Author Topic: RDMS and winter  (Read 17077 times)

Jazzik

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2021, 07:16:19 PM »
It’s interesting to see Dacia have abandoned the system and while their brand new cars may only get 3 stars they are very safe.

Only... for how long? Read this: https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/EN/Articles/StV/Roadtraffic/new-vehicle-safety-systems.html  and this: https://content.intland.com/blog/europe-on-the-move-safer-vehicles-on-eu-roads-from-2022
And the conclusion that Dacia's brand new vehicles are very safe I leave as your conclusion. I'm just curious what it's based on...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 07:22:06 PM by Jazzik »
If nothing goes right, go left!

peteo48

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2021, 08:00:08 PM »
Yes - it's coming and will get worse.

I'm still debating whether to disable at each start - 2 systems to disable - the collision mitigation system and the road departure mitigation system. I know it can be done but that's a lot of faffing about before you actually get going.

I might decide to live with it and try to win the battle of wills with the car. Fortunately it's only one situation on my regular journey.

Spoils my enjoyment of what I think is a superb little car but there's not much you can do as all manufacturers have this crap on all new models.

I might up my weight training so I can show the car who's boss ;D

sportse

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2021, 08:00:42 PM »
So called safety assist on the Honda Jazz gets NCAP 76% versus 42% Dacia Sandero, yet as I have to turn off RDMS before every trip it's not really comparable.

ACC and RDMS have both tried to kill me several times now before I stopped using them/disabled them - RDMS attempting to drive me head on into oncoming traffic on narrow roads, and ACC accelerating me towards the slowing car in front so violently that the CMBS activated, or ACC braking harshly for no reason.

LKAS upset the balance of the the car wobbling it dangerously at 70mph.

Personally I'd rate the systems as useless, apart from CMBS which at least hasn't had the false errors that the Volvo and Toyota Auris systems I've driven had. Volvo CMBS didn't like cars parked on the left verge, cyclists/pedestrians on the pavement or busy roundabouts.

It's probably a numbers game - if the systems cause a few accidents but save a few hundred/thousands of poor inattentive drivers from accidents then it's classed as a success.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 08:02:16 PM by sportse »

culzean

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2021, 08:26:35 PM »
I think the point of diminishing returns has been reached with all the 'hi tech safety systems' -  and a couple of our family with newer cars than we have switch them all off before driving.  The gigantic oil tanker that the EU is will plough on regardless,  they consider them a form of non-tarrif barrier to keep imported cars out, all the gadgets are doing is pushing the complexity and cost of vehicles up.  No wonder the price of older second hand cars without the gadgets are rising.   IMHO all the gadgets just make drivers less attentive, so a self fulfilling prophecy really.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jazzik

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2021, 11:59:25 PM »
I'm a bit confused after this:

It’s interesting to see Dacia have abandoned the system and while their brand new cars may only get 3 stars they are very safe.

and this:

So called safety assist on the Honda Jazz gets NCAP 76% versus 42% Dacia Sandero, yet as I have to turn off RDMS before every trip it's not really comparable.

Considering the Sandero Stepway "very safe" when you see the end result: not 3, but 2 stars. And comparing to the Jazz: look also at the other categories, not only Safety Assist. Very safe...??

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/dacia/sandero-stepway/42506
https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/honda/jazz/41212

Next to this... I kind of feel like I'm sitting among some "grumpy old men" :( here, philosophizing about how much better everything was in the past. "Long ago you didn't have to switch off RDMS". Oh... well... nowadays you also don't have to but you can choose to...  ;)
Sorry, I'm only 73 years old and it took me some (in fact very little) time to get used to the quirks of all those "Safety Assist" features. Some of these can be a bit annoying, but life-threatening..??

Come on guys! It's  2 0 2 1 !!!

If nothing goes right, go left!

Kremmen

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2021, 05:49:42 AM »
Would you not consider a car that steers you into the path of an oncoming car on a narrow lane life threatening ?

This isn't a single post about this issue but one of many, who have been driving for many years, know how wide their car is, can see how wide the road is and deliberately move towards the kerb/verge to allow a safe passing distance only for the car to try and steer them more into the road reducing the passing gap ?

If your driving style and experiences haven't encountered this issue then I accept that, don't turn off RDMS based on others experiences .

Please accept though those drivers who have experienced RDMS issues and respect their concerns.
Let's be careful out there !

Bristol_Crosstar

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #66 on: October 22, 2021, 08:53:25 AM »
I have got used to RDMS, it's a bit annoying sometimes but has helped once or twice when I may have lost concentration for one reason or another. I can't say it's ever put me in any danger. I drive a lot round country lanes but at the low speeds I drive in those situations RDMS hardly ever activates, it would only cause a collision if you're maybe driving too fast (which many people do on narrow roads), so long as you can stop within the visible road ahead you should be ok.

