckon as spring gets underway in a month or so it'll stop doing that. I think it will go back to an immediate idle at 1,500 rpm which I assume is what it's always supposed to do.
I mentioned it when the car went in for a service but they had nothing further to add.
But on the plus side RC4+latest App update is still working just fine for me so I'm officially declaring that problem 'fixed'.
-
I have had the symptoms you describe occur three or four times. It seemed to occur when doing short journey's (less than five miles) at night in bad weather (cold, frost rain etc.). The car starts as if it is running on two cylinders at low revs then runs as normal a moment or so later. I rang the service department of the dealer who had not come across this before and suggested I leave the car with them for a day or two to investigate. I decided not to take it to them and monitor the situation as it only happens on a random basis.
I have also noticed on one or two occasions when pushing the start button it took time with the ignition lights on before it turn over and started.
I use the car with the lights and wipers on auto.
Hope this helps.
p.s. this is my first posting on joining today.
-
I have just had the starting issue described in the first paragraph of my last post above. It occurred after a 7 (5+2) mile journey and then left for 2 hours. I must have tempted fate as I said in a post a few days ago I had not had any starting problems this winter.
I will mention this to the honda service department when it goes in on Thursday to have the folding mirror switch replaced.
Fred
-
Reading this post with interest. I have had my new Jazz since July 2017. Been on a training course in Manchester so not used my car much as got the tram. I don't do a lot of miles anyway. Last time it was driven was Thursday, then Friday evening next door told me my son had left the back window open. Pressed the brake pedal and the start button, put window up and then pressed button for off again. Tuesday evening the car refused to start, same again this morning. Several attempts the battery sound ok just no "spark" and "ignite" feeling going on. I also have experienced the accelerator feeling unresponsive at times? Not sure what to do now, going to ring the dealer I bought it off which is a good hour away, I was not happy with the local dealer because of them ordering the wrong colour and wanting to charge me a lot more than the price I eventually got off car-wow. (I know sales and service are different). Maybe I should just ring Honda Assist and get them out to it or try this method mentioned in this post of pressing the button without pressing the brake pedal? My car has been parked outside the whole time, don't have a garage. I'm very disappointed, been driving the new Jazz since 2003 and had lots of them, hope I havn't got a lemon!
-
... Pressed the brake pedal and the start button, put window up and then pressed button for off again. Tuesday evening the car refused to start, same again this morning. Several attempts the battery sound ok just no "spark" and "ignite" feeling going on...
If you started the engine briefly to close the window, then immediately switched it off, you may have flooded it. Have a look at this post and subsequent comments for an explanation and how to overcome it:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8930.msg48854#msg48854
I don't think this is a jazz-specific issue, I've had it with a previous car and the link in that thread talks about other brands.
-
My partner decided to ring the dealer in Wakefield, who said just ring Honda Assist, so expect them to get here in an hour's time. Does feel like a waste of their time if it's just a flooded engine, will have to wait and see now.
-
Do bear in mind that to close a window or fold the mirrors etc you don’t need to start the engine. Just press the start button twice without pressing the brake pedal which will switch on ignition without starting the engine. Press the button once more (without pressing brake pedal) to switch off the ignition.
-
Yes thanks should not have turned the engine completely on, wish I had not done that, but at least I've got my car manual out of the cupboard now, I did promise myself I was going to read it as soon as I got the car but that didn't happen. Making me want to turn off the auto idle stop all this, if I figure out how to do it.
-
:-[Yes it was a flooded engine, I will know next time :-[
-
:-[Yes it was a flooded engine, I will know next time :-[
Glad it was easily sorted. I think it's probably something we all do ... once !
-
Last time it was driven was Thursday, then Friday evening next door told me my son had left the back window open. Pressed the brake pedal and the start button, put window up and then pressed button for off again.
This is one aspect where the extra cost of the HR-V comes with a useful benefit: Pressing the lock button on the remote will both close any open windows and park the mirrors (and holding down the open button will open all the windows - useful on a very hot day).