Author Topic: Energy Prices  (Read 2455 times)

Geordielad

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: Jazz EX CVT 2018
Energy Prices
« on: October 09, 2021, 08:47:38 AM »
My fixed energy contract is ending. Currently about £1500 pa.
I’ve no intention of switching but looked at alternatives out of interest.
OVO energy won’t quote me and British Gas quoted £4300.
Be cheaper to burn fiver pound notes! :o

Derkie54

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 311
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2021 1.5i-MMD Jazz SR (Shining Grey)
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2021, 10:11:03 AM »
Wow !!!

Energy hikes
Petrol shortages
Food shortages
Medical backlogs

World beating issues
It will be alright in the end, if it's not alright then it's not the end !

Kremmen

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4573
  • Country: england
  • Civinfo interloper
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: MY22 Jazz EX
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2021, 10:41:30 AM »
BG are a ripoff.

When I needed a new gas boiler some years ago BG wanted just over £3.5k. Johnson & Starleys local agents did it for £1.6k
Let's be careful out there !

Neil Ives

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 955
  • Country: gb
  • The day the Internet went down
  • My Honda: Jazz Hybrid EX 2022
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2021, 11:20:34 AM »
The movement in the UK to encourage consumers to move to a cheaper provider must have something to do with the smaller companies going bust; their profit margins must have been wafer-thin to be competitive. When gas prices soared they couldn't survive.
I was considering getting cheaper energy but just never got round to it.
Neil Ives

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2021, 12:01:46 PM »
The movement in the UK to encourage consumers to move to a cheaper provider must have something to do with the smaller companies going bust; their profit margins must have been wafer-thin to be competitive. When gas prices soared they couldn't survive.
I was considering getting cheaper energy but just never got round to it.

Most of our electricity produced by gas and nuclear ( and nuclear power we buy from France because we are too stupid to build our own nuclear stations - the French stuff may soon be cut off due to fishing dispute ) because renewables are not performing, despite their cost. Looks like it will very soon be more expensive to run an EV than an ICE vehicle..

BG are a ripoff.

When I needed a new gas boiler some years ago BG wanted just over £3.5k. Johnson & Starleys local agents did it for £1.6k

As for tricky energy suppliers there is an ad in our local paper saying Eon will replace your gas boiler with an 'A' rated new one for 'only £3,800 'a saving of £2000 under the government warm homes scheme' - got a quote from Boxt for the latest Worcester- Bosch greenstar system boiler supplied and fitted for £2500 - some saving Huh, it is a disgrace that they can charge so much for fitting a boiler that only costs about £1000 to buy, and Eon will get it trade price, a lot cheaper.

The 'big 6' energy suppliers are rubbing their hands at smaller suppliers folding, they are once again planning for a monopoly cartel, where they can charge what they like.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 12:12:11 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kremmen

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4573
  • Country: england
  • Civinfo interloper
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: MY22 Jazz EX
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2021, 12:12:33 PM »
There are currently just shy of 33m cars in the UK.

Once the changeover begins and owners change where are they all going to charge ?
Let's be careful out there !

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2021, 12:13:40 PM »
My fixed energy contract is ending. Currently about £1500 pa.
I’ve no intention of switching but looked at alternatives out of interest.
OVO energy won’t quote me and British Gas quoted £4300.
Be cheaper to burn fiver pound notes! :o

Try Octopus.... we were with a number of suppliers,  but happiest with Octopus.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

embee

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 808
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2018 Jazz SE CVT
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2021, 12:53:38 PM »
Have you watched any of the Martin Lewis or current (sic) affair programmes discussing this issue?

The price cap has increased because it is based on a running 6 month average wholesale price, and gas price has been progressively increasing (and as Culzean says, between 45 and 50% of our UK electricity comes from burning gas). It has sky rocketed in the last month, and unless some staggering decrease comes in the next couple of months (extremely unlikely) then the next review in April 22 will result in another increase of probably at least 30% (maybe a lot more??).
No energy retailer will now offer any fixed price deal less than the expected or projected price in 2022, which will be a huge increase over what we've had in the last 12 months. The lowest prices you can get right now are the price-capped standard variable tariffs. Those prices will (should) last until April, but will then increase dramatically.

All the cheapo "suppliers" aren't suppliers, they are simply entrepreneurs, marketing agencies, they buy from A and sell to B. Unfortunately the price they are allowed to sell at (to B) is now capped at a lower value than they can buy from A, so they cannot survive. It was a business model built on sand, fine until the tide came in and washed the sand away.

The potential disaster comes when the big companies who inherit the bad deal customers from the failed businesses can no longer accommodate the inevitable losses which come from having to buy more energy than they had hedged for at the hugely inflated prices but are only allowed to charge the capped amount. The models were not based on widespread cheap business supplier failure. Then the big ones go to the govt and say we can no longer support this, what are you going to do about it?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 12:55:17 PM by embee »

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2021, 02:44:25 PM »
Just wait until the first cold snap this winter when a high pressure system is sitting over UK ( very little wind ) - when we are burning gas to produce electricity because everything else except Nuclear has gone AWOL.  Our Gas reserves are perilously low nowadays, we closed down the massive undersea storage sites and now run a fleet of gas tankers from halfway around the world, and pipelines from Norway.  We have become a 'just in time' consumer of gas - not a good situation, we are in the hands of foreign countries for our energy supplies,  and it is not just this government, we have had a string of stupid governments doing the damage.  We can no longer store gas and are burning it like there is no tomorrow to prop up renewables.