Expatman

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #67 on: October 22, 2021, 09:06:21 AM »
At what speed does RDMS activate or deactivate? Or is it 'on' permanently?

culzean

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #68 on: October 22, 2021, 09:18:13 AM »
I have got used to RDMS, it's a bit annoying sometimes but has helped once or twice when I may have lost concentration for one reason or another. I can't say it's ever put me in any danger. I drive a lot round country lanes but at the low speeds I drive in those situations RDMS hardly ever activates, it would only cause a collision if you're maybe driving too fast (which many people do on narrow roads), so long as you can stop within the visible road ahead you should be ok.

The speed limit on those narrow roads without even a white line in the centre ( less than 20 feet wide ) is 60mph, don't ask me why. A lot of the ones by us have a ridge of loose gravel and grass in the centre,  makes it tricky on a motorbike.  I agree people go too fast on narrow roads, most of which have a lot of bends in them,  and many do not take notice of passing places, and even though they have only just passed one will expect the other driver to reverse quite a long way.  I had one bloke in Cornwall freeze when he saw me and he stopped in the narrowest place, there were cars behind me who reversed back and filled a passing place up, he would not reverse - worst of all he had a passenger who said 'I was a van driver for 30 years mate,  plenty of room for you', I don't know if you are familiar with a Cornish 'hedge' a rough stone wall covered in plants, but my nearside mirror was up against the wall and my other mirror missed his by about an inch, we were on a slight bend as well  :(    I do remember saying to the ex-van driver passenger 'it there is plenty of room why don't I stay where I am and you can drive your mates car past mine, and I can claim on his insurance then ' - he didn't take me up on the offer and traffic was building up in both directions, I had only had the Civic a few months from new at that time.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kremmen

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #69 on: October 22, 2021, 09:19:01 AM »
My first major issue with RDMS was this, that I reported a while ago with associated image :

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=13654.msg106515#msg106515

That thin shiny road join sent the steering wobble into overdrive along with the orange steering wheel icon. Maybe because I was close to 70mph as I'd left the M25 and was joining the M40 so it considered that speed dangerous.
Let's be careful out there !

nowster

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #70 on: October 22, 2021, 09:38:31 AM »
Come on guys! It's  2 0 2 1 !!!

Indeed it is! Where's my flying car?  ;D

Neil Ives

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #71 on: October 22, 2021, 10:25:19 AM »
My wife and myself are in our 70's. I am broad minded about tech but my wife is not. If my wife has an unpleasant experience in our Jazz she is very likely to be put off driving it.

Tech should not need to be understood; it should do its thing invisibly; if the user needs to fiddle with it, it's not well designed.
Neil Ives

richardfrost

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #72 on: October 22, 2021, 10:45:45 AM »
Come on guys! It's  2 0 2 1 !!!

Indeed it is! Where's my flying car?  ;D

Then we would have "I am concerned about the safety of my Honda LFCWS (Low Flying Collision Warning System)! Every time I want to buzz my neighbour's house the system thinks I am going to crash my flying car and shouts 'Pull up!' at me all the time before yanking the wheel and making me nearly collide with a 747 coming in the other direction."

Jazzik

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #73 on: October 22, 2021, 11:04:30 AM »
The speed limit on those narrow roads without even a white line in the centre ( less than 20 feet wide ) is 60mph, don't ask me why. A lot of the ones by us have a ridge of loose gravel and grass in the centre,  makes it tricky on a motorbike.  I agree people go too fast on narrow roads, most of which have a lot of bends in them,  and many do not take notice of passing places, and even though they have only just passed one will expect the other driver to reverse quite a long way.

Already some time ago I wrote this:

Don't blame the equipment for the quality of your UK roads...
The question remains: is the equipment dangerous or are your roads dangerous?

If nothing goes right, go left!

sportse

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Re: RDMS and winter
« Reply #74 on: October 22, 2021, 11:25:27 AM »
I'm all for tech, and have been an early adopter of hybrids.

However, the systems on the Jazz just aren't that good.

My trade-in was an ex-management Volvo with every safety extra box ticked. Lane departure, auto braking, HUD for following distance, etc.

In 15k miles I never once had any issue with the ACC, yet in the Jazz I've had loads of issues. Low speed follow with stop even worked perfectly in the Volvo during heavy stop/start traffic on the M25.

Lane departure in the Volvo never once tried to put me head on with another car on a perfectly wide enough road or warned me on a straight road that I was about to crash.

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