Author Topic: RDMS and winter  (Read 5843 times)

Kremmen

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2021, 11:28:27 AM »
With respect to Jazzik, in my opinion, replies like this are disrespectful to fellow members.

We know what the year is and we've mostly been driving long enough to know what's safe and what isn't.

This constant 'Honda have got it 100% correct and you are all wrong' is becoming tedious.

Please be respectful to fellow members.
Let's be careful out there!

Jazzik

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2021, 11:40:50 AM »
Then we would have "I am concerned about the safety of my Honda LFCWS (Low Flying Collision Warning System)! Every time I want to buzz my neighbour's house the system thinks I am going to crash my flying car and shouts 'Pull up!' at me all the time before yanking the wheel and making me nearly collide with a 747 coming in the other direction."

Stay on the right side of the road (I mean here, mainland Europe, the RIGHT side).

peteo48

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2021, 12:40:44 PM »
Just for the sake of balance I spent some time last evening looking up stats on whether these various systems make cars safer and, as a sceptic, the evidence, from a multitude of sources does indicate improvements in safety.

Just done a supermarket run, no orange steering wheels but the traffic was light. I'm moving towards a selective approach to the systems. Early last month we had a week in the lakes in our Mk3 - some of the narrow roads would have had the system going absolutely bonkers. If faced with these conditions, disabling the system is the obvious way forward. I feel the RDMS would lead to collisions in these circs or, at the very least, scratches and dents and, of course, insurance claims.

Jazzik

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2021, 12:41:57 PM »
My answers are not meant to be disrespectful, but I did expect some sense of humor from the reader.
'Honda have got it 100% correct and you are all wrong' I never claimed. I did say that RDMS can be annoying.
Also I wonder if anyone here has ever read the (online) owner`s manual https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/manuals-and-guides/honda-owners-manuals/_jcr_content/par1/textcolumnwithimagem_1653971839/textColumn/richtextdownload_90f/file.res/2021%20Jazz%20Owner%60s%20Manual.pdf
and specifically those pages regarding RDMS (478-486)
When I read a question like: "At what speed does RDMS activate or deactivate? Or is it 'on' permanently?" I just doubt that. Do you have RDMS set to "Early", "Normal" or "Delayed"? Or you don't know...?
For Expatman: read page 481...
Stay on the right side of the road (I mean here, mainland Europe, the RIGHT side).

culzean

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2021, 12:45:01 PM »
People will be blaming the safety systems for their accidents soon,  well officer I was driving along minding my own business when the car went over to other side of road.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2021, 12:51:35 PM »
With respect to Jazzik, in my opinion, replies like this are disrespectful to fellow members.

We know what the year is and we've mostly been driving long enough to know what's safe and what isn't.

This constant 'Honda have got it 100% correct and you are all wrong' is becoming tedious.

Please be respectful to fellow members.

Good chance that British taxpayers paid for the better roads in Poland   - of all EU countries they are the biggest beneficiary of EU payments  - to the tune of 11 billion Euro annually   https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/

Ever notice when you drive into Wales and Scotland how good their roads are compared to England, again a beneficiary of Englands generosity via the Barnett formula  :o

If a safety feature has to be used selectively and is a downside in certain conditions - these systems appear to be Beta at best,  and rushed into use before they are properly developed..

Notice how quiet it has gone on autonomous vehicles,  no big breakthroughs or massive developments,  and lots of companies have dropped out...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 01:01:57 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

richardfrost

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #81 on: October 22, 2021, 01:16:02 PM »
I'm all for tech, and have been an early adopter of hybrids.

However, the systems on the Jazz just aren't that good.

My trade-in was an ex-management Volvo with every safety extra box ticked. Lane departure, auto braking, HUD for following distance, etc.

In 15k miles I never once had any issue with the ACC, yet in the Jazz I've had loads of issues. Low speed follow with stop even worked perfectly in the Volvo during heavy stop/start traffic on the M25.

Lane departure in the Volvo never once tried to put me head on with another car on a perfectly wide enough road or warned me on a straight road that I was about to crash.

