Author Topic: Dutch reach  (Read 1840 times)

Jazzik

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Dutch reach
« on: January 26, 2022, 10:17:12 AM »
As a Dutchman I am happy that we can teach you Brits (55 years later...) something...  ;D

British motorist must open the door with a safer 'Dutch reach'

Motorists in the United Kingdom are required to apply the so-called 'Dutch reach' when opening car doors from Saturday, BBC News reported on Wednesday. Anyone who refuses to open their car door with the hand furthest from it risks a fine of £1,000 (about €1,200).

The rule will be included in the Highway Code with rules for road users on Saturday. It is not known whether the rule also applies to car passengers.

The introduction of the Dutch reach has been going on for years. This grip makes it easier for motorists to get out of the car to look over their shoulders to see whether other road users, such as cyclists, are aproaching.

The British now enacting the rule has been applauded by activist Jeff Boulton. He lost his son in a road accident in 2016. "Like most people, we knew nothing about the Dutch reach until Sam was killed," he said, according to BBC News. "If we had changed the rules 55 years ago when the Dutch came up with this, Sam would still be alive."

Cycling UK is also happy with the amendment of the traffic regulations. The cyclists' organization says that although the British are not used to the Dutch reach, the method is easy to learn and can save lives.

Source: https://www.nu.nl/buitenland/6180319/britse-automobilist-moet-deur-gaan-openen-met-veiligere-nederlandse-greep.html?redirect=1
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 10:45:20 AM by Jazzik »
If nothing goes right, go left!

culzean

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2022, 10:33:11 AM »
Whether in a car,  on a motorbike or when I used to cycle I always give parked cars the maximum space I can when passing,  on a bike or motorbike you can give them the greatest distance,  and in a car although you often cannot give them as much room, if they do open the door in front of my car it will get ripped off ( and maybe their arm as well ) and dent front of my car - silly burgers should be more careful,  after all they have a door mirror on that side.......  As for Sam, he could have died next day by being hit by a bus... 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 10:35:24 AM by culzean »
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richardfrost

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2022, 10:39:35 AM »
Having seen someone nearly killed as a result of a door being opened in front of them, I always check over my shoulder before opening my door. Unfortunately, the twist put on my back by a Dutch reach means I can't do that specific action.

d2d4j

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2022, 10:51:23 AM »
Hi

I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement. It only adviced it might be a better option

We live on a very steep hill and cars regularly park on pavements, including police cars. Cyclist go faster then cars when traveling down the hill and most do not have lights…

Many thanks

John

richardfrost

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2022, 10:56:26 AM »
I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement.
It is not a legal requirement and you cannot be fined for not doing it. The wording says 'where it is possible to do so'. Anyone not doing it would be subject to consideration like any other non compulsory guidance.

I have actually read the changes and they are perfectly sensible. I have no issue with them. There are as many new instructions for cyclists as there are for drivers and motorbike riders. Will be interesting to see if cyclists will suddenly start obeying traffic lights.

ColinB

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 11:11:17 AM »
I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement.
It is not a legal requirement and you cannot be fined for not doing it.

Well, sort of. Using the specific Dutch Reach technique may not be legally enforceable, but the underlying law (Rule 239 of Highway Code) is that "you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic", which is punishable by a fine if you get it wrong. The Dutch Reach is simply a way of helping you to get it right and if you ignore that recommended technique then you'll be on a sticky wicket. And BTW, it applies to passengers as well as drivers, so we must educate our passengers as well ... remember the filmed incident when Chris Grayling (then Transport Secretary) doored a cyclist who was passing on the nearside of his stationary car?

PS As this applies to cars other than the Mk4 Jazz, wouldn't it be better here:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=14101.0
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 11:42:09 AM by ColinB »

Jazzik

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2022, 11:15:40 AM »
PS As this applies to cars other than the Mk4 Jazz, wouldn't it be better here:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=14101.0

You are absolutely right! I should have looked over my shoulder!
If nothing goes right, go left!

richardfrost

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2022, 11:42:27 AM »
Well, sort of.
I don't think we are disagreeing on the principle, but you have quoted only part of my statement, so I need to counter your 'sort of' comment. There is no 'sort of' about it. If the Dutch Reach was legally enforceable, the wording would say 'You MUST'. I'm only being picky because I am physically incapable of a Dutch Reach. In principle, I agree with the changes and certainly agree with checking behind, always.

aphybrid

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2022, 11:48:06 AM »
I personally see nothing new in these new guides in the highway code.

when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and curtesy to other road users and pedestrians.

Neil Ives

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2022, 12:15:48 PM »
I personally see nothing new in these new guides in the highway code.

when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and curtesy to other road users and pedestrians.
I agree.

When was it ever true that drivers were allowed to knock a road crossing pedestrian for six because motor vehicles have 'right of way'?

Giving the matter a second thunk;  the changes in the HC are probably more about legal/insurance liability than purely safety. People moan about 'Health and Safety' rules. Those rules are all about allocating legal responsibility following an accident or incident: 'He was told he shouldn't speed', when in truth his workload meant he had to speed to keep his job.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 12:18:51 PM by Neil Ives »
Neil Ives

culzean

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2022, 01:08:10 PM »

when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and courtesy to other road users and pedestrians.

That was in the days before BMW / Audi became so numerous on our roads ( can add Range Rovers to that list now as well - the first choice for a bell end and his lady).
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2022, 01:11:11 PM »
Well, sort of.
I don't think we are disagreeing on the principle, but you have quoted only part of my statement, so I need to counter your 'sort of' comment. There is no 'sort of' about it. If the Dutch Reach was legally enforceable, the wording would say 'You MUST'. I'm only being picky because I am physically incapable of a Dutch Reach. In principle, I agree with the changes and certainly agree with checking behind, always.

Agree, unless the Highway code says 'must' the meaning is 'please try to be a good boy and do it'....
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

WelshBeauty

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2022, 02:55:36 PM »
If it saves a cyclist from injury or death, then it's no bad thing.

But unfortunately motorist and concentration don't always go together. An old instructor of mine told me there is no such thing as an 'accident'.

VicW

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2022, 03:21:04 PM »
How do the police or a cyclist prove that you didn't us the 'Dutch Reach' technique if you hit a passing cyclist?
Cyclists are being advised to ride down the middle of the road now, I can see that being popular.

Vic.

culzean

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Re: Dutch reach
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2022, 03:21:39 PM »
If it saves a cyclist from injury or death, then it's no bad thing.

But unfortunately motorist and concentration don't always go together. An old instructor of mine told me there is no such thing as an 'accident'.

An 'accident' is normally when two bad decisions happen in the same place at the same time.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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