National grid has warned of 'constrained electricity supplies' this winter, double speak weasel words for 'we are in the sh1t, and there will be power outages'. We are like a third world country.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/09/21/lack-reserves-leaves-britain-facing-winter-gas-crisis/
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 03:18:39 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2021, 04:20:17 PM »
There are currently just shy of 33m cars in the UK.

Once the changeover begins and owners change where are they all going to charge ?

I've had several lengthy discussions with EV enthusiasts about this. Some of what they say makes sense. If EVs do most of their charging in the small hours when demands on the grid are minimal, then they will, effectively, mop up excess power especially from renewables which either produce not enough or too much.

Then I think back to the 33 million cars. About a third have no off road parking. They will be dependent on public chargers at work, supermarkets, restaurants, gyms and the like. They'll be doing this charging during the day.

Already there are moves to cut off the supply to domestic charge points at peak hours. All well and good but you could get round this with an extension lead and a 3 pin plug if you wanted to.

There is talk of vehicle to grid technology. You arrive home from work at 6 pm and plug your car in. The grid will draw power from your car during peak periods and "put it back" in the small hours. A lot of variables there I think.

I am not against EVs per se. I considered getting one but it would be re-assuring to know that somebody had answers to all these issues.

Kremmen

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4573
  • Country: england
  • Civinfo interloper
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: MY22 Jazz EX
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2021, 04:26:53 PM »
There are currently just shy of 33m cars in the UK.

Once the changeover begins and owners change where are they all going to charge ?

About a third have no off road parking.

I'd guess that's nearer to 2/3 ?

Wherever you go there are streets full of cars.
Let's be careful out there !

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2021, 04:42:29 PM »

There is talk of vehicle to grid technology. You arrive home from work at 6 pm and plug your car in. The grid will draw power from your car during peak periods and "put it back" in the small hours. A lot of variables there I think.


The vehicle to grid technology seen as a quick fix by politicians ( they specialise in quick fixes and not long term plans ) will just put more charge / discharge cycles on the vehicle battery and age it more quickly.  Batteries live and die by charge / discharge cycles.... and don't mention quick charging as that is also bad for batteries, batteries live longer if they are charged slowly.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1334
  • Country: scotland
  • My Honda: 2014 Honda Jazz ES Plus
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2021, 05:03:41 PM »

There is talk of vehicle to grid technology. You arrive home from work at 6 pm and plug your car in. The grid will draw power from your car during peak periods and "put it back" in the small hours. A lot of variables there I think.


The vehicle to grid technology seen as a quick fix by politicians ( they specialise in quick fixes and not long term plans ) will just put more charge / discharge cycles on the vehicle battery and age it more quickly.  Batteries live and die by charge / discharge cycles.... and don't mention quick charging as that is also bad for batteries, batteries live longer if they are charged slowly.

Not just by politicians:-

https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/electric-cars/vehicle-to-grid-technology
https://electricnation.org.uk/2020/09/02/the-future-of-vehicle-to-grid-ev-charging/#:~:text=The%20Future%20of%20Vehicle%20to%20Grid%20EV%20charging,able%20to%20use%20V2G%20until%20at%20least%202025

https://www.edfenergy.com/electric-cars/vehicle-g

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/new-study-v2g-may-not-degrade-ev-battery-life-it-might-actually-extend-it/

Edit added OVO link and charged link
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 05:44:40 PM by JimSh »

nowster

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 944
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2021 GR3 Jazz EX i-MMD in Midnight Blue
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2021, 06:35:06 PM »
There are currently just shy of 33m cars in the UK.

Once the changeover begins and owners change where are they all going to charge ?

I've had several lengthy discussions with EV enthusiasts about this. Some of what they say makes sense. If EVs do most of their charging in the small hours when demands on the grid are minimal, then they will, effectively, mop up excess power especially from renewables which either produce not enough or too much.

There's still not enough spare overnight capacity to provide charge for so many vehicles, especially if they're also being called on to supply the grid during the day.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Energy Prices
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2021, 06:38:37 PM »
There are currently just shy of 33m cars in the UK.

Once the changeover begins and owners change where are they all going to charge ?

I've had several lengthy discussions with EV enthusiasts about this. Some of what they say makes sense. If EVs do most of their charging in the small hours when demands on the grid are minimal, then they will, effectively, mop up excess power especially from renewables which either produce not enough or too much.

There's still not enough spare overnight capacity to provide charge for so many vehicles, especially if they're also being called on to supply the grid during the day.

Use solar to charge vehicles during the day, then suck out the power from the charged vehicles to charge other vehicles at night - like a charging ponzi scheme.  Oh,we do not get much from solar between October and March in UK, damn back to the drawing board.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Tags:
 

Back to top