I think this is the key. I have all of these systems on my RAV4 and never an issue. I think ACC is not really for heavy traffic but the Toyota system allows you to just use regular Cruise Control if you prefer. I think Honda need to listen to the concerns expressed here and consider them alongside their own experience and their focus groups, and iterate to more understandable, reliable tech.

sportse

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2021, 01:49:56 PM »

I think this is the key. I have all of these systems on my RAV4 and never an issue. I think ACC is not really for heavy traffic but the Toyota system allows you to just use regular Cruise Control if you prefer. I think Honda need to listen to the concerns expressed here and consider them alongside their own experience and their focus groups, and iterate to more understandable, reliable tech.

Yes, I agree. On the owners groups for previous cars I've owned there are no posts about ACC or RDMS - the systems just work away in the background as they are supposed to.

Neil Ives

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2021, 01:55:57 PM »
Is the use of a camera rather than radar why the MK4 is not so good at analysing the situation?
Neil Ives

shufty

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2021, 02:08:23 PM »
...How violent a reaction are we talking?
I've experienced a small shimmy from the wheel and the orange hands image on the screen but as I was under 30mph and holding the wheel it wasn't much to write home about.

What should I be expecting if it really kicks in?!!  :o
MY22 Jazz EX - Sunlight W

richardfrost

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2021, 02:09:09 PM »
Is the use of a camera rather than radar why the MK4 is not so good at analysing the situation?

Could be. A 'radar' system would give very accurate measurements of vehicle distances, relative speeds etc., whereas the camera has to estimate, and presumably there is a much greater margin for error to allow for. The system on my car is based on the same ultrasonic sensors as used for parking I believe, but I think that is combined with camera data also.

sportse

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RDMS and winter
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2021, 02:45:57 PM »
...How violent a reaction are we talking?
I've experienced a small shimmy from the wheel and the orange hands image on the screen but as I was under 30mph and holding the wheel it wasn't much to write home about.

What should I be expecting if it really kicks in?!!  :o
At 70mph Iíve had a car shimmy that was the worst Iíve ever experienced - felt like the car would spin out of control if I didnít disable the system rapidly. Felt like it was over correcting one way than another and would have kept increasing until the car was out of control!

Perhaps the stability control would have saved things - just like the CMBS may have  saved the car from the ACC crashing it. Itís like one system doesnít work and another system has to stop it from causing issues.

In aeroplanes/spaceships (I was watching a program about the Space Shuttle recently) they sometimes get this control problem and can remove it through software tweaks.

The Problem with RDMS is that at any moment on a country road it could pull the steering and send you head on into oncoming traffic. Not even CMBS could save you from a last second head on steering movement from the RDMS at 80-120mph closing speed.

All on roads I have been driving for decades in a variety of cars, including brand new demonstrators from different manufacturers that have never done this.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 02:47:42 PM by sportse »

peteo48

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2021, 05:20:57 PM »
Looks like Honda have a problem here now people with experience of other brands have contributed to the thread. The main issue is over sensitivity it would appear and the wrench on the steering wheel I felt was not trivial, the car was attempting to steer me into danger (low speeds admittedly so light damage to the vehicle or vehicles being the most likely result).

Is this like the wretched Tyre Pressure Warning system? Something absolutely not fit for purpose on the 2 Mk3s I had.

I gather you can alter the sensitivity of these systems? It would almost certainly be beyond me so I may take the car to the dealership to get somebody to alter the setting on RDMS and CMS.

culzean

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2021, 05:33:03 PM »
My brothers Suzuki Vitara seems to use millimetre radar and camera functions with ACC, auto braking etc.  Maybe Honda made a mistake with using camera only ( but didn't Tesla decide to do everything with cameras rather than radar and lidar ? ).  He still has problems with the vehicle braking at odd times, especially on narrow roads - will ask him about his experience with the Suzuki lane keeping and other stuff, and if he has ever had a problem changing lanes on motorway etc.   He probably has had problems because he turns everything off every time he starts the Vitara...
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 05:44:34 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

ColinB

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2021, 06:03:36 PM »
Round here there are a lot of urban streets where the residents thoughtfully all park on one side of the road, leaving room for traffic to pass both ways on the remaining carriageway. But there's an increasing trend for people to just barrel through the centre and not leave space for oncoming vehicles; I'd been putting that down to inept drivers not knowing how wide their cars are, or maybe just a boorish "Get outta my way" attitude. But maybe they're actually wrestling with their version of RDMS which won't allow them to get close to the kerb or the line of parked cars.